Differences between Omni and Borg

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thesnow
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Differences between Omni and Borg

Post by thesnow » Wed May 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Does the Omni filter sound different than the Borg low pass filter?

I believe the Omni filter is a low pass filter, so I was just wondering if the Omni filter sounds different than the low pass on the Borg and both have different characters, or is the Borg the same low pass Omni filter plus HP and BP?
Last edited by thesnow on Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fester
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Post by fester » Thu May 17, 2012 9:46 am

The Borg and Omni filters are based on utterly different designs.
Electronically, under the hood, they couldn't be more different.

They don't sound the same.

Also...
(lecture alert!)
The Omni is not just a low pass filter. It is a multimode filter that includes Low Pass, Band Pass, High Pass and "All' Pass (phase shift) modes.
A fairly unique feature of the circuit is that the filter can morph from one mode to the other under voltage control.

It bears mention that Grant figured out how to implement this feature without merely crossfading from one output to another. He actually morphs the internal signal routing so that the core configuration of the filter can change smoothly from one routing to another. This is why the Omni is heavy on internal components and time consuming and expensive to fabricate and calibrate.

To my knowledge Grant is one of the very few designers who figured out how to do accomplish this feat without resorting to crossfading.

thesnow
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Post by thesnow » Thu May 17, 2012 1:14 pm

fester wrote:The Borg and Omni filters are based on utterly different designs.
Electronically, under the hood, they couldn't be more different.

They don't sound the same.

Also...
(lecture alert!)
The Omni is not just a low pass filter. It is a multimode filter that includes Low Pass, Band Pass, High Pass and "All' Pass (phase shift) modes.
A fairly unique feature of the circuit is that the filter can morph from one mode to the other under voltage control.

It bears mention that Grant figured out how to implement this feature without merely crossfading from one output to another. He actually morphs the internal signal routing so that the core configuration of the filter can change smoothly from one routing to another. This is why the Omni is heavy on internal components and time consuming and expensive to fabricate and calibrate.

To my knowledge Grant is one of the very few designers who figured out how to do accomplish this feat without resorting to crossfading.
Thanks and very interesting. I knew I was probably lost in the notion. lecture much appreciated.
Last edited by thesnow on Thu May 24, 2012 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chamomileshark
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Post by chamomileshark » Fri May 18, 2012 5:15 am

I'm waiting to get my hands on an Omni, but the manual indicates the filter mode is under voltage control, for the Borgs they are not.

The Borgs are vactrol based, I don't think the omni is.

There are some demos I think on muff that will allow you to here Borgs and Omni's in low pass mode - they do sound different.
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Norman_Phay

Post by Norman_Phay » Fri May 18, 2012 7:54 am

viewtopic.php?t=24038&highlight=

I made a little sequencer pattern thing a while ago, with the 4 wiard LPF filter sounds showcased, might be interesting?

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chamomileshark
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Post by chamomileshark » Fri May 18, 2012 11:16 am

nice, that was what I was thinking of :)
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Pastoral Music: Mark Ellery Griffiths
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thesnow
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Post by thesnow » Thu May 24, 2012 1:57 am

Norman_Phay wrote:viewtopic.php?t=24038&highlight=

I made a little sequencer pattern thing a while ago, with the 4 wiard LPF filter sounds showcased, might be interesting?
Awesome, thanks for that!

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plord
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Post by plord » Thu May 24, 2012 11:43 am

Just chiming in, the two filters sound different and behave VERY different. From a UI and a "what will I use this for" perspective they are night and day.

The Omni has 4 inputs, summed to mono out, and each pair of inputs 1/2 and 3/4 have a separate attenuator. This offers more control over the inputs than Borgs or Boogies of any stripe, which have a single unattenuated input in 300/Frac land and twin unattenuated 50/50 mixed inputs in Euro.

The Omni has CV inputs for filter mode and also one for resonance (with attn). Killer. It also has 3 exp and 1 lin FM input. It makes a ridiculous sin OSC for wavefolding or as an FM source, the 4 outputs are mono clones of each other. The Borgs have speaker shredding resonance but it sounds to me (never scoped it) like a pretty dirty wave, and obviously the vactrols won't keep up with audio rate CV. The Omni is clean, clean, clean, and will track v/oct like a champ.

thesnow
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Post by thesnow » Thu May 24, 2012 6:04 pm

plord wrote:Just chiming in, the two filters sound different and behave VERY different. From a UI and a "what will I use this for" perspective they are night and day.

The Omni has 4 inputs, summed to mono out, and each pair of inputs 1/2 and 3/4 have a separate attenuator. This offers more control over the inputs than Borgs or Boogies of any stripe, which have a single unattenuated input in 300/Frac land and twin unattenuated 50/50 mixed inputs in Euro.

The Omni has CV inputs for filter mode and also one for resonance (with attn). Killer. It also has 3 exp and 1 lin FM input. It makes a ridiculous sin OSC for wavefolding or as an FM source, the 4 outputs are mono clones of each other. The Borgs have speaker shredding resonance but it sounds to me (never scoped it) like a pretty dirty wave, and obviously the vactrols won't keep up with audio rate CV. The Omni is clean, clean, clean, and will track v/oct like a champ.
Thanks for the additional info, plord. I know, such a silly question. It's just the pdf manual for the omni is not on the wiard website or else of course I would have tried to read that there first. That's why I asked here.

What I also wonder is if the Omni is still built on request?

Anyway, I'm getting closer to being able to place my order for my first set of Wiard modules! Can't wait.

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