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KOMA KOMMANDER update
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> KOMA Elektronik  
Author KOMA KOMMANDER update
tektoktiktak
Next week, during Musikmesse, the public has his first chance to play with our new product the KOMMANDER!







Kommand & Konquer

The KOMMANDER is a handheld dual infrared X-Y motion controller that makes controlling your instruments intuitive and fun. The device measures the distance to your hand or any other surface and sends out corresponding CV signals between 0 and 8 volts. The closer you have your hand to the KOMMANDER, the higher the output voltage. This will allow you to create weird synth sounds, trigger a drum machine, control effect pedals or any other instrument that is capable of receiving CV signals.

Because of our innovative circuit design there is no interference from sunlight or stage light, so the musician can use it wherever she or he wants. Just plug the KOMMANDER into your Eurorack Modular System, Buchla, Moog, Roland or any other synthesizer and create.

SPECS:

* 4 CV outputs
- 2 x CV (0-8 volts)
- 2 x Gate Out (adjustable threshold)

* 2 IR sensors with optical crosstalk
* Sensing range trimmer on the inside
* 9V DC input
* Great Black Metal design!

Availability and pricing:

The KOMMANDER will be available at http://www.koma-elektronik.com or at KOMA Elektronik Dealers worldwide from April 2012 for approximately 59.00 EUR / 75.00 USD (incl. VAT).

Till the last moment we have to say the following:
Technical specifications and pricing are still subject to change as this product is still under development.

For what would you guys use the KOMMANDER?
therk
Looks like loads of fun - great price too!
hiawog
koma koma koma koma koma chameleon
DanielW
nanners nanners nanners nanners w00t
sensanalog
This looks like so much fun. I could see myself laughing at my system while playing this. Now, that's what I call rewarding. w00t w00t
dan_p
Gate out!

I had no idea you guys were putting gate as well as CV on this thing, i was seriously stoked about the release of this, now with gate out its gone next level.

thumbs up

I have my first patch idea in mind, its going to be great!
dan_k
These look awesome, and at a great price!
Bricks
Visually stunning! Congrats!
tektoktiktak
When we were at NAMM, we shot a little clip of the KOMMANDER:



We just uploaded it so you have an impression, more extensive demo's come soon!
osterchrisi
hiawog wrote:
koma koma koma koma koma chameleon

Haha, yeah! You wouldn't believe how many times a sing that during a week hihi
z3r01
Can't wait to get my hands on this (pun intended razz ), can imagine the patches and hours of fun I'll get out of this. thumbs up
DanielW
I asked earlier, would you be able to make a kustom Kommander (obscure Kenneth Anger reference) with banana jacks and an extra grounding outlet?
dan_p
.^ It's peanut butter jelly time!
osterchrisi
DanielW wrote:
I asked earlier, would you be able to make a kustom Kommander (obscure Kenneth Anger reference) with banana jacks and an extra grounding outlet?

I'm not 100% sure, I would have to check available banana jacks. The 3.5mm jacks on the Kommander have a super small footprint but are of amazing quality, that's why I was able to fit four of them into the Kommander and used them. Since they are PCB mount as well it would be pretty tricky to fit 4 banana jacks in the same space as the 4 3.5mm jacks. Maybe it would be possible with the small bananas (what was it again, 2.6mm?)... Right now I'm putting together all the hardware necessary for the first production run, so as soon as I see that everything works out spacewise I could check exactly on how a banana jack Kommander would be possible.

To sum that up: I can't tell you right now but I'll keep it in my head and as soon as I have enough information gathered I will let you know in this thread. I have to do some research first. That's everything I can do for now!
nrdvrgr
Count me in for a banana version also if it happens!
Matos
Black metal design! Full of awesome! I'm totally snagging one. tektoktiktak
Thanks for the video. What was that mpc looking thing in the case at the far right bottom?
weinglas
Me wanna some banana, too!
weinglas
weinglas wrote:
Me wanna some banana, too!


