How do you use your mixer

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

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Arturo00
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How do you use your mixer

Post by Arturo00 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:28 pm

So as some of you may know, I just picked up a Panasonic WJ-MX12 video mixer. My initial plan was to feed a few sources (video footage, cameras, etc) into the mixer and then send that to the modular. But now I'm not sure I necessarily want to do that. Is there anything else I can try? Perhaps the addition of a video switcher so I can add other sources on top of the two mentioned might help expand things.

So I'm curious to know how others are using your mixers in your video rigs?




Ps. Apologies if this seems rather rudimentary.
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lizlarsen
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Post by lizlarsen » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:07 pm

One thing you can do is send your video source into the mixer and the video synthesizer at the same time. Then send the video synthesizer into the mixer as well, and do fades/keys between the effected footage and the original footage. It's a good way to layer crazier stuff in with your original color source.

You can also use the mixer to do feedback loops, by splitting the output back to one of its inputs. Or put the video synthesizer inside the feedback loop.

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Post by barto » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:22 pm

feedback fun! one of my favs is to send a mixer out to one of the ins for feedback. then take another source and key it out mixed with the mixer feedback. then mixing DSK. or take footage and a camera, key out the footage and point the camera at the screen

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Post by bitSmasher » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:09 pm

If you have more than 3 or 4 sources you want to switch between, look at a Video Matrix Switcher like the Extron MAV+
I know I mention them all the time, but they're a handy way to control multiple ins and outs.

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Post by barto » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:22 pm

or try and find one of these bad boys for cheap

Image

4 inputs and 2 outputs. use any 4 inputs and send the 2 outputs to the A and B buses of your mixer. now you have 4 sources at your disposal. i found this unit for 5$ still in the box

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Post by Arturo00 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:19 pm

Yeah! These are the suggestions I was hoping for. I knew there was more I could do with the mixer then just plugging sources in then sending it to the modular.
bitSmasher wrote:If you have more than 3 or 4 sources you want to switch between, look at a Video Matrix Switcher like the Extron MAV+
I know I mention them all the time, but they're a handy way to control multiple ins and outs.
I can probably score one of these easily from clients now that everyone's upgrading to HDMI! Good suggestion for sure.
barto wrote:or try and find one of these bad boys for cheap

Image

4 inputs and 2 outputs. use any 4 inputs and send the 2 outputs to the A and B buses of your mixer. now you have 4 sources at your disposal. i found this unit for 5$ still in the box
My friend suggested I check value village to get things like this :tu:
Last edited by Arturo00 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Arturo00 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:21 pm

Double post.
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Post by giorgio » Thu May 10, 2012 11:03 pm

feedback! put a video processor in the loop and shit gets wacky real quick
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Post by Arturo00 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:38 pm

So I've decided to revamp my live video rig. My plan is to upgrade my mixer to an Edirol V4 or Videonics MX-3000/MX-Pro, along with a CV matrix switcher.

Here's the basic premise of my system:

Image

The point is to have everything go into and come out of the matrix switcher, and use it's user presets to switch sources. At the moment, the drawing shows the projector being fed directly by the mixer, but that can be changed. Figured that might simplify things. Also, if you're not aware, a matrix switcher allows for any input to be routed to any output. I believe you can also send each input to multiple outs. These things provide ultimate route-ability!

So I have a handle on a very cheap 16x16 s-video matrix switcher on ebay. My main concern at this point is which mixer to get. I'm seeing V4's on kijiji for $575-$600. Seems rather reasonable. I'm also seeing the MX-Pro for around that price, give or take. Does anyone have an opinion on either mixer? I'd love to hear from people that have used both.

Also, please feel free to comment on anything in my design.
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Post by johnnywoods » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:18 pm

Videonica build quality is questionable at best. I've had my V4 for close to ten years, it has been (literally) around the world, and has never missed a beat.
For studio use, there are definitely better mixers, but the V4 is unbeatable for gigging, IMO.

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Post by i.m.klif » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:18 am

definitely not in this price range, but vixid VJX16 video mixer is imho best sd mixer available for creative use. i haven't seen that anyone mentioned it here so far... it is pricey but it's worth it.

http://www.vixid.com/index.php?m=4&rub=3&lang=en

it has 16 inputs, can show 4 layers at once with photoshop type copymodes. it has BCS, RGB, crop, full keyer, scroll, etc on every channel. it can output 3 different things at the same time (i often use it as 3 channel BCS processor + color corrector). it has full midi implementation of every parameter. it can work as 4 channel mixer or as two 2 channel mixers (battle mode). it is built like a tank....

i assume outputs are genlocked (i have no easy way to test this). if so, it could be used to genlock + process three separate channels into modular.

when it comes to usage, here are few ways i use it:
4 channel mixer - the obvious stuff
2x 2 channel mixer - basically two 2 channel mixers to drive 2 projectors
3 separate processors - i can get 3 different input channels to 3 different outputs with full BCS, RGB, crop, fx processing. as i do a lot of multichannel camera feedback stuff, it's great to have 3 channels with complete control.
3 synced keyers - i input 3 separate bw masks encoded as one color each in rgb. i select that channel as keyer input on other 3 channels. selecting R, G or B keyer type i get 3 synced keyed videos.
using preview as fx send - preview is really flexible (prefx, postfx, post fader, etc), and i regularly use it as fx send.


