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200e BUG REPORTING/TESTING v30 &higher only
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge  
Author 200e BUG REPORTING/TESTING v30 &higher only
Kent
1) The creation of this thread is driven solely by the desire to have a publicly accessible and verifiable list of 'known' and 'suspected' issues that other 200e owners can search and verify.

2) Please post any technical issues here for others to verify. I'll add them to the 2nd post in this thread. I'll appended the following legends as we go along:

• Nothing will be appended to initial reports. This is so that non-'verified' cases are 'current' as soon as they are reported and can be considered to be open to verification by those with the time to do so. Once a user reports an issue as 'verified', I'll append this to the list.
• "Verified" - For use when an issue is confirmed on a 2nd independent 200e system. If possible, I'll add the MW handle or initials of the person who verified the issue.
• "Confirmed" - When a bug is confirmed by the good lads at B&A/B.E.M.I. although I don't expect an official presence or acknowledgement of such here. This is a user forum.
• "Resolved.Reporting Error." - When a report is found to be inaccurate and is subsequently reported as such by others and confirmed as user-error by the original poster.
Hopefully, a short note as to what the issue was can be added so as to help others in their troubleshooting. This will also hold true if it is a problem unique to a system requiring service.
• "Resolved. date/firmwarev3x.x or HW Upgrade" - When B&A/B.E.M.I. fixes an issue via Firmware or Hardware updates.
• "Feature Requests" have been given their own thread via this link.
Please appended your Firmware Version to your post. This will at least encourage everyone to verify that they have the latest versions installed on their systems.

All of the above is open to peer-review as to its perceived effectiveness and merit. Drop me a line in order to discuss.
==============
Kent
Voice Allocation/Stealing with 223e when used Polyphonically.

See the above link for a full description. In short, keys that are not assigned to groups will steal a voice when touched. Unfortunately, the "R" & "S" Joysticks will do this as well thus making it impossible to correctly modulate the sustained voices with the "R" or "S" pads.
Firmware 30.1

===

Storing a preset will halt the 200e's response to MIDI Beat Clock (MBC). This will necessitate pressing 'Play' again on the device that is generating MBC.
One will notice that the blue LED on the 292e will stop flashing, an installed 250e will halt & a 225e will cease to generate clock divisions.

Unfortunately, there is also the more minor [yet still live-performance sabotaging] effect of the changing of presets causing MBC to momentarily pause. It simply throws off the timing.
Firmware 31.8 on the 225e Preset Manager.

===

"Verified"
Updating 259e oscillators to v30.x is error-prone.

My 259e locked up completely during my migration to v30.x in my system. Another forum member managed to crash both of his 259e modules and they are currently locked up and need service.
Both of us followed the provided instructions precisely and, in both cases, only our 259e modules froze.

===

291e stages set to "Pulse" do not morph to new settings.
Please click the link to read more.
Firmware v30.1

===
Verified Kent
259e Jitter on External CV Inputs
Firmware 30.8
sersch
Kent wrote:
Storing a preset will halt the 200e's response to MIDI Beat Clock (MBC). This will necessitate pressing 'Play' again on the device that is generating MBC.
One will notice that the blue LED on the 292e will stop flashing, an installed 250e will halt & a 225e will cease to generate clock divisions.

Unfortunately, there is also the more minor [yet still live-performance sabotaging] effect of the changing of presets causing MBC to momentarily pause. It simply throws off the timing.
Firmware 31.8 on the 225e Preset Manager.


Additional info on this one in relation to 251e v30.5:

251e on internal clock:
- keeps timing when recalling preset
- looses timing on storing a preset (pauses for brief moment, sabotaging live performance)

251e sync'd to MIDI clock:
- looses timing on both recalling & storing a preset (pauses for brief moment, sabotaging live performance)

Reported to B&A: June 20, 2012
Kent
291e stages set to "Pulse" do not morph to the settings on the subsequent stage. Here's the setup:

• Send a pulse that fires every 10 seconds into the orange "adv." jack.
• Set the first 3 stages to "Pulse" and set the time to of each to something close to but below 10 seconds. 5-6 seconds is fine.
• Set the 4th stage to "Cycle" and 8 seconds
• Make certain that "A", "B" & "F" are capitalized on every stage and for every filter that you wish to use. In order to keep this simple, let's just use filter "A" in a feedback loop with a TipTop Stackable if you have one. If not, just use a mult or the 210e in order to tap off of the feedback loop.

As the sequencer pulses through the stages, you should notice that only the 4th stage will morph or 'slew' into position. Set the 1st stage to "Sust" and it too will morph as expected.

Stages that are set to "Sustain" or "Cycle" will morph.

Bug or inappropriate user expectation?

Firmware 30.1
dougcl
Verified Kent
===
259e v30.8 exhibits audible pitch jitter.

