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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Rene touch plate sensitivity
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author Rene touch plate sensitivity
Waz
Is there a trimpot on the back to adjust the sensitivity on the Makenoise Rene? Mine is very unresponsive and the one on the front of the panel seems not to be enough. I have to use a large portion of my finger for it to register any of the touches.
chrisso
Some Rene's do not seem to respond to dry hands.
infradead
my hands are always to dry, my kids has no issues most of the time so i know its me if a 3 year old can make it look easy...
Waz
So the answer is; Moisturize!!!!
infradead
Waz wrote:
So the answer is; Moisturize!!!!


False!

Hire a three year old!
xart
Waz wrote:
So the answer is; Moisturize!!!!


Yep...lick your fingers.

This is why I will NEVER buy used MakeNoise PP or Rene stuff.....they all have spit all over them. thumbs up


(i never had to lick my TKB - not even once)
triplizard
I had the same issue and contacted Tony about this. First of all check your grounding - Rene is sensitive to poor grounding. I had it plugged into a crappy power strip and when I plugged it straight into the wall it got 90% better. Secondarily, moisturize a little before playing (I.e. Give the moisturizer a few minutes to sink in so you're not smearing it on.) Licking your fingers has to be repeated every little while and gets spit on the module. Moisturizing lasts a long time and won't leave a residue. Also use the meat of your finger instead of the tip of you can.
TestSetRadio
this thread made me nauseous.
archerofloaf
I've heard about this problem before. Thankfully I have juicy fingertips.

woah
Waz
Disinfecting my 2nd hand module. I don't want the herpes.
strettara
I don't have plampy hands (plagued by dry skin, if anything), but I've noticed a couple of times in performance that the PP's stop responding predictably. Presumably I sweat a bit more when all excited by my artistry. Just wiping the contact surfaces off with a cloth solves the problem. So too much moisture seems to be a bad thing too. Can't imagine what it'd be like using this stuff in Calcutta.

I generally keep the back panel trimmer to 50% and the front panel pot to 100%, but when rehearsing/performing I tune the front pot down a bit, as far as 70% or so.
leesparey
strettara wrote:


I generally keep the back panel trimmer to 50% and the front panel pot to 100%, but when rehearsing/performing I tune the front pot down a bit, as far as 70% or so.


Hi there Strettara, can I ask how you access the back panel trimmer please? I can't see where it is on mine.

Thanks.
exmd
There's a back panel trimmer? I have this problem with my Rene but not my pressure points. I used moisturize non-stop
Leverkusen
exmd wrote:
There's a back panel trimmer? I have this problem with my Rene but not my pressure points. I used moisturize non-stop


It's the rightmost pot on the control panel. Try it in a few different positions - simply setting it to the maximum may not give the desired effect. That's what MN wrote me.
Summa
Leverkusen wrote:
exmd wrote:
There's a back panel trimmer? I have this problem with my Rene but not my pressure points. I used moisturize non-stop


It's the rightmost pot on the control panel. Try it in a few different positions - simply setting it to the maximum may not give the desired effect. That's what MN wrote me.


That woukd be the front trimmer, not the BACK trimmer. And I have no idea if there is one, checked the manual and nothing is stated about a back panel trimmer like the one on the pressure points... on a PP it was just a matter of turning it way up on the back and then dial it down on the front for the dsired effect... I wouldn't use moisturizer nor lick my fingers while playing, especially not LIVE(!) screaming goo yo
Leverkusen
d'oh!
READYdot
I got my third René, and I don't have issues with this one, the others were a pain and zero responsive...
leesparey
leesparey wrote:
strettara wrote:


I generally keep the back panel trimmer to 50% and the front panel pot to 100%, but when rehearsing/performing I tune the front pot down a bit, as far as 70% or so.


Hi there Strettara, can I ask how you access the back panel trimmer please? I can't see where it is on mine.

Thanks.


Sorry, just realised Strettara was talking about PP not Rene.
exmd
READYdot wrote:
I got my third René, and I don't have issues with this one, the others were a pain and zero responsive...


Did you exchange them ?
Adamalthus
READYdot wrote:
I got my third René, and I don't have issues with this one, the others were a pain and zero responsive...


