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Serge Synthesizers soon for euro
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 12, 13, 14, 15  Next [all]
Author Serge Synthesizers soon for euro
Nils
Muff Wiggler wrote:
Seriously. The whole point of a forum, or discussion in general, is for people to express their opinion.


Totally agree. But there are many different ways to express one's opinion. I would think someone like you to express yourself in a more respectful way, considering who you are.
Muff Wiggler
Dude, my name is "Muff Wiggler". That should say enough.

I 'set a tone' here? It's funny since people act the way they want - certainly not following my lead, often to my chagrin. But when they don't like what I've said, suddenly I'm the one setting the tone for all to follow? C'mon. Be fair.

Now do we really REALLY want to get into a dollars-per-oscullator type examination of Wiard vs Serge pricing?

Hint: you don't.

Another hint: open one of Rex's magical power supplies. Then I dare you to come back and challenge my opinion here.

I'm sorry you don't like it, I really am. But the stuff is overpriced. Compared to anything in the scene it's overpriced. It's great stuff but it's comically overpriced. If it wasn't I would have a lot of it. This is coming from a guy who has spent around $30k on products from one manufacturer.

I'm glad Rex is in business. I'm glad people love his stuff, hell I love his stuff, but I think it's obscenely overpriced. To the point that it's truly comical to me.

Love your system but not to the point of delusion. It is what it is - the cost of entry is staggering and more power to Rex for making it work. In my not-so_humble opinion the pricing is obscene.
Soviet Space Child
Muff Wiggler wrote:
Dude, my name is "Muff Wiggler". That should say enough.

I 'set a tone' here? It's funny since people act the way they want - certainly not following my lead, often to my chagrin. But when they don't like what I've said, suddenly I'm the one setting the tone for all to follow? C'mon. Be fair.

Now do we really REALLY want to get into a dollars-per-oscullator type examination of Wiard vs Serge pricing?

Hint: you don't.

Another hint: open one of Rex's magical power supplies. Then I dare you to come back and challenge my opinion here.

I'm sorry you don't like it, I really am. But the stuff is overpriced. Compared to anything in the scene it's overpriced. It's great stuff but it's comically overpriced. If it wasn't I would have a lot of it. This is coming from a guy who has spent around $30k on products from one manufacturer.

I'm glad Rex is in business. I'm glad people love his stuff, hell I love his stuff, but I think it's obscenely overpriced. To the point that it's truly comical to me.

Love your system but not to the point of delusion. It is what it is - the cost of entry is staggering and more power to Rex for making it work. In my not-so_humble opinion the pricing is obscene.


So instead of actually taking the time to address any of my concerns, you opt to double down on your attack on a small manufacturer. Classy.
Muff Wiggler
seriously, i just don't get it I guess some folks only see what they want to.
noobyscooby
I think that Wiard 300 series is overpriced. If it wasn't I would have a lot of it. I have Modcan A, Serge and many vintage synthesizers. I find them less overpriced than the Wiard 300 series.

Here's a fucking newsflash. It's ALL overpriced. Euro and 5U too. Like other boutique industries we are willing to pay premiums for handmade, limited items. But the price of admission is what it is. And for me Modcan A and Serge are my favorites.

So if everyone is free to express their opinions regardless of what others think or feel again does that mean that Nelson Babboon is going to be invited back? There's been a lot of pissing matches and bad vibes around here lately that i don't think were any worse than grumpy Gene's rants. Seems like since he's been gone a few members have been puffing their chests out extra hard in a manner that doesn't suit them well.
essex sound lab
noobyscooby wrote:

So if everyone is free to express their opinions regardless of what others think or feel again does that mean that Nelson Babboon is going to be invited back?


Bingo.
Muff Wiggler
noobyscooby wrote:
I think that Wiard 300 series is overpriced. If it wasn't I would have a lot of it. I have Modcan A, Serge and many vintage synthesizers. I find them less overpriced than the Wiard 300 series.


i (obviously) disagree but certainly respect your opinion, understand why you feel that way and don't hold it against you in the least!

Quote:
So if everyone is free to express their opinions regardless of what others think or feel again does that mean that Nelson Babboon is going to be invited back?


