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Banana Frac: The Definitive Guide
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Fractional Rack Modules  
Author Banana Frac: The Definitive Guide
parasitk
So I woke up this morning considering selling my Frac to fund a Modcan and Serge system. After getting properly scolded by panda30y and Muff on Twitter, I realized that I really wanted to convert it to banana jacks and be rid of 1/8" cables and multiples forever.

There are a lot of posts about bananafying Frac modules around here, but honestly they're a bit scattered and I thought that perhaps a more focused thread might be handy for noobs like myself.

Searching turned up several threads with some bananafying teasers:

Banana Plugs on Blacet? http://muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=840
Blacet modifications https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3273#3273
converting 1/8th to banana? http://muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2822

I'm not so much worried about switching jacks (add a switch), or normalization (not a fan of it to begin with). I am a little more concerned about panel mounted jacks and things of that nature.

Any tricks and tips for bananafying your Frac modules (any manufacturer - I have Wiard, Blacet, STG, Flight of Harmony, and Bananalogue) would be most welcome.

Banana is the future of Frac!

It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners nanners

//Chris
panda30y
Well... i wouldn't say scolded... Smacked in the head with a trout

I'm sure most of this information you already know, but it may be relevant to others.

via the BananaPlug man, you will want a reamer, as the jacks on the blacet modules are too small to fit the banana jacks. You can buy it at mouser along with your banana jacks of course.

Emerson/Johnson banana jacks are probably the preferred brand in the US, but I understand they are harder to get overseas. I know bugbrand recommended a brand that he uses that you can buy from rapidonline in the UK.

Banana cables can be bought at Testpath. Pomona are the preferred brand that Buchla and Serge will sell. You could make your own as well, as I know emerson/johnson sell the plugs, and I believe pomona does as well. Tom from Bugbrand seems to make his own as well and recommend the rapid connectors.

Aside from that, it seems that floating the ground is fine for the most part, as the banana jack only has one lug for the hot signal. Switched jacks you can install a toggle switch to retain function.

For panels that have board mounted jacks, I imagine you would have to deal with remounting the boards, or in some cases they have separate boards for the jacks and ribbon cables ran to them. You should be able to splice the ribbon cable for some panels and just run them straight to the jacks. I'm unsure about this, as I just stick to modules that seem easy to modify. So taking everything I say with a grain of salt. Hopefully BananaPlug will jump in to save the day, but there are many posts in the threads parasitk posted that should help.
parasitk
panda30y wrote:
Aside from that, it seems that floating the ground is fine for the most part, as the banana jack only has one lug for the hot signal. Switched jacks you can install a toggle switch to retain function.

For panels that have board mounted jacks, I imagine you would have to deal with remounting the boards, or in some cases they have separate boards for the jacks and ribbon cables ran to them. You should be able to splice the ribbon cable for some panels and just run them straight to the jacks. I'm unsure about this, as I just stick to modules that seem easy to modify. So taking everything I say with a grain of salt. Hopefully BananaPlug will jump in to save the day, but there are many posts in the threads parasitk posted that should help.


Yeah I'm going to order a reamer, and I have some jacks already for my DIY stuff but thanks for adding that info here – I want this thread to be complete for the Frac user totally new to converting to banana (like myself!).

What to do with the ground cables on the old jacks is something I'm unclear about.

That bit in the other thread about the pullup resister also has me scratching my head a little. I asked about it there, and hope BananaPlug answers!
panda30y
I think it's to buffer the input a bit so the signal doesn't get too hot. That's my guess...?
the bad producer
When deciding upon formats to build my DIY stuff in a while ago, I decided upon Banana Frac, I found 5U too big, and Euro too fiddly, and wanted to save myself from Cliff Jacks and grey.

I have no Blacet modules myself, but have started to convert Doepfer and Plan B to Bananafrac (this probably seems like a silly idea!). On the most part it is fairly easy, though I have had to drill new holes in some PCB's to fix them to the panel, which is a little scary at times!

You've probably seen this thread on e-m, which may be of some interest;

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32779

there are quite a few others about banana systems and ground in general, such as;

http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35507

I tend to put two sockets in place of switching jacks, which I can then link together with a patch cable or shorting bar to normalise.

nanners

Charlie
DGTom
w00t awesome thread parasitk. I've been thinking we need this thread, maybe keep it rolling with all out trials & tribulations as we all go along.

I have started... slowly but surely! I can add a couple of modules to the piss easy, don't think twice about it, even your drunk uncle could do it despite constantally stopping to get you to pull his finger...

Oakley Little Lag (my bet is all the oakleys would be similar, they use the larger minijacks & the 5U under & over layout)

Banalogue 3P - despite the fact I feel kinda guilty pulling a nice little daughterboard jack mounting thing out, real easy!



(sorry, bit sketchy, its early)

BananaPlug will be able to answer this better than me, but, pull up resistors can be used where a connection needs to be high in its nominal state, like the Gate(rst) In on the Binary Zone, this is really easy, its just a resistor & there will already be a pad on the PCB where the normalled socket was hooked up, basically what happens is when you have no banana in the Gate(Rst) is pulled high keeping everything ticking along, when a jack is inserted the output impedance of the sending module overcomes the pull up resistor & you can jam your signal in.

