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The New Buchla Music Easel
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 42, 43, 44, 45  Next [all]
Author The New Buchla Music Easel
mudlogger
skkatter wrote:
mudlogger wrote:
On his model it didn't even have the Fairchild Ua 726.

According to Rick on this forum, the later versions of the original 208 (the top half of the Easel) also didn't use the UA726, but substituted it:

"early and later revs are actually quite similar on all boards except the VCO cards... early revs used the UA726/DG200 not unlike the 258 where A versions switched to the AD811 & 821 which were also used in the 259..i am not sure but believe the wavefolder is different between the 2 revs but sound similar to my ears.. some supply lines were also dropped between revs as noted on the schematics

over production there were several resistor value updates, capacitor kludges to reduce noise and some trace updates between the early run and As

it should be noted that several (if not all) of the 208s that left the factory had a wrong resistor value stuffed in the Reverb section.. there are also some mods that reduce output/reverb driver noise.."


Thanks, but I'm talking about BEMI Easels, not original Revs - There are BEMI Easels with the UA726 and some without on the new ones. Not sure the reason for the change.

I've attached some of the Instagram links - there's a lot more detail on Facebook, but it gives you the general idea :

https://instagram.com/p/3Mf3GdHjrZ/
https://instagram.com/p/3O9tQenjsR/
https://instagram.com/p/3O6__THjnj/
https://instagram.com/p/3McZQaHjkr/
https://instagram.com/p/3B3rFKHjgp/
skkatter
I'd say the main reason for any change is because the UA726 is pretty rare. Do you think there'd be a significant sound difference without it?
MechaSeb
UA726 doesn't impact sound (meaning timbre). It's a matched transistor pair with built-in heater for temperatute stability. It's mostly responsible of tracking in analog synth design. So i guess almost any super matched transistor should work here. BEMI are using SSM2212 (using a SMT to Thru-Hole little PCB) afaik now instead of the UA726. It sounds a logical and smart way to contains manufacturing cost.
papz
Indeed, even if this does not prevent some to claim NOS UA726's sound more musical hihi
MechaSeb
papz wrote:
some to claim NOS UA726's sound more musical


d'oh! d'oh! hihi hihi
3001
skkatter wrote:
I'd say the main reason for any change is because the UA726 is pretty rare. Do you think there'd be a significant sound difference without it?


I had two easels from BEMI, One which I traded to Lowgain who saw the uA726 missing, which had tons of issues. Luckily Logan fixed most of them. And I had an Easel I had purchased earlier I sold to a fellow from Sweden. The One sent to Sweden sounded better to me. This might of had the uA726. It had something that was for sure. The latter one without the ua726(well confirmed without it) I really was not into. I was actually amazed at the build quality. My first one was built great, and the second one , not so much. hmm.
M-Prod
jimmyambulance wrote:
Kingnimrod wrote:
Low-Gain posted a lot on Facebook recently about the poor construction and components of the easel, and improvements he made to his.


any link to that post? i'd love to see his improvements.


I think he is referring to this unit:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140962&highlight=

I contaced BEMI about this and the told me all of this has all been fixed for some time (the easel that Low gain bought was an old one).
clarte
M-Prod wrote:
jimmyambulance wrote:
Kingnimrod wrote:
Low-Gain posted a lot on Facebook recently about the poor construction and components of the easel, and improvements he made to his.


any link to that post? i'd love to see his improvements.


I think he is referring to this unit:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140962&highlight=

I contaced BEMI about this and the told me all of this has all been fixed for some time (the easel that Low gain bought was an old one).


Trax is posting his findings comparing the easel above, new bemi stock and some other versions any day now
elmegil
clarte wrote:
M-Prod wrote:
jimmyambulance wrote:
Kingnimrod wrote:
Low-Gain posted a lot on Facebook recently about the poor construction and components of the easel, and improvements he made to his.


any link to that post? i'd love to see his improvements.


I think he is referring to this unit:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140962&highlight=

I contaced BEMI about this and the told me all of this has all been fixed for some time (the easel that Low gain bought was an old one).


Trax is posting his findings comparing the easel above, new bemi stock and some other versions any day now


That'd be very interesting, because honestly, I've worked for hardware vendors (in computers), and just because they SAY it's been all fixed in the newer releases does NOT mean that it necessarily has. Would like something other than the say so of those with a vested interest to confirm....
ttown23
MechaSeb wrote:
UA726 doesn't impact sound (meaning timbre). It's a matched transistor pair with built-in heater for temperatute stability. It's mostly responsible of tracking in analog synth design. So i guess almost any super matched transistor should work here. BEMI are using SSM2212 (using a SMT to Thru-Hole little PCB) afaik now instead of the UA726. It sounds a logical and smart way to contains manufacturing cost.


With all due respect, I have a different view.

While I agree that the heated UA726 is mostly used for tracking of analog OSCs, the subtle differences in tracking as mediated by the UA726 *DO* have an impact on the sound of the VCO.