Looks like I'm going to have to go the same route. Mine is completely non-responsive - irrespective of pot settings - unless I do the 'licking the fingers' thing. I was messing around with the one the Control guys have on display and it responds perfectly.
chinard
southphillysynths
this is very strange, makes me hisitate getting a pressure points... I seem to remember at a synth meet a guy had rene and pressure points in a system and the rene worked great but the pressurepoints didnt... maybe it was the grounding issue.
adolfgottmann
PP works like a charm for me, but only with the sensitivity pot set fully CW or so
Rene is a bit less keen to be touched
Pity Snakefinger is dead hihi
Madrayken
New Rene is quite unresponsive, with outbreaks of over-responsive. I'm looking at the manual and can't see what the little knob marked '9' does! Any clues if that is sensitivity setting or something?
Madrayken
Double post!
kisielk
Yes, 9 is the sensitivity setting.
Daisuk
My Pressure Points is super sensitive, but Rene is goddamn annoying. Especially the menu-plates. I almost need to press them with the palm of my hands to make them react. Really annoying. I don't have particularly dry fingers/hands either.
L.C.O.
kisielk wrote:
Yes, 9 is the sensitivity setting.



t h e o r e t i c a l l y ... :-)
Madrayken
Hmm. So much for converting my rig to a touch-performance modular.
kisielk
It may work fine for you, I have zero problems with touch on either Rene or Pressure Points.
negativspace
Same here. Couldn't do without either module.
onthelees
Madrayken wrote:
New Rene is quite unresponsive, with outbreaks of over-responsive. I'm looking at the manual and can't see what the little knob marked '9' does! Any clues if that is sensitivity setting or something?


I have the sensitivity turned all the way up, and I still have the same problem. I really like Rene as a sequencer, but any sort of performance scenario is out due to complete un-predictabiltiy of response.
gonkulator
I haven't adjusted the sensitivity yet, hopefully that will make it easier to use. I dont suppose cleaning the contacts will help? Other than grease/grime, I assume there is no oxidation to deal with?
ersatzplanet
Madrayken wrote:
Hmm. So much for converting my rig to a touch-performance modular.


Just look at Synthwerks FSR-4, FSR-1T, FSR-1N, FSR-2P. All use Force Sensing Resistors and are not affected at all by skin moisture. In fact you can use gloves, put rubber pads on them to adjust the feel, and even play them with mallets (if you protect them with rubber pads). The Synthwerks FSR modules don't have the three rows of programmable CV outs like the PP does but do offer some other features.
yawn_g
i had problems with mine until i placed the 4 screws instead of just 2
nofuture
I would be interested to know which PSU you use, I have some problem too with my PP.
doobedy
That's what impresses me most about the Easel. It's a hell of a lot more responsive than my PP or Rene, and makes me sad they don't act the same way.
Daisuk
So there's no real explanation of what the right-most pot of the Rene does (it's just not mentioned in the manual, except given a reference number 9, which there is no description for). I tried adjusting it just now to see if it had anything to do with sensitivity, but it sure doesn't seem that way. seriously, i just don't get it
simonhold
Just chiming in because I seem to have the opposite problem. My PP pressure out is way too sensitive for my often slightly moist hands, even with the front and back trims adjusted to compensate for this. I guess capacitance resistance isn't for the very wet nor dry of hands.

I do use my PP a lot though, as 'preset' bank so I have yet to get rid of it as it serves a purpose.
mckenic
Sorry for OT and sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.

Not related to this thread (but timely none the less!) my Rene was a bit grubby from dust and under use - I took her apart to clean the front panel and saw 'Expander' on the back... What gives?

Sorry again for OT!
thumbs up
yerpa58
It helps to install all four mounting screws, and ground the rack rails so that DC ground is the same as earth ground. This normally happens with aluminum faceplates unless they are anodized or coated to make them non-conductive.

I use a power supply with a three-prong AC plug. I've never used sliding rack nuts, maybe they don't ground the module faceplates as well as normal screws.
Micro Stuart
I've had mixed results feeling u my rene as well. Last night I tried turning down pot 9, and it started becoming more responsive. It may be true what Tony said (about his product), that turning up pot 9 to the max may not give the desired result. Play with the levels and see what works best for you!
Daisuk
I've had the screws on my Rene connected a bit loose, because I haven't had any washers for it (wouldn't want any rack rash in case I'm going to sell it down the line), but got some washers for it today, and fastened the screws tight - and there's definitely a difference in sensitivity. A lot better, in fact. smile
thermionicjunky
mckenic wrote:
Sorry for OT and sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.