Absolutely not. While some take the expression of opinions by others in a personal way, Nelson Baboon went out of the way to MAKE his statements personal attacks. His behaviour went far, far beyond expressing an opinion. Surely I don't have to explain the difference.
essex sound lab
Muff Wiggler wrote:

Absolutely not. While some take the expression of opinions by others in a personal way, Nelson Baboon went out of the way to MAKE his statements personal attacks. His behaviour went far, far beyond expressing an opinion. Surely I don't have to explain the difference.


Well, you don't HAVE to. But I don't honestly see how you could know, with certainty, what his motivations were. There's intent and there's perception. Intent is very hard to objectively ascertain.

And to the poster's point -- I don't see that the "vibes" here have substantially changed after NB's ban. But hey, that's just *my* perception. Someone else may see it all as civil discourse.
essex sound lab
Muff Wiggler wrote:
seriously, i just don't get it I guess some folks only see what they want to.


*All* folks see what they want to. Or, at least, what they're capable of seeing based on their vantage point. All of us.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
noobyscooby wrote:
Here's a fucking newsflash. It's ALL overpriced. Euro and 5U too. Like other boutique industries we are willing to pay premiums for handmade, limited items.

If you knew just how little money was made on this stuff, you'd understand why. Many manufacturers are doing this out of passion, and barely covering their costs.
Bricks
@ALL
OH YEAH WELL YO MOMMA IS SO FAT THAT SOFTWARE SYNTHS HAVE YET TO REPLICATE HER TONE!

razz

Pretty glad Euro peops will get even more Serge functions/philosophy. Great stuff on both sides.

Also, goddamn everything is expensive.
Astonishing(ly awesome) that there is enough community/economy to keep these businesses going.

Also, I personally would love some well-spaced / 4u high bananafied euro.
Can't even tell you the number of times I've thought about starting a group buy for a 4Unannerified Harvestman panel

Drunken Homer Simpson
noobyscooby
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
noobyscooby wrote:
Here's a fucking newsflash. It's ALL overpriced. Euro and 5U too. Like other boutique industries we are willing to pay premiums for handmade, limited items.

If you knew just how little money was made on this stuff, you'd understand why. Many manufacturers are doing this out of passion, and barely covering their costs.


I do know what goes into it. I do know what's out there and what's come before.

We as consumers pay the price for items that are not mass produced and boutique is my point. I don't give a fuck from a production standpoint. I know no one's turning large profits but that doesn't make it less overpriced than it is. Especially compared to synthesizers produced in large quantities.

For the consumer just looking at the price tag, it is all overpriced. Why do you think there is such a large DIY community? Those who have more time than money choose to build themselves because modular to purchase built is very expensive.
cbm
I guess I'm confused about how the word "overpriced" is being used in this thread.

Are things overpriced because of small market size? This will never be a mass-production market, so economies of scale are hard to achieve. In selling Buchla compatible products, Eardrill is a niche on the end of a niche. I sell twenty of some modules. This means that fixed costs like board layouts have to be amortized over a very small number.

Are things overpriced because they are more than someone wants to pay? There are modular products at a pretty wide range of features & prices. Pick the system that best fits your needs & budget. And if you can squint hard enough to make your time free, there's always DIY.

Are things overpriced because someone is raking in the profit? I don't know anyone who is getting rich on selling modulars. Certainly there's more profit in some systems than others, but is there a % profit which pushes one into the "overpriced" camp?

--

I think that traditional economic analysis falls apart with a tiny business like modular manufacturing. From a financial POV, I think most people would be better off making boutique fuzz tones. I'm glad that there are enough people who are passionate about modulars to allow for the current modular renaissance.
noobyscooby
If you don't go DIY, it's all expensive, regardless of format. That's all I was getting at. But from a consumer perspective, especially one who is not a modular enthusiast, one just looks at the price and thinks all that for that.