I have heard this with my own ears, many times, not only in vintage Buchla and Buchla OSC clones that I have built, but also in vintage synths like the Korg Trident. It's the subtleties and imperfections inherent to the UA726 that add to the warmth of the tone.
MikeCalvert
ok so how are we to know ? im interested in getting on and saw this listing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buchla-Music-Easel-/221832364713?

but in light of all this ... ?
M-Prod
elmegil wrote:
clarte wrote:
M-Prod wrote:
jimmyambulance wrote:
Kingnimrod wrote:
Low-Gain posted a lot on Facebook recently about the poor construction and components of the easel, and improvements he made to his.


any link to that post? i'd love to see his improvements.


I think he is referring to this unit:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140962&highlight=

I contaced BEMI about this and the told me all of this has all been fixed for some time (the easel that Low gain bought was an old one).


Trax is posting his findings comparing the easel above, new bemi stock and some other versions any day now


That'd be very interesting, because honestly, I've worked for hardware vendors (in computers), and just because they SAY it's been all fixed in the newer releases does NOT mean that it necessarily has. Would like something other than the say so of those with a vested interest to confirm....


Ok so let's stay sceptical until we get proof from Trax although i tend to believe Alex . I also requested information about current delivery time. They said 3-4 weeks (for parts to arrive and building will start), but i am also monitoring James Meekers' thread to see when his easel arrives (it's been 16 weeks now).

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electroni c-music-production/997314-getting-buchla-easel.html

I read the LEM 208 is in stock so it does seem things are heading the right direction.
ttown23
M-Prod wrote:


I read the LEM 208 is in stock so it does seem things are heading the right direction.


Yes, the LEM 208 is in stock. It's not the 208 portion that's at issue; its the 218 keyboard. Please see my post in the other thread.
legionhwp
Does anyone know for sure if the LEM 208 has the same in/outputs side panel in the case as the BEMI Easel (including Midi)? Also can you put a BEMI 218 in there at a later time (effectively have a full complete exact BEMI Easel) instead of 200e modules?

There aren't any side pics on the web site so I wrote BEMI specifically asking these questions weeks ago. No reply so I figured I'd try here.

I like the idea of adding a 259e or mixing and matching the 218 or other 200e modules even more than the standard Easel but it's not clear if you can have both.




ttown23 wrote:
M-Prod wrote:


I read the LEM 208 is in stock so it does seem things are heading the right direction.


Yes, the LEM 208 is in stock. It's not the 208 portion that's at issue; its the 218 keyboard. Please see my post in the other thread.
synthi
MechaSeb wrote:
UA726 doesn't impact sound (meaning timbre). It's a matched transistor pair with built-in heater for temperatute stability. It's mostly responsible of tracking in analog synth design. So i guess almost any super matched transistor should work here. BEMI are using SSM2212 (using a SMT to Thru-Hole little PCB) afaik now instead of the UA726. It sounds a logical and smart way to contains manufacturing cost.


I see in the BEMI SSM2212 to UA726 adapter an "R1" marking with two unused holes at the top and bottom of the SSM... Also I know the UA726 have temp compensation built in...

My question is, have the SSM temp stability built in as well? Maybe that R1 must be a tempco in direct contact with the SSM IC?

My easel tracks fine past 20-30 minutes, and I see thats a lot of time, even more that my Synthi... I`m using it in the studio, but that would be a potential problem for live use. Maybe mine have that SSM adapter inside and it would need a tempco resistor that is NOT installed???? eek! hmmm.....
thiagozt
Hey legionhwp,

I did just that. I ordered a LEM208 and bought the 218 from a wiggler. I asked Alex from BEMI for some extra screws. When it arrived I just put it in there and worked as expected. The LEM208 is basically an easel without the 218, so it has the midi connections on the side and everything, the case is the same. Short answer is: Yes MY ASS IS BLEEDING
thesnow
I love my easel and its case it comes with! it only cost me 1000.

synthi
synthi wrote:
MechaSeb wrote:
UA726 doesn't impact sound (meaning timbre). It's a matched transistor pair with built-in heater for temperatute stability. It's mostly responsible of tracking in analog synth design. So i guess almost any super matched transistor should work here. BEMI are using SSM2212 (using a SMT to Thru-Hole little PCB) afaik now instead of the UA726. It sounds a logical and smart way to contains manufacturing cost.


I see in the BEMI SSM2212 to UA726 adapter an "R1" marking with two unused holes at the top and bottom of the SSM... Also I know the UA726 have temp compensation built in...

My question is, have the SSM temp stability built in as well? Maybe that R1 must be a tempco in direct contact with the SSM IC?

My easel tracks fine past 20-30 minutes, and I see thats a lot of time, even more that my Synthi... I`m using it in the studio, but that would be a potential problem for live use. Maybe mine have that SSM adapter inside and it would need a tempco resistor that is NOT installed???? eek! hmmm.....