Not related to this thread (but timely none the less!) my Rene was a bit grubby from dust and under use - I took her apart to clean the front panel and saw 'Expander' on the back... What gives?

Sorry again for OT!
:tu:


If some very old rumors are true, it's for another set of pots and outputs. Hopefully this will surface after the current wave of new modules.
mckenic
thermionicjunky wrote:
mckenic wrote:
Sorry for OT and sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.

Not related to this thread (but timely none the less!) my Rene was a bit grubby from dust and under use - I took her apart to clean the front panel and saw 'Expander' on the back... What gives?

Sorry again for OT!
thumbs up


If some very old rumors are true, it's for another set of pots and outputs. Hopefully this will surface after the current wave of new modules.


thumbs up
Ah thank you!

Interest piqued!!!
scottmoon
I think maybe another part of the problem is we all have different body chemistry and conductivity. I have a friend that can't use computer or iPad touch screens as they just don't respond to his touch. I watched him pushing harder and harder trying to get it to respond when pressure shouldn't matter. I have another friend that has to change his guitar strings after playing for a few hours, as they turn green with corrosion. Nobody will let him touch their guitars.
pxlsndworlock
srsonido
Well, as it regards the conductivity of the faceplate, I don't think Rene's faceplate is aluminum, it feels like circuit board material to me - probably fiberglass based. I don't think that the full faceplate is designed to be conductive with the exception of the touch pads themselves which appear to be created by etching like std circuit board traces.

However, on my Rene, it looks like the screw holes are plated through, and have a small ring of conductive area around the edge, top and bottom, which looks like it may be designed to make electrical contact with the screw heads. Following that theory, "properly" installed screws may press those conductive rings on the bottom side, more tightly against the mounting rails. If making contact between that small conductive ring and the mounting rails changes something in the circuit, then that may explain what Daisuk is observing. In that circumstance however, using nylon washers would probably insulate the screw heads from the conductive ring on the top and could reduce the effectiveness of the screws themselves to conduct. Similarly, tightening also would have no effect when the Rene is installed in a fully wooden enclosure like some of the wooden rail skiffs sold specifically for these modules. The function of that through hole plating is all conjecture based on my observation of the Rene's main faceplate board. It would be great if Tony, or someone else who knows exactly how the Rene's design is supposed to work, could chime in here and tell us exactly what needs to be grounded and to where. What is going on electrically?
maudibe
For sure I have just tried turning the adjust knob down and it works better smile

There IS a sweet spot. However, I still find I have to lick my finger... but the effect now lasts longer applause

I suppose a version with tactile switches would be out of the question ; tact switches are those really tiny ones you see in Mouser - intended to be used underneath a button really, but would be a major improvement here.

Perhaps some enterprising person could make a tact switch overlay?
maudibe
If there is a Rene' update on the horizon then my 2 wishes would be:

1/ switches as mentioned in previous post.

2/ legends in clear font and horizontally aligned.

Then I reckon it would be near as damn perfect.
gonkulator
maudibe wrote:
If there is a Rene' update on the horizon then my 2 wishes would be:

1/ switches as mentioned in previous post.

2/ legends in clear font and horizontally aligned.

Then I reckon it would be near as damn perfect.


applause thumbs up applause thumbs up applause thumbs up
srsonido
I think the #9 / sensitivity pot may give varying results based on the overall environment. I have tried adjusting that pot on several different Rene units to no avail. If there is a sweet spot I can't find one. There is a similar pot on the Pressure Points module and that one makes a big difference. But on the Rene, not so much. I guess YMMV.

What I have noticed, however, is that if I touch some of the metal hardware on the Rene faceplate with one hand - like pressing thumb and forefinger to the assembly screw (not the mounting screw, the other one right above that) and clock in jack - while using the other hand to tap the pads, my Rene sensitivity improves noticeably.
maudibe
Just tried that srsonido... don't work for me confused
maudibe
Ode to the Make Noise Rene'


Oh I wish my Rene' would take my finger
Without me having to lick it
Please fit some switches and fix the text
It will stop me feckin' kickin' it.



8_)
srsonido
[quote="maudibe"]Just tried that srsonido... don't work for me :confused:[/quote]

Sorry, but not surprised. The Rene seems to have many variations in behavior.