Run the mod osc in square wave mode, on high. Set the pitch all the way to zero, and the pitch attenuator all the way clockwise.

You should be able to use any cv source to demonstrate the jitter, but a quick easy way is to use the 223e (or 222e). Start with the 223e at 0V. Now increase the CV amount one step at a time. Some steps jitter (one in ten or so). There is a timbre change. Sometimes it sounds like noise mixed in, sometimes more like a beat frequency. It is made obvious by toggling between a jittering step and an adjacent non-jittering step. The timbre change is typically accompanied by a slight perceptual drop in volume.

Once you have this sorted out you can demonstrate the same on the principal oscillator.

EDIT: This is apparently an inherent limitation to both the 259e and the 261e. In either case, the oscillators support a finite set of frequencies. However, at the same time, both oscillators support continuous CV inputs. This means that it is possible to select an unsupported frequency using the frequency CV input. When this happens, the oscillator may jump very rapidly between the two allowed frequencies. This is really only perceivable at lower frequencies. At higher frequencies, the differences are too small to hear. The stepped output from the the 222e/223e exposes the limitation pretty easily at lower frequencies. The workaround is to go to the next CV value (either higher or lower) on the 222e. In other words, some micro tonal work is not possible. I found it very hard to exhibit this phenomena using a true continuous CV source like the 254v or 255. The 259e seems to stabilize around allowed frequencies, but it's probably really just that it is very hard to land an analog value exactly where you want it within the accuracy required.

EDIT2: I put a scope to three 259e's and found consistent results across all three. There is about a 1.02Hz quantization of the pitch. What this means is that over the course of the entire range (about 27.5Hz to 7kHz), all three oscillators had the same allowed frequencies, all of which are about 1.02Hz apart, and they may or may not land on semitones from the chromatic scale. At worst, an allowed frequency will be .5Hz away from a semitone. At best, it will align perfectly. The situation is the same whether you use the big tuning knob, the little trimmer, or external CV (or all three). It also means that two oscillators can only beat against each other at certain frequencies. All of these things become less perceptible at each higher octave, because the number of 1Hz divisions per octave doubles as you go up.

251e v30.7 - Pressing the pulse selection button while a sequencer is playing causes the pulse output to fire.


251e v30.7 - Timing issues. This module still needs work. It seems best in free running mode, but if you try anything fancy like "sync next" it has trouble. For example, set two sequencers to "B A" and pulse both the advance jacks with the same pulse input. Use the Sync Next feature on stage 0 of the first sequencer to reset the second sequencer. Note that the stage numbers on the two sequencers will never align. It is impossible to sync them. If you enable all the pulses on the second sequencer and monitor them, there is a double pulse at the sync point which shouldn't happen.

251e v30.7 Sequencer drift. Two sequencers running at different tempos will fall out of sync pretty quickly even if the tempos are integer multiples of each other. For example, run sequencer A at 120 with a two stage sequence of 1/16th notes. Run sequencer B at 240 with a four stage sequence of 1/16th notes. Configure a pulse on stage 0 (only) in both. The pulses will fall out of time almost immediately. Meanwhile, using the same tempo on both works great.

251e v30.7 - Pulse outputs (try on trans mode) do not consistently fire the 292e in LPF mode (turn the 292e knob all the way down). There are timbre changes and sometimes pulses are inaudible. Compare to 250e or 281e.

251e v30.7 - S&H mode doesn't work. Use a seqencer in dir mode as a CV and pulse input to a second sequencer. Put the second sequencer in S&H mode. Now in the first sequencer set the CV of stage 0 to 0V and the CV of stage 1 to 10V. Now manually change the stages in the first sequencer using a voltage source like the 256e. Every time stage 0 is selected in the first sequencer a different stage is selected in the second sequencer.

251e v30.7 dir and S&H mode do not reach all stages. In dir mode, stages 0-45 can be selected. In S&H mode, stages 1-46 can be selected. Both should be 0-49.

251e v30.7 - Intermittent problems. A preset change or restart will resolve. It's as though the module doesn't get initialized properly.

251e v30.7 - Causes the preset manager "not stored" button to flash for no reason.

291e v30.1 - Debounce on the modulation selection button needs adjustment. It's really hard to make reliable selections. This may have started happening pre v30.

291e v30.1 - Using envelopes on the amplitude and/or frequency inputs leads to random emphasis. Send noise to one of the filters. Monitor the ALL output. Send a steady stream of envelopes to the amplitude CV on that channel. Some strikes are emphasized. Seems to be related to the amount of decay on the envelope. The more decay, the less noticeable.