Modules I am worried about; VCS... this has boardmounted jacks.. but there are transistors / resistors on those board, unlike the 3P, so you need to keep the little boards & remove the jacks. Little bit more de-soldering & will need some tricky way to re-mount the little boards hmmm..... I'm going to do some others before I tackle that one!

The only other annoyance I have is most of my metalbox modules have panel mount LEDs which are epoxied in place, this just means I'll have de-solder the wires from the board in order to remove the electronics prior to hole expanding. Still pretty easy converts because of the way the panels are laid out & all flying wires.

With the grounds I'm just tucking them away so they don't accidentally short to anything. The Lag is a wire which I just trimmed right back & stuffed inside the heatshrink that already shielded the wire. Too easy. With the 3P I just soldered my wires into the holes on the main board, these where linked to the jack board via jumpers which I removed, all very nice in the end.

At the moment I have 4 Frac'nana modules nanners loving every minute of it!

the bad producer wrote:
but have started to convert Doepfer and Plan B to Bananafrac (this probably seems like a silly idea!)


This makes so much sense it hurts It's peanut butter jelly time!

the bad producer wrote:
I tend to put two sockets in place of switching jacks, which I can then link together with a patch cable or shorting bar to normalise.


Very cool! This has just changed the way I've been thinking about the Blacet micro LFO which normals a pulse into the CV in in order to bend the waveshape when no CV is used, gonna check the schem to see if I can get away with bringing it out to the front panel, I think the most I'd need to do is stick a 1K resisitor inbtween the pad & the banana!
tragedybysyntax
Thing is tho... if you can't banana every module in your system... you still have to use minijacks to use the modules that couldent complete the convert. DAMNIT. I have to check tonight but i'm pretty sure between the euro and frac modules I have.... alot of pcb mounted. confused
Cat-A-Tonic
There are, of course, ways of working around the PCB mount jack issue as others have noted.
I reckon if you're committed to having an all-banana system then you can find a way to bulldoze thru such obstacles.

...or there are also solutions like Ken Stone's 3.5mm to banana converter plugs. we're not worthy

This banana-frac movement is cool as hell, nanners
but that doesn't mean you need to hop on the banana boat.

Personally, I'm too lazy to conduct such an enormous modification to my entire system and any other bits that I might acquire...
for now at least.

Though I must admit bananas do look, and I imagine feel, quite nice... but
I honestly don't have any problems using 3.5mm.
I don't have any of those accursed Cliff jacks that people tend to have issues with though.
Mono-splitters make 3.5mm just about as 'stackable' as bananas.
I don't find too much of a need for huge multiple jack panels.
Only occasionally do I mult beyond 4-6 points.

I must applaud those who undertake this bananafication though.
Your systems all look delightful. Rockin' Banana! applause Rockin' Banana!
panda30y
Yeah, I would have to agree that it is unfortunate than a few modules seem a little difficult to convert. But I've heard that people have converted the Hex Zone, and I would have to imagine that as difficult as any other module. Luckily, I decided to go into frac in March or April with the mindset of a banana frac system. So I try to choose modules that are easy to convert as most blacet modules are, metalbox can build for you in banana, all FoH modules come in barebones kits, and unless you run a shallow case, all of the diy pcb kits I've found so far will fit. The only 2 things that I might bite the bullet which might be difficult to convert are the window comparator and STG Wave Folder. I love the wave folder, but I might rather have 2 plague bearers. But what about a bugbrand or FoH delay? oh but I want the blacet I/O!? Wait! I need more space! Dead Banana
parasitk
From what I can tell I think the Wave Folder would be pretty easy. Everything is mounted off board, and STG thoughtfully used headers for all the cabling.

I agree that the VCS may be a pain, and I'm scared of messing with the Wiard modules because, well, they're Wiard modules! Don't want to fuck those up! waah

edit to add: I'm also not sure about the Plague Bearer – not because it'll be difficult, but rather the panel might get really ugly with all those closely spaced holes. I wonder if there's enough room for one banana for every minijack hole?

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
Though I must admit bananas do look, and I imagine feel, quite nice... but
I honestly don't have any problems using 3.5mm.
I don't have any of those accursed Cliff jacks that people tend to have issues with though.
Mono-splitters make 3.5mm just about as 'stackable' as bananas.
I don't find too much of a need for huge multiple jack panels.
Only occasionally do I mult beyond 4-6 points.


I felt the same... until I spent some time on banana based systems. Then everything changed. MY ASS IS BLEEDING
DGTom
parasitk wrote:
edit to add: I'm also not sure about the Plague Bearer – not because it'll be difficult, but rather the panel might get really ugly with all those closely spaced holes. I wonder if there's enough room for one banana for every minijack hole?


Thats the main reason I flipped mine sideways;



thing is, with bananas you don't need all the mini-jacks, these are just multed / 'summed' to the same 4 points on the PCB anyway, I've just been stacking the inputs.

parasitk wrote:

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
Though I must admit bananas do look, and I imagine feel, quite nice... but
I honestly don't have any problems using 3.5mm.
I don't have any of those accursed Cliff jacks that people tend to have issues with though.
Mono-splitters make 3.5mm just about as 'stackable' as bananas.
I don't find too much of a need for huge multiple jack panels.
Only occasionally do I mult beyond 4-6 points.


