LFO wish-list

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.

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os
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LFO wish-list

Post by os » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:49 am

I'm putting together an LFO module plug-in for Silent Way. Would be interested to hear any suggestions as to what would make it your dream LFO.

cheers,
os.

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Post by DrOctave » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:54 am

check out the bubblesound lfo that has enough function for me.
It's beter to have cords and not need them than to need them and not have them.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DrOctave1?feature=mhum

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os
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Post by os » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:00 am

There's no info other than 'coming soon' on http://www.bubblesound-instruments.com/

Can you point me at the specs?

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a100user
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Post by a100user » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:14 am

Have a look here

viewtopic.php?t=5380&start=0

Worth following the thread all the way through as the spec changed a bit based on feedback.

Good luck and nice to see ongoing dev of Silent Way
I'm looking for nothing at this moment in time

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os
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Post by os » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:19 am

Gotcha, thanks.

Seems to have everything other than a built-in S/H+noise circuit (a la RS380).

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Post by Soy Sos » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:46 am

I would guess the syncing to beats is the big deal.
Have sub-divisions as large as 8 measures and as small as 1/16 notes maybe?
Also re-trigger so it's free running and re-triggers on the desired sub division.
Did I write that correctly?

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os
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Post by os » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:57 am

OK here's what I've implemented so far:

* outputs: sine, tri, saw, square (with pulse width)
* S/H random output about to be added
* free tempo, 3 ranges: 0.05-20Hz, 0.5-200Hz, 5-2000Hz
* host tempo sync: basic division switchable from 1/1 to 1/32, then LFO period set in multiples (which can be non-integer) of that division
* 'quadrature mode' so you can have 2 LFOs with an exact phase relationship.

So the thing I'm missing it seems is a re-trigger/osc sync/whatever you want to call it.

Good job I posted :)

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Post by Kent » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:22 am

One thing that I like on the Analogue Solutions LFO was that it had something like a VCA (easiest way to understand it) that would go from -infinity to a user-determined level of amplitude for the LFO when a trigger was applied to a dedicated input. It was called something like LFO delay.

It was cool for having a step on a sequencer fire off an LFO that would rise in amplitude.

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Post by os » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:29 am

Yup, that's a common feature on LFOs on non-modular synths - useful for vibrato that fades in after the start of the note.

Of course with a modular you can add that to any LFO with an envelope module and a VCA - if you have modules to spare, anyway!

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Post by ShanBeng » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:51 pm

Would it make sense for the LFO to condition/map its output depending on what the destination would expect or like to see?

For example, an LFO that is used to introduce vibrato modulates an oscillator as log frequency while an LFO from which one extracts a trigger would swing from 0 to HI, with HI being the level of a peak.

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:03 pm

Hi Os,

I would take a look at the quite remarkable lfos in the new DCAM synth Squad from:
http://www.fxpansion.com/

- it has a cool feature where you can skew the waveform to swing it... I've never seen that before, it sounds REALLY funky!

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Post by os » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:38 am

ShanBeng wrote:Would it make sense for the LFO to condition/map its output depending on what the destination would expect or like to see?

For example, an LFO that is used to introduce vibrato modulates an oscillator as log frequency while an LFO from which one extracts a trigger would swing from 0 to HI, with HI being the level of a peak.
I've got arbitrary scale and offset controls in there which covers the cases of +/- symmetric or 0->1 waveforms.

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Post by os » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:57 am

wetterberg wrote:it has a cool feature where you can skew the waveform to swing it... I've never seen that before, it sounds REALLY funky!
Can you tell how that's working (e.g. stick an oscilloscope on it)?

I wonder if it's like the PWM on my Minky Starshine synth - basically it stretches the first half cycle of the waveform and shrinks the second half cycle, so you can PWM any waveform, not just square waves.