291e v30.1 - When in Cntrl Voltage mode, the sequencer may briefly illuminate an LED on a stage that has not been voltage selected. When this happens, the filter settings at that stage are also briefly applied. To test this, set up a 251e (or 250e) sequencer with four stages or so. Use the CV out to select stages in the 291e (running in Cntrl Voltage mode). I set mine to select 1, 2, 5 and 6 on the 291e, and then start over. Once every five loops or so, stage 3 blipped as the selected stage returned from 6 to 1. I also found it blipping on stage 2 on the return (between 6 and 1). If you turn the amplitude up on those stages, an audible crackle will happen as that stage is briefly active. Curiously, and as an aside, I found that sending a voltage of 0V to the 291e sequencer CV selected no stage (nothing was active). This seems like a great feature when running the 291e sequencer with an external sequencer.

EDIT: I suppose this happens because the voltage is possibly sampled as it falls from stage 6 to stage 1. Perhaps the best way around this would be to offer a S&H option on the 291e sequencer stage selection.

206e v31.8 - Preset manager. Crashes if you display firmware on 250e C or D. You can test this by trying all four DIP switch settings on the back of the 250e. Only two of them work.

206e v31.8 - Preset manager. Lost a really neat post v30 feature that displayed which module was causing the preset LED to flash. This one went away when the changes were made to allow CV selection of presets.

206e v31.8 - Preset manager. If you use the knob to Save As your preset to another preset, it should update itself so that you are now on that new saved preset, because you are.

206e v31.8 - Preset manager. Audible squawk on preset save. Cropped up at the v30 transition. Maybe this is a problem with the 292e?

210e v30.2 - Debounce on cursor buttons needs adjustment. It tends to fly past the selection you want, making you go all the way around again. I can't remember if this is v30 only. I think so.

259e v30.8 - FM index CV cannot reach the full range of the manual index setting. To test, set the modulation index attenuator wide open, and turn the index knob full off (counter clockwise). Now send a full 10V to the index CV input. Note that the modulation depth is a lot less than you can get using the manual setting all by itself at full clockwise. I think this has always been the case on this module. Not sure if the same problem is on the 261e.

250e v30.4 (Fixed in v30.5) Interp corrupts FIXed voltages. To test, set all the stages to external voltage. Set all the CV1 knobs to the A position. Run an LFO into the A input. Use the CV1 output to drive oscillator pitch. Choose the FIX button to freeze the last stage voltages. In this situation, each stage should have a different voltage that was picked up from the LFO. Now set every stage to interp. After about one cycle of the sequencer in this arrangement, all the stage voltages rise to the max voltage and stay there.

250e v30.5 FIX option does not apply to the TIME values. Not sure if this is by design or not. The manual isn't specific.

250e v30.5 (Fixed in v30.6) Continuous mode cannot run reliably using the CV from a 266e QRV, SRV, 251e sequencer, another 250e, etc. Any stepwise input. Intermediate transients between the steps are picked up and stage pulses fire without being selected. I don't recall this happening before v30. I made a video demonstrating the problem. See description for details. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJFpmMeEak
EDIT: I was lucky enough to stumble on an old v2 system with a 250e in it, so I tried this test and it failed. The 250e has always had this behavior so there is no v30 issue here.

250e v30.6 Continuous mode won't respond to continuous CV unless it is very slowly changing.

259e v30.8 - Causes the preset manager "not stored" button to flash for no reason.

266e (hardware issue) produces quite a bit of noise on QUIET GROUND, much more than any other module.
7thDanSound
291e, steps set to cycle act like timed steps.

How to test:

Set step 1 and 2 to pulse, step 3 to cycle.
Set step three time to 1 second.

Notice when stepping how the sequencer stops for a second on step 3.

Suggestion:

Have the sequencer "look ahead" so that when at step 2 and a pulse comes, it goes straight to step 1 without passing step 3.
This should also be true when all steps are timed.

Feature Requests moved to dedicated thread.
7thDanSound
291e misses pulses when tweaked

How to test:

Set all steps to puls and enable sequence
Insert pulses to advance jack from eg 250e
With everything running, tweak any knob on the front panel
Notice how the sequencer misses steps and becomes misaligned
Kent
223e Arpeggiator.

Pressing the blue transpose button will often remove a voice of polyphony. It isn't consistent on my system but appears to happen more often when transposing from "1" to "2" and from "2" to "3". It happens on about 40% of button pushes.

This occurs with and without the clock running and whether or not it is actually in "run" or not.

===

Further to the above, the changing of the arpeggiator type (i.e. Triangle, Rising, Spiral, etc) will exhibit the same symptom as above: a voice of polyphony is dropped. This happens 100% of the time on my system.
ttown23
250e fails to display 30.4 firmware information on 225e and re-starts 225e initialization routine

When pressing the remote enable button on the newly updated 250e primo module, it simply re-starts the 225e initialization routine and fails to display the 250e firmware version.