FWIW, I did notice that initially the assembly screws on my Rene unit were not fully torqued (the ones that mount the faceplate to the main board through standoffs). I tightened those down before trying this experiment with touching grounds. I think those provide a connection to the ground plane so there might be something there, just a thought.

I think what is happening with mine is that by touching the grounded hardware I am creating an alternate path to the ground plane because when I do so, I only have to contact the center traces of the touch pads to trigger them. Interestingly, I can actually use the tip of a metal screwdriver to tap those center traces lightly and trigger them if my fingers are touching the metal of the screw driver. I'm going to go check this behavior on another friends Rene this evening. Will post results.

I don't seem to be able to post pictures on the forum, not sure why, probably don't have enough posts yet or something, but I'm going to make a short video demonstrating some of these behaviors soon.
srsonido
maudibe wrote:
Just tried that srsonido... don't work for me :confused:


Well, propelled by your comment I stopped by a friends house who has another Rene, to try out the ground holding trick I mentioned. His Rene is completely unresponsive without licking fingers, I mean it just will not respond to a regular finger tip press at all!

So, I tightened all the screws and measured all the DC stuff I could on the faceplate of his Rene to make sure that the pads were solidly connected to the ground plane etc. From that perspective his Rene module seemed to check out exactly like mine or nearly so. But when I tried the trick of holding one hand on the ground screw with his module, it had no effect. I then Installed my Rene in his rack identical to his and my module not only responded to finger touches, albeit, not light ones, but improved it's sensitivity when I held a ground with the opposite hand. From what I can glean of the mechanisms involved this would suggest that somehow the path to ground through me to my other hand, was lower resistance than across the tip of my fingers, which seems counter intuitive.

I'm trying to engage Tony in some conversation about this. Like so many others, I would like to get full functionality from my Rene. Preferably that would be by having the module function as advertized, but if it means adding some sort of breakout panel or optional switches, that would be better than the unresponsive and unreliable system that I and so many others are currently experiencing.

It's such a great module in concept, that only makes it all the worse when it doesn't work to potential.
Daisuk
Try just blowing hot air from your mouth (aka exhaling) on your fingers (thumb is the best finger for me), works wonders here, and no spit involved. wink
L.C.O.
srsonido wrote:
maudibe wrote:
Just tried that srsonido... don't work for me confused


Well, propelled by your comment I stopped by a friends house who has another Rene, to try out the ground holding trick I mentioned. His Rene is completely unresponsive without licking fingers, I mean it just will not respond to a regular finger tip press at all!

So, I tightened all the screws and measured all the DC stuff I could on the faceplate of his Rene to make sure that the pads were solidly connected to the ground plane etc. From that perspective his Rene module seemed to check out exactly like mine or nearly so. But when I tried the trick of holding one hand on the ground screw with his module, it had no effect. I then Installed my Rene in his rack identical to his and my module not only responded to finger touches, albeit, not light ones, but improved it's sensitivity when I held a ground with the opposite hand. From what I can glean of the mechanisms involved this would suggest that somehow the path to ground through me to my other hand, was lower resistance than across the tip of my fingers, which seems counter intuitive.

I'm trying to engage Tony in some conversation about this. Like so many others, I would like to get full functionality from my Rene. Preferably that would be by having the module function as advertized, but if it means adding some sort of breakout panel or optional switches, that would be better than the unresponsive and unreliable system that I and so many others are currently experiencing.

It's such a great module in concept, that only makes it all the worse when it doesn't work to potential.


Good to hear that you are pursuing it further with Tony. Keep it up, and hopefully some sort of improvement can happen! Thank you!
ersatzplanet
Since the front panel of the Rene and PP are PCBs and the pads are lust exposed traces, you can try the old trick that used to be used on PCB edge connectors when they became problematic - I used to have to do this periodically on the presto patches for my Synthis - go over the pads with a standard pencil eraser, the large soft ones are the best. It will take all the oxidation layers of the traces. Be gentle though - you don't want to wear them through.
srsonido
ersatzplanet wrote:
Since the front panel of the Rene and PP are PCBs and the pads are lust exposed traces, you can try the old trick that used to be used on PCB edge connectors when they became problematic - I used to have to do this periodically on the presto patches for my Synthis - go over the pads with a standard pencil eraser, the large soft ones are the best. It will take all the oxidation layers of the traces. Be gentle though - you don't want to wear them through.


