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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

My first panel designs
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author My first panel designs
panda30y
I bought 4x Toppobrillo's 281 pcbs and 4x Thomas White's 292 pcbs recently to go with my microscopic frac system and to later complement the Best of CGS panel I should be receiving courtesy of Zthee.

I'm bananifying my frac system, but I wanted to keep the aesthetics consistent in my frac case, so I made the panels black following the Blacet design, but I might redesign everything to fit the Serge coloring scheme used in the best of cgs panel. What are your thoughts?

I might split this into two panels, but all 4 281 boards are in the back. I was thinking I might save FPE costs if I made it one panel.


I plan on making at least 3 of these to use 3 of my 292 boards, but I'm not sure based on concerns of space and I can just order another when I'm ready.

I'm still tinkering with the idea of what to put on the bottom left hands corner. I originally had the names of the people who spearheaded the projects (toppo and thomas white), but my friend said I should just put my name there since I was building and designing the face plate... hmmm.....
I just felt it was a nice gesture if I did put their names on it, since they did the hard work in.

Well any design suggestions are welcome and wanted. Thanks.

***EDIT***
This other thread I started is also related to this thread and discusses how these panels will fit into my system. LINK
***EDIT***
Roycie Roller
They are nice layouts. I'd recommend building one 292 circuit first before you get your LPG panel made & experimenting with 1, 2 & 3 inputs for both audio & cv, so you get an idea of how the circuit behaves differently.
I built mine firstly with 3 inputs of each, but cut it back to 2 of each because i found the vactrol 'decay' gets muddied up easily, and becomes hard to work with.
I think it would be more useful to mix 3 separate LPG outputs together, than to mix 3-6 signals into a single LPG.
You might find single inputs are enough & do a one-space frac panel with a triple circuit, and keep the full-blown version as a 2nd module as well.
panda30y
Roycie Roller wrote:
They are nice layouts. I'd recommend building one 292 circuit first before you get your LPG panel made & experimenting with 1, 2 & 3 inputs for both audio & cv, so you get an idea of how the circuit behaves differently.
I built mine firstly with 3 inputs of each, but cut it back to 2 of each because i found the vactrol 'decay' gets muddied up easily, and becomes hard to work with.
I think it would be more useful to mix 3 separate LPG outputs together, than to mix 3-6 signals into a single LPG.
You might find single inputs are enough & do a one-space frac panel with a triple circuit, and keep the full-blown version as a 2nd module as well.


Is it muddied up because of the extra input jack or because you are trying to mix 3 signals? I want all of them full blown because I want the option to leave it completely open in vca mode and just use it as a 3 input mixer, but if I were to make one with single inputs it would perhaps solve a space issue I'm having with my system I'm planning. Thanks for the advice!
Roycie Roller
panda30y wrote:
Roycie Roller wrote:
They are nice layouts. I'd recommend building one 292 circuit first before you get your LPG panel made & experimenting with 1, 2 & 3 inputs for both audio & cv, so you get an idea of how the circuit behaves differently.
I built mine firstly with 3 inputs of each, but cut it back to 2 of each because i found the vactrol 'decay' gets muddied up easily, and becomes hard to work with.
I think it would be more useful to mix 3 separate LPG outputs together, than to mix 3-6 signals into a single LPG.
You might find single inputs are enough & do a one-space frac panel with a triple circuit, and keep the full-blown version as a 2nd module as well.


Is it muddied up because of the extra input jack or because you are trying to mix 3 signals? I want all of them full blown because I want the option to leave it completely open in vca mode and just use it as a 3 input mixer, but if I were to make one with single inputs it would perhaps solve a space issue I'm having with my system I'm planning. Thanks for the advice!


I just read your other post, and if you make a couple of the single LPG's, you'll definitely have enough space for the woggle (which is LPG'y at some settings too!)...and the woggle easily fits in one frac panel, with some coersion razz .
As far as the 'muddiness' goes, there isn't a great deal of difference between the modes of Filter, Both & VCA...it is still a vactrol VCA that the sound is passing through, so there's that 'rounding' of the sound which, in my experience, albiet basic, is hard to control with multiple inputs. VCA's being in a way attenuators, i guess ideally you want to be able to refine the sound a lot, & i'm not sure vactrols are the best thing for the job? I find mixing 6 signals into a single LPG like trying to close your arms around a giant blob of jelly and get it into a small bowl Dead Banana
For mixers, you could build a few of Ken's DC mixers into the ears of your racks.
werock
On the 292, I'd be inclined to swap the position of the Res/Freq pots, but I guess that's down to personal taste. But I like your design - I'm toying with frac designs for my 292 board that hopefully will turn up any day now, so you've given me some good ideas. 8_)
panda30y
werock wrote:
On the 292, I'd be inclined to swap the position of the Res/Freq pots, but I guess that's down to personal taste. But I like your design - I'm toying with frac designs for my 292 board that hopefully will turn up any day now, so you've given me some good ideas. 8_)


I've toyed with them both, but I felt the resonance should be isolated to the left because it was a modification and not one of the core functions of the module.