But no mini bananas!
rechner7
tektoktiktak wrote:

* 4 CV outputs
- 2 x CV (0-8 volts)
- 2 x Gate Out (adjustable threshold)

* 2 IR sensors with optical crosstalk
* Sensing range trimmer on the inside


really nice concept, thanks a lot! i think for the ultimate live experience one could add some additional functions. in my opinion it would be very appreciable if some features could be included directly in the pedal design (maybe in a bigger version of the kommander).
i'd love to see following features included in the 'big brother':

* variable gate threshold for each unit (please no internal trim)
* slew with separated rise and fall times for each unit
* switch for selecting between 'track and hold', 'off/track', 'sample and hold'. the t&h or s&h is triggered by the opposite unit mutually
* t&h and s&h design with very slow voltage drift-times (i.e. a held voltage should not drop without a resampling)

this concept would allow freezings of the cv and a lots of interactions of both kommander units. should be a really performably controller for every cv-gate synth... i would definitely buy such a unit! grin

cheers,
r7
DanielW
rechner7 wrote:
tektoktiktak wrote:

* 4 CV outputs
- 2 x CV (0-8 volts)
- 2 x Gate Out (adjustable threshold)

* 2 IR sensors with optical crosstalk
* Sensing range trimmer on the inside


really nice concept, thanks a lot! i think for the ultimate live experience one could add some additional functions. in my opinion it would be very appreciable if some features could be included directly in the pedal design (maybe in a bigger version of the kommander).
i'd love to see following features included in the 'big brother':

* variable gate threshold for each unit (please no internal trim)
* slew with separated rise and fall times for each unit
* switch for selecting between 'track and hold', 'off/track', 'sample and hold'. the t&h or s&h is triggered by the opposite unit mutually
* t&h and s&h design with very slow voltage drift-times (i.e. a held voltage should not drop without a resampling)

this concept would allow freezings of the cv and a lots of interactions of both kommander units. should be a really performably controller for every cv-gate synth... i would definitely buy such a unit! grin

cheers,
r7


Most of that could be done with modules I'm sure . Better keep the device simple and small.
rechner7
exactly - but it's question of personal taste: i prefer more autonomic devices with a higher integration of functionality as seen in buchla systems. in the case of the kommander, the unit would especially gain a lot of perfomability&flexibility in combination with *all* kind of cv/gate synths beyond the euro-world (bearing in mind that one could use the kommander while the modular is not at one's fingertips). beside this aspect, one would additionally safe a fair amount of modular periphery (sport modulator, dual bissel etc pp)...
richard
rechner7 wrote:
tektoktiktak wrote:

* 4 CV outputs
- 2 x CV (0-8 volts)
- 2 x Gate Out (adjustable threshold)

* 2 IR sensors with optical crosstalk
* Sensing range trimmer on the inside


really nice concept, thanks a lot! i think for the ultimate live experience one could add some additional functions. in my opinion it would be very appreciable if some features could be included directly in the pedal design (maybe in a bigger version of the kommander).
i'd love to see following features included in the 'big brother':

* variable gate threshold for each unit (please no internal trim)
* slew with separated rise and fall times for each unit
* switch for selecting between 'track and hold', 'off/track', 'sample and hold'. the t&h or s&h is triggered by the opposite unit mutually
* t&h and s&h design with very slow voltage drift-times (i.e. a held voltage should not drop without a resampling)

this concept would allow freezings of the cv and a lots of interactions of both kommander units. should be a really performably controller for every cv-gate synth... i would definitely buy such a unit! grin

cheers,
r7


I'd be into all this in a future Uber Kommander too. No doubt I'll buy a Kommander anyway but to be really useful these kind of things need a bunch of other things to control the output so the idea of building that all in from the start is very practical and appealing
osterchrisi
richard wrote:
rechner7 wrote:
tektoktiktak wrote:

* 4 CV outputs
- 2 x CV (0-8 volts)
- 2 x Gate Out (adjustable threshold)

* 2 IR sensors with optical crosstalk
* Sensing range trimmer on the inside


really nice concept, thanks a lot! i think for the ultimate live experience one could add some additional functions. in my opinion it would be very appreciable if some features could be included directly in the pedal design (maybe in a bigger version of the kommander).
i'd love to see following features included in the 'big brother':

* variable gate threshold for each unit (please no internal trim)
* slew with separated rise and fall times for each unit
* switch for selecting between 'track and hold', 'off/track', 'sample and hold'. the t&h or s&h is triggered by the opposite unit mutually
* t&h and s&h design with very slow voltage drift-times (i.e. a held voltage should not drop without a resampling)

this concept would allow freezings of the cv and a lots of interactions of both kommander units. should be a really performably controller for every cv-gate synth... i would definitely buy such a unit! grin

cheers,
r7


I'd be into all this in a future Uber Kommander too. No doubt I'll buy a Kommander anyway but to be really useful these kind of things need a bunch of other things to control the output so the idea of building that all in from the start is very practical and appealing


Yeah, stuff like that is definitely the dilemma I see myself everytime when designing new tools. It's always a compromise between features, usability and mechanical construction - at the very least.
The Kommander for now should be a ready-to-use, plug'n'play device that everyone understands in less than a minute and that makes a lot of fun for the little price. For the first run I believe we will make that happen.

