MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index
 FAQ & Terms of UseFAQ & Terms Of Use   Wiggler RadioMW Radio   Muff Wiggler TwitterTwitter   Support the site @ PatreonPatreon 
 SearchSearch   RegisterSign up   Log inLog in 
WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Help with the genealogy of an orphaned Moog Module
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Help with the genealogy of an orphaned Moog Module
Paddy's Kitchen
Calling all Wigglers, i need help, but first i need to tell you a story.

Ok so I was fortunate enough to be offered a Moog module, and being a year into my foray into MU I though I'd take a punt.



Not knowing anything about it, other is was described as a 'custom' module behaving as possibly a '963' knowing I could never afford a full system but I though over the years I could perhaps get a module or two to integrate into my current setup (See below there are a bank of 4 of these modules next to the 4 960 and 962's)

On receiving this 3MU knob challenged device, I was able to find one post on Matrixsynth, (http://m.matrixsynth.com/2012/08/ra-moog-modular-delays-mixers-262-au to.html?m=1) which seemed to indicate this was part of the famous CEMS system, designed by Joel Chadabe with the late Bob Moog. CEMS stood for Coordinated Electronic Music Studio and lived in the university of Albany (http://www.albany.edu/music/electronic_music_studios_legacy.shtml) and seems to be driven by a master digital clock. There appear to be only about two photos on the web of this system (shown below are the 4CEMS cabinets in a different configuration) but little other information I can find. I note the university entry indicated there were several articles written about the system at the time so that's another area of research however I have written to their director and that has drawn a blank

Seems it went into disrepair and was sold off (I think through Vemia) and the poster on Matrixsynth would indicate this was with a view to its restoration. Contrary to this and for whatever reason it would seem it was parted out and sold off. There were 8 in the original (along with 8 960's and 8 962's), maybe there are other wigglers who have one.

I managed to get in touch with Joel Chadabe who sent me one further pic and this mail:

"I've attached a photo of the whole system. Note that the two closest racks contain sequencers. And note that the leftmost rack on top contains a lot of knobs. Those knobs were settings for a digital clock that was capable of timing the operations of the sequencers (I actually didn't use that very much). The module that you attached had a series of numbered jacks called delay outputs, which were connections from the clock to the sequencers. The mixer is a mixer that (I think) could mix outputs from the rows of the sequencers (I don't remember exactly, but that's the only way the mixers could make sense). The other switches, etc., were related to the sequencer operations."

This was the photo

With the parcel i received was the three connectors for the 960, 962 and

and this delay (its marked up '963'), I've drawn out the pin outs,

and I've made a couple of recent posts enquiring re schematics to see if I could identify the pin outs connections but to no avail ie what the respective pins on the 960 and the 962 would connect to. (I emailed Roger as I have a Q960 and though maybe that could be used, but he said under the hood they are completely different constructions and only function and look the same as the original, I have not yet asked COTK or MOS-LAB). So I don't yet know what the respective signals would be communicated on those pins. I note that there are 5 sets of two sockets on my module 'delay outputs' these correspond to the pins 18-22 so I guess connected to the clock. On the face of the module they are numbered 6,7,8,9, & 10, so I guess there were 4 numbered this way and 4 others 1 thru 5.

So my task, such that a piece of history is not rendered for the scrap heap (the best form of recycling is to make sure stuff is used enjoyed and not just looked at!), is to see what functionality it can offer. I realise this may be severely limited as it designed to be used as part of the original CEMS and with this 'master clock' but it must offer something! (maybe there is a role for 'Arduino' here yes? No?)

I have also set myself the task of drawing the circuit diagram, (if you check my posts on DIY section you'll see some of my barmy and ill educated posts) but I have to say its 20 years since I did anything and I wasn't advanced then, so it's a steep learning exercise as well, (but again the community have been very supportive) but was hoping that someone could translate into what it does, and it doesn't seem particularly complicated!

Suggesting this looks like an op amp style cv/ audio mixer, a mighty wiggler has given some additional info Regarding the two chips, one a hex inverter, and it looks like the other is a J-K flip flop, both obsolete RTL logic chips.

Not sure who would know anything about this any more, finding out about the history is exciting for me, but would be great to bring it to life in some small way, and I hope that wherever the individual pieces of the CEMS are in the world then they too are being used.

So in the words of the great Ty Pennington 'can we do this?'
JohnLRice
There are probably several people here that know about this but you may also want to post on the Moog forum too:

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=f3e78c5f65d6af01ef7a4 e0e271a2892
robotmakers
Fascinating! First off, the mixer section is most likely the simple "A" section of a Moog 961, which basically "OR's" the trigger outputs patched from the stage outputs at the bottom of the 960.

Then we come to the custom cable for the backplane connectors of the 960, 962 and what we'll call the 963. From the Moog archives website which has good info on the stock configurations of those connectors, the 960 and 962 only used the 1, 2 and 3 pins for power. None of the other pins were wired to anything. However, an enterprising user could wire the connectors to any jack or what have you. This means a lot of what follows will be guesswork.

Assuming your cable wiring diagram shows the 963, 962 and 960 connectors from left to right, I'd guess that Pins 12, 13 and 14 sent the three voltage outputs of rows A, B and C of the 960 into the three inputs of the 962.

Pins 8, 9 and 10 would connect the 960 to the 963, and likely sent the stage 1 trigger from the 960 to the 963. This could then be used by the 963 to automatically shift the 962 (set by the auto shift toggle) to provide a 24 step sequence capability. Another one of these three pins probably sent a reset trigger to the 960. The last pin was likely a master clock signal sent to the 960 from the digital clocks.

Pins 5, 6 and 7 connect the 963 to the 962, and I'd guess that one was used to shift the 962, sending that stage one trigger from the 960. Another pin was probably the reset signal, which would allow both the 962 and the 960 to be reset by pressing the single reset button on the 963. Not sure about the last pin.

These connections would explain the auto osc on toggle, which would select whether the main clock gets sent to the 960, as well as the 962 auto shift toggle. Not sure about that last toggle.

Outside of the CEM implementation, it would seem as if the module ends up being a simple 961 and a couple of toggles and buttons that facilitate shifting a 962, normalizing some connections, choosing an external clock and resetting two modules from a single button. Terrific piece of history, though!

Best of luck,
Roger
Paddy's Kitchen
JohnLRice wrote:
There are probably several people here that know about this but you may also want to post on the Moog forum too:

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=f3e78c5f65d6af01ef7a4 e0e271a2892


Thanks John, I couldn't attach the photos but (I think) I managed to attach a link to here

Roger thanks for the comments, the assumption re the connector drawing is correct, sorry should have noted that.

So if 960's and 962's don't normally have anything else connected then the are 8 of each somewhere with adapted boards!

These are logical explanations, but there doesn't appear to be any physical connection to the master clock from anything except the front 'delay output' sockets via pins 18 to 22 hmmm.....
robotmakers
Interesting about the clock. I notice the "Auto-osc on" toggle connects the orange and yellow wires. Are those wires routed to any of connector pins 8, 9 or 10?

Roger
whitenoise
I have seen this module in one or two setups. It has something to do with Trigger delay. It was customized from moog but I do not really know the exact functionality of this module. I now somebody in Italy who actually sold one of this very special ones. I will ask him what he knows about it.

Sorry thats all I can say for the moment
Baszline
Spotted this for sale on Ebay (not mine) w00t

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/RA-Moog-Modular-Synthesiser-Module-963-Delay-Mi xer-3MU-/181156159320?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Pro_Audio_Synthesisers _CV&hash=item2a2dbf9f58#ht_500wt_1187
noddyspuncture
robotmakers wrote:
Interesting about the clock. I notice the "Auto-osc on" toggle connects the orange and yellow wires. Are those wires routed to any of connector pins 8, 9 or 10?

Roger


Yes they are Roger... they connect pins 8 & 9.... and pin 10 is a trigger...!
Where on the 960 do you reckon 8 & 9 might connect to...?

Cheers,
Tom
davebr
This module keeps getting referred to as a delay but the flip flop is wired as a divide by 2. I wonder why the Delay Outputs start at #6. I believe they are simply wired to the rear panel connector. Where are delay outputs #1-5? Might those be on the digital clock generator on the far left? I wonder if it had a number of sub-outputs synchronized to a master clock. Maybe this was a way of bringing more of its outputs to a panel. If so, that is a long cable run. Curious.

Dave
noddyspuncture
davebr wrote:
This module keeps getting referred to as a delay but the flip flop is wired as a divide by 2. I wonder why the Delay Outputs start at #6. I believe they are simply wired to the rear panel connector. Where are delay outputs #1-5? Might those be on the digital clock generator on the far left? I wonder if it had a number of sub-outputs synchronized to a master clock. Maybe this was a way of bringing more of its outputs to a panel. If so, that is a long cable run. Curious.

Dave


Hi Dave,

The CEMS 'master clock' had ten knobs - it was on a panel up top in a different cabinet (the one that has the top half with the silver face) from the two 960/962/'963' complement cabinets.

The ten outputs came to each sequencer cabinet and then appeared on these '963's' labelled as 1-5 on the first one and 6-10 on the next one down. (Mine is a 6-10 unit) 1-5 on the next one and again, 6-10 on the bottom one.

Cheers,
Tom
davebr
noddyspuncture wrote:
davebr wrote:
This module keeps getting referred to as a delay but the flip flop is wired as a divide by 2. I wonder why the Delay Outputs start at #6. I believe they are simply wired to the rear panel connector. Where are delay outputs #1-5? Might those be on the digital clock generator on the far left? I wonder if it had a number of sub-outputs synchronized to a master clock. Maybe this was a way of bringing more of its outputs to a panel. If so, that is a long cable run. Curious.

Dave


Hi Dave,

The CEMS 'master clock' had ten knobs - it was on a panel up top in a different cabinet (the one that has the top half with the silver face) from the two 960/962/'963' complement cabinets.

The ten outputs came to each sequencer cabinet and then appeared on these '963's' labelled as 1-5 on the first one and 6-10 on the next one down. (Mine is a 6-10 unit) 1-5 on the next one and again, 6-10 on the bottom one.

Cheers,
Tom

Wow, they did unique silk screens for a low volume runner. Odd.

Dave
suitandtieguy
davebr wrote:
Wow, they did unique silk screens for a low volume runner. Odd.


not really. the way the factory made the panels, it wasn't really that big of a deal. these modules were all hand-fabricated anyway, and as long as they could make camera-ready art they could image them just as easily as any of their other modules.

there were no silk screens, they were all direct photo exposed with a vacuum table.
davebr
suitandtieguy wrote:
not really. the way the factory made the panels, it wasn't really that big of a deal. these modules were all hand-fabricated anyway, and as long as they could make camera-ready art they could image them just as easily as any of their other modules.

there were no silk screens, they were all direct photo exposed with a vacuum table.

That make sense.

Dave
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Page 1 of 1
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group