Serge Business Model

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

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wetterberg
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Post by wetterberg » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:07 pm

chrisso wrote:In the end, if I recommend the Serge Frequency Shifter (fabulous) to someone on a forum, or the Wave Multiplier (monster!), they find their route to ownership a little more tricky than from other small synth companies.
I think that's a shame, but that's where my passion in this debate ends.
It's a shame in my humble opinion. If I'm wrong to think that, it's cool.
I think this is a very valid statement!

But take that thought to its logical conclusion and you end up with... Wave Multipliers and frequency shifters in a different format, ie the one the user is already working with... Or standalone, even.

But hey, Rex clearly isn't looking to change things up, and while you and I may (in secret, never to speak of it here!) wish that the Serge line was even more modular (and in my case at least, 3U tall and +-12v) then it'll remain a thought experiment, at best.
a.

chrisso
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Post by chrisso » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:27 pm

b3nsf wrote:
hey Im sorry for suggesting you balance your module selection, that would be foolish of me, and really really is not my style.... :doh:
I believe you were just explaining some of Rex's rationale. No problem! :love:
But what is more interesting to me is what modules do you like from the serge line up?
My first panel was chosen towards two ends; as an audio processor, and as an expansion panel to other banana format modules I owned.
It contains a UAP, an Audio Mixer, a Resonant EQ, a DSG, a Frequency Shifter and 2 x VCM's.
I did get extensive advice from Rex before ordering, although it was his idea to order 2 Wave Multipliers as he said you could never have enough of this fabulous module. Well I've rarely used both in a patch.
Apart from that I really love all the modules I chose, and the panel has performed very well in both audio processing and expansion duties.
I later ordered a second panel along the lines of a standard synth with multiple oscillators, a filter and an envelope. But I found this slightly less exciting (for whatever reason) than my original panel, so sold it along with a TKB.

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sascha.victoria
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Post by sascha.victoria » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:29 pm

parasitk wrote:The Animal is almost everything I'm interested in a Serge panel. That and a TKB and there's my Serge fix.
Agreed. The Animal has just about everything and the TKB has just about everything else.

I was intimidated by the Serge / Buchla start up cost for a long time then I realized that I spend about 15-25k in instruments / recording gear a year. All I needed to do was not buy anything for a few months and then blow a bigger load instead of buying 2 "smaller" items. I think I've been drooling over the Animal for about 10 years and now it will be mine!

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b3nsf
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Post by b3nsf » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:55 pm

sascha,

congrats! I was tempted by the animal and soup panels... I went M and the waters are indeed good.... TKB rules them all! :soapbox: :waah:
its like saying you experience michaelangelo because there is a picture on your happy meal
--shreddoggie
Last time I checked there was nothing Vanilla about old Chi- Acid....that shit's Chocolate as it gets.
--Kendall Station

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b3nsf
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Post by b3nsf » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:31 pm

wetterberg wrote:(in secret, never to speak of it here!)
whoops! :mrgreen:
its like saying you experience michaelangelo because there is a picture on your happy meal
--shreddoggie
Last time I checked there was nothing Vanilla about old Chi- Acid....that shit's Chocolate as it gets.
--Kendall Station

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smitty
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Post by smitty » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:51 am

Chrisso,

I was driving home tonight and had a while to put myself in your perspective. It must have been pretty killer to get custom Serge panels made, and I can see how you could get used to it. I can see the frustration going the custom route, and then having limited options, and the overlap of getting M or shop panels. There must have been something flawed in that business model to change it, and if you think about it a bit, it isn't too hard to come up with a bunch of reasons why it went this course.

On the flip side, just getting in to Serge now and following the design principals laid forth is pretty awesome too. Rex has put a lot of thought in to the M series.

Business evolves over time, who knows, maybe what your looking for isn't out of reach at all. If your serious, call up Rex, and make a proposal. It's not like your buying a DVD player OEM'd in China somewhere. There are also a lot of other designers around these parts that might be willing to do some custom work for you.

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sascha.victoria
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Post by sascha.victoria » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:54 am

You know, if someone really thinks there's a market for Serge modules in Euro format why not just contact Rex and work out a commission agreement like Wiard has with Malekko and Make Noise. I have no idea if he'd be interested in it but it couldn't hurt to ask.

2012
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Post by 2012 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:35 am

sascha.victoria wrote:You know, if someone really thinks there's a market for Serge modules in Euro format why not just contact Rex and work out a commission agreement like Wiard has with Malekko and Make Noise. I have no idea if he'd be interested in it but it couldn't hurt to ask.
he will say NO,but others did it without asking...,so probably u don't have to ask REX at all :twisted:

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Post by mono-poly » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:55 am

It is lame if you steal that stuff.
The farad is the captain of my print.

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suitandtieguy
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Post by suitandtieguy » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:24 am

it's lame that guy can't spell.

2012
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Post by 2012 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:42 am

i think both din't get here what i did mean. :bang:

U have not to ask REX permission but serge!
suitandtieguy wrote:it's lame that guy can't spell.
check yourself first before commenting others

viewtopic.php?p=66459&highlight=#66459


:yay:

chrisso
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Post by chrisso » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:10 am

I'm not going to go back down the Serge road probably, I've already been there.
Talking of proposing ideas that seem crazy.....
A few years ago there was a portable system to house mic/pre's, eq's and compressors called an API lunchbox.
The idea was all API's, and they were the only contemporary maker of the modules that fit in it.
Then someone asked permission to make their own eq for the format and API agreed, then someone else.......
Pretty soon a dozen boutique companies are making modules for the API format lunchbox, and the format is more popular than ever.
I find that business model exciting especially for the consumer. More competition on prices and more choice.
The STS business model is less exciting to me.

