playing strings- using modular synthie

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kopplog
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playing strings- using modular synthie

Post by kopplog » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:19 am

hi folks!
some ime ago I purchased some modules of you including one Rs110 and one Rs35...
I intended to build up a synth for stringed-instruments, especially
because I´m playing stick.
Allthough there are existing examples that such attempt can be successfull
I never got any good results out of it with my stick

(I need to say: the stick has ten strings. bass as discant-strings and the whole instrument is made from acrylic
and metal rods: lots of sustain and overtones so and the tone spectrum is huge
)

I tried it as described in several posts in the web:

intrument >> multimodefilter:lows out >>rs35 >> ...vco ... :eek:
could you give me some hints or tipps how I can archive good tracking?

thanks so much!

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LDT
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Post by LDT » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:30 am

Monophonic playing is number one. Nothing but one string must sound.
If your instrument has more than one pickup, use the one with least overtones.
Use the multimode filter to focus on the range (of fundamentals) that you are playing.
On a normal guitar, I would definitely use a compressor on the output.

Does any of this help?

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Post by Blackened Justice » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:33 am

Is it a chapman stick, or anything like it? If it has alot of overtones, you should filter them out, so the result approaches a sine or other simple waves. Are you playing monophonically (one note at a time)? Is the RS-35 set to correctly handle the spectrum of frequencies you present to it?

Could you describe what happens? Does it not track at all? Does it track in a harmonically related manner (a fifth or a third above, etc.)?

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Umcorps
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Post by Umcorps » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:55 am

:agree: [with Lars]

Plus eq the crap out of the signal you want to track.

If you can, divide the output from the stick to an aux channel and use that to feed the tracking synth. That way you can compress and eq the signal without mercy to get the best tracking without worrying about how it sounds.

The clearer and cleaner you can get the signal, the better the tracking will be. Lots of strong harmonics will result in the tracking jumping around as it grabs onto the different frequencies available - which can be a lovely effect if you want it. But if its not what you want, you need to try to take out everything from the source signal that doesn't fall within the frequency range you want to track across.

Clean, consistent and thin gives the most predictable results.

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kopplog
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Post by kopplog » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:36 am

thanks so far, people!

well, what turns out is the vco is jumping around like crazy-
I guess too it´s that huge amount of strong harmonics which
makes it sounds so wobbly :hmm:
I do try to play strictly monophonic (I should know as I was
used to play guitar thru midi-convertion...) and it´s still poor.

what I forget to say is I´m using a stilton-adaptor in front of the multimode ...still this will not make anything worse, right?
A.)
I never tried out compressor in front but I will as soon I´ll get home, thanks!
(still that one I have will not turn out to be much useful as it´s
one from KEELEY and it produces so much overtones )
B.)
what might makes it only worth is I got only 2 pup´s- one for each group of strings (by 5) and both are interfering eachother.
only slightly! but- enough?

what I think of it in general that could help:
trying out another filter?
allthough the rs-110 has 24db on lowpass-out
or
using a A-128 fixed filter bank (Doepfer) but it feels to me an overkill--

maybe you can tell me your opinion about that
cheers

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ndkent
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Post by ndkent » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:19 am

Trying to use a guitar as a synth interface has long been one of the holy grails of synth builders.

As you've found out it's not hard to get something, but to get results where you can play like you always do tends to often be unachievable. Unfortunately again, if there were easy answers you'd articles on it and lines of people buying the hardware that would get tight results. I'm not an expert but I've heard the best results are always dedicating a monosynth per string. Lower notes have proved difficult as have any extra frequencies in the attack having indeterminate pitch.

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Umcorps
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Post by Umcorps » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:49 am

kopplog wrote: what I think of it in general that could help:
trying out another filter?
allthough the rs-110 has 24db on lowpass-out

Just speculating here but, might it be worth trying using the 110 as a bandpass and use the pitch CV out from the RS35 to track the filter cutoff as well as the oscillator pitch?

You would possibly need a sample/hold module as well to hold the filter frequency between notes - I don't have an RS35 and I'm not sure how they behave when there is no incoming audio to track.

Something to experiment with maybe?

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Post by LDT » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:12 pm

Now I got curious to see if I could get a decent result with the RS35.
With a Les Paul type guitar I got 2 1/2 octave perfect tracking from the low f# and up. (Only using the three botton strings to minimize overtones).
I was using a slightly overdriven preamp and a bit of 12db LP filter.
There seems to be something wrong with your setup, and don´t worry about the filter. It should be working fine without the filter, but by cutting overtones you can improve it from there.
I got only 2 pup´s- one for each group of strings (by 5) and both are interfering eachother.
only slightly! but- enough?
I don´t really know what you are saying here, but any interference is bad. Simplify your setup to track down the problem. If you have a normal guitar, try with that.

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Post by digitalganesha » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:54 pm

Hit up Roger at Big City. This should help.


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kopplog
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Post by kopplog » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:52 am

Roger didn´t replied ever. Maybe he´s a too buisy guy.
But Bob from AnalogueSystems replied and helped me on patching
my ChapmanStick right!
8_)
Last edited by kopplog on Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kopplog
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Post by kopplog » Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:59 am

Woohoo! :party: :party:
I get my basic synth-patch done nearly-
tracking seems to work with some extra tweaking...

ListenSoundCloud

tech:
ChapmanStick>
StiltonAdapter>
Rs110 Multimode> // Doepfer 24db LP II >
Rs35 Ext.Processor>
Macbeth DualOsc (saw)>
Cjewman QuadVCA...

it´s just about the sound- not a playing-technique example :roll:

In future I will exchance the CwejmanVCA against one TUBE VCA/TimbralGate from KenStone
and some stereoEffect (thinking on one Doepfer panning module...)
...also some Envelope Generation to add finesse.
:bananaguitar:
ideas welcome!

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:52 am

a filter after the DualOsc would be great, I think.

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kopplog
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Post by kopplog » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:57 am

yeah, true :razz:

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haven
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Post by haven » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:24 pm

for good tracking I would say deal with that issue the way other Stick players have done so, with a MIDI interface. Stick sells a custom MIDI pick up http://www.stick.com/instruments/midi/

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