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Potential of The Harvestman Transcontinental Rails for 200e
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author Potential of The Harvestman Transcontinental Rails for 200e
momo
This seems to be bubbling away on the horizon at Harvestman HQ



Though not in paper form I presume razz So will it allow the 200e to be fluent across the Euro format? Vice versa? Has Volta stolen it's thunder somewhat? I had a daydream yesterday of interfacing a Hertz Donut with a 200e eek!

I'd love to hear more from those more knowledgeable than I. Thanks in advance!
science
SlayerBadger!
science
If this ends up being what it appears that it will be to me, Volta can "suck it". Using a computer for anything more than MIDI sequencing kind of ruins the whole modular experience for me.
LDT
How does Volta enter this picture? I thought the Transcontinental Rails was for interfacing Buchla with 1v/oct stuff like euro modulars. Not?
dougcl
science wrote:
If this ends up being what it appears that it will be to me, Volta can "suck it". Using a computer for anything more than MIDI sequencing kind of ruins the whole modular experience for me.


Agreed. I refuse to use a computer at all with the modular.
science
LDT wrote:
How does Volta enter this picture? I thought the Transcontinental Rails was for interfacing Buchla with 1v/oct stuff like euro modulars. Not?

I think they just meant that Volta can control both Buchla 1.2v/oct stuff and euro 1v/oct at the same time, which gives you a small amount of cross compatibility in that you can get the two systems to track together. Still doesn't really do much else though.

The Transcontinental Rails are far more capable as far as I can tell from what little I know of the capabilities of the module, and would offer true integration.
science
Perfect timing on this module as well... now I'm even more excited about my incoming 200e, and definitely won't be ditching most of my euro gear as I was already starting to consider doing.
prscrptn
momo wrote:
This seems to be bubbling away on the horizon at Harvestman HQ





I have been waiting for this module to become a reality...
science
...and one more thing since I can't edit posts. I can see this creating a lot more business for B&A, since it would now make a lot more sense for people to buy a 2 or 4 panel boat of Buchla modules to use with their euro systems - and not having to commit to a $10k+ purchase.
citizen mori
i know a secret... whistlin'
felix
A big advantage to the TCR for me would be the adjustment of audio levels back and forth.

CV scaling is one thing (and the argument how Volta or some such other CV-generating device could fill in) is one thing, but audio levels back and forth is *very* convenient.
ex_dead_teenager
citizen mori wrote:
i know a secret... whistlin'


I think I might know the same secret and it's awsome.
science
I know someone wants to fill me in. Secrets suck waah
ex_dead_teenager
All good things to those who wait. I don't want to steal Scott's thunder, also I'm not certain I know as much as Citizen Mori and I like surprises. 8_)
momo
science wrote:
I can see this creating a lot more business for B&A, since it would now make a lot more sense for people to buy a 2 or 4 panel boat of Buchla modules to use with their euro systems - and not having to commit to a $10k+ purchase.


And here was I thinking this would be one of the more niche modules out there, I hadn't even considered the equation the other way around.
citizen mori
felix wrote:
A big advantage to the TCR for me would be the adjustment of audio levels back and forth.

CV scaling is one thing (and the argument how Volta or some such other CV-generating device could fill in) is one thing, but audio levels back and forth is *very* convenient.


unfortunately the only concern is not scaling... it is critical to protect the 200e from excessive cv.
authorless
i have been looking at some of those 200e modules. and was just on the buchla website the other day trying to decide what i would get to fill a four or six panel boat.

...and i have a friend with a 200 and an easel... i feel this module is manditory for me.
authorless
also! you could use this to convert audio to cv in the 200e, no? can it handle audio-rate modulation?
science
Asked Scott about this module today in an e-mail regarding some repair work I'm having done on my Tyme Sefari, and it sounds like we won't be seeing it for quite some time waah
2012
excellent module!
NV
It's been in development for quite a long time. The photo was originally posted over two years ago here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nakedintruder/415164127/

I think it is a fantastic idea and one of the crucial missing links in a Buchla system. I figured Scott had simply abandoned the idea after so long, so I'm curious to hear what the "secret" people are mentioning turns out to be.
kkonkkrete
Is it just me, or is the idea of getting a handful of Buchla modules to wire into the spider's web that is a typical Euro system somewhat missing the point of the 200e?