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mono-poly
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Post by mono-poly » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:13 am

I guess your Fenix aint exciting to.
The farad is the captain of my print.

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ix
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Post by ix » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:44 am

i feel serge's business model is perfect for them ? isnt that why they do what they do ? yes a single osc here or this or that there would be cool but we must remember that its not always possible for a company to work like this and sometimes They do not want to , i can imagine if serge started doing single modules the work load and time would go up , tax , employees , it is an expansion your proposing and one that in the end leads to more complications for some businesses and many businesses do not wish to expand as it brings more trouble and no real extra profit ..Its a bit arrogant to claim first their business model is flawed and second ' they should' simply expand like this.....do you know where their business is at ? whether rex wants to expand ? wants to do more products ? whether he wants more income ? I think this whole idea of having to be like every other maker , mass market , spread the word etc is not the way and also the exact opposite from what serge and others are about - namely small quirky designs , some limited availability and a general breaking of typical business rules .I think at the end of the day you just have to respect that as it stands even with no email or website serge is perfect , its what it is, i feel your suggesting serge should be following some ' normal ' business model and as they are not their business model is flawed , thats totally wrong..I see alot of people buying these panels and also the m class stuff and quite happy ? so serge are doing just fine , they are not quite meeting your requirements but then they are not in business on your behalf ! yes you need to please the customer , sell goods that are desirable etc but are they not doing this ? Its actually the way they work that gives them an edge and a general feeling they are not meeting ' your ' requirements and therefore have a flawed business model is really a flawed viewpoint.Your saying serge are not ideal for me therefore they are flawed.......? .

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Post by HexEnduction » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:45 am

chrisso wrote:I'm not going to go back down the Serge road probably, I've already been there.
Talking of proposing ideas that seem crazy.....

The STS business model is less exciting to me.
Classic.

So the last 5 pages of bitching and moaning about how terrible it is that Rex won't sell you individual modules or custom panels was all just for shits and giggles? :deadbanana: Troll.

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Post by andrewF » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:02 am

2012 wrote: he will say NO,but others did it without asking...,so probably u don't have to ask REX at all :twisted:
What others did it? - name names!
U have not to ask REX permission but serge!
according to the EGRES site, Rex bought the designs off Serge -
"In 1992 Serge decided to move back to France. It was at this point that he sold the closely-guarded circuit designs to longtime associate Rex Probe, who then founded Sound Transform Systems."

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mono-poly
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Post by mono-poly » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:08 am

Wohahaaaaaaaa what happend to your avatar Andrew?

:sb:
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andrewF
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Post by andrewF » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:54 am

somebody put something in my drink :guinness:

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Post by chrisso » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:34 am

HexEnduction wrote:
So the last 5 pages of bitching and moaning about how terrible it is that Rex won't sell you individual modules or custom panels was all just for shits and giggles? :deadbanana: Troll.
Rubbish.
You see it only as 'bitching and moaning'?
It was in complete response to the discussion on another thread as to wether to keep several Serge panels or not (in favour of more Buchla).
If you think all of what I've said here amounts to pure trolling..... well I'm now speechless.
Last edited by chrisso on Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by chrisso » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:39 am

ix wrote:Its a bit arrogant to claim first their business model is flawed and second ' they should' simply expand like this.....do you know where their business is at ? whether rex wants to expand ? wants to do more products ? whether he wants more income ?
My point of view is that of a user, and of a Serge enthusiast (Serge, not so much STS).
I've been plain in saying Rex's business is his own business....none of my business.
In his shoes i would do things differently, that's all.
My point is his decisions stop the spread of Serge usage, whereas most other modular makers' business models encourage the wider use of their modules.
I'm not trying to change Rex's model, just saying it's a shame more people aren't buying and enjoying Serge modules, as they now are Buchla for example. It's a shame Serge owners who have to contemplate selling their panels, know they can't replace them other than with pre-ordained module collections in future.
Sorry if this view seems to offend so many people.
Last edited by chrisso on Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:56 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by chrisso » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:41 am

mono-poly wrote:I guess your Fenix aint exciting to.
It's fine. Very nice.
Just not the be-all-end-all of cult synths some people seem to assume it is.

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Post by chrisso » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:52 am

:huh: Double post

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Post by HexEnduction » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:03 am

chrisso wrote:
HexEnduction wrote:
So the last 5 pages of bitching and moaning about how terrible it is that Rex won't sell you individual modules or custom panels was all just for shits and giggles? :deadbanana: Troll.
Rubbish.
You see it only as 'bitching and moaning'?
It was in complete response to the discussion on another thread as to wether to keep several Serge panels or not (in favour of more Buchla).
If you think all of what I've said here amounts to pure trolling..... well I'm now speechless.
:oops: OK.

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Post by chrisso » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:08 am

Well I would happily end this, but people keep posting interesting, debatable points.
Sorry, it was meant to be a meaningful debate on an unlikely to change (admittedly) scenario.
But there you have it.
Good night.
(Apologies and thanks) :oops:

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Post by suitandtieguy » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:36 am

2012 wrote:
suitandtieguy wrote:it's lame that guy can't spell.
check yourself first before commenting others
if you would stop typing like a 12 year old girl with a T-Mobile Sidekick and use legitimate grammar your words and perspective would be given more respect.

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