I openen my easel today and I can confirm that it have the SSM adapter with the ssm2212 in both principal and mod oscillators.
It took more than one hour to get a stable octave scaling so I`m still thinking must be a tempco somewhere if the ua726 is not used, anyone with the technical knowledge can comment on that??? help
ttown23
synthi wrote:
synthi wrote:
MechaSeb wrote:
UA726 doesn't impact sound (meaning timbre). It's a matched transistor pair with built-in heater for temperatute stability. It's mostly responsible of tracking in analog synth design. So i guess almost any super matched transistor should work here. BEMI are using SSM2212 (using a SMT to Thru-Hole little PCB) afaik now instead of the UA726. It sounds a logical and smart way to contains manufacturing cost.


I see in the BEMI SSM2212 to UA726 adapter an "R1" marking with two unused holes at the top and bottom of the SSM... Also I know the UA726 have temp compensation built in...

My question is, have the SSM temp stability built in as well? Maybe that R1 must be a tempco in direct contact with the SSM IC?

My easel tracks fine past 20-30 minutes, and I see thats a lot of time, even more that my Synthi... I`m using it in the studio, but that would be a potential problem for live use. Maybe mine have that SSM adapter inside and it would need a tempco resistor that is NOT installed???? eek! hmmm.....


I openen my easel today and I can cofirm that it have the SSM adapter with the ssm2212 in both principal and mod oscillators.
It took more than one hour to get a stable octave scaling so I`m still thinking must be a tempco somewhere if the ua726 is not used, anyone with the technical knowledge can comment on that??? help


Typically a UA726HC is used along with a TEMPCO. Actually, I tend to mount the TEMPCO right atop the UA726HC itself, for best tracking results. I am not familiar with the SSM2212, but if it is sub serving the same function as the UA726HC, then I see no reason why a TEMPCO shouldn't be present.
synthi
Thanks ttown, thats what I think... the hole for "R1" in the ssm adapter are in top and bottom of the IC, seem to be specially made so the R1 will be on top of the IC, just as you say:
https://instagram.com/p/3Mf3GdHjrZ/
But I don´t know where those R1 pads go, I can´t see under the little pcb...
Also, does the 208R (v1 or v2)have tempcos along the ua726?

Thanks!
ttown23
synthi wrote:
Thanks ttown, thats what I think... the hole for "R1" in the ssm adapter are in top and bottom of the IC, seem to be specially made so the R1 will be on top of the IC, just as you say:
https://instagram.com/p/3Mf3GdHjrZ/
But I don´t know where those R1 pads go, I can´t see under the little pcb...
Also, does the 208R (v1 or v2)have tempcos along the ua726?

Thanks!


It is possible. Without looking at a schematic, it would be hard to tell 100%, though. Then there is the question of whether it is a PTC or NTC tempco. Buchla designs *usually* use PTC TEMPCOs, but again, without looking at a schematic, it would be hard to tell.

208r rev. 1 does not use a UA726HC. While the 208r rev. 2 does us the UA726HC, I don't believe that a TEMPCO is used in that circuit.
MechaSeb
No need to have two tempco into the circuit !
(UA726HC contains already a Tempco which is sufficient)

Also SSM2212 seems to not have tempco built into.
Though reading the datasheets, the offset voltage drift is quite impressive (0.03 μV/°).
Knarzwaltz
3001 wrote:
skkatter wrote:
I'd say the main reason for any change is because the UA726 is pretty rare. Do you think there'd be a significant sound difference without it?


I had two easels from BEMI, One which I traded to Lowgain who saw the uA726 missing, which had tons of issues. Luckily Logan fixed most of them. And I had an Easel I had purchased earlier I sold to a fellow from Sweden. The One sent to Sweden sounded better to me. This might of had the uA726. It had something that was for sure. The latter one without the ua726(well confirmed without it) I really was not into. I was actually amazed at the build quality. My first one was built great, and the second one , not so much. hmm.


Still have it, and yes it sounds great. I can confirm that it has the UA726 and do not have the problems that your second had.
MechaSeb
I personally would take extremely precaution of the direct statement that your Easel had tracking problems because it hasn't UA726 installed. This might sounds very true at first but there is a lot of other reasons your own CO couldn't track well apart from the UA (ground problem, bad soldering etc.).

Also, you should take into account calibration when comparing two instruments. I'm not saying there isn't differences between two instruments which should "theorically" sounds the same but from one to another, calibration trimmer settings can make great differences.
captnapalm
MechaSeb wrote:
I personally would take extremely precaution of the direct statement that your Easel had tracking problems because it hasn't UA726 installed. This might sounds very true at first but there is a lot of other reasons your own CO couldn't track well apart from the UA (ground problem, bad soldering etc.).

Also, you should take into account calibration when comparing two instruments. I'm not saying there isn't differences between two instruments which should "theorically" sounds the same but from one to another, calibration trimmer settings can make great differences.


Agreed. My original early Easel never tracked all that well with its ua726s either. In fact, I've heard that the later versions without 726s were more stable.
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