Yes, I remember that trick would work for computer cards. It's a good idea and I have already tried it - several times. When I received my first unresponsive Rene I cleaned the pad with a clean cloth, and used a soft eraser as you suggest. That made no difference on the unit I had at the time. I tried this again the other night with my friends unresponsive Rene and same thing, it did not help. It's a a great suggestion and I agree that it's something that anyone with Rene problems should try, but so far, with the Rene's I've encountered oxidation was no the issue.

Also, just to be clear, I have no trouble with my PP, nor have I seen the same kind of issues with that module in general. I believe it is a different sensing circuit however, single pad capacitive maybe, as opposed to the Rene which I believe is "dual pad" resistive. Of course if there were oxidation issues with the PP your eraser trick would probably help there too, I just haven't seen that issue with PP.
southphillysynths
This is starting to sound like the problem vintage video game collectors such as myself are having. As far as cleaning the pads, it's just like cleaning old game cartages. Qtip with rubbing alchahol then maybe a pencil eraser should get as clean as it can be, anything after that must be a problem elsewhere. These things are usually sitting horizontal allowing dust etc. to build up on the contacts keep them clean, might be fine. (Don't own a rene just my 2c)
L.C.O.
southphillysynths wrote:
This is starting to sound like the problem vintage video game collectors such as myself are having. As far as cleaning the pads, it's just like cleaning old game cartages. Qtip with rubbing alchahol then maybe a pencil eraser should get as clean as it can be, anything after that must be a problem elsewhere. These things are usually sitting horizontal allowing dust etc. to build up on the contacts keep them clean, might be fine. (Don't own a rene just my 2c)


Naaah, it's not about the pads getting obstructed or dirty in any way.... It's a design issue.
xclark
oh man. I just got a Rene after wanting one for a long time. then I discover this issue.

very frustrating

no I don't want to have to lick my finger every time I want to touch something! my hands are not dry at all. why is it that some Rene's are fine, and others are not? just watch a few seconds of this video (30 seconds in) and you can see Mr. Ciglar just tapping lightly with his fingertips and everything responds as it should. is there really no remedy?

maudibe
I like to lick my fingers
It makes my Rene' work
But then my fingers dry out
It makes me feel a jerk

Now I'm in my 50's
My skin has all gone dry
My Rene' wants me moister
So what on earth to try?

Rockin' Banana!

(after this the verses got a bit smutty, so deleted to protect the innocent)
GNE
I bought a new Rene a few weeks ago.
I have found that not using washers and making sure that the plate is firm against the rails improved the sensitivity almost doube.
srsonido
GNE wrote:
I bought a new Rene a few weeks ago.
I have found that not using washers and making sure that the plate is firm against the rails improved the sensitivity almost doube.


Hi GNE, I have been trying to engage Tony at MakeNoise in a dialog about the Rene for a while. Meanwhile I'm gathering as much information as I can both from my own experience and anecdotally.

With the improvement you have seen from tightening the screws do you still need to lick or moisten your fingers to trigger your Rene reliably?

Would you say that your Rene now functions as well as the one shown in the Cigler videos - does it respond to a light touch; can you wipe your finger quickly across the touch pad grid and trigger several positions in one smooth movement; can you trigger the PGM pads (page selects) solidly and step through the pages one at a time without them scrolling from page to page?

Thanks!
maudibe
Hi GNE - I wonder if conductive metal washers would help in that case? I don't have any to try. Anyone got some and want to give this a go?
GNE
Quote:
GNE wrote:
I bought a new Rene a few weeks ago.
I have found that not using washers and making sure that the plate is firm against the rails improved the sensitivity almost doube.


Hi GNE, I have been trying to engage Tony at MakeNoise in a dialog about the Rene for a while. Meanwhile I'm gathering as much information as I can both from my own experience and anecdotally.

With the improvement you have seen from tightening the screws do you still need to lick or moisten your fingers to trigger your Rene reliably?

Would you say that your Rene now functions as well as the one shown in the Cigler videos - does it respond to a light touch; can you wipe your finger quickly across the touch pad grid and trigger several positions in one smooth movement; can you trigger the PGM pads (page selects) solidly and step through the pages one at a time without them scrolling from page to page? !


The change that was most important was no nylon washers.
I have very dry hands. If I use a little moisturizer before I play, it works every bit as well as in the Cigler videos.