I felt the same... until I spent some time on banana based systems. Then everything changed. MY ASS IS BLEEDING


thumbs up Before using bananas I thought they were kinda cool, after I'd built my lunetta using them it totally changed the way I thought about patching! It makes whole sets off modules feel & act like single devices, going back to that 'instrument or collection of modules' discussion, minijacks just feel clunky.

The only module I'm really worried about now is the Cynthia Saw Animator... the main I/O will be easy enough, but the 6 LFO outs on the bottom are so close together... it may require a totally new panel.
panda30y
DGTom wrote:
parasitk wrote:
edit to add: I'm also not sure about the Plague Bearer – not because it'll be difficult, but rather the panel might get really ugly with all those closely spaced holes. I wonder if there's enough room for one banana for every minijack hole?


Thats the main reason I flipped mine sideways;



thing is, with bananas you don't need all the mini-jacks, these are just multed / 'summed' to the same 4 points on the PCB anyway, I've just been stacking the inputs.


Does it work the same? I alway thought that you weren't suppose to stack the inputs?
parasitk
DGTom wrote:
thing is, with bananas you don't need all the mini-jacks, these are just multed / 'summed' to the same 4 points on the PCB


I know you don't need (at least) all of the outputs on a banana PB (I'd keep the multiple inputs), but I'm working with the original Frac panel, and I'd be trying to stuff the bananas in the minijack holes. You made a whole new panel! If I convert my Frac I'd like to keep the panels the modules came with razz
DGTom
panda30y wrote:
Does it work the same? I alway thought that you weren't suppose to stack the inputs?


You can't stack just any inputs. On (some) Buchla systems (I understand) you could stack pulse inputs because all the pulse outputs had a diode & the inputs where set-up as summing nodes, I'm playing with this idea in my lunetta at the moment because it would save a tonne of space & make patch programming complex gate patterns alot of fun.

The PB barebones board literally has 4 points to connect on the PCB (ignoreing the grounds on the signal in/out) As far as I know these are just hooked up to multiple minijacks on the PB modules, so stacking 2 bananas on the CV ins is doing exactally what the minijacks do, I asked flight about it in the FoH forum but I think he missed it, so i just tried it & it works fine.

The PB is a special case tho, as far as I understand it the design allows for this kind of missuse, I wouldn't do it with any other module.

@ parasitk, aaahhh that makes sense d'oh! oops sorry, didn't realize, yeah, mine where barebones, not modules. You are in the same boat with the PB as I am with the Saw Animator... basically them holes is way too close Rage!

parasitk wrote:
If I convert my Frac I'd like to keep the panels the modules came with razz


So would I ideally...
DGTom
.... maybe a whacky (or just whack) idea, but.

If its physically possible, I would be tempted to add bananas, if they fit in next to the pots like bugbrand layouts hmmm..... then just swap out 4 of the minijacks on the panel for switching jacks (maybe they are already) so every 2nd in/out on the bottom is normalled to the bananas.
DonaldCrunk
i've been CNCing front panels out of 'extruded PVC' for bananafrac stuff lately with the intention of starting my own system.

another forum member and i are going to be 'beta testing' the first run of these panels - mainly to find out how the fuck to attach PCBs to the panel and how they will hold up with use.

there's a little bit of flex in the middle, but given their other positive attributes (i.e. cheap, malleable, available) i'm still quite happy with them.

here's a run of blanks i did for fellow forumite mome rath:



sorry about the shitty pic.


anyway, all this to say, if any of you have any bananafrac stuff you want some front panels for, i'm happy to poop a few of them out for you. the blanks are very easy to work with with your basic hand tools and a drill if you don't already have a layout in mind, and i can also do a complete layout sans text if you want.

just send me a bit o cash to cover shipping and maybe buy me a beer while i cut your panels out.

i'm happy to do other formats as well in the future, but i'd really like to restrict this to frac for the moment as that's what seems to be working the best with this material.


i think it's a good time to start a bananafrac system SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
Reese P. Dubin
Once you go banana you never go back. Worth every minute of downtime IMO, of course I built my few Blacets with them right of the bat.

5 years from now, minijackers will be the minority.
Randaleem
Hi DC!

Nice looking layouts!

Did you mean exPANded PVC? (Your pic looks like that as opposed to extruded PVC.) I believe you'll find Sintra (popular trade name for expanded pvc) too flexible for successful ongoing panel use. Even exTRUded PVC is more flexible than the PCB material some have used successfully. For example it's more bendy than acrylic, which seems to work okay for some things and people, but many find to be also too flexible for reliable use.

The issue is that the flexing leads to component and potential solder joint failure for the panel mounted items. Depending upon how you do solve the PCB attachment issue, this flex can transfer to it, and lead to all kinds of sticky intermittent sorts of problems. FWIW, My first DIY synth in 1976 used black 1/8" acrylic for its panels. I haven't used that material for panels since...

There's also the static charge issue to deal with when you use plastic panels. One help here is use of aluminum HVAC tape on the rear and grounded.

To perhaps kill two (Or three) birds with one stone, you could rout a channel from the top to bottom panel mounting hole on the back face of the panel. To a depth and using a width accomodating an aluminum angle to which the PCB mounts. A sort of "stooge" bracket, to use a term common to MOTM. Only instead of using the pots only to mount(and protect) the PCB, this way the entire panel is stiffened from top rail to bottom.

