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Sorting out how the STG Time Modules work if no DIN24 sync
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Author Sorting out how the STG Time Modules work if no DIN24 sync
wsy
I don't have any DIN24 sync equipment in my kitchen tabl... er, studio, so I'm a
little at a loss how to use the STG time modules.

Near as I can figure it, the Shift Manager can read the state and send "reset to 1"
to up to three mini-stores (either voltage - 8 steps or trigger, with 16 steps).

But- without DIN24, I can't see how the quarter/eighth/sixteenth note switches
can do anything. So- without DIN24 - do the note length switches do anything?

Nor can I figure out how the Shift Manager can control the number of stages
in the Trigger Store - the knob goes 1...8 but there are 16 stages in a trigger
store (or does the number of stages get doubled, so "1" on the Shift Manger
indicate 2 stages in the Trigger Store)?

That would sort-of make sense because then you could clock the Trigger
Store at twice the Voltage Store speed, and thereby create multiple turn-on
edges to trigger ADSRs (or not- turn on multiple successive switches and
you'd get a note that had more duration, without an ADSR retrigger).

But that doesn't seem to happen either, watching the one Youtube demo - the
Trigger Store clocks at the same speed as the Voltage Stores.

Help???

- Bill
Just me
The tms clocks at the same speed as the vms. If you notice the yellow leds, there are 2 stages of 8 steps. The division switches do nothing without the time buffer. You can modify the time buffer to clock from an external signal other than SYNC24. This is a good option as then the dividees and the shift managers work to full effect. (And is how I run mine most of the time.
some info in this thread.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47126&highlight=buff er
wsy
Just me wrote:
The tms clocks at the same speed as the vms. If you notice the yellow leds, there are 2 stages of 8 steps. The division switches do nothing without the time buffer. You can modify the time buffer to clock from an external signal other than SYNC24. This is a good option as then the dividees and the shift managers work to full effect. (And is how I run mine most of the time.
some info in this thread.
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47126&highlight=buff er


OK, got that then! The Time Buffer converts sync24 into something the VS, TS, and
Shift Managers can divide down to quarter/eighth/sixteenth notes with the division
switches, and adding reset/clock to a Time Buffer is just a matter of drilling.
That makes sense (and if I had one, I'd add a 555 oscillator normallled to clocking
in and a 3-way switch to run/stop/remote.

But it still leaves the mystery of how you set the run length of a Trigger Store (16
switches long) with the Shift Manager (the switch only goes up to 8).

Anybody have a TS/SM setup who can reveal this information?

(a TB/SM/VS/VS/TS is looking better and better as a sequencer option. Just 5 MU
wide, and lots of independence!). I can still use the Electribe for baseline, but
Electribes don't have Sync24 out (they do have MIDI out- one monophonic line, on
channel 1, no nuthin besides note-on and note-off. Saying an Electribe MIDI
implementation is "primitive" insults protozoans and fungi everywhere).

- Bill
Just me
The tms will always run a then b. So if the sm is at 2, then the tms will step 1-2 a then 1-2 b. If it is set to 5 then it will be 1-5a then 1-5b .
Just me
If you don't want the sides to be different, set the switches the same.
btw, I run 1 tb, 2 sm, 2 tms and 4 vms. Very flexible.
wsy
Just me wrote:
If you don't want the sides to be different, set the switches the same.
btw, I run 1 tb, 2 sm, 2 tms and 4 vms. Very flexible.


Does "reset" always switch to side "A"?