I think half the beauty of the Electronic Music Box concept is that it is a self contained instrument.
2012
kkonkkrete wrote:

I think half the beauty of the Electronic Music Box concept is that it is a self contained instrument.


with patching limits
Lyonel
citizen mori wrote:
unfortunately the only concern is not scaling... it is critical to protect the 200e from excessive cv.


Could you please develop on that, citizen ?
Has a future and newbie user, i am involved and afraid about bad amateurish patching.
Overloading CV ins (mixing CVs without 210e) could be disastrous ? ambulance
Thanks
2012
Its when patching 200e with non-200e systems u could damage eventualy your 30k 200e Lyonel.

But the problem ist that u could get interesting results by feedbacking on the 200e self like feeding the output from one filter into his own or another cv input for example,thats not possible due to the differend cv/audio connections used in the system,so an adapter panel could resolve this.

an adapter panel that does the conversion + cv limitting & canceling DC spikes would be ideal to extend sounddesign on a 200e on his own and interconected with other diy or retail modules.
ndkent
I think the point being made that one of the reasons Buchla's audio is miniplugs and CV bananas is, unlike say Serge, the audio is at a very different level than the CV... and the CV is not bipolar in terms of range. That's something not addressed here.

So really, while this is more efficient than using an attenuator to get 1.2 down to 1.0 and a stock CV mixer to add a 20% attenuated signal onto a 100% signal to get 1.2v you are only getting a partial solution in a module.
Not that I wouldn't get one if offered.

Oh and I also don't get why Volta would change a big picture rather than merely augment things a little in this case. I mean the 200e could always operate over MIDI for better or worse and Volta is a potentially valuable additional CV generator & DAW link but has limited potential when you want to connect a module to another module
Lyonel
2012 wrote:
Its when patching 200e with non-200e systems


I see ; But what about pure CV, for example, two 281e pulses perfectly sync = 20V short spike ;
Or multi 261e Modulation CV's merged with crests quite over 10V... any danger here ?
Forgive please, what must be very newbee inquiry. hmmm.....
cbm
Lyonel wrote:
But what about pure CV, for example, two 281e pulses perfectly sync = 20V short spike

You will never get beyond the rails of the op-amps used, which in the Buchla is +/- 15 V.

Further, if you are combining 281e pulses by stacking the outputs together, you will only get the largest pulse at a time. The pulse outputs on the Buchla system are isolated by a diode, so all the pulses can "pile on" in a "wire or."

Quote:
Or multi 261e Modulation CV's merged with crests quite over 10V... any danger here ?

Not for a well designed module.

- C
Lyonel
cbm wrote:
Lyonel wrote:
But what about pure CV, for example, two 281e pulses perfectly sync = 20V short spike

You will never get beyond the rails of the op-amps used, which in the Buchla is +/- 15 V.

Further, if you are combining 281e pulses by stacking the outputs together, you will only get the largest pulse at a time. The pulse outputs on the Buchla system are isolated by a diode, so all the pulses can "pile on" in a "wire or."

Quote:
Or multi 261e Modulation CV's merged with crests quite over 10V... any danger here ?

Not for a well designed module.

- C

thumbs up
science
kkonkkrete wrote:
Is it just me, or is the idea of getting a handful of Buchla modules to wire into the spider's web that is a typical Euro system somewhat missing the point of the 200e?

I think half the beauty of the Electronic Music Box concept is that it is a self contained instrument.

I agree to an extent, but there are definitely a few modules out in the world of euro that I would like to be able to integrate with my 200e system when it arrives. If a module like this didn't come around, chances are I'd just end up selling my whole euro system for more Buchla modules not too far down the road.

I see this no differently than I see modules like the ZOe being produced for the 200e. It would be great to be able to use modules like the upcoming Hertz Donut and Piston Honda with the 200e... and I can't say I'd be disappointed about having some cheaper oscillators available to me, either.