I see you are already happy with your present efforts, so feel free to take or leave any portion. IOW, YMMV, and all that...

I agree it is a great time to start a BananaFrac system! And (shameless commercial plug) if you need rails, the FE's are pretty inexpensive and capable! synthcase.com, GeoMetrics heading. (FWIW, short lengths of FErail could act as stiffener/PCB mount too.)

Kind regards, Randal

DonaldCrunk wrote:
i've been CNCing front panels out of 'extruded PVC' for bananafrac stuff lately with the intention of starting my own system.

another forum member and i are going to be 'beta testing' the first run of these panels - mainly to find out how the fuck to attach PCBs to the panel and how they will hold up with use.

there's a little bit of flex in the middle, but given their other positive attributes (i.e. cheap, malleable, available) i'm still quite happy with them.
<snip>
i think it's a good time to start a bananafrac system
parasitk
Okay I'll be converting next week, and I have some questions which are probably REALLY basic or obvious to any experienced DIYer (which I am not!), so I ask you all for patience!

1) On the Blacet modules, the ground wires tend to run back to the PCB. I've noticed that often a couple jacks are connected together, then a black wire goes back to COM on the board. When I desolder the mini-jacks, should I just snip or desolder those wires from the board?

2) When replacing a switching jack with an actual switch, what kind of switch works there and which lug of the switch gets connected? Switch terminology still confuses me.

3) I'm going to re-read what BananaPlug wrote about using a pullup resistor on the GATE(RST) jack on the Binary Zone. Are there any other modules need/can use that sort of trick?

Thanks!
//Chris
BananaPlug
parasitk wrote:

1) On the Blacet modules, the ground wires tend to run back to the PCB. I've noticed that often a couple jacks are connected together, then a black wire goes back to COM on the board. When I desolder the mini-jacks, should I just snip or desolder those wires from the board?
Yes. You don't need them for bananas.
Quote:


2) When replacing a switching jack with an actual switch, what kind of switch works there and which lug of the switch gets connected? Switch terminology still confuses me.
The jack incorporates the equivalent of a SPDT switch. The Blacet jacks I've seen are not in little plastic boxes so if you look carefully at the mechanics of the switch you can actually see what's going on. The extra wire for the switch usually goes to a pad marked with an S. If something is plugged in, the jack's tip connection is whatever was plugged in. Unplug that cable and the signal on the wire from the S pad is hooked up instead.
Quote:


3) I'm going to re-read what BananaPlug wrote about using a pullup resistor on the GATE(RST) jack on the Binary Zone. Are there any other modules need/can use that sort of trick?
Maybe but usually it makes sense to add a switch.
Quote:


Thanks!
//Chris
parasitk
Thank you!

BananaPlug wrote:
The jack incorporates the equivalent of a SPDT switch. The Blacet jacks I've seen are not in little plastic boxes so if you look carefully at the mechanics of the switch you can actually see what's going on. The extra wire for the switch usually goes to a pad marked with an S. If something is plugged in, the jack's tip connection is whatever was plugged in. Unplug that cable and the signal on the wire from the S pad is hooked up instead.


So while that basically makes sense, I'm still not exactly clear on how you'd wire it up with a banana and SPDT switch. oops Sorry!
BananaPlug
You know how a switch works, right? Now look at the jack and see what the little bits of metal do when you plug something into it. Got it? Now ignore the ground wire. What's left is two wires and a switch. Bingo.
DGTom
Fellow banana fracers,

just wondering if anyone has converted Blacets Micro LFO to nanners & would lend me the wisdom of yr experi-ances with regards to dealing with these pesky board mounted sockets hmmm.....

I have two ideas; first is expand the holes of the sockets towards the edge of the panel - drawback being an odd shaped hole & possibly a gap that will need a washer behind the banana.

2nd idea; (leaning in this direction at the moment) expand the size of the pot holes so that they & the board can be scooched over to the right, freeing up enough room on the left - drawback is misalignment between the knob & the ring of dots, but, this might make some room on the left for a switch to replace the normal in the Rate CV socket...

Plan to use a pull-up resistor on the Gate input, much like BananaPlug has described for the BZ Gate(Rst) input, hopefully that will work here.

Part of me is hoping that once I get the socket holes drilled out I'll get lucky & the bananas will just fit in... somehow I doubt it cry
DGTom
Well, after playing around & taking a closer look I realized the best way to do it will be to remove the pots & LED from the board & mount the PCB on stand-offs, little trickier, but will be alot neater than hacking the panel.
DGTom
They said it couldn't be done.... no wait, they said it probably shouldn't be done... wait, whose 'they' ... what?



nanners It's peanut butter jelly time! Dead Banana ambulance
wetterberg
that is dope, son!
the bad producer
that looks tricky DGTom nanners , did the pull-up resistor work?

Charlie
DGTom
Yeah, exactally the same set-up on the Micros Gate In as on the Binary Zones Gate(Rst) - so after I got the latter to work as per BananaPlugs posts I did the same thing on the Micro, 220K from the socket to the switch pad on the PCB. The panel switch selects between the internal pulse or the socket for the Rate CV, which is awesome! Kinda thinking of putting a Centre Off in there so you can toggle between skewed waveshape / normal / CV'd without touching the pot.

