how are you using your Plan B model 10?

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intellijel
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how are you using your Plan B model 10?

Post by intellijel » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:13 pm

I have a 9u system and have noticved a few modules I hardly ever use.
One of them is the Plan B M10. I have a Doepfer A-140adsr and a A-143-1 that I use for the majority of my envelope needs. For LFO's I have a dopefer a-145 and a Livewire Vulcan.

I remember seeing that Felix considers them one of his most used modules so I was curious about some example patches/uses for it? What makes this essential?


Just want to see if I am missing some cool uses of it!

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berfmurret
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Post by berfmurret » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:48 pm

as i see it you can only really compare it to the 143-1 since theyre both AD type modules..

the m10 just has variable slope types, more i/o, voltage control of time base, MUCH larger range than one of the envelopes of the 143-1.. more capable of the plucky sounds with a lpg.. just overall a more refined module.

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incekt
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Post by incekt » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:51 pm

yeah,... more plucky sounds- and envelopes and require short attack but long release - or the other way around...
-and i use the attenuator on it alot...

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Post by berfmurret » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:51 pm

incekt wrote: -and i use the attenuator on it alot...
heck yea

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felix
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Post by felix » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:07 pm

I use them as my primary envelopes, filter, vca, etc. I frequently use the EOC and EOA outputs to trigger other events, like my other M10, or clock a random voltage generator. I really like the range on it, it can be really fast and really slow. The attack and decay ranges seem to be the same to, unlike the A-143-1 which seems to have a shorter range for attack and a longer range for decay. I also *really* like the timebase control. It allows me to quickly adjust the overal time of the envelope and having that under voltage control can be quite magical.

While I don't use it that often, the Cycle input can be quite interesting. For example, you could setup a patch so that the M10 is set up to control filter cutoff, then have the Comp Out of one of the EGs on the A-143-1 patched into the Cycle input on the M10 and set it so that the Threshold for the Comp is set so that it goes high around the end of the Attack cycle. With the A-143-1 controlling your main output VCA, you can have this sound that, once at full volume, the filter starts modulating, but not before then. Essentially a "delayed LFO" without the need for additional VCAs, gate delays, etc. :D

The selectable envelope shapes are very nice too. It would be great to be able to select separate shapes for attack and decay, or have variable control, like would be possible with a VCS (Serge SlopeGen), but just having the 3 combinations is better than not at all. The built in attenuator is very handy, not necessarily for attenuation, but inversion.

The M10 easily runs at audio rates too! The timebase basically acts like the pitch, and it's very sensitive at such small attack/decay times, but it will work as an audio rate modulator in a pinch.

The Ramp output I don't use as much, but I think that's only because I have two M10s now. I vaguely remember using it more back when I only had one. The Ramp is nice for controlling something like Deviation on the M24, or other things that you might want to change linearly during some duration. Dougcl has some interesting uses for it simultaneously with the normal EG outs, but I can't find the thread where he talks about it.
[edit- nevermind, was looking for the wrong thread, here it is:]
viewtopic.php?t=6433&highlight=m10

One thing about the M10 mkI that is critical for me is the fact that it does not re-trigger. Some of my favorite aspects of my M10s (both mkIs) are only possible because it does not trigger. For example:

VC Clock Divider - put a clock into the Trigger in and use EOC as the "divided" clock output. Changing the timebase via voltage control divides the clock.

Random Sync'd EG - put a regular beat clock (eg. 16th notes) into the Trigger in. Patch EOC to trigger in of random voltage generator (M24, wogglebug, etc) and have stepped/smooth output control Timebase of M10. What you get is an EG that always starts on a 16th note, but will have a slightly different duration for each cycle. This sounds incredible natural and musical as compared to something always firing off at a steady 16th.

There are some other non-EG based functions that I use the M10 for to, for example, what I call a "dual VC clock":
Take EOC out and patch it to a mult and take one mult and patch it to the Trigger input (you may need to click the Start switch, *not LFO*, to get it self-cycling). Take the other mult of EOC and that's one clock signal. Now take the EOA output and that's your other clock cycle. Now adjust Attack and Decay separately to control the time relation between the two clock pulses. Voltage control into VC TimeBase controls the overall clock rate. Note that it would seem easier to just put the M10 into LFO mode, but when it's in LFO mode, the EOC output does nothing (probably my only gripe with the M10), so you need to physically patch the functionality instead. FWIW, I think this "trick" is straight out of the regular Serge uses for the universal slope generator.

