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Rewiring numerology into LIVE to use Volta
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Volta  
Author Rewiring numerology into LIVE to use Volta
TWINSTATES
Would this work? Does anyone do this?

Thanks in advance!
1nput0utput
It probably would. The newest version of Numerology (maybe still beta) supports AU auxiliary audio outputs, which means that it can host Volta directly. Live can do this too. So you could probably have Volta instantiated in Numerology while it is a Rewire slave to Live (or Pro Tools, or DP, or Logic, etc.). I think Live and Numerology are both available as non-expiring demos, so you could easily try it if you already have Volta.
doctorvague
1nput0utput wrote:
It probably would. The newest version of Numerology (maybe still beta) supports AU auxiliary audio outputs, which means that it can host Volta directly. Live can do this too. So you could probably have Volta instantiated in Numerology while it is a Rewire slave to Live (or Pro Tools, or DP, or Logic, etc.). I think Live and Numerology are both available as non-expiring demos, so you could easily try it if you already have Volta.


Iirc, in general you lose quite a bit of functionality in Rewire Slave mode with just about any software, especially AU functionality, so Numerology might not host Volta when acting as a Rewire slave - just not sure about that, especially with this new version. If that's a hangup, don't use Rewire - just slave Numerology to Live via the IAC bus (works fine- I've done it) and bypass Rewire slave limitations altogether. OR use Rewire and route Numerology MIDI to Live and host Volta in Live. I use it that way with DP and that's what I did when I made my videos. Haven't tried Live with Volta yet myself but I plan to try it sometime soon. I have a love-hate thing with Live....

Please let us know what shakes out from this when you get it going, especially if one method has advantages over another that aren't obvious at first.
os
doctorvague wrote:
Iirc, in general you lose quite a bit of functionality in Rewire Slave mode with just about any software, especially AU functionality


Just about any software *except* Numerology. Jim's a genius and figured out how to offer full AU functionality (which mainly means opening their GUIs) while running as a ReWire slave.
doctorvague
os wrote:
doctorvague wrote:
Iirc, in general you lose quite a bit of functionality in Rewire Slave mode with just about any software, especially AU functionality


Just about any software *except* Numerology. Jim's a genius and figured out how to offer full AU functionality (which mainly means opening their GUIs) while running as a ReWire slave.


That's great news, thanks, os.
TWINSTATES
hello all,

Thanks for the heads up.

So, does Numerology now work with the ramp automation and so on in Volta?

ideally Live would host Numerology as an AU and i think that's coming so super cool, for the moment it sounds like the compromise is pretty goood.
doctorvague
TWINSTATES wrote:
h
ideally Live would host Numerology as an AU and i think that's coming


Really?? I must have missed that one - if so, that's a really big deal. What's the advantage there you're seeing of Num as AU as opposed to Rewired? Seems like that might be be more limiting in some ways as far as routing goes, but maybe I'm missing something.
TWINSTATES
perhaps i got it wrong, thought i read something on their forums about doing that. . .

ok, so, I figure if it's an AU i access it from Live rather than mousing around between 2 programmes. I do this with live and synfire pro and it's an absolute pain (single sreen you see).

other than that if the rewire sync is ok then no big deal i guess.

So, what I want to do, with Volta is to modulate the pitch (and other things using say a step sequencer) then modify the modulation with another controller (ramp or something)

I can't do that in Volta at the moment but I am guessing that I can do that in numerology?
doctorvague
Well I hit a couple of snags recently with my plans - mainly that Numerology won't see my (second) audio interface dedicated to Volta. It's a limitation in Numerology I wasn't aware of until I spent $1K setting all this up. Also my dotcom power supply is on the fritz and busy with other things. So I'm not much help with Volta research right now. I haven't done anything with ramp automation with Volta so far.

Please post anything you figure out here as I think most of us are still sussing out our workflow with Volta, etc.
jimAtFive12
TWINSTATES wrote:
So, does Numerology now work with the ramp automation and so on in Volta?