This would be the check list
1. no nylon washers
2. make sure the plate is firm against the rails / use all 4 screws to mount
3. make sure you are using good power / no grounding issues
4. dont use your finger tip, use the flat side [ fingerprint area ]
5 moisturize / dont lick
stike
Maybe Make Noise should get into the moisturizer business or at least include a tube with every Rene.
skyshaver
I have a lot of callous on my fingertips from playing other instruments and I find it affects Rene's responsiveness. I end up using the pinky on my right hand as it's the only callous free finger. Maybe I need to get a cashier's sponge to keep my finger tips moist.
srsonido
@GNE

Thanks for the response. It sounds like you have a relatively good Rene unit. You are lucky.

I have a couple questions / comments about this. No offense meant, just trying to get to get as much accurate information as I can about the problems.

GNE wrote:

1. no nylon washers
2. make sure the plate is firm against the rails / use all 4 screws to mount


Regarding nylon washers, there may be something to that, but it's interesting to note that if you look carefully at the Cigler video, it appears that he IS using nylon washers.

From what I can see, the way the Rene faceplate is constructed (etched) there are conductive areas around the mounting screw holes on both sides of the board, which are themselves, plated through. However, of course the masking on the bottom of the board is higher than that conductive area where the masking was etched away, so without deforming the board those contact areas might not touch the surface they mount against (the rack rails). In that case a conductive metal screw (sans nylon washer) would seem to make a better connection from the ground planes on the board to the rack rails.

Another way of accomplishing this would have been to etch away more of the masking on the bottom of the faceplate so that there were exposed strips of ground plane along the edges to make contact with the rails.

All of this, however, begs the question of why this is necessary as it implies that the ground though the board and power connector is somehow inadequate. And, it doesn't help much with cases that have wooden "rails", of which there are several commercially available.


GNE wrote:

3. make sure you are using good power / no grounding issues


This is good advice in general, but per my comment above, if the ground planes of the board have to be against a metal rail to function, that implies that there is something in the overall grounding scheme - either in the power supply, the Rene, or both - that is not right. The entire bottom side of the Rene faceplate is a ground plane which should be supplying a return to ground for the touch pad circuits so it doesn't seem that a secondary conductor should be needed in that regard.


GNE wrote:

4. dont use your finger tip, use the flat side [ fingerprint area ]
5. moisturize / dont lick


Watch the Cigler video that xclark posted again carefully. Note that the Rene appears to be mounted vertically and Cigler taps lightly with his fingertips. That kind of behavior is what I'm referring too when I ask if your Rene is functioning like Cigler's. The fact that you say you need moisturizer and have to press with the meat of your finger suggests it does not.

The tricky part with the Rene is that it seems there are multiple issues. Yes, grounding might be one of them. Yes, the galvanic response of any individual finger is another variable, BUT I have observed that given an identical environment - that is to say, multiple Rene units in the same rack with the same operator - that some Rene's function COMPLETELY differently than others. On a "good" Rene, one that has a baseline functionality like the one Cigler uses, making some of the changes you recommend may restore it to proper function, which in that case would be very useable. But on a baseline crummy Rene unit, all the care in proper mounting and power requirements will only leave you with a crappy functioning Rene module, properly mounted and powered.

That is the crux of the problem. And that is what needs to be expressed openly here so that new users of the Rene, like xclark, can manage their expectations and prospective buyers are forewarned.
Neekau
Just to add my experience: I've been trying everything mentioned here with my brand new René without success. Moisturing fingers was the only solution to have a proper answer.
As soon as I went to a friend of mine (who has a good electric circuitry with proper grounding in his house, where the appartment I rent has definitely not), and it is day & night: my very dry fingers manage to play René in a perfect way.
I hope you'll find a solution.
GNE
I have only ever had one Rene, the suggestions I made above made a big difference for me. [ without washers made a very noticeable difference, maybe something else changed in the process, but I have no idea what that could be ]



If you are suggesting that not all Rene modules are the same, just ask Tony if he has made any changes to the design.
srsonido
Neekau wrote:
Just to add my experience: I've been trying everything mentioned here with my brand new René without success. Moisturing fingers was the only solution to have a proper answer.
As soon as I went to a friend of mine (who has a good electric circuitry with proper grounding in his house, where the appartment I rent has definitely not), and it is day & night: my very dry fingers manage to play René in a perfect way.
I hope you'll find a solution.


Thank you for this information Neekau.