Btw: Tomorrow the first printed and drilled enclosures as well as the pre-production PCBs will come in so if we are lucky, it's not long anymore!! applause
rechner7
thx - i am really looking forward the kommander, it's a small and nifty tool. i just wanted to give some ideas for further koma-tools - i hope there are many of them in future!

does the kommander run with the (quasi-)standard 9v boss style connector?
osterchrisi
rechner7 wrote:
thx - i am really looking forward the kommander, it's a small and nifty tool. i just wanted to give some ideas for further koma-tools - i hope there are many of them in future!

does the kommander run with the (quasi-)standard 9v boss style connector?

Ideas and suggestions are always welcome!
Plus: Yes, the Kommander runs on the standard 9V boss style adapter, you only have to provide at least 500mA because those infrared LEDs eat a looooot of current - some of them you can drive with up to 150mA! woah
rechner7
500mA should be no problem. a new 9v psu provides approx 1.5A. still enough for a couple of further pedals. i appreciate that the kommander runs on 9v. this is compared to a power supply via the euro-bus much cheaper and is especially for a small backpack-live-setup of advantage (9V psu is rather standard..). i think that i should make my preorder soon.. This is fun!
subterryanean
This looks insanely useful! I like that it's really simple and stripped down, but being a control freak I'd love to see an expanded version, I really dig on the track/hold and slew ideas.
hank
I can't believe noone has taken the opportunity to use the emoticon! Looks like fun, esp. with the gate outputs.
tektoktiktak
Good news!

Due to the large demand, we are taking pre-orders for the KOMMANDER, to make sure we can serve all who want to have them fast.

Price:
59 EUR incl VAT for EU customers
for international customers

To pre-order, go here:
http://www.koma-elektronik.com/kommander/
z3r01
...aaand pre-ordered! Thanks! thumbs up
bunkdata
Just checking to see if anyone has received their preorders yet. Can't wait for mine! w00t
tektoktiktak
Just a quick update: all work on development is finished, units are ready for production, at this moment we are waiting for the enclosures, but they are due to come in in 12 days... After that assembly will start!

Thanks to all for the pre-orders, we are just as thrilled as you are!

thumbs up
z3r01
Great to hear that! Also, I wanna add, the new website design is nice too! thumbs up
jw112
I Just Pre-Ordered!
bunkdata
Looks like pre-orders are shipping now! w00t SlayerBadger! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
Robert Moob


SlayerBadger!
Monobass
This is really cool.. And what a price.
myrnaloy
mine has shipped. very exciting!
nrdvrgr
I am thinking about connecting this to the expression pedal input of my Eventide Space... Must work, right?
osterchrisi
nrdvrgr wrote:
I am thinking about connecting this to the expression pedal input of my Eventide Space... Must work, right?

From what I am able to get out of the Eventide Space User Manual, the Expression Pedal input can accept CVs up to +3V, so basically it should be possible to use the Kommander with the Space if you make sure your trimmer setting for the CV outputs does not exceed +3V - on a radom Kommander that I took from the workbench that is around 10.30 o clock. You can measure that with a multimeter for example. The Gate outputs are always on +8V so you better not use those.

What is not really clear from the Manual is how well the Space will manage to get it's internal +3V on the ring of the expression pedal cable shorted to ground but since it says that the device is able to accept CV inputs ("The Expression Pedal input supports control voltage inputs from 0V to 3V") I guess it's fine.

Maybe an e-mail to the manufacturer would help too. From my side it seems possible. Let me know if it works out!
Monobass
I just snapped and ordered one from Schneiders. I can eat rice this week instead.
artisokka
Ordered one as well. w00t
sundog
Mine arrived today w00t

Kommander + JAG = Hug JAG likes 0-10v so I am scaling up the KK CVs using Maths channels 2&3.

The jacks are very close together...I need to use skinny Doepfer cables if using both CV and gate on the same channel.

But overall I am very impressed especially for
Monobass
sundog wrote:
Mine arrived today w00t

Kommander + JAG = Hug


oooooh
matttech
how is it an XY controller?

it looks from the videos that it merely measures up and down

and how are the gates triggered?
Monobass
I take XY to mean '2 axis' in this case. It looks to me like the gate is simply on when it detects the presence of a hand or obstruction.