All personal preference I guess.
prscrptn
I have never felt limited by the 200e, but incorporating modules from Harvestman or Livewire would be great!
citizen mori
cbm wrote:
You will never get beyond the rails of the op-amps used, which in the Buchla is +/- 15 V.

Further, if you are combining 281e pulses by stacking the outputs together, you will only get the largest pulse at a time. The pulse outputs on the Buchla system are isolated by a diode, so all the pulses can "pile on" in a "wire or."

- C


i should have elaborated, but chris is as usual dead on here.

within the 200e it is not an issue, as the system is designed to manage this well. it is specifically the issue of foreign devices which may have voltage limits far exceeding the e-series psu. a +17v trigger can kill an e-series module (this is speaking from experience).

within the e-series you are free to stack and mix to your heart's content.

insofar as conversion of voltages, it is about elegance, easy workflow without fuss- most euro envelopes are 0-8v, this will not kick open a 292e fully. euro triggers are not mixed trigger+gate as in the e-series, so this needs to be provided. there are other nuances as well...

2012 wrote:
But the problem ist that u could get interesting results by feedbacking on the 200e self like feeding the output from one filter into his own or another cv input for example,thats not possible due to the differend cv/audio connections used in the system,so an adapter panel could resolve this.

an adapter panel that does the conversion + cv limitting & canceling DC spikes would be ideal to extend sounddesign on a 200e on his own and interconected with other diy or retail modules.


unnecessary, for the reasons chris described, and, because of the thoughtful design of the instrument: the 291e offers both banana and minijack modulation inputs. the modulation oscillators on both 259e and 261e provide both minijack and banana outputs.
citizen mori
kkonkkrete wrote:
Is it just me, or is the idea of getting a handful of Buchla modules to wire into the spider's web that is a typical Euro system somewhat missing the point of the 200e?

I think half the beauty of the Electronic Music Box concept is that it is a self contained instrument.


the buchla instruments and studio systems have always been designed with other equipment and instrumentation in mind. early systems had facilities for interaction with tape machines, there has always been envelope followers present (130, 208, 227e, 230, 227e) and even more sophisticated devices such as the 232 and the sili-con... the 225e devotes most of itself to midi input!
2012
citizen mori wrote:
2012 wrote:
But the problem ist blah,blah,blatterblah..


unnecessary, for the reasons chris described, and, because of the thoughtful design of the instrument: the 291e offers both banana and minijack modulation inputs. the modulation oscillators on both 259e and 261e provide both minijack and banana outputs.


Ow.thanks for the info that is great news,i most have overlook that when analizing 200e pics,din't see it on the filter. thumbs up
cbm
2012 wrote:
thanks for the info that is great news,i most have overlook that when analizing 200e pics,din't see it on the filter. thumbs up

The audio rate modulation section on the filter is surprisingly deep. For each filter, for each step, you can set modulation destination and amount.
2012
o cool,10x Chris!
NV
kkonkkrete wrote:
Is it just me, or is the idea of getting a handful of Buchla modules to wire into the spider's web that is a typical Euro system somewhat missing the point of the 200e?

I think half the beauty of the Electronic Music Box concept is that it is a self contained instrument.


I suppose that's one way to look at it, but I think a closed system view does little more than impose artificial restrictions upon the possibilities of the instrument. I think there is beauty behind the fact that a guitar can be played by itself and produce an entire song, but that doesn't mean that I see some sort of puritanical issue with running it through an amplifier or effects to achieve unique timbres.

As comprehensive and capable as a 200e system is, there are still modules out there that you cannot replicate within a 200e system as of yet. I see no problem with a 200e user wishing to incorporate the positive aspects of others systems into their 200e system, nor do I see any issue with a person who already owns a modular synthesizer in a different format wishing to incorporate it with their 200e to create an even more flexible and capable instrument on both sides.
ndkent
I personally feel there is nothing wrong with wanting to integrate other gear. I guess the point a lot of people are chiming in about is some people seem to take this as some sort of key to connect up everything, like you couldn't do it until this comes out, if it comes out.

What you really have is what's probably a good tool to make some things easier than prior solutions and leave some things unsolved.
science
I take it as a way to simplify connecting everything.
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