The new 2.2 beta supports that:
http://five12.net/showthread.php?t=541

Try it out, let me know how it works for you. It should work fine either hosting Volta standalone, or running in ReWire mode. However, in ReWire mode, Numerology loses direct access to your audio hardware, so you'll need to setup extra channels in Live to route Volta's outputs to your hardware interface -- as you do when hosting Volta in Live anyway...

TWINSTATES wrote:
ideally Live would host Numerology as an AU and i think that's coming so super cool, for the moment it sounds like the compromise is pretty goood.


Although it remains a possibility for the future, there are no imminent plans to do a full Numerology AU -- and it would not be all that great for Volta anyway, as you'd still have the routing problems.

Best,
Jim
jimAtFive12
TWINSTATES wrote:
ok, so, I figure if it's an AU i access it from Live rather than mousing around between 2 programmes. I do this with live and synfire pro and it's an absolute pain (single sreen you see).

other than that if the rewire sync is ok then no big deal i guess.


Try using Command-Tab to cycle between the two programs, I find it really helps.

TWINSTATES wrote:
So, what I want to do, with Volta is to modulate the pitch (and other things using say a step sequencer) then modify the modulation with another controller (ramp or something)

I can't do that in Volta at the moment but I am guessing that I can do that in numerology?


Absolutely. You can feed CV signals generated in Numerology (via Sequencers, LFO's, Envelopes, etc) directly into Volta's Ramp parameters and through that to your modular -- no MIDI involved there whatsoever. Or you can use MIDI pitch bend or process MIDI notes to affect pitch while maintaining calibration.

Cheers,
Jim
TWINSTATES
I got it.

WOW!

I havent hooked it up to Volta yet, however I have had a lot of fun for the last few hours and have only just really scratched the surface.

Dr vague, you could light pipe to your 2nd adat interface perhaps? this is what Stretta suggested i do when I was having problems using my fireface 800 and 828, light piped out to the 828 and it's fine. . .

If you search streta gives a fairly easy t understand explanation of how it works. ..

I am looking forward to hooking up my modular rig now smile
doctorvague
TWINSTATES wrote:

Dr vague, you could light pipe to your 2nd adat interface perhaps? this is what Stretta suggested i do when I was having problems using my fireface 800 and 828, light piped out to the 828 and it's fine. . .


You're on the right track, but the second Volta-dedicated interface is a 24io sitting on top the modular. My main audio interface is a 2408 mk1 with both connected to a 424 card. The 24io is strictly analog. I guess I could put it in the first position of the card and I assume Numerology would see it and just pipe the Numerology audio into DP when needed. I'm not sure if that would cause any repercussions elsewhere or not - I don't think it would. These days I usually just send MIDI from Numerology to DP via the IAC bus and host any VI's I'm using in DP anyway, so audio direct from Numerology is not a big deal most times.

The one thing I won't do is use Aggregate Devices as I brought down my whole system with that one a couple of years ago. YMMV, but I'm seriously gun-shy on AD.

What specific advantages do you guys see - including you Jim if you're reading this - to having Numerology (rewired) host Volta directly vs Num rewired and a DAW rewire master hosting Volta? I'd really like to bat that around if anyone's interested or has any ideas.
ignatius
you could also try using apples IAC bus in core midi. i've routed numerology into audiomulch using it and it works perfectly.
doctorvague
ignatius wrote:
you could also try using apples IAC bus in core midi. i've routed numerology into audiomulch using it and it works perfectly.


Do you mean audio, or MIDI? I'm doing the MIDI that way now: Num MIDI > IAC bus > DP hosting VI's and audio mixing
jimAtFive12
[quote="doctorvague"]
TWINSTATES wrote:

What specific advantages do you guys see - including you Jim if you're reading this - to having Numerology (rewired) host Volta directly vs Num rewired and a DAW rewire master hosting Volta? I'd really like to bat that around if anyone's interested or has any ideas.


Well, since your DAW is DP, then you're much better off hosting Volta there than in Num Rewired -- as in DP you get direct audio assignments within Volta.

Cheers,
Jim
Analog>Plugins
Isn't Stretta about for any help on this?

