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Dual Mixolator owners and users
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Wiard  
Author Dual Mixolator owners and users
thesnow
I included this question in a post on my last topic but have not received a response yet and I kind of would like to know asap so I figured I'd make it its own topic.

By the bye, how many inputs is the Dual Mixolator? Is it a 2-input mixer, 4-input mixer, 8-input mixer etc?

I've tried studying the module and I even downloaded the Dual Mixolator manual but I still couldn't figure it out.

I know the Dual Mixolator, as well as all the other 300 Series modules, have many secrets and magic hidden all over, but what are the main advantages of having the Dual Mixolator as a mixer module over the Dual Envelator module which has 2 inputs itself or any other possible module that allows mixing sources?

I'm still in debate whether I want a Dual Mixolator or a Dual Envelator first.

Thanks.
revmutt
If you want Mixing signals, whether audio or c/v the mixolator is it. The envelator is among other things an envelope generator, a modulation source and a whole hell of a lot of fun.
thesnow
Yeah I figured that much and that doesn't answer my question about whether its a dual 4-input mixer or 8-input mixer etc but I see what you're saying.

Just not decided yet if to get the Mixolator first or the Envelator since it also has some mixing functions.

No biggie though. I'm leaning more towards the Mixolator first for whatever reason or another.

Thanks anyway.
sandyb
sometimes answers to questions take a day or two!

mixolator has 3 inputs on each side basically. X1, X2 and Y1.

i don't use mixers a whole lot so personally i'd go for an envelator first as it has the two input mixer and does a load of other stuff too.
thesnow
sandbyb, understood. thanks for the info. appreciate it.

one more question btw, I was wondering about the PSU's that Hinton sells, is it 1 standard PSU that Hinton sells for all Wiard 300 systems or do the PSU's differ depending on different systems or how large or small they are?

Thanks again.
Roycie Roller
....basically, it can be all of the above,
or something else altogether... It's motherfucking bacon yo


Basically, the Mixolator is not a conventional mixer in the sense of a mixing desk. It is instead a voltage and audio mixer-processor which can perform scaling, adding, inversion, multiplication, ring & cross-modulation, etc, on audio, control voltages, or a combination of both.



There are 2 identical circuits in the module (hence, 'dual' Mixolator)- one on each side of the panel. Each circuit has 3 dc-coupled inputs (X1, X2, Y) and 1 cv input (Z-MOD). Being dc-coupled, the input signals can either be audio (line level), control voltages (+/-10v) or a mix of both. the Z-MOD input is for voltage controlled cross-fading & depth of ring-modulation (see manual for explanation). There are four outputs (X+, X-, Y+ & Y-) which are determined entirely by the type of input signals used for X1, X2, Y & ZMOD, and the amount of attenuation for each.
For example, this means that you could process only audio signals to create a 4-part harmonic 'chord' (freely tunable to any musical scale or chaotic 'noise' you want). Or, you could process a slower waveform to create new audible tones heard at the X+ Y+ outputs, as well as corresponding sub-audible cv's mirrored at the X- & Y- outputs. Alternatively, you could process 4 sub-audible cv's to create an entirely new control voltage with a 360 degree aspect, divided into 4 outputs (X+, X-, Y+, Y-)...possibly a quadrature LFO???



So, a 'dual' Mixolator has 2 independent Mixolator circuits, each with 3 inputs, 1 cv input, and 4 outputs. Their processing power increases exponentially when you feed the outputs from one circuit through the inputs of the second. Also, the multiples can be 'tapped' at any point in the processing to 'split off' the signal & use elsewhere. This is especially fun with stackables. You can get some amazing stereo images happening by creating a kind of mirrored vibrato effect with the X+, X-, Y+ and Y- outputs...This is why i think a 2nd 'dual' Mixolator would be amazing!! MY ASS IS BLEEDING


In theory, i think you should be able to cover a fair bit of part of what an Envelator can do...I emphasize the part bit because this is where the true similarities end. The Mixolator is not a cycling clock source, nor a true, voltage controlled EG. However, it can be used for slopes (rise and fall), and for processing clocks. It can be used as a 'blank canvass' for tone generation, whereas the Envelator cannot, at least in the same way- it can only make new tones when cycled at audio-rate & then fm'd up the A & D mods MY ASS IS BLEEDING (often spectacular, btw!)