I'm buzzing now the headache has worn off, that was easily the hardest one of the lot, the last few modules should be a breeze.

Love your blog Charlie, gave me an idea for converting the Quad Mix VCA - bring the internal Bias Voltage out to a socket = Global Volume control / multi-purpose CV source SlayerBadger!

Almost run of of nanners now! Gotta email Bugs grin
parasitk
So as posted elsewhere, I bananafied all of my Frac modules except my two Wiards. I'm leaving the Borg alone, because I still might sell it, depending on how I feel about the 292c clones I'm building. The Noise Ring just kind of scares me – I definitely need to talk to someone who's done this (Tom Bugs was suggested in another thread).

Binary Zone and Quad VCA are half finished because I don't have any switches here at the moment, nor 220K resistors. I also somehow killed the 4204 on the BZ. So I have a Mouser order to place tomorrow.

N00b questions:

Switch terminology still confuses me – what kind of switch should I be looking for?

The 220K "pullup" resistor is just a standard 220K resistor, right? "Pullup" is just describing what it's doing?

And finally a pic:



I also have some "in progress" pics here: http://twitpic.com/photos/parasitk

BananaPlug
Quote:
The 220K "pullup" resistor is just a standard 220K resistor, right? "Pullup" is just describing what it's doing?
Yup, pulling up the voltage.
panda30y
parasitk wrote:

Switch terminology still confuses me – what kind of switch should I be looking for?
]


I believe you would want a spdt with a On-none-On configuration.
BugBrand
panda30y wrote:
parasitk wrote:

Switch terminology still confuses me – what kind of switch should I be looking for?
]


I believe you would want a spdt with a On-none-On configuration.


Which may also be referred to as SPDT C/O --- that means Single Pole (one switch element) Double Throw (can go two ways) Centre Off (has a central position where no connection is made)
parasitk
Thanks guys, I'll be ordering stuff today! applause
johnnymad
thumbs up nice work, Chris!
rezzn8r
parasitk wrote:
I'm leaving the Borg alone, because I still might sell it, depending on how I feel about the 292c clones I'm building.


here's to success with the 929 Chugging Beers
perhaps you'll think of me if selling the borg help
DGTom
parasitk wrote:
Thanks guys, I'll be ordering stuff today! applause


+1 on the centre off toggles, I'm thinking I will swap out the standard ones I have in the MicroLFO & BZ right now, having an off position, especially with the BZ, is crazy usefull.

I really like the Modcan A scheme on the Fracs grin

I'm gonna do the QMVCA this weekend, I'll let you know how the Bias Out goes SlayerBadger!
BugBrand
parasitk wrote:
.. The Noise Ring just kind of scares me – I definitely need to talk to someone who's done this (Tom Bugs was suggested in another thread)...


It was actually relatively easy (as was the Borg) - I think Indexofmetals had a JAG too which I said NO to due to board mounted jacks (it could be done but would have been tricky and I didn't have the time).

Here's the pic I sent IoM after mod:


Jacks simply replaced with bananas (little bit of hole size increasement) and two sub-mini switches added for the normalization.

Sub-mini switches, if I remember right, were the only ones that'd fit without obscuring lots of the lettering.
parasitk
Thanks for the info and pic! You wouldn't happen to have a pic of the back of the module would you? oops
BananaPlug
Bugs, when replacing normals like Ext Rate with switches I connect the jack to one side of a spdt switch, the wire feeding the circuit to the middle and the alternate source to the other side. That way when Ext Rate is switched to use the signal from Aux out, it's also disconnected from the jack so you don't have the possible problem of shorting two outputs together.

Maybe your tiny switches are spst though.
parasitk
My Binary Zone is fixed! Thanks to BananaPlug and DGTom for all the tips and help.

I punched a new hole for the switch, and left the jack where it was. I replaced the 4024 chip and all functions as expected. Did the pullup resistor thing, but I haven't tested it yet. I never really use that jack anyway oops

Next to finish: The QuadVCA and tackle that Noise Ring!
mono-poly
Ask Maleko how to mod the noisering with an external clok input!
DGTom
parasitk wrote:
My Binary Zone is fixed! Thanks to BananaPlug and DGTom for all the tips and help.

I punched a new hole for the switch, and left the jack where it was. I replaced the 4024 chip and all functions as expected. Did the pullup resistor thing, but I haven't tested it yet. I never really use that jack anyway oops

Next to finish: The QuadVCA and tackle that Noise Ring!


w00t Great news man!! I am still so perplexed by how that IC died, so fucking odd! Oh well, I'm glad it was that & not something harder to fix.

PS; That Gate(RST) input is begging to be hooked up to your logipacs flip-flops; get some low freq. clocks popping in there thumbs up
parasitk
DGTom wrote:
PS; That Gate(RST) input is begging to be hooked up to your logipacs flip-flops; get some low freq. clocks popping in there thumbs up


Well Gate(RST) works! I didn't use the flip-flops though, just the EXOR gate.

http://virb.com/parasitk/audio/454503

DGTom
Well, here is my mutated Quad Mix VCA...