I was hoping mine would arrive today from schneiders for the weekend. oh well.
sundog
Yes it measures up and down but with the JAG I've been mapping right hand = x; left hand = y. It really feels like a whole new interface. Family have been left bemused by my excessive 'jazz hands' hihi

Default setting is that gate output goes high as soon as it detects your hand above the respective sensor and stays high until you remove it - the instructions mention trimmers that affect the threshold (distance from sensor).
Monobass
damn it. want a JAG.
sundog
it's not necessarily all up and down though.....just worked out that by sweeping one hand horizontally across the Kommander the CV outputs sequence through:
low, low
low, high
high, high
high, low...and back to..
low, low

..which is one clockwise lap round the JAG screaming goo yo
Robert Moob
sundog wrote:
The jacks are very close together...I need to use skinny Doepfer cables if using both CV and gate on the same channel.

But overall I am very impressed especially for



the jacks had to be that close. otherwise it wouldn't have fit in the enclosure or we would have to build in just one sensor instead of two or leave out the gate completely... but with doepfer cables it works fine!
a trick also is to take the second CV as a gate (just move your hand over the LEDs for a second), if you don't need all four outputs at the same time....
Silent Strike
Monobass
I trust ad infinitum cables fit ok?
dan_k
Monobass wrote:
I trust ad infinitum cables fit ok?


Nope, unfortunately not.

I've got Doepfer, Ad infinitum and Erthenvar and only the Doepfer cables are slim enough to fit if you want to use jacks next to each other.

Pick yourself up some Doepfer cables and leave them plugged into the Kommander full time. You're going to want to have it ready anyway since it's so awesome! Guinness ftw!
Monobass
Oh ok. Wish I knew that before I placed my schneiders order... Anyone want to swap 4 doepfer cables for 4 ad infinitum cables?...
artisokka
Monobass wrote:
Oh ok. Wish I knew that before I placed my schneiders order... Anyone want to sell me 4 doepfer cables?


...4 Doepfers for me too, thanks.
drip.feed
Thomann sells Doeofer cables, all different lengths. Search for a-100c.

Here are the 3 longest ones:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a100c80_patchkabel.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a100c120_patchkabel.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_a_100c200.htm
Monobass
could someone take a picture of the business end of the Kommander please?

edit - found one - doesn't like being embedded though.

http://de-bug.de/musiktechnik/archives/6137.html/koma3
matttech
Emis in Bristol sells Doepfer cables too.
dan_k
Here's a close up, with a 9V battery for scale.



It is smaller than I expected. Not that that's a a bad thing but was just surprised when it arrived.
Monobass
all timbral articulation is Kommander. Check the O'Tool for a CV plots.

my left hand filter cutoff (SEM20), right hand X morph (e350)

I also have the filter cutoff CV going through some MATHS slew, mainly on the fall time.

LOVE love that this thing is sensitive enough to do guitar vibrato scale modulation! shaky hand LFOs for the win.

Monobass
can anyone tell me what the max diameter is of the plastic on doepfer cables?
sundog
approx 7mm?
Monobass
I turned my Ad Infinitums into Doepfer cables with the simple application of KNIFE

Monobass
so it seems quite easy for the gates to get stuck on, any tips?

one of mine is releasing the gate too low, the other too high.. I can adjust that with the trimmers... but they both seem to get stuck on quite easily.
Monobass
if anyone is interested, I just built a really simple passive circuit to do gate to trigger conversions.. works fine with Kommander, 8v gate in is giving 4v trigger out and happily triggering 99% of my modules.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=893749#893749
jeannot
Haven't used my gates for anything yet. But I love how accurate the CV is with the active IR sensor, super-precise. Always loved those sensors, active IRs and Max/MSP Jitter, MY ASS IS BLEEDING
osterchrisi
Monobass wrote:
so it seems quite easy for the gates to get stuck on, any tips?

one of mine is releasing the gate too low, the other too high.. I can adjust that with the trimmers... but they both seem to get stuck on quite easily.


Hey, can you explain what you mean exactly with 'get stuck'? The gates are realized with a Schmitt Trigger, so they have a small 'window' where they flip to and stay high. The threshold for flipping high is a tiny bit lower than the threshold where they flip low again to prevent mulitple flips / multiple gate highs if you drank too much coffee hihi So it could be that you simply have to move your hand a bit farer away to get it low again.
Monobass
osterchrisi wrote:
Monobass wrote:
so it seems quite easy for the gates to get stuck on, any tips?

one of mine is releasing the gate too low, the other too high.. I can adjust that with the trimmers... but they both seem to get stuck on quite easily.