Also Roycie, good suggestions with the rack ear cv mixers. I'll look into designing 2 292 boards behind a 2 frac space panel. But I want to get further confirmation on how the 292 functions with all 3 audio inputs first before I decide to go this route.
sduck
Very nice! I don't really like the little lines connecting the out jacks - they don't really make sense. Same with the cv[-]. Just my opinion though. Otherwise all's fine!
consumed
about the 281 design--its a good start

first: your pots on the top and bottom of your design are probably not going to clear the frac rails
so that should be your biggest concern

regarding the design:

the quad switch affects the relationship of the A and B outputs
i would discourage you from putting the quad switch in line with the peak output
since it would appear to have something specific to do with the peak out

one more thing--the "quad mix" pot is really an "add B to the mix" pot
panda30y
Hmm... maybe I'll try them without the lines. I understand how the modules work, the relationship between the jacks just sort of made sense organizing it that way in my head.

Also, my pots should clear the rail. I based them off of the actual blacet measurements and the placement of my pots are exactly where they are placed on the binary zone. The actual pot will have a smaller radius than the knob, and I've printed up the panel in scale on paper and eyed it against my rack.

One other thought I had, if I were to combine two 292 boards behind a 2 frac panel, I would probably try to fit a sum output between boards with a bi-polar pot to mix between the two signals like the plan b model 13 design. I might not do it, but it's an interesting thought.
Luka
i was going to made a quad 281 panel but it really seemed to take up a lot of space so i went dual instead. it means if you ever need some more space and are not using the 4 AR generators you can pull 2 out.
panda30y
Luka wrote:
i was going to made a quad 281 panel but it really seemed to take up a lot of space so i went dual instead. it means if you ever need some more space and are not using the 4 AR generators you can pull 2 out.


It was pretty difficult to come up with a great quad panel, so I ended up making it 2 dual panels smashed together. If this was 4U it would've have been extremely easy, as Buchla already has a fantastic design in place. I've been terribly tempted to just design everything in 4U to go with my CGS panel, and convert my blacet modules to 4U.
consumed
panda30y wrote:
Also, my pots should clear the rail. I based them off of the actual blacet measurements and the placement of my pots are exactly where they are placed on the binary zone. The actual pot will have a smaller radius than the knob, and I've printed up the panel in scale on paper and eyed it against my rack.


ok very good then
what pots are you using?
i would encourage you to order all your panel components and make a "fake" frontpanel on cardboard to scale
you will find out immediately if you've made a mistake in calculation
sometimes you will find that the spacing doesnt feel right too
panda30y
Here are two updated images of the 292 panels. I think on second thought that the summed outputs would be difficult to fit into this design unless I took out the resonance mod, which is what makes this project unique (or more so).


Single LPG Full Features

Dual LPG
panda30y
consumed wrote:
panda30y wrote:
Also, my pots should clear the rail. I based them off of the actual blacet measurements and the placement of my pots are exactly where they are placed on the binary zone. The actual pot will have a smaller radius than the knob, and I've printed up the panel in scale on paper and eyed it against my rack.


ok very good then
what pots are you using?
i would encourage you to order all your panel components and make a "fake" frontpanel on cardboard to scale
you will find out immediately if you've made a mistake in calculation
sometimes you will find that the spacing doesnt feel right too


I'm using alpha 12mm pots. They should just barely make it. I will take your advice though, just to make sure. If I have to I can nudge everything in a few millimeters, and I might do that to be on the safe side, but I've tried to measure everything out from datasheets and placing everything in the images by precise measurements. The panasonic pots that blacet uses are about 9.7mm, so I'm jumping about 3.3mm.
consumed
Roycie Roller wrote:
They are nice layouts. I'd recommend building one 292 circuit first before you get your LPG panel made & experimenting with 1, 2 & 3 inputs for both audio & cv, so you get an idea of how the circuit behaves differently.
I built mine firstly with 3 inputs of each, but cut it back to 2 of each because i found the vactrol 'decay' gets muddied up easily, and becomes hard to work with.
I think it would be more useful to mix 3 separate LPG outputs together, than to mix 3-6 signals into a single LPG.
You might find single inputs are enough & do a one-space frac panel with a triple circuit, and keep the full-blown version as a 2nd module as well.


thanks for mentioning this. im working on this design right now
im trying to imagine why id want three audio ins and three cv ins
in this case i do think that perhaps two of each, both with attenuators, will be good
consumed
panda30y wrote:
I'm using alpha 12mm pots. They should just barely make it. I will take your advice though, just to make sure. If I have to I can nudge everything in a few millimeters, and I might do that to be on the safe side, but I've tried to measure everything out from datasheets and placing everything in the images by precise measurements. The panasonic pots that blacet uses are about 9.7mm, so I'm jumping about 3.3mm.


i havent seen the alpha 12mm, just the 9mm and the 16mm
EDIT i see the 12mm at mouser now!
i almost always use the 16mm for my projects
panda30y
consumed wrote:
panda30y wrote:
I'm using alpha 12mm pots. They should just barely make it. I will take your advice though, just to make sure. If I have to I can nudge everything in a few millimeters, and I might do that to be on the safe side, but I've tried to measure everything out from datasheets and placing everything in the images by precise measurements. The panasonic pots that blacet uses are about 9.7mm, so I'm jumping about 3.3mm.


i havent seen the alpha 12mm, just the 9mm and the 16mm
EDIT i see the 12mm at mouser now!
i almost always use the 16mm for my projects


I'm just concerned about the power rating on the 12mm pots. It's only 1/12 watt, and I don't know if this should be a concern.
Roycie Roller
You could definitely get rid of 1 of the attenuator pots for audio input (on the 292).
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