(and yes, I can see the flexibility. You *do* realize that this makes the ordering
decision MUCH harder, don't you? hmmm.....
Just me
Removing and reasserting the run signal will reset all modules to stage one and the tms to a also.
I won't even mention the cool thing i 'discovered' a few weeks ago about using 2 tms and an active reversing attenuator...
suitandtieguy
thanks for answering these questions well. the new android update makes it hard for me to type in the forum on my phone, so i have to wait till i get back to the studio.

something to help visualise the Trigger Mini-Store's operation is to consider it as 2 8-stage trigger sequencers with an integrated sequential switch.
wsy
I saw the thread with the modded Time Buffer for 1/4" 24 pulse-per-quarter-note
inputs. This would be taking that to the next level - using an Arduino as a "local
oscillator" in the Time Buffer would add a whole lot of flexibility for $29 retail. :-)
You could add swing. You could add polyrhythmic swing. You could.... smile

Another question: can you "buss parallel" a voltage store and a trigger store
so that they take up one slot on the Shift Manager? (or even just slave a voltage
Store to another Voltage Store or a Trigger Store to a Voltage Store so that
they both reset to S0 at the same time?

- Bill
wsy
Just one more thing:

Is there any way in Time Buffer-land to get a voltage out when a particular state
has been reached - or trigger to a particular state *other* than state 1?

- Bill
wsy
How fast can the DIN24 signal go and have the Shift Manger / Time Buffer
not get confused? I'm thinking "What happens if I hit them with 12 KHz
square waves?"

- Bill
suitandtieguy
wsy wrote:
I saw the thread with the modded Time Buffer for 1/4" 24 pulse-per-quarter-note inputs.


that is an option i offer, yes, kind of like "animal style" on the In-N-Out "secret menu".

wsy wrote:
Another question: can you "buss parallel" a voltage store and a trigger store so that they take up one slot on the Shift Manager?


no.

wsy wrote:
(or even just slave a voltage Store to another Voltage Store or a Trigger Store to a Voltage Store so that
they both reset to S0 at the same time?


yes. stage one output of one to stage one input of the next. _any_time_ the sequencer is at stage one (not stage zero, i should point out ... stage zero is imaginary and a concept only in the microcode source) the Mini-Store will output a pulse at the stage one output.

when it's getting clock bus sync, the output should be a 50 percent duty cycle. when it's under "shift input" control the duty cycle will match the shift input pulse duty.

wsy wrote:
Is there any way in Time Buffer-land to get a voltage out when a particular state has been reached - or trigger to a particular state *other* than state 1?


yes, the Trigger Mini-Store!

the reason there is only a stage one output is that a proper sequencer should only require a pulse at stage one to syncronise properly.

unfortunately many sequencers don't have an optimal behaviour, they have "reset" inputs that actually go to stage zero or they have stage one inputs that confuse the fuck out of the shift input and make the sequencer advance to stage two when they get a ping at both inputs.

if everyone who made sequencers followed the behaviour of my sequencers, they'd all play nice with one another. this isn't an ego-trip ... if you think about it really hard you'll see there's no other way for them to to behave and make any sense.

remember that Tangerine Dream essentially had their 960s gutted to get them to sync together properly, and then had their own sequencing network built around those modifications.

i don't have access to everything but i'd like to see a table of which sequencers do what under certain sync-related behaviour situations, so people know how to deal with issues ahead of time. that would require more research than i can afford to do, which kind of sucks.

for example, i love the shit out of my Synthesizers.com Q960 but to get it to reset every stage one of the Trigger Mini-Store i dedicate to it, i have to always have stage one on the Mini-Store "off", then run the Mini-Store output to the shift input of the 960, then run the stage one output into the stage one input of the Q960. then i have actually have an Active Multiples panel dedicated to this, because i have to mult these outputs from my modules into not just the Q960 inputs but then a 2-way summing mixer so i can get that stage one trigger along with the rest of my triggers! that's silly!

wsy wrote:
How fast can the DIN24 signal go and have the Shift Manger / Time Buffer
not get confused? I'm thinking "What happens if I hit them with 12 KHz
square waves?"