But it is all worth it for me.
divisionbyzero
noobyscooby wrote:
Here's a fucking newsflash. It's ALL overpriced. Euro and 5U too. Like other boutique industries we are willing to pay premiums for handmade, limited items.

many euro/5u modules aren't handmade or limited (dotcom and probably every euro manufacturer using smd comes to mind). buchla stuff made after 2005-ish is not handmade or limited. if you have a day job your time is probably more valuable than the time you can buy from a stuffing house to assemble your modules.

and i don't think most modulars are overpriced, at least in the euro/5u realm. for $2k you can get a nice 3 oscillator synth ala a minimoog with the added benefits of patchability, modularity, etc. add a cheap midi keyboard and you're there, much cheaper than a used voyager (i'm not saying the voyager is overpriced, it's awesome, just making a point).

otoh buchla/serge/wiard is expensive, and there reasons for each of those that have been gone over in numerous threads. euro/5u tend to have lower r&d cost relative to the aforementioned brands, especially since a large percentage of the market is just copies of older designs (do we need another ms20/moog/ob filter? another vca? the market says yes).
Entrainer


$1499

Overpriced.
noobyscooby
Entrainer wrote:


$1499

Overpriced.


I have lots of Serge but there's a reason I've never bought a Gator. $1499 for a slope and some basic clock modules. Uh no.

The TKB, Blue Voice, Quadslope and Mayhem (all bought used averaged for about 70% of new) for me represent better value for my money.
noobyscooby
divisionbyzero wrote:


and i don't think most modulars are overpriced, at least in the euro/5u realm. for $2k you can get a nice 3 oscillator synth ala a minimoog with the added benefits of patchability, modularity, etc. add a cheap midi keyboard and you're there, much cheaper than a used voyager (i'm not saying the voyager is overpriced, it's awesome, just making a point)


Patchability comes at a high price. I don't find any built modular inexpensive. Should it be expensive compared to standalone analog synths?

I'm just saying for arguments sake. I have an asston of modular.
7thDanSound
Everything is overpriced if you don't want to buy it at that price. To some people wine at $1000 a bottle is a bargain while for some it's overpriced. It's fermented grape juice for chrissake! There is no rationale in pricing other than "what am I willing to pay for this". There's always someone who'll tell you you payed too much for whatever you bought. But is that shiny new Lamborghini just transportation or something else?

I say spend less time arguing about this nonsense and more time having fun with what you deemed worth your hard earned, no matter where you chose to put it.
ersatzplanet
These are the same arguments you see in the Apple vs PC debates. Statements about something being "not worth it" or "overpriced". Worth is totally subjective. Sure you can say that modules with the same exact functions but cost quite a bit different make that easier but there are other factors like ergonomics etc that play into the definition of "worth" that are very personal and very different for each player. I can't tell you how many discussions I have had with PC owners telling me that Apple machines are not with it, while they sit there wearing +$100 designer jeans and expensive sneakers and printed tee shirts all 3 times more than I would ever spen on mine. To them those things are "worth it". Not to me.

So when ANYONE says something is not "worth it" they are ALWAYS saying "Not worth it to me" because there is NO OTHER WAY of saying it.
cbm
noobyscooby wrote:
But it is all worth it for me.

Oh... so it's not overpriced.
divisionbyzero
noobyscooby wrote:
divisionbyzero wrote:


and i don't think most modulars are overpriced, at least in the euro/5u realm. for $2k you can get a nice 3 oscillator synth ala a minimoog with the added benefits of patchability, modularity, etc. add a cheap midi keyboard and you're there, much cheaper than a used voyager (i'm not saying the voyager is overpriced, it's awesome, just making a point)


Patchability comes at a high price. I don't find any built modular inexpensive. Should it be expensive compared to standalone analog synths?

with the moog example i'm saying you can make a modular synth with greater functionality than a standalone synth at a better price, as long as patching is something you want (many would and do pay more to avoid it).
Entrainer
ersatzplanet wrote:

So when ANYONE says something is not "worth it" they are ALWAYS saying "Not worth it to me" because there is NO OTHER WAY of saying it.


True. Easy to be dismissive about it though. "Eh, that's just your opinion".
Enough of those opinions add up and it becomes death. The "market" is
a collection of individuals making choices.

Monkey puts hand in jar, grabs a lot of grubs, doesn't want to let go...
monkey gets eaten.

So value may be subjective but reality is objective.
cbm
Entrainer wrote:
reality is objective.

How do you figure? :=)
Entrainer
cbm wrote:
Entrainer wrote:
reality is objective.

How do you figure? :=)


Delusion runs rampant. Good point. :=)
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