So yeah, I love my M10s. I don't remember now the examples I covered in the demo video when I did it, but maybe it will give a little inspiration.
[video][/video]
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dougcl
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Post by dougcl » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:10 pm

Put the M10 in LFO mode. Use the EOA to trigger a S&H. Send the S&H output to the M10 timebase cv. This gives interesting changes in time.

Take M10 ramp output and send it through the A-175 inverter. Run the + and - outputs of the inverter to the A-134-2 crossfader, and use the S&H above to determine the amount of crossfade. Take the crossfade out as pitch cv, and the M10 envelope as envelope cv. This gives random up/down pitch changes as the envelope unfolds on each hit. Sounds like a rising or falling thud.

Take the ramp cv out to a polarizing mixer. Use the mixer output as pitch vc. Same as above only manually controlled. Gives you falling or rising cv on each envelope. Use it to alter pitch, cutoff, slaved oscillator pitch, and so on.

This should get you started.

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Post by felix » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:45 pm

dougcl wrote:Take M10 ramp output and send it through the A-175 inverter. Run the + and - outputs of the inverter to the A-134-2 crossfader, and use the S&H above to determine the amount of crossfade. Take the crossfade out as pitch cv, and the M10 envelope as envelope cv. This gives random up/down pitch changes as the envelope unfolds on each hit. Sounds like a rising or falling thud.
Nice! I'm going to give this a shot, albeit with the M14 crossfader; cause that's the only one I've got.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
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sandyb

Post by sandyb » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:56 pm

the timebase cv input is my favourite feature of the model 10 along with the ability to invert the output envelope. i like using the inverted output in conjunction with a random cv into the timebase to turn off a model 13 lpg with the gain turned up. you can get some quite interesting effects on audio that way.

sandy

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felix
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Post by felix » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:58 pm

felix wrote:
dougcl wrote:Take M10 ramp output and send it through the A-175 inverter. Run the + and - outputs of the inverter to the A-134-2 crossfader, and use the S&H above to determine the amount of crossfade. Take the crossfade out as pitch cv, and the M10 envelope as envelope cv. This gives random up/down pitch changes as the envelope unfolds on each hit. Sounds like a rising or falling thud.
Nice! I'm going to give this a shot, albeit with the M14 crossfader; cause that's the only one I've got.
Shit this is a fun patch! Especially if you vary the amount of S+H going to the crossfader. For example, I had the M24 Stepped output controlling the M14's crossfader, but I had the Smooth out controlling the Deviation of the stepped output. Running it nice and quick with the M10 opening an LPG as the "master" VCA...super fun!
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Post by dougcl » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:11 pm

Felix, if you still have your ASR, use it instead of the S&H. Now send one ASR output to the timebase, and another to the crossfader. That way it's different every time.

You can also get this rolling with two M10's. Send a third ASR output to the other M10 timebase, for example.

Also, use the crossfader output to control filter cutoff, or the pitch on a slaved VCO (ie timbre), or the depth of A-137 stuff. You can get really nice evolving sounds.

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Post by felix » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:15 pm

dougcl wrote:Felix, if you still have your ASR, use it instead of the S&H. Now send one ASR output to the timebase, and another to the crossfader. That way it's different every time.

You can also get this rolling with two M10's. Send a third ASR output to the other M10 timebase, for example.
Nice, I certainly do have the ASR and have been trying to force myself to use it more. I'm going to give this a shot now.
dougcl wrote:Also, use the crossfader output to control filter cutoff, or the pitch on a slaved VCO (ie timbre), or the depth of A-137 stuff. You can get really nice evolving sounds.
I got that going, actually with the 2nd M10 controlling the A-137 (ramp to harmonics, standard EG to folding level), but I was using the wogglebug as another random source, I'll repatch with the ASR as part of the above suggestion.
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Post by dougcl » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:15 pm

felix wrote: VC Clock Divider - put a clock into the Trigger in and use EOC as the "divided" clock output. Changing the timebase via voltage control divides the clock.
Hadn't thought of this. Great idea.