Have you tried emailing him.
TWINSTATES
Hi All,

I moved house and have been away so haven't had much chance to get num and volta and live playing together.

I rewired up my modular rig and some other bits at the weekend, trying to get Volta and numerology working left me scratching my head a little.

I was thinking that perhaps the best way was to host volta in numerology then record audio straight into live as clips.

I open volta as an Au, what next? How do i send control data out? in live you open an audio channel and select volta as per stretta's video.

I am guessing that i need to send audio on different channels in Numerology. if anyone has this working and can share how they did it i would be very grateful.

Thanks!
doctorvague
TWINSTATES wrote:
trying to get Volta and numerology working left me scratching my head a little.


Same here!

TWINSTATES wrote:

I was thinking that perhaps the best way was to host volta in numerology then record audio straight into live as clips.

I open volta as an Au, what next? How do i send control data out? in live you open an audio channel and select volta as per stretta's video.

I am guessing that i need to send audio on different channels in Numerology. if anyone has this working and can share how they did it i would be very grateful.

Thanks!


I hope I'm telling you correctly, here...
as I see it, you need Volta talking directly to your audio interface and modular. Otherwise how are you going to calibrate? Volta needs to talk to your oscillators and I'm not sure it can do that instantiated in Numerology running through Live, can it?

I tried running Volta in Live but it seemed pretty convoluted to me. I followed all the steps in the Volta manual. I kind of have a love-hate relationship with Live, though, so it might be just that. My normal DAW is DP as mentioned above. Right now, I pipe the MIDI from Numerology rewired into DP in real time and host Volta instances in DP. That way I can use Numerology>DP/Volta in real time, but also record the MIDI in DP and record the Modular audio into DP all at the same time. You could try doing it that way with Live. A lot of it obviously depends on your musical goals.

You might consider posting a new topic specifically about Numerology - Live - Volta either here or on Jim's forum and see if anyone has already climbed this mountain. I haven't looked - maybe there's already a thread here or there about it.
TWINSTATES
Hi DrV,

Thanks for the heads up.

Just posted on Five 12. See what comes of that smile

thanks
1nput0utput
I don't see the advantage of hosting Volta in Numerology while Numerology is a ReWire slave to Live (or any other DAW). Like doctorvague and jimAtFive12 were saying before, it seems more sensible to instantiate Volta in the DAW (which makes it easy for Volta to have access to the DAW's mixer via AU auxiliary outputs) and then use Numerology in the ReWire mode (where it can generate control signals that will be routed to AU ramp automation control sources in the Volta plug-in).

doctorvague wrote:
as I see it, you need Volta talking directly to your audio interface and modular. Otherwise how are you going to calibrate? Volta needs to talk to your oscillators and I'm not sure it can do that instantiated in Numerology running through Live, can it?

Volta only "talks" to the synth indirectly through the host DAW's mixing system (except for in DP where it can output signals directly to interface outputs through special features of the MOTU Audio System).

I know that Numerology has AU auxiliary output support in recent versions, but does it support AU sidechain inputs? Setting the Volta plug-in's sidechain input to the interface input to which the oscillator's sine output is directly connected is required for automatic calibration. If Numerology doesn't support AU sidechain inputs, then Volta's automatic calibration feature won't work while Volta is instantiated in Numerology. (This might be another reason why you wouldn't want to instantiate Volta in Numerology when you plan to use it in ReWire mode.)
jimAtFive12
The Numerology 2.2 beta supports both the sidechain input for Volta, as well as multiple audio outputs. All audio routing is done on the module itself, so you don't have to use multiple channels like you do in Live. There are some details in the 2.2b1 release notes. I'm also working on a video -- it's all recorded, but not edited yet. I'll make a post here when it is ready.

The 2.2 beta is here:
http://www.five12.com/vbForum/showthread.php?t=541

And, of course, don't hesitate to email me directly if you have questions: jim (at) five12 (dot) com.

Cheers,
Jim
TWINSTATES
Ahh great stuff.

I look forward to seeing the video!

Will snag the beta when the vid is up. .

Cheers Jim smile
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