Also, the Mixolator was designed to interface with recording devices.



hope that helps, a bit smile
thesnow
Roycieroller, yes, that helps very much.

thanks for all the info. you're the best!

all these questions will end soon enough : )

I really like the idea of having a fully dedicated mixer for your system, so even though I know the Envelator is awesome, I think I'm gonna lean towards the Mixolator first. Some of the effects you described sound excellent to me.

Thanks again.
Roycie Roller
thesnow wrote:
Roycieroller, yes, that helps very much.

thanks for all the info. you're the best!

all these questions will end soon enough : )

I really like the idea of having a fully dedicated mixer for your system, so even though I know the Envelator is awesome, I think I'm gonna lean towards the Mixolator first. Some of the effects you described sound excellent to me.

Thanks again.



smile

no worries! Snowman

i LOVE discussing the Wiard, and have always wished there was more of it, so your questions are most welcome. i asked a shitload of questions on the yahoo group when i was in your shoes a few years ago, and learnt a LOT of invaluable stuff, and made some great friends who were fellow users. i am nowhere near understanding the modules, but i find discussing them helps me (& hopefully others!) get a better idea of how they work.

you should also ring Grant at some stage and talk to him about your musical ideas and his thoughts on the Wiard. he's a very cool guy, very down to earth, and a great conversationalist. talking to him will help you better understand how the modules work.


i don't think you can go wrong with the Mixolator- think of it as like the 'gel' that will enable all the other modules to form a system and 'sing' as one. it's the only 300 module that can perform this role- all the others are very much 'standalone' synths in their own right. you might have up to 30 separate audio sources from just 4 modules, but the Mixolator will be where you can consolidate them & tame all the chaos into something musical. you can use it like a cutting machine to quickly edit a 'wayward' sound or to extract a certain bit of a sound where it might be otherwise lost if you'd adjusted the settings of module itself.

smile


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Illwiggle
Excellent thread! Im a newby to modular myself, decided to try Wiard 300 series out......and I just scored a used Mixolator as my 1st module.....It does seem like a strange module to start with, but I can see how structurally this will add a massive amount of synthesis power to a system of even a couple more modules. This thread shed a lot of light on the Mixolator question, esp being that there's very little info out there about what his thing's capable of.....and no demos!

So now Im debating what to get next....Probably CVCO & Borg....those 2 along with the Mixolator should make a nice startup instrument, no?

I do drones, noises, leads, & rhythmic synthesis....
slow_riot
Hi Illwiggle, welcome to the format and the world of modular.

You have already clocked the first thing, modular is very much about synergy. Lots of people often ask "what is the best filter/oscillator", but for me it's about how things work in combination.

I think you will get where you want just by choosing what will suit your immediate needs. Working with a small and limited system to start with can be an advantage as you adjust to the new techniques of a physical modular. And the more you explore the more your future needs will become clearer.

Some advice... Hinton Instruments PSU is the only properly designed power supply on the market. Minijacks will need replacing after approx 10 years, bantams much much longer than this. Balanced inputs and outputs become necessary with a properly wired studio, and use the same amount of circuitry as unbalanced. So given that the cost is the same for balanced, massively reliable connectors... I'm not thinking about minijacks any more.

The previous official Wiard forum is worth digging around in.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/wiardgroup/info
drumsofd00m
Most seems to have been said already (didn't read too closely tho as I'm on the hop). snow, there was a thread on VCAs a few lines down that you might wanna check also, I described some of the differences between the Mixo, the Envelator's Xfader and the VCO's/ WFC's onboard VCAs there.

Definitely Envelator first for most music styles, although really all Wiard modules are marvelous enough to warrant using them as the center of experimentation.

Generally I'd picture: Envelator = source of things, Mixolator = processor of things.

BTW welcome back, sandy!


P.S. Minijacks on my 1999-2001 made 300 modules and 2004-2007 made 1200 series are WAY tighter than on my 2011-2014 modules, while pots and electronics needed a few bits of servicing as expected with that age.

In fact they're so tight that I don't use Doepfer patchcords with the old modules anymore because it would flex the panels, even with Hinton's superb bolting system.
Eowave orange and Expert Sleepers glow cables work well with either jack generation, i.e. they sit reasonably firm or relaxed respectively.
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