MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Looking for PAIA help/parts/repair/anything?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author Looking for PAIA help/parts/repair/anything?
Feldt
Hi Muffwigglers

really like the noob thread, but i didnt find most of what i needed so i thought i would just ask for help.

I just acquired a PAIA modular w/ keyboard and honestly have no idea how to get sound out of it.. and it being pretty vintage, not sure if it even works. and now i see that not all of the I/Os are standard 1/8", so what other cables do i need?

it is also missing a 3? modules .. not to sure.. i can figure out the sound design part, but i dont know electrical wiring/testing/etc to get it up and going.

i live in berkeley, ca .. if you know of any mod heads, repair folks, resources, anything! please let me know.. oh also if you have extra PAIA modules like i said im missing some so im interested[/s]

thanks a bunch -Feldt
andrewF
Welcome Feldt
nice bit of vintage Paia
looks like you need some 4mm banana jacks

There is at least one Paia expert on this forum, no doubt he/they will appear shortly
Feldt
thanks andrew! thumbs up
scozbor
that looks awesome!
dslocum
I was NJ PAiA sales / support way back when and now regret getting rid of mine.

Those were actually test tip jacks. Really hard to find these days I think.

I see you also have the computer keyboard. Does that still work?

I have a small box of misc PAiA parts, but probably nothing worth much.

Let me know if I can offer any specific help once you get into troubleshooting this guy. Happy to help. PM me as well because I don't always get email updates from Muffs.
sduck
There is a fairly active dedicated paia forum over in yahoo groups. Here - http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/PAiASynth/
notimeforlove
Also, keep an eye out on ebay, there is a kit for making cables and a module or two up there now, just search for paia under musical instruments.
ynth
PAIA offers repairs.

Might as well ask the maker: http://www.paia.com/contact.asp
valis
Hahaha! Welcome to the dark side my friend. Awesome system! I loves me some vintage PAiA. I used to have a big mostly PAiA blog but have pulled most of it down. Still, I have links to all of the PAiA documentation, tutorials, and some other useful reading here:

http://obsolete-synthesis.blogspot.com/

Welcome to the forum!

Let me know if you need any help. It looks like you got some nice offers from other wigglers as well. (@ Doug, I love your stuff. Glad to see you on the board!)

Scott over at PAiA talk can be a lot of help as well.

http://www.paia.com/talk/

Anyway, I've done a lot of work with the PAiA 4700 and 2720 modules/systems. Here's my quickstart guide to the system.

- When I get a module the first things I do is recap it and check for errors. There were a lot of builders back in the day and not all of them had skills. As far the caps, some of them are pushing 30 years old. Isolate each module before testing it for the first time.

- Inspect the power module. How does it look? Again, recap it. Isolate the power module and test the voltages before firing up other modules. Another option is to get a new, clean, power supply. Many people run their systems happily on the oldschool power. The system does run quieter and smoother on a nice modern PSU.

- I have replaced my pin jacks with bananas. As you see, the 4700/2720 systems use pinjacks (which I kind of loathe). I use bananas elsewhere so this is a better option for me. The extra unused pin holes also leaves spaces for mods if you'd like that sort of thing.

- As mentioned John Simonton wrote some great tutorials that are worth looking through.

Again, these systems can be great, especially when tweaked a bit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I never quite mentioned it here because I didn't think anybody would care but I do vintage PAiA repairs, mods, and custom modules if anybody ever wants such things. I'm a simple DIY guy but I figured I'd put that out there for prosperity.

Here's a little box with some custom panels:

Sorry not a great pic.


Any my general, ever changing setup:
Feldt
holy shit! you guys are awesome.. im gonna take a second to check out the resources posted here before i start asking more questions.. thank you thank you thank you
f
Feldt
i found a lot of place that sell banana cables but wondering if there is a best source for ones designed more for modular synths.. ?

@ dslocum : you said "Those were actually test tip jacks. Really hard to find these days I think. " what are you referring to? does my modular use an even different cable/tip than tt's or banana?
valis
Feldt wrote:
i found a lot of place that sell banana cables but wondering if there is a best source for ones designed more for modular synths.. ?

@ dslocum : you said "Those were actually test tip jacks. Really hard to find these days I think. " what are you referring to? does my modular use an even different cable/tip than tt's or banana?


If you look at Mouser.com part number
530-105-0302-1

This is a tip plug. Mouser still stocks them. This is what your modular is using. Truth be told though, you can cram some wire in those jacks and make it work.

I happen to like banana jacks. Here's what I use. It's the same size and fits nicely on those holes

Mouser part number:
530-108-0903-1

The plug of a banana jack is quite a bit bigger than a tip plug but the jack sizes are the same. I happen to like bananas because they can be stacked and I use them on my other projects. I don't want to confuse you further but if you're interested this link from my old blog may be worth a read.

Tips V. Bananas
valis
A junkie's life:





BTW I threw a few more old posts up which may be helpful

http://obsolete-synthesis.blogspot.com/
Feldt
@ valis

wow! haha junkie life.. bucket o' crack rock

thanks for the info.. checking it out now smile
Feldt
dslocum wrote:

I see you also have the computer keyboard. Does that still work?