I spent alotta time trying to figure out how to do it without either missing out functions or adding half a dozen switches... made all the more diffucult due to not having the schematic.

Finally I figured out a way to not only maintain all the main features, but, also added some nice ones along the way... it is, however, abit of a wierd module now.

Patch programmable back to normal operation; the red socket is the output of the Bias sub-cct. this is normalled to the CV ins as stock, so with no CV input the VCAs are held open, now I have a cool 0 - 13V voltage source.

The 'off-grid' yellow socket inbetween A & B is an input into the ABC mixer, this was normalled to the output of D, so I can patch D out (green above the red) back into here for normal operation, or, inject another VCA or Mixer or whatever from elsewhere; I really like this because this signal doesn't go into the VCAs at all & when the module is patched how I usually use it ABC Out -> D In -> D Out -> Speakers I can do some gnarly distortion tricks with the Bias out, basically allowing for smooth cross-fading between clean & dirty with the Bias knob.

For some people this would be overly clunky, with 4 patchcords chained from Bias to A, B, C, D CV ins it is a little, but the thing is you realy hardly ever need to do that & all the extra options that 'opening' up the behind the scenes functionality bring make it well worth it for me.
parasitk
Cool! Do you have a pic of the guts?
DGTom
Edit;

Here we go:



... this is the most I've altered a module during bananafication; I spent ages on it last night & nothing exploded which is good Dead Banana

The heatshrink bit on the left is a 100K resistor I put in-line with the summing input... just in case... it actually drops the gain a fair bit, might toy with that a little more, its kind of cool at the moment as you can drive channel D really hard & this knocks it down to something more resonable... but listening back to the initial patch I had yesterday with a sine wave injected straight in hmmm.....

Putting the klangwerk between D Out & the ABC mix-buss is awesome SlayerBadger!
DGTom
&...



Expanded Frequency Divider. Seperate, buffered outputs for 8 / 16 / 32 / 64 + the output of the switch & the audio output!

SlayerBadger!

I cut a trace & added an extra 2K2 resistor in order to use the buffer which was used to provide the 2nd output.

Clock-a-thon! w00t
tragedybysyntax
Christ, that sequence was neat as shit. Love how those osc's sound... *sigh*

Hey guys, this pic is elsewhere on muff's but i thought it should be seen in here since it's you guys that made me go bananas! lol. That MOTM filter is coming out as soon as I get the Binary Zone in the mail and make a panel for it.

parasitk
I finished my QVCA today, using the tricks DGTom listed above.

I didn't put a resistor before the D/Mix input (floating grey jack above the D output and below the 75/100 switch) because it never had one to start... but I dunno, maybe I should? seriously, i just don't get it

My only other thing is I put the Bias out jack (yellow out above the word BIAS) a touch too close to the PCB and the washer is close to to two solder points. It's kinda stressing me out. I put a piece of tape there, but I might pull it back out and move it over a touch for my peace of mind.

Phineous
nanners

bump for a great thred

l8r

P
Atticus
Phineous wrote:
nanners

bump for a great thred

l8r

P


Yes! Great pics in here.

Has anyone any thoughts on bananafying (?) the MOTM modules, is it possible? I've never seen the backs of any but I suppose it'd be difficult.
BananaPlug
Quote:
Has anyone any thoughts on bananafying (?) the MOTM modules, is it possible?

Anything's possible I suppose. If you search for it you can find my post about a bananafied MOTM 440 low pass in frac format. It was a very tight squeeze but possible.
adamf
Atticus wrote:
Phineous wrote:
nanners

bump for a great thred

l8r

P


Yes! Great pics in here.

Has anyone any thoughts on bananafying (?) the MOTM modules, is it possible? I've never seen the backs of any but I suppose it'd be difficult.


Just checked my ADSR. The jacks are mounted on a separate PCB which has a ribbon cable running back to the main PCB. Shouldn't be too hard to either modify the ribbon cable for direct connection to bannanas or possibley desolder the jacks from the PCB and add wire links from the old jack PCB to the new bananas. If I ever do it, I'll repost with the result.
Atticus
adamf wrote:
Atticus wrote:
Phineous wrote:
nanners

bump for a great thred

l8r

P


Yes! Great pics in here.

Has anyone any thoughts on bananafying (?) the MOTM modules, is it possible? I've never seen the backs of any but I suppose it'd be difficult.


Just checked my ADSR. The jacks are mounted on a separate PCB which has a ribbon cable running back to the main PCB. Shouldn't be too hard to either modify the ribbon cable for direct connection to bannanas or possibley desolder the jacks from the PCB and add wire links from the old jack PCB to the new bananas. If I ever do it, I'll repost with the result.


Sounds promising. Thanks. Please do post pics if you go for it.
Ekofisk
Look what I just did!



Have yet to finish the BZ, but I think I'll do the switch-thing that others have done.
It really is amazingly ease to do this. (Haven't tried them yet, but my multimeter indicates connection on all counts, I am assuming they work)

Not in the picture: VCO and MiniWave. Getting done today.
parasitk
Nice! Definitely add a switch with center-off for the Binary Zone's clock input. And do the pullup resistor trick on the RST input (it's explained somewhere around here...) w00t
Ekofisk
Apart from the I/O, this is last night and tonight. Not too shabby!