I see you are in France. May I ask what kind of power supply you use?

Also, when you say, "proper grounding", do yo mean that you are using grounded plugs - ones with a third prong that is tied to earth ground?

Thanks!
L.C.O.
This is the kind of thread that would benefit from someone from Make Noise chiming in with concrete information... rather than people attempting some investigative theories and speculation! It would be good to get some clear responses. Even if it means that they (Make Noise) would need to tell us that it is how the module is designed.

To blame dry skin as a reason why the instrument does not work is just silly. I love Rene, but am still hoping that MN will come forward with some sort of fix to what to me appears to be a design flaw.

This is merely my own experience and opinion, and I am sure that there a plenty of moist-fingered users who see no problem with the design of Rene... alas, I don't think the module was developed only for those blessed with moist skin!... was it?
ersatzplanet
I don't own a Rene but do the pads produce any pressure out? I assume not. In that case I assume all your finger is doing is bridging the gap between the outer and inner traces on the "buttons". The question I have is if those pads are bridged with a light-touch mechanical switch, would it work better? Even a rubberized/carbon switch like on a MMT-8 or such (even though those had problems too) would work. Worth a try for those whose units don't seem to work with other methods.

I wonder if a static discharge wrist lead attached to the cabinet ground would help any too.
Neekau
Quote:
I see you are in France. May I ask what kind of power supply you use?

Also, when you say, "proper grounding", do yo mean that you are using grounded plugs - ones with a third prong that is tied to earth ground?


I use a Doepfer case hooked to a wall plug with a regular IEC cable (3 pins).
However, I suspect my apartment grounding is bad, even if the wall plug has 3 pins. I would not be suprised if I would open it and discover than earth pin is not even plugged to anything (I'm not at home so I can't check).
In France, it is only mandatory to have grounding in kitchen and bathroom (for olders installations). Other rooms are bonus d'oh!
maudibe
How about a conductive thimble for the operators finger?

oops
maudibe
OK - sorry... I had to try it....

Take silver foil and make a thimble for your favourite digit.

It works applause

A development on this idea may be to superglue a 1cm square onto your fingertip.

I have no superglue or would try it lol

Become part of the machine we're not worthy
srsonido
maudibe wrote:
OK - sorry... I had to try it....

Take silver foil and make a thimble for your favourite digit.

It works :yay:

A development on this idea may be to superglue a 1cm square onto your fingertip.

I have no superglue or would try it :lol:

Become part of the machine :hail:


I visited a friend the other evening who was doing the same thing - Foil Finger, da daaaaaaa daat daaa....
srsonido
ersatzplanet wrote:
I don't own a Rene but do the pads produce any pressure out? I assume not. In that case I assume all your finger is doing is bridging the gap between the outer and inner traces on the "buttons". The question I have is if those pads are bridged with a light-touch mechanical switch, would it work better? Even a rubberized/carbon switch like on a MMT-8 or such (even though those had problems too) would work. Worth a try for those whose units don't seem to work with other methods.



No modulation from the Rene pads, just on / off. The pressure points registers a varied touch, but it is a different touch technology all together. Capacitive I think.

I have often thought that something like the conductive rubber touch switch you mention might be a possible work around. That might even be fashioned as a mylar sheet, or similar, to lay over the existing pads somehow.

I have done something similar with the PGM / menu page pads. I have tremendous trouble getting them to work correctly. They do not seem to be debounced well so the inherent intermittence of the finger actuation often sends a burst of triggering that ends up at a different menu page than the one I wanted. As a workaround I have a piece of foil backed tape strategically located over those two pads such that pressing one side or the other (PGM1 or PGM2) gives a solid actuation and I get less of the "switch bounce" behavior.

The heartbreak about the Rene is that it can be a great performance instrument. Theoretically, the low profile touch pads, if implemented properly can provide a very fast, interactive interface - like we see in the Cigler video. But with unresponsive switching it can be hard to use it that way in a time dependent musical composition. Think of it analogous to a MIDI system with extra long latency - you try to invoke a function from the Rene and it takes several tries to get it to trigger, that makes it difficult to perform on the Rene.

ersatzplanet wrote:


I wonder if a static discharge wrist lead attached to the cabinet ground would help any too.


That's an interesting thought.

Something I have tried is holding another metal part of the Rene with one had while touching the pads with the other. On my unit this improves the response a bