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LFO's with delay??????
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author LFO's with delay??????
synthbenji
Hello all,
I was curious if anyone out there knows of LFO modules that have a delay...I noticed that Analogue Solutions make an LFO with delay but that seems to be the only one in euro format. Any others..... seriously, i just don't get it huh?
REwire
Whatchu talkin' bout Willis? hmmm.....

LFO's with Delay? An LFO that delays its triggering, or an LFO that is combined with a delay unit? There's nothing I know of in either of those configurations.
slaughterhousesam
Do you absolutely need it in one module?

You may well already know, so at the risk of stating the obvious there are many ways to acheive this - for example the doepfer quad adsr has gate signals that are output when certain transitions in the envelope are reached that i often use to delay gates. Run the LFO output through a VCA and open it up using delayed gates/envelopes and you should be good. Also Analogue Systems and others have dedicated gate delay modules.
ndkent
I've noticed it on Roland analogs. MC-202 for instance. The modulation doesn't switch in until after an adjustable amount of time.

Don't some MIDI to CV converters have it too? Probably the easiest way to get that done if you have one or are planning to get one? Kenton I think but I'm too lazy to check.

I've also thought why it's not included as special feature. Patching it could get somewhat involved if you want it to start after a delay at 0° and not disappear until the sound has decayed.

That's the complex part some people are missing when they say just use a gate delay, using one alone will cause the LFO vanishes on the release stage. But it also has to be absent for the next envelope start



Doepfer suggests using a Trigger delay module and a VCA with a slew module to generate an AR envelope from the gate, but the new delayed gate 10 only lasts for 10 seconds so your modulation would end at that point.

I was thinking along the lines of using a VC toggle switch switching between nothing and the LFO. You'd need to get it to switch out the LFO with a trigger from the original gate then send a second delayed trigger to reset the LFO and switch it in. The goal really is to mute the modulation between a new gate and the delay time for the LFO.
slaughterhousesam
if you are looking for lfo delay facilties it sounds like it would be for keyboard related work as opposed to drones. the problem of the lfo modulation running out doesnt really apply, surely? you just use a longer release time on either the delayed gate triggered envelope or by slewing the gate itself. as long as the main audio vca release time is shorter, the sound will fade out long before the lfo modulation does. as for resetting the envelope in time for the next note thats dependant on the retriggering options of the env module.

some of my friends who have come round for a play with my modular have a little trouble getting used to the idea that the oscillators (including lfos) dont ever stop oscillating, but thats the idea - level control is the job for a vca, not for the oscillator.
REwire
ndkent wrote:
Don't some MIDI to CV converters have it too? Probably the easiest way to get that done if you have one or are planning to get one? Kenton I think but I'm too lazy to check.


The Kenton ProSolo can generate an LFO when you use your mod wheel, like the Minimoog and Prophet 5. I always liked the way the Juno 6/60 had a delay amount before the LFO comes in.

I tried running an LFO into a VCA then into my Osc FM but when you slowly open the VCA, it does not gradually bring in the LFO, but control the voltage amount of the LFO from real slow to full speed when the VCA is fully open. Works better when I use a voltage processor like the m14 or A-138c.
haven
trigger delay into AD or ADSR - Envelope modulates a VCA that the LFO is going through.

Every LFO with delay I have every used is essentially this combo - usually a simple fade in or fade out with adjustable delay time
BugBrand
There's a couple of Thomas Henry designs which offer LFO delay (if I remember right)

Think it is the 'SuperController' from Build a Better Music Synth
& there's also one a bit more up-to-date in the Anlog Synth for the 21st century.

Have a look at the EM Thomas Henry Forum

Seems like MagicSmoke are making PCBs available - maybe they'd do a module?
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29492
http://modularsynthesis.com/magicsmoke/as21c-lfo/lfo.htm
(there's a 5u module pictured on this page)
ndkent
haven wrote:
trigger delay into AD or ADSR - Envelope modulates a VCA that the LFO is going through.

Every LFO with delay I have every used is essentially this combo - usually a simple fade in or fade out with adjustable delay time


Will only work if your subsequent new note events are widely spaced from each other. Play one note following another and the LFO will be still present at the start of the second note.

I'm still of the opinion to get it right you have to mute the LFO from the beginning of a new note event until the delay time occurs and give the LFO a reset as you unmute.

Or get a Kenton if you are working with a regular shaped lfo.
robotsounds
ndkent wrote:
haven wrote:
trigger delay into AD or ADSR - Envelope modulates a VCA that the LFO is going through.

Every LFO with delay I have every used is essentially this combo - usually a simple fade in or fade out with adjustable delay time


Will only work if your subsequent new note events are widely spaced from each other. Play one note following another and the LFO will be still present at the start of the second note.

I'm still of the opinion to get it right you have to mute the LFO from the beginning of a new note event until the delay time occurs and give the LFO a reset as you unmute.

Or get a Kenton if you are working with a regular shaped lfo.


I am pretty sure the original Roland LFO delays, found on their 100M and many of their keyboards are intended to work where the delay is only on the first note (at least this is my impression from the Roland patching manual).

'The delay effect is triggered by the keyboard gate pulse rather than the keyboard trigger pulse, so the delay effect occurs only on the first note of any passage played legato' - Page 26, Practical Synthesis for Electronic Music, Roland
FatKingTubby
I've never tried this module myself, but I believe this is what you're looking for.

Doepfer A-147-2 "Voltage Controlled Delayed LFO"

robotsounds

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Just another rookie
The delay on the 147-2 doesn’t delay the lfo.
It is really 3 modules strapped together.

The lfo is the freq and cv knob with the four waveform outputs.
Reset and cv jacks and att or pol switch (Cv mode)

The vca is a vca! Normalled input to triangle wave and normalled cv input to delay out. Att or pol switch (vca mode)

The delay section behaves more like an attack on an adsr.
Rise time controlled by delay knob. Cv delay input.
Reset input and delay output.

It’s a pretty good module but I don’t think it is what you are after.
mother misty
Mutable Instruments Stages comes to mind as a module that can do this.
flashheart
10 years & 4 months thread resurrection - must be some kind of record. applause
BananaPlug
Quote:
10 years & 4 months thread resurrection - must be some kind of record.

Also, the original poster, synthbenji, abandoned it for all that time. Whatever.
deftinwulf
Just another rookie wrote:
The delay on the 147-2 doesn’t delay the lfo.
It is really 3 modules strapped together.

The lfo is the freq and cv knob with the four waveform outputs.
Reset and cv jacks and att or pol switch (Cv mode)

The vca is a vca! Normalled input to triangle wave and normalled cv input to delay out. Att or pol switch (vca mode)

The delay section behaves more like an attack on an adsr.
Rise time controlled by delay knob. Cv delay input.
Reset input and delay output.

It’s a pretty good module but I don’t think it is what you are after.


That's honestly so strange to me... When I first saw the 147-2, I figured that Roland-style "delayed onset LFO" must be exactly what Doepfer was going for. I'm really having a hard time understanding what is even the point of the "delay" as you have described it... It's just a lag generator for incoming CV to the other sections of the LFO? Or...? hmmm.....
dubonaire
deftinwulf wrote:
Just another rookie wrote:
The delay on the 147-2 doesn’t delay the lfo.
It is really 3 modules strapped together.

The lfo is the freq and cv knob with the four waveform outputs.
Reset and cv jacks and att or pol switch (Cv mode)

The vca is a vca! Normalled input to triangle wave and normalled cv input to delay out. Att or pol switch (vca mode)

The delay section behaves more like an attack on an adsr.
Rise time controlled by delay knob. Cv delay input.
Reset input and delay output.

It’s a pretty good module but I don’t think it is what you are after.


That's honestly so strange to me... When I first saw the 147-2, I figured that Roland-style "delayed onset LFO" must be exactly what Doepfer was going for. I'm really having a hard time understanding what is even the point of the "delay" as you have described it... It's just a lag generator for incoming CV to the other sections of the LFO? Or...? hmmm.....


Despite that this is a 10 year old thread revival, the purpose of the delay is to create something like increasing tremolo.
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