And this is the new DAD, built from kit. Actually, it turned into something of a hatchet job, but all fun.
I had to cut one of the banana bushings in half, so the daughterboard is actually not at a right angle to the other board. This made it impossible to use both mounting brackets. Ahh. We'll see how well it all works tomorrow!


DGTom
"one of us one of us"

good work man!

sometimes you need to do wierd things to get it to work, in the case of the DAD I would've substituted the switches for some panel mount toggles & put some spacers in to hold the daughter board away from the panel, may or may not work.

One thing with board mounted parts like that slide switch, if you need to mount them in funny places you can use stripboard & right angle headers etc. to get them off the PCB.

The SPDT C/O on the BZ is well worth it, in fact I'd say even minijackers should do it! Being able to switch the BZ off is great, especially as it kills the Clock Outs so everything down stream can be switched off. Great fun for jamming SlayerBadger!
Ekofisk
Yes, good call on those switches on the DAD. I think I'll give that a try.

And the BZ, of course.
Ekofisk
And it all fucking works!

I discovered a wrongly polarized diode on the I/O just before switching it on. Works like a charm!

Since I do all this DIY stuff at home, and have no real access to the rest of my studio, my patching with these modules is a little limited, but nonetheless, everyone should do this. I don't really have a problem with minijacks, but bananas are WAY cooler.
Ekofisk
Sorry to be hijacking the thread, but as it's all banana relevant, I hope it's ok.

I just got a couple of SPDT/CO switches for my BZ.
For some reason, I just can't seem to "get" how to wire it up.

Sorry, as I know the BZ has been discussed to death in this very thread, but the actual wiring still escapes me.

The switch has three lugs. Which go where?
DGTom
In the case of the BZ its going to use a SPDT as a "2 in, 1 out"

You have 3 wires to connect to it. 1 from the banana & 2 from pads on the board. The clock input pad is connected to the middle lug of the switch & the other 2 go on either side, hope that makes sense hmmm.....
Ekofisk
My new DIY self esteem boost kicked in today, and I tackled the 3P.



Stripping away the daughterboard and wiring up those inputs!



New members to the team, KW and MP, meeting up with the newly finished BZ.
(note the remains of the minijack 3p laying at their feet!)

Ekofisk
Probably not that exciting to anyone, as these are available in banana anyway, but this what I did last night (minus the DAD).



Hope I'll be able to replace those military greens with something a bit more... bug-friendly, soon.
BugBrand
You machine!

Wunderbar!
(good to see the bugmodules taken back to their proper ways!)
DGTom
lol

What an odd journey those have taken!

Love the pile of discarded Blacet minijacks in the corner of the pic! applause
alesauskas
This thread is great info for a newbie, thanks for the sticky!
otoskope
Just to wake up this thread a little...I've been successfully bananafying (bananifying?) the following modules the last few days (all frac):

Bananalogue VCS
Encore Freq Shifter
2xPlague Bearer
Blacet VCO
Blacet Freq Divider (old version)
Oakley RM-4014 Ringmod
Metalbox/CGS Dual Real Ring Mod (in rack ear)
Metalbox/CGS ASR (in rack ear)

If someone's interested, I could post pictures and some comments regarding encountered peculiarities (but don't have the time today).

/Palle
zerosum
Quote:
I've been successfully bananafying (bananifying?)

hihi

Quote:
If someone's interested, I could post pictures and some comments regarding encountered peculiarities (but don't have the time today).


Definitely post them thumbs up

I'm too unmotivated to do any of these mods myself at the moment,
but I still want to see someone else do it so I can pretend like I will
motivate myself enough to do it someday. hihi lol
reignbear
anyone had any experience with banana-fying the frac frequesnsteiner? i don't have one, but might have a chance to pick one up to play with the BugBrand!
BananaPlug
I've had one of these for a while. I gather it was not a wildly popular module but I like it.


It just needed some compression! applause
nanners Now what do you think?
Cat-A-Tonic
^ You read my mind in regards to panel-width.

Nice solution for the effect type legending. thumbs up

Does it really sound that nice?
I was kind of turned off by the digital multi-effects concept,
but I understand putting them in earlier parts of a patch
might be the context that can make this cool.
BananaPlug
There are cheesier digital effects out there. It does have some of the hallmarks of a dinky little digi unit but it's useful. The fact that it has a clip LED and level controls for in and out makes the limited headroom very easy to live with. The 2 echo modes and the reverb are what I use the most. I have this and a spring reverb in my portable and they complement each other well. The 3030's reverb has a very neutral color to it and a touch of graininess. Real different from the spring. With each reverb on a different patch there's nice separation and sometimes I use them together on the same patch. The max echo delay time seems a tad longer than the 1 sec it's supposed to be. Modulating that rate produces little ticks but the other CVs work pretty cleanly. For live hands-on playing I like that I can adjust an effect, reverb and level all in one place.
synthcube
anyone know the precise diameters for panel holes for the standard 3.5mm jacks vs the bananas? I know the 3.5mm holes can be reamed out pretty easy, but curious about what the actual delta is
Ted2
Contemplating removing all of my Blacet panels and replacing them with some home-made ones, with banana jacks. A little bit terrified to do so though, I am very inexperienced with DIY.
dogoftears


i'll never get over how tits this filter sounds.
otoskope
Yes, my favorite, too! Along with the Bugbrand SV filter. One nasty, one elegant.