[video][/video]

Is that useful on an LFO? I could easily add it.

sandyb

Post by sandyb » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:47 pm

a question for you all. i'm thinking maybe discussion about features for silent way should really go in the music software part of the forum? but, if the desire is to keep it here i'll keep my grubby paws off :)

sandy

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dkcg
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Post by dkcg » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:58 pm

Since we're talking digital LFO in a computer, why keep it with traditional waveforms? Just make all the standard waveforms presets, and make it so the user can define their own with a little wavetable window with a pencil tool, a curve tool, or standard AR/ADSR types of envelopes. More versatile that way.

Perhaps this should be in the software forum since a dream digital LFO is a bit different than a hardware form one.

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Post by os » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:44 am

Fair comment about the software forum. To be honest, I hadn't noticed that there was a software forum. I'll post there in future.

Good suggestion about the user-definable waveforms. Something for v2.0 though I think :)

sandyb

Post by sandyb » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:11 pm

os wrote:Fair comment about the software forum. To be honest, I hadn't noticed that there was a software forum. I'll post there in future.

Good suggestion about the user-definable waveforms. Something for v2.0 though I think :)
no problem :guinness:
i'll move this one and iirc there was another one too in general discussion - i'll move it as well when i find it.

sandy

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Post by os » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:21 am

Here's a thorny topic then - how about moving all the threads out of the Volta forum that don't relate to Volta? For example, the most recent one about using Reason to generate CVs.

I'd like to be able to reply to that along the lines of "why wait for Volta on PC when Silent Way exists now" but writing that in the Volta forum would just make me feel a bit wrong.

Alternatively, maybe the Volta forum needs to be rebranded as the forum for all software methods of CV generation.

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Post by Analog>Plugins » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:57 pm

Hi Os, saw this thread and thought I'd better chime inwith some ideas :soapbox:

Lfo fade in delay like on Kontakt 3.5 is something I personaly use a lot when sound designing.

Lfo to adsr is a really cool effect that I use a lot on the Yamaha CS-30, not many synths do this. But a dedicated simple adsre that is triggered by a note on midi message from the host would work really well controlling the Lfo so you could have the Lfo start slow then gradually speed up.

Sure you could program it in with controller data but a hard wired lfo to adsr would be awesome and simple.

Top job on the constant upgrades. Some nicer GUI knobs would be nice, but it works just fine as it is :mrgreen:

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Post by os » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:58 pm

So we're talking about an envelope to control the LFO frequency? I understood the previous request to be for an envelope to control the LFO depth - so that's two distinct feature requests.

I'm going to have to think about how complex I make the LFO. My philosophy so far with Silent Way has been to make the plug-ins a bit like hardware modules - they do one thing, but do it well. I'm reluctant to turn each plug-in into a monster softsynth-alike in its own right.

There's clearly a balance to be drawn between what's much more convenient to have in software and what's possible by hardware patching.

So in the case of an LFO it's clearly tremendously convenient to have accurate host tempo sync. Scaling the LFO depth with an envelope, however, can be done in hardware pretty easily. On the other hand, if the LFO is in software, then anything that affects its frequency also really needs to be in software too.

Summary: hmmm. Thinks. Expect to see a 1.0 release without some of these extra features and we'll see where we go from there.

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Post by Analog>Plugins » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:19 pm

I think Mod wheel to LFO mod depth hard wired and an adsr to LFO rate would be uber cool.

Or have it simply as 2 x adsrs with a matrix like on the voice controller so you can assign them to whatever.

Probably way too complex and time consuming but would certainly add potential for sound design.

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Post by criticalmonkey » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:51 pm

I implemented the envelope idea on my version of an lfo with max/msp - midi velocity and adsr - turns out to be the main reason I keep using my lfo plug over volta

definitely a great reason for the computer based lfo over hardware

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Post by os » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:41 am

What is MIDI velocity controlling in your implementation?

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Post by criticalmonkey » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:05 am

attenuation of lfo - it would better to move/option it to aftertouch or some cc but max/msp dropped support for vst/au so i'm going to update in reaktor one day - if i ever have any free time again :bang:

btw if you are looking for great software lfo info - cycling 74 has a really good article - http://www.cycling74.com/story/2008/7/15/122424/991
:tu:

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Post by os » Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:07 am

The LFO plug-in is released - I'll start a new thread about it.

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