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Post by Time Machines » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:31 pm

By using the trigger input as an output, you can get manual gates from it.

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Post by dkcg » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:38 pm

Just be careful, actually don't use it as an LFO and send it a trigger. You could blow D5 which will kill the internal cycling of the LFO. I wish it didn't do that, but a warning to those new to the M10. I blew one already doing just that. Well, not the whole module, just the cycle, but EOA can be patched back into the trigger if you already blew or will blow the diode.

And if you mirror (different that inverse) the ramp out using a Model 26, you get a 3rd envelope that can be used, 2 variable, and one fixed linear. :D

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Post by felix » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:57 pm

dougcl wrote:
felix wrote: VC Clock Divider - put a clock into the Trigger in and use EOC as the "divided" clock output. Changing the timebase via voltage control divides the clock.
Hadn't thought of this. Great idea.
Thanks! I honestly don't remember if I came up with that on my own, or got it from info on using the Serge slope gen. Either way, yeah really useful. And, now that I think about it, you can get two independent, but related clocks, by using the EOA output as well.

PS - Getting the ASR involved was rad! I eventually de-volved down into a simpler patch with the ASR controlling quantized pitch, M10 timebase, FM index and amount of M10 (via VCA) opening the QMMG. Thanks for the guidance!
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Post by astroschnautzer » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:07 pm

dkcg wrote:Just be careful, actually don't use it as an LFO and send it a trigger. You could blow D5 which will kill the internal cycling of the LFO. I wish it didn't do that, but a warning to those new to the M10. I blew one already doing just that. Well, not the whole module, just the cycle, but EOA can be patched back into the trigger if you already blew or will blow the diode.
I think it`s only the mk2 that has this bug...

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:41 pm

I forgot I made this video. You can use the M10 as a limited audio source, and it makes a great FM source in LFO mode too.

[video][/video]

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Post by richard » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:10 pm

nice racket!

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Post by bar|none » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:23 pm

Hey guys. I have 2 model 10's and I just realized today that one has the blown LFO syndrome.

Any ideas how easy this is to fix and how to do it or how to find someone besides Peter to do it?
Last edited by bar|none on Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:34 pm

bar|none wrote:Hey guys. I have 2 model 10's and I just realized today that one has the blown LFO syndrome.

Any ideas how easy this is to fix and how to do it or how to find someone besides Peter to do it?
I believe the diode that blew is marked as D5. Shouldn't be too hard to fix yourself if you're comfortable with soldering. The end of cycle should still be able to be patched back into the trigger and self-cycle that way, that's what I was doing with mine anyhow, until I plugged it in backwards and made sure it doesn't cycle at all. :yay: :sadbanana:

I talked to Peter recently, I think if there is a Mk3 of the M10 in the future, he plans on trying to alleviate that. I think enough have been blown that he wants to redesign that part to not blow the diode in the future.

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Post by bar|none » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:49 pm

@dkcg
Cool tip. Thx.

I can solder fine but not sure how to source the correct diode.

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Post by dkcg » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:12 pm

bar|none wrote:@dkcg
Cool tip. Thx.

I can solder fine but not sure how to source the correct diode.
Same here. If I had the diode, I could fix it, but i'm not even a newbie when sourcing parts, I'm a pre-newbie for parts sourceing. The EOA hopefully works for everyone with blown D5 diodes, a decent workaround since the EOA doesn't output in LFO mode anyhow, so no jacks or access lost. :tu:

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Post by makenoise » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:12 pm

bar|none wrote:@dkcg
Cool tip. Thx.

I can solder fine but not sure how to source the correct diode.
Any High Speed Switching type diode should get your M10 going again. These are even available at Radio Shak:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2062587

Be sure to mind the polarity, taking note of the orientation of the part before removing.

Tony

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Post by bar|none » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:50 pm

@makenoise
Thanks much!

Now we can get back to the main point of this thread which is how to use em.

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