This only happened with my 250e that I updated per Buchla instructions from pre-primo to primo firmware. The newer 250e that came with primo displays its information fine.
Kent
Please try updating the firmware again in order to see if the symptom goes away.
Also, is your 225e running v30 or higher?
ttown23
Kent wrote:
Please try updating the firmware again in order to see if the symptom goes away.
Also, is your 225e running v30 or higher?


Yes, firmware re-flashing was attempted 4 times with the same results.

Also yes, my 225e is running v30.4 firmware.

I spoke with Alex @ Buchla and he has confirmed the bug with a few of the 250e modules that he's looked at. He says that a 250e CPU swap didn't fix the problem, either.

EDIT: UPDATE: Alex @ Buchla was a BIG help here... apparently the two DIP switches on the back need to be set AWAY from the arrow. Mine were not! Once I did this, it fixed the problem!!!
ttown23
So here is a strange bug that keeps cropping up. My 272e keeps 'loosing' it's firmware, requiring it to be re-flashed multiple times to get it to work.

Apparently, according to Alex @ Buchla, this is a known bug. I am running V. 30.9 now and having the problem again and again. Can others chime in and confirm?

I have now resorted to the SiLabs debugger to get it going, as the normal method of firmware flahsing with the Buchla board isn't working anymore :(
Lyonel
272e v30.8 here, never had this problem. This module needs updates indeed.
It don't keep the preset stations here, and the envelop is really toooooooo slow.
weinglas
My 272e is on v30.8 as well and it has no problems with firmware flashing too. Like Lyonel's, it often loses the presets, but only the presets of the first tuner and the first tuner then receives only noise. Power off/power on fixes this the most times.

Personally i like this behaviour a lot, because then i have 3 tuners and one hell of a noise source. But if i had to scan for radio stations e.g. if i took my skylab somewhere else, it would not receive any station at all in its "noise mode". Then it is firmware upload time ....

And the envelope should really be much faster, but i guess Don does not use it for percussive sounds angry
Lyonel
I'd love to see how Don use it !
ttown23
Hmmmm. Well, that's interesting guys. Maybe I need to send mine back to Don. I dunno, I've had such problems with this module! It won't even take a firmware re-flash, and it doesn't have proper connector for the SiLabs debugger?!
Lyonel
The 272e, like the 296e and 267e can’t be defibrillated with the Debugger.
corkyburger
223e - Data input lag
Occasionally I have a problem on the 222e where the data that I'm adjusting, say for example, the amount for the CV1 output, will jump up one digit above or below where I selected. Its like the digits are lagging behind the knob turns.

I haven't tested it enough to know what repeated steps may be causing it. A power off and on fixed it the couple of times it happened so far.

259e/261e - General tuning/tracking issues
I noticed today that trying to track both these oscillators from the 223e arpeggiator Tuned output was resulting in failure! Tracking doesn't even last over an octave.
I think its the general tuning and tracking issues that are my biggest bugbear with the 200e. I REALLY hope BEMI are making some effort to get this sorted out.
missingtwin
here's a bug that has been confirmed by BEMI regarding the 222e touch plate, v30.1

I've had two separate 223e modules with the 222e touchplate and both exhibited this same behavior. The location sensing keys P, Q, U and T get STUCK in the activated position for some seconds after you've lifted your finger off of the key. It doesn't happen every time. It seems to be related to the amount of surface area of contact on these keys. The more skin contact, the more likely it is to get stuck on. No other keys exhibit this behavior.

This doesn't sound like a huge problem but it is. If one of these keys is assigned to a radio group, no other keys can be triggered in that group while it's stuck on.

BEMI said they are still in the investigatory stage as to what is
causing this issue.
dkcg
This is related to the 225e's preset manager (and possibly all preset managers).

When I have it in remote mode and have a midi clock coming in and switch presets, there is a hesitation as if the midi clock drops out for a moment. The workaround I found is to not use the 225e in remote mode, which presets change instantly w/o losing the clock.

I have a feeling that this might not be "fixable" since it could be a limitation.

Anyone else able to confirm this behavior?
ZenMusic
225e does not respond to All Notes Off Midi message
missingtwin
267e v30.1

"external c.v." to "random" pot on the
Random A and B sections of the 267e not saving
to presets.

pot registers a change to the preset manager but
does not store.

bug confirmed by Charles at BEMI on 4/19/16
cyberdine
corkyburger wrote:
223e - Data input lag
Occasionally I have a problem on the 222e where the data that I'm adjusting, say for example, the amount for the CV1 output, will jump up one digit above or below where I selected. Its like the digits are lagging behind the knob turns.

I haven't tested it enough to know what repeated steps may be causing it. A power off and on fixed it the couple of times it happened so far.



I have the same problem with the 223e, and powering on and off has not fixed it for me. It's a lag of maybe 3 or 4 seconds. It's annoying but not fatal.
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