I have a small box of misc PAiA parts, but probably nothing worth much.

Let me know if I can offer any specific help once you get into troubleshooting this guy. Happy to help. PM me as well because I don't always get email updates from Muffs.


Dont know if that computer keyboard works.. really want it to tho!!
the box and over all body are is great shape but its the electrical that counts

definatly will take you up on parts and advice shortly thank you !!
Feldt
So i wanted topost a list of the moduals i already have in my PAIA to see what might be missing, or what can be added, and maybe see if a missing module is the answer to the no sound thingy

the list as follows:
VCO
INVERTER BUFFER
CONTROL OSCILLATOR
ENVELOPE GENERATOR (2)
VCF
ENVELOPE FOLLOWER
EQUALLY TAMPERED D/A CONVERTER
POWER SUPPLY
WING (2)
BALANCED MODULATOR
VCA

WOULD LOVE ANY THOUGHTS. oops left the caps on,, is his enough to get it going?
valis
Feldt wrote:
is his enough to get it going?


Yup. That's not a bad little starter system and will be enough to get you going. The inverter/buffer is good for external signals in case your one VCO gets lonely. A mixer would do you some good but you can do that off-board. Take advantage of the mults for a advanced use.

The balanced modulator is also a VCA which is why you have two envelope generators.

As far as missing modules, they were all DIY originally and ordered one at a time so none are really "missing." Sorry to keep referring you to my site but the near-complete list of modules is here:

http://obsolete-synthesis.blogspot.com/2010/11/paia-documentation.html

I'm curious to see how the A/D converter and keyboard work. I've never actually used that model keyboard (that was a early-mid eighties version if I'm not mistaken).
valis
Again, if I'm not mistaken the panel in the left cabinet in the bottom left corner (next to where the keyboard is plugging into) is a 8781 QUASH, or Quad Addressable Sample and Hold. Am I correct about that? I've never actually played with one but they were a real cool concept. It was a digital sample and hold with four outputs. I'd be curious to see how that
worked.

http://www.paia.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=176

I do find it odd that you have a 4700 system (a later one at that) but are using the 2720 power supply. There's probably a story there.
Mongo1
Hi - Welcome to Paia land. Getting an old system restored can be a lot of work, but it's definitely worth it.

One thing I'd suggest you do is buy a big ol' bag of electrolytic caps and just replace all of them on the boards. It's pretty much inevitable.

Gary
Feldt
@valis:

valis wrote:
Again, if I'm not mistaken the panel in the left cabinet in the bottom left corner (next to where the keyboard is plugging into) is a 8781 QUASH, or Quad Addressable Sample and Hold. Am I correct about that?


it is yes.. but as ii still havent played it im not sure how the keyboard works. but thats interesting about the sample and hold..



valis wrote:
I do find it odd that you have a 4700 system (a later one at that) but are using the 2720 power supply. There's probably a story there.


id be curious about the power supply and why that is.. i kow so little about this synth that all this info is new but i will be checking into all of it..

thanks man thumbs up
valis
Mongo1 wrote:

One thing I'd suggest you do is buy a big ol' bag of electrolytic caps and just replace all of them on the boards. It's pretty much inevitable.


It is. Fortunately, PAiA in the quest to keep their general parts counts down only ever used four or five electrolytic values. 1uf, 2.2uf, 10uf, and occasionally 100uf. That's pretty much it.

Out of curiosity what's the story of your system? Did you buy it? Was it handed down to you?

Best of luck with your projects. Go buy a multimeter if you haven't already.
Feldt
[quote="valis"]
Mongo1 wrote:

Out of curiosity what's the story of your system? Did you buy it? Was it handed down to you?


i really love vintage and also i am very interested in modular so when i saw it on craigslist i jumped on it.. it was bought in this condition from one of those "electronics by the pound" places in LA.. got it for 400$.. did i get taken?? is that a good deal?
valis
Feldt wrote:
got it for 400$.. did i get taken?? is that a good deal?


Nope. You didn't get taken. Especially considering you got the keyboard. It's amazing how much these systems have been going up in price. I've just started seeing them break $1000 on ebay for a full system with keyboard, which is pretty amazing.

If you're interested in DIY and modular synthesis this will be a fun first system. If you're not into DIY it might be a bit of a headache to get going. Best of luck.
Feldt
@valis yes I am interested in DIY ,, not old enough to be into 64 camero s n stuff so I see it as a restoration project of sorts
kindredlost
Go read the manuals (original) posted by Scott.

http://www.paia.com/talk/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=916269f6a0d40650397381d a72c9a422

I still have all these along with my P4700J system which is similar to the one you bought. It is in need of some maintenance though.

My keyboard controller has a 8700 computer on it and I think that may be required to take full use of the QuASH module. The 8781 QuASH needs a clock from the computer to do it's addressing (I believe).

I have quite a few test pin cable jacks if you want a few. PM me.

MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Page 1 of 2
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group