12Khz is too high, but they do work up to 4Khz. if you want to use a sequencer as an audio-rate digital oscillator, you should check out the Ian Fritz Double Deka VCO. it's pretty incredible.

btw, the confusion happens in the Mini-Store. they have the microcontrollers that make everything happen. the Shift Manager is essentially switches and jacks with cables coming out of it and the Time Buffer is literally just an electronic 8-channel buffer/conditioner.
wsy
suitandtieguy wrote:


12Khz is too high, but they do work up to 4Khz. if you want to use a sequencer as an audio-rate digital oscillator, you should check out the Ian Fritz Double Deka VCO. it's pretty incredible.

btw, the confusion happens in the Mini-Store. they have the microcontrollers that make everything happen. the Shift Manager is essentially switches and jacks with cables coming out of it and the Time Buffer is literally just an electronic 8-channel buffer/conditioner.


Too bad. Well, not horribly too bad, because what I am trying to puzzle out is how to
give the system the "set" and "state" outputs that appear in the bottom line of a
Q960, or in the input and output expanders of the Moon 569.

The modular software I use (Alsa Modular) just got an eight-state sequencer with input
and output state access, and I lurve it.

- Bill
suitandtieguy
Can you explain what the end result you're lookin for is, what do you want to make the sequencers do?
wsy
suitandtieguy wrote:
Can you explain what the end result you're lookin for is, what do you want to make the sequencers do?


Well, here's an example:

You run an eight-note measure, but every so often an LFO kicks and sets the current
note to note 5. A slower LFO occasionally sets the current note to note 2. And then
you have a random that occasionally sets the current note to note 7.

And that's what runs. Trust me, it sounds OK if you have good voicing behind it.

Or - I have seven EGs, and each one is triggered on a different note of an eight-note
measure.

Or even worse (yes I have done this) - an EG for each state, triggered on different
notes of an eight-note measure - and stepping forward is controlled by one LFO and
stepping backward is controlled by another. Tune it right and it starts to sound like
Bach. Well, sorta like Bach; Crab Canon in particular. seriously, i just don't get it

So that's why I want access to each state as an independent gate-out, and the ability
to "set" to a particular state. If I can do a "reset to 1" and then pulse at 24 PPQN at
4 KHz, then I can almost do that (setting to state 8 would take 48 milliseconds, which
is kinda slow but hey, maybe doable). Gate outs - maybe a secret-menu option on
a trigger store to lead each of the LED outs to a 1/4" jack, with a switch for 8-state
versus 16-state operation.

Does that make sense?

- Bill
Mitchk1989
wait, what is animal style and in-n-out, and why do they have a 'secret menu'?

Very confused Canadian here.
EMwhite
Obscure reference (depending on where you are from or where you have been) to In n' Out Burger, a mid-west and west coast burger joint.

As an east coaster, I've been to three of them and left not only satisfied (yes donnie) but with the paper hat and complimentary bumper stickers.

Wharf area in SF
Maryland Blvd in Vegas
off 101 in Marin Cty, CA

Fresh fries made from actual potato peeled right in front on your eyes. Imagine that. No secret handshake required. Get the Double-double.
suitandtieguy
In-N-Out is a burger-and-fries chain in California, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas. their published menu is very simple, just burgers and fries and soda and shakes, but there are quite a few options you can request.

it's also good to know this stuff before you even walk into one. because their fries are fresh-cut and they don't blanch them first, you actually kind of have to order them well-done IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-N-Out_Burger

http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2011/03/the-in-n-out-survival-guid e-we-ate-every-single-item-on-the-secret-menu.html

In-N-Out is a nice chain but the best burger i had on my NAMM trip was in Scottsdale AZ at Diablo Burger.

EDIT: i took my time typing this apparently. EMwhite beat me to it!
diophantine
Two hamburgers. Animal style, please.

Best fast-food burgers! And they taste fresh.

I'd never heard of the ordering the fries well-done. I rarely get fries (anywhere), but, I'll have to do that next time.

I don't want to get off-topic (hihi), but I'm curious if the time buffer uses the +5V rail? Whenever I get one (hopefully later this year!) I'd like to add a switch (or a switching jack) to send start/stop a + voltage, and just wondering how messy this would be.
suitandtieguy
yeah the Time Buffer and Mini-Stores actually only use the 5 volt rail.
mono-poly
http://www.rv0.be/sudc.html

That's good to sync to your daw.
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