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Post by Arturo00 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:22 pm

Thanks Johnnywoods! I recall you speaking very highly of the V4 in the past. I think I'm pretty sold on it.

Kliff, that thing looks magical! But yeah, that is way over my price range right now. Either way, its something to strive for.
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Post by giorgio » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:29 am

get the v4 it is a workhorse. i have a panasonic mx-10 and sima sfx-m that i love very much, they work really well and feel/look nice, but I always grab the v4 when leaving the studio. been doing gigs with just a v4 and 3 iphones. i got a tiny like 4" LCD with composite in to use as a preview monitor and wouldn't have it any other way.
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Post by wcfields » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:14 am

Putting in my recommendation for the Edirol V4 as well.

Only thing I wish it had was multi-view and a preview. Everything is done live so you can't try things out on the fly in preview like one can with a more proper mixer.
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Post by Arturo00 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:02 am

Thanks Giorgio.

wcfields wrote:Putting in my recommendation for the Edirol V4 as well.

Only thing I wish it had was multi-view and a preview. Everything is done live so you can't try things out on the fly in preview like one can with a more proper mixer.
Hmm, this is good to know.

So you can't see all 4 inputs at once on the preview out? Can you at least scroll through the different inputs to setup a shot? Or does the preview menu only show options?

The one thing I really liked about the Videonics MX-Pro was that the preview out can display all 4 inputs at once.
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Post by barto » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:20 pm

the edirol v8 is nice too. 8 inputs with loop through. monitor out (though i wish it would display all sources at once) and built in scan converter

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Post by Arturo00 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:38 pm

barto wrote:the edirol v8 is nice too. 8 inputs with loop through. monitor out (though i wish it would display all sources at once) and built in scan converter
Heh. That ain't gonna happen. I'd have to start seriously moving some gear to afford something like that. Not to mention, this is only a hobby at this point. Though, I seem to be waaaay busier with visuals then I ever was with music. So who knows...
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Post by wcfields » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:58 pm

Arturo00 wrote:So you can't see all 4 inputs at once on the preview out? Can you at least scroll through the different inputs to setup a shot? Or does the preview menu only show options?

The one thing I really liked about the Videonics MX-Pro was that the preview out can display all 4 inputs at once.
There are 5 options for a preview-out, 4 cams, and then the "menu" which is basically what's being shown live w/ some text overlay of what the buttons are mapped to and what's currently enabled. See below:
Image

The MX-Pro will display all sources but not in real-time, I think it does it at like 3 fps or something. Also the MX-Pro is not very good for instant effects, it has a lag of 1-3 seconds from when you trigger, and then the whole preview screen refreshes and that takes a few seconds too.

The 'best' way is to get a mutli-view security camera system and loop through all your sources through it. You can find those on eBay for ~$20-40.
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Post by Arturo00 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:09 pm

wcfields wrote:There are 5 options for a preview-out, 4 cams, and then the "menu" which is basically what's being shown live w/ some text overlay of what the buttons are mapped to and what's currently enabled.
Ok. So the preview doesn't show them all at once, but you can scroll between them individually to at least preview them before you select to display it. That's good.

And also good to know about the shortcomings of the MX-Pro. That lag doesn't sound so nice and I didn't realize the input previews were only 3fps. Things like that don't seem to be mentioned in any of the reviews I've read, or demo I've seen.
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Post by Arturo00 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:20 pm

wcfields wrote:The 'best' way is to get a mutli-view security camera system and loop through all your sources through it. You can find those on eBay for ~$20-40.
I think I'm ok with scrolling through the sources, but something like a multi-view security camera system would be mighty handy. Haven't really spent a lot of time looking for anything like that.
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Post by wcfields » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:18 am

I've got a GVI Multiplexer model # GV-CMP163R-A and it has 16 Camera Ins+pass throughs. Made in 2008, no less! They are rack-mount and have a lot of ways to configure.

It uses a barrel plug 12V 2.5A DC power supply (fairly easy to find if it doesn't come with) and they go for real cheap on ebay.

I only wish it had a VGA-out so I could use a cheapo old LCD computer monitor, but the world isn't perfect.

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Post by mr_coops » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:56 am

Hi,
I'm mostly a computer VJ, but getting more into live generated visual of an analogue type world. But it sems some hardware is multi use:)
I've got a V4 and a KPE flight cased with preview screens.
The screens are little rearview screens for cars, I then have a kramer matrix which takes up to 8 inputs which can be outputted via 8 outputs, so basiclly the 8 out puts work in pairs, 1 of each pair goes to the V4 and the other of the pair goes to the preview screen. The bigger preview screen you can see is fed from the V4's preview output.
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Post by Arturo00 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:05 pm

mr_coops

That's awesome!
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Post by samn » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:04 pm

That mixer flight case with the preview screens is really cool!

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Post by Addy Bart » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:36 am

edit: first post and in the wrong thread
:doh:

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