Hey, can you explain what you mean exactly with 'get stuck'? The gates are realized with a Schmitt Trigger, so they have a small 'window' where they flip to and stay high. The threshold for flipping high is a tiny bit lower than the threshold where they flip low again to prevent mulitple flips / multiple gate highs if you drank too much coffee hihi So it could be that you simply have to move your hand a bit farer away to get it low again.


Yeah sure - simply that I can remove both hands and step away from the Kommander and the gates are sometimes staying high.
DanielW
A little "oil drum" patch I made:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/neizvestija/kommander-on-oil-drums[/s]

Kommander controls the Make Noise Optomix VCA, with a gate going into STRIKE and cv in the other two black CV inputs.

Sounds are from self oscillating cross-patched Plague Bearers into WMD Micro Hadron Collider VCF. Routed through Sherman Filterbank and WMD Acoustic Trauma. FX by Eventide Pitchfactor, Timefactor and Space.
DanielW
BTW, two Doepfer and two Ad Infinitum cables fit nicely side by side on the Kommander.
DanielW
OK, one more with the same basic setup, plus Machinedrum. A bit more melodic this time:

[s]http://soundcloud.com/neizvestija/in-kommand[/s]
de_raaf
orded one friday at escape from noise, looking forward :-)
Vcoadsr
Just pre-ordered a Kommander from Koma website.

Anyone know when this 2nd batch will be available?
tektoktiktak
Hey ya'll!

In 3 weeks a whole new run of KOMMANDERS will be leaving our workspace. The last run was sold out in 1,5 weeks, so make sure you reserve your unit before its too late!

This is the link where you can pre-order:
http://www.koma-elektronik.com/products/kommander/ applause
nrdvrgr
...any news on bananaoptions (and ground jack). One can at least hope.
tektoktiktak
nrdvrgr wrote:
...any news on bananaoptions (and ground jack). One can at least hope.


Sorry, not gonna happen in this run. We are figuring out good work arounds though!
tektoktiktak
We are working on the new production run of the KOMMANDER!

Just to give the supporters an idea of how that goes, here are some pics:





applause
GeoffC
Hi, the Kommander looks really neat.

Do you have a US distributor?

Thanks.

GeoffC
Kingnimrod
they sell stuff through bigcitymusic and analogue haven but I'm not sure if either has the kommander. You should just buy direct - I received my Kommander in a 1.5-2 weeks, and Koma's service is top-notch.
tektoktiktak
We indeed sell through our website directly with now only 6 days of shipping worldwide (5,50 EUR per order).

We also have a few dealers who will get the KOMMANDER in soon (the parcels to them were sent out last week):

Analogue Haven (Santa Monica, CA) - http://www.analoguehaven.com/
Control (NYC) - http://www.ctrl-mod.com/
Control Voltage (Portland, OR) - http://controlvoltage.net/

Big City Music in Los Angeles, CA (http://www.bigcitymusic.com/) is at the moment pedal dealer only.

And about that Customer service, we try our best KingNimrod we're not worthy
solaris
Kingnimrod wrote:
You should just buy direct - I received my Kommander in a 1.5-2 weeks, and Koma's service is top-notch.


yes+yes, fast shipping & friendly contact.
GeoffC
Thanks for the info everyone.

If they don't show up at a US distributor in a little while I'll place a direct order.

GeoffC
muncky
I think I'd have ordered this ten minutes ago (having discovered 13 minutes ago!), but for the power supply - my other two pedals are centre positive. Any ideas if it's possible to switch the polarity without cocking up the Kommander?

(I hope Sundog is packing his this weekend...!)
dan_k
These are easy to come by, it's the same standard as Boss power supplies.

9V 500mA negative tip.

Don't let a little thing like a power supply get in the way. These are wayyy to much fun. I just bought a second one.
muncky
Yeah, just trying to avoid having yet another power supply kicking around, so if there was a quick swap, that'd be ace. Could always hack my daisy chain Mr. Green
osterchrisi
Unfortunately I don't see an option of powering the Kommander with a centre positive power supply. The DC input jack is firmly soldered to the board and there is no way of changing its polarity - also not through cutting tracks or similar stuff.

Possibly the easiest way would be to get one of those power supplies where you can choose the polarity by turning the plug 180° but I think this is not what you want... sorry.
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