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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Serge Filters
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules Goto page Previous  1, 2 [all]
Author Serge Filters
negativspace
Funky40 wrote:
how is the CGS Serge 1973 SVF ?
is that the one from the serge line you would choose today ?
having this is having "the serge VCF sound" ?


It's excellent. Very excellent. As for how it compares to the Vari-Q or Vari-slope modules, I have no idea. My Serge experience is barely above 0.

It will certainly give you "a Serge VCF sound." hihi

Quote:
Also, hey wigglers! Good to be aboard, been reading for a long time, you guys are the best synth resource out there! Finally, sorry for potential typos, typed from the phone


Great first post - welcome to Muff's! It's motherfucking bacon yo
Funky40
thanks negativspace !
some motivation for funky40 to finish that 4/5 populated CGS 1973 serge hihi ...and dive back into DIY
RichyHo
Navs wrote:
amnesia wrote:
toppobrillo wrote:
Quote:

Navs wrote:
The Toppobrillo is a very nice filter but it does not sound like a Serge.


Totally agree. I just borrowed a Toppo and its not even close



Is it supposed to be? hmmm.....


I dont know if its suppose to be but for some reason it must have people thinking it is, thats why I wanted to try it.


No, Josh, and it doesn't have to be. It's a class filter in its own right. But evidently some people think there's a Serge connection.

I thought there was a connection and some of the stuff I've read (and heard) reinforced that. I've read similar about the 'TWF'. Is there something that can claim - in any way - to be more Serge-like? Or is the desired outcome more technique than hardware?
comaduster
My experience with serge animoo and the Variable Q VCF is it's pretty sharp and clean -- which I like -- when it's patched vanilla. I think where things get interesting is when you patch subtle feedback paths through the waveshapers and transient generators (acting as a slew limiter) back in to the filters second input and vary the gain. I was able to create a BUNCH of different filter characteristics by doing this. Some quite vactrol-ish sounding, some more unstable, etc. I always thought of that filter as a clean slate to create lots of different types of filter behaviour. Not many other filters I've tried really held up to this type of treatment, except for the Cwejman MMF-1 (brilliant filter). Fun stuff!
mhtones
Navs wrote:
amnesia wrote:
toppobrillo wrote:
Quote:

Navs wrote:
The Toppobrillo is a very nice filter but it does not sound like a Serge.


Totally agree. I just borrowed a Toppo and its not even close



Is it supposed to be? hmmm.....


I dont know if its suppose to be but for some reason it must have people thinking it is, thats why I wanted to try it.


No, Josh, and it doesn't have to be. It's a class filter in its own right. But evidently some people think there's a Serge connection.


Oh man, if Navs says I'm wrong then I must be wrong. And, I'm not being sarcastic either. I really respect Navs! we're not worthy

And, I know that Josh has said before that the Multifilter was not meant to be a euro equivalent/attempt at a Serge filter.

So, I apologize if I've misled anyone. But, in my own setup, I feel like I'm having a lot of SXXXX-like fun. This is based on the myriad of serge demos/tracks I've listened to in the Buchla/Serge subforum. However, I do admit that I have never played with a Serge in person, so I'm basing my comments on only what I've heard others do. And with all due respect, I guess all that really matters is that I'm having fun and loving the sounds my small setup makes. Now, I'll go (hides)
Rabid
Old Age wrote:
...

I am from St. Louis (in the city), but I am going to school in Louisville, KY. I should probably add that. Speaking of which, if any of you know of people in the Louisville area on this forum let me know, so far I haven't been able to find anyone sad banana ....


I lived in Louisville first as a musician, then later when I went to Speed. I still buy most of my synths across the river at Far Out Music though I now live 160 miles away. I know someone on the forum is from Louisville because I bought a couple of used modules from him. I cannot remember who it was. You're not the only "Old Age."
Rod Serling Fan Club
@funky, I can verify they are similar I tried both filters side by side when I had a creature. It is sort of a vanilla filter IMHO its nice for pinging and crazy FM feedback stuff.
30ohm
I think people say the toppobrillo filter sounds like serge because it sounds really good, haha. But also can easily get that liquid-ey BLOOPBLORP sound that every serge demo ever features.


Someone should make a serge demo patching up the sound from Sandstorm lol.
aethersprite
My favorite use of the Serge VCFQ is not even in a filter capacity, a pulse at the trigger input creates a beautiful dampened sine wave with VC decay. Also, the lo mode turns it into an incredible quadrature complex slew! Here's an example of a basic marimba tone available from ringing the filter on hi, nothing at the input. Sequence from the lovely ASR Quan M-odule.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/candescent/candescent-062612[/s]

Edit: I'm very enthusiastic about the versatility and elegance of the VCFQ so here's another with it still not being used a filter! A recording of three Variable Q Filters patched to oscillate.