You can use the Borg as a great LPG, as an fx (great distortion), as an oscillator (screeeeeaming), and as a VCA (waste of space). And - as a FILTER! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!

/Palle
otoskope
synthcube wrote:
anyone know the precise diameters for panel holes for the standard 3.5mm jacks vs the bananas? I know the 3.5mm holes can be reamed out pretty easy, but curious about what the actual delta is


It depends - different jacks have different diameters. I use the same banana jacks as Bugbrand uses, which are solid brass - more dififcult to solder, but last a lifetime. I usually have to drill an 8mm hole for them. Usually the minijacks are around 6mm. But it varies. I've got best results with this kind of drill:



But sometimes this is enough:

BananaPlug
Final Filter - half size It's peanut butter jelly time!

The downsizing requires giving up the EG ouput and the switch for LFO/AD mode.
dogoftears
so has any one successfully converted a JAG? i just was examining it today and realizing that the banana sockets would create too much of a gap between the board and the faceplate, thus causing the LED's, single pot, and single switch to not make it through.

Any suggestions? I pretty much *need* this thing with nanas as it eats conversion cables for breakfast which really upsets my workflow.
reignbear
dogoftears wrote:
so has any one successfully converted a JAG? i just was examining it today and realizing that the banana sockets would create too much of a gap between the board and the faceplate, thus causing the LED's, single pot, and single switch to not make it through.

Any suggestions? I pretty much *need* this thing with nanas as it eats conversion cables for breakfast which really upsets my workflow.


only one i know of was done by the bugmaster. i remember in an older thread he said it looked grimm, but eventually did one for indexofmetals (which he sold when i was of course broke)...
dogoftears
reignbear wrote:
dogoftears wrote:
so has any one successfully converted a JAG? i just was examining it today and realizing that the banana sockets would create too much of a gap between the board and the faceplate, thus causing the LED's, single pot, and single switch to not make it through.

Any suggestions? I pretty much *need* this thing with nanas as it eats conversion cables for breakfast which really upsets my workflow.


only one i know of was done by the bugmaster. i remember in an older thread he said it looked grimm, but eventually did one for indexofmetals (which he sold when i was of course broke)...


right, did a bit of searching and saw Tom post about it, seems he had to somehow cut into the PCB a bit to fit the jacks! i just e-mailed him to enquire further, but also did some of my own brain-racking on the matter and thought... maybe it'd be easier to somehow sand down the nana jacks... they only need another mm or so and then everything will be gravy. i thought of replacing the LED's, switch, and pot, but they are all in the very dense SMT section of the board and i'd rather not mess around over there.

has any one every successfully shortened a nana jack? ive got the rapid/bug style ones. easiest way?
radams
I have a JAG Tom converted to bananas . He did cut away the pcb at the edges . I will post some pics when I ca . It might be a few days though .
reignbear
dogoftears wrote:

has any one every successfully shortened a nana jack? ive got the rapid/bug style ones. easiest way?


dremel?

i wonder how short you could go? since this is one of the bigger headaches for baananafy-ing certain modules...
dogoftears
radams wrote:
I have a JAG Tom converted to bananas . He did cut away the pcb at the edges . I will post some pics when I ca . It might be a few days though .


pretty please!
BananaPlug
Haven't done the JAG but yes, that sort of thing has been done. Here's the solution. w00t
otoskope
I also have a JAG bananafied (I believe) by Tom Bugs, which I acquired from ekofisk. Here are a couple of (lousy mobile) pictures:




/Palle
dogoftears
wow. this is going to be a mission.

BananaPlug- the problem with your method is then the JAG will be held to the FP with just one floating pot and a tiny switch. that just don't seem right.

Otoskope- wow. just wow. i don't know if i have the heart to slice up my JAG like that. BUT it does allow the jacks to still provide support for the board...

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
radams
Thanks Palle - that's exactly the same as mine .
Tom warned me that it was not an elegant solution !
Well worth it though . Quad sines are a nice pairing !
BananaPlug
dogoftears wrote:
BananaPlug- the problem with your method is then the JAG will be held to the FP with just one floating pot and a tiny switch. that just don't seem right.

I see what you're up against. If you can somehow attach the board to a bracket, the banana plugs can secure the bracket to the panel. Though I like the way Palle's was done.
hmmm.....
Chaotic
My first frac modules bananafied. It's peanut butter jelly time!
I have a 3U rack with frac modules. They have been sitting under the work bench since I started with Serge. Had 9U but had to sell some of it to finance the Serge.
Finally I have decided to bananafy them and let them talk to Serge.

Chaotic
Done


And here are audio from the patch on the pic. Self playing, no hands involved hihi
[s]http://soundcloud.com/chaotic-morphs/fracking-test-of-frac-rack[/s]
J3RK
These aren't conversions, but I love this thread. Thought I'd drop in some of the pics I have up right now. w00t







otoskope
If you, like me, want to use the fantastic yellow tube-modules from Metasonix (R- and RK-series) together with your bananafrac, I found a very simple way to convert them. Take a look at the HOW-TO here:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=163640
(Don't want multiple threads, but I thought many of you don't read the Metasonix subforum)

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