[s]http://soundcloud.com/candescent/candescent-082912[/s]

It's peanut butter jelly time!
ndkent
Don't forget the Universal Slope Generator (VCS in Euro land) can do a lowpass filter via slewing.
toppobrillo
Quote:
I guess all that really matters is that I'm having fun and loving the sounds my small setup makes



yah! well im glad u dig!!

sorry, i just felt a need to chime in as the "serge like filter" comes up often enough, the tone I read from amnesia's comment was that the serge VCQ is, (and very well may be in his opinion), the 'benchmark' to which any similarly specced filter must be compared,,, I've never used one, and as Ive said while the feature-set on paper was inspiring [as is the case with loads of gear that I've never actually used] I certainly don't aim with my modules to nail specific nuance of 40 year old designs.. at least *yet* anyway. if i did, it would be obvious, as in a tribute..anyyyyyyways.. with respect to the OP my advice is a) try a serge! people are unloading them all the time lately it seems not sure which filter[s] are in the system that KFW used here.. b) try a multifilter! of course i think its nice Rockin' Banana! but yeah, as much as it can be, it's it's own thing
toppobrillo
Quote:

Drumdrumdrumdrum wrote:
I didn't know serge used filters. I thought it was all "West Coast"? In fact using the word Serge and Filter in the same sentence is an oxymoron.


That definitely deserves the reply "Hmmmmmm"


haha yes help

edit:
Quote:
Oh man, if Navs says I'm wrong then I must be wrong. And, I'm not being sarcastic either. I really respect Navs!


yes, Navs is Der Mensch.
pixelmechanic
toppobrillo wrote:
b) try a multifilter! of course i think its nice Rockin' Banana! but yeah, as much as it can be, it's it's own thing


I would love to try a multifilter, but there's none available! ; )
Navs
toppobrillo wrote:
yes, Navs is Der Mensch.


... nah, just another nut who wants a Serge VQVCF in Euro hihi

mhtones: there's nothing to apologize about - it's all Josh's fault razz
Arcade Sinusoid
pixelmechanic wrote:
toppobrillo wrote:
b) try a multifilter! of course i think its nice Rockin' Banana! but yeah, as much as it can be, it's it's own thing


I would love to try a multifilter, but there's none available! ; )

Sure there are @ control
http://www.ctrl-mod.com/product-p/toppobrillo-multifilter.htm
pixelmechanic
^ Excellent! Cheers... but now there'll be a rush!
mhtones
Navs wrote:

mhtones: there's nothing to apologize about - it's all Josh's fault razz

Hug

Yeah, damn Josh! Stop putting out such quality modules. And I just realized you need your own emoticon!
bisquick
I had a question about the differences, if any, between the various replicas of the serge euro filters out there.

It's my understanding that CGS, Random*Source, and Elby have all made releases. Are there more?
Most of these seem to be licensed/agreed to by Serge himself, so I am curious if anyone out there has done a thorough eval of the various options? Is is mostly panel design and/or HP?

I mean, theoretically there should be no differences, but I wanted to consult the experts.

Thanks for any info!! w00t
Also, if there is a better thread out there about this, please do let me know. I found the title in this one to be the most relevant.
Leverkusen
As far as I understand Randomsource made some improvements on their Serge modules in cooperation with Serge himself, mostly to achieve better audio quality. The VC Slope Filter also has added resonance control with a potentiometer and a wider range for the slope compared to the original.
Leverkusen
As far as I understand Randomsource made some improvements on their Serge modules in cooperation with Serge himself, mostly to achieve better audio quality. The VC Slope Filter also has added resonance control with a potentiometer.
bisquick
OK, so R*S improved things.
And Elby and CGS they mostly obtained permission/guidance?
In that case, are there any differences between the Elby and CGS implementations?
Navs
That's a bit of a simplification wink

Ken Stone/ Cat Girl Synth has been making licensed adaptations of Serge designs and others available to the DIY community for years/decades.

http://cgs.synth.net
http://serge.synth.net

Some of his designs and now the Serge adaptations were/are made for Euro format by Elby. So, yes, they should be the same.

R*S 'improved things' by using modern VCAs. CGS uses the original gain cells. So, to answer your question, there is a difference.

Another difference might be R*S's choice to stick to Serge levels, rather than adapt the circuits to 'hotter' Euro levels:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2157324#2157324

That said, which filters do you mean? It looks like Elby/CGS only produce the 1973 and EQs, not the Variable Q, for example, which is DIY:

http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs112_vcfq.html
http://www.elby-designs.com/webtek/euro-serge/euro-serge.htm

Best ask Laurie!
widgetoz
Navs wrote:
That's a bit of a simplification ;)

Ken Stone/ Cat Girl Synth has been making licensed adaptations of Serge designs and others available to the DIY community for years/decades.

http://cgs.synth.net
http://serge.synth.net

Some of his designs and now the Serge adaptations were/are made for Euro format by Elby. So, yes, they should be the same.

R*S 'improved things' by using modern VCAs. CGS uses the original gain cells. So, to answer your question, there is a difference.

Another difference might be R*S's choice to stick to Serge levels, rather than adapt the circuits to 'hotter' Euro levels:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2157324#2157324

That said, which filters do you mean? It looks like Elby/CGS only produce the 1973 and EQs, not the Variable Q, for example, which is DIY:

http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs112_vcfq.html
http://www.elby-designs.com/webtek/euro-serge/euro-serge.htm

Best ask Laurie!
Currently we only have the ES07 1973 Filter and the ES22 resonant Equalizer. Other filters are being worked on. Doug Lynner has done a video on comparing the ES07 Filter with the Serge original so worth a look.
bisquick
Thank you so much to Navs and Widgetoz for the clarifications.
Much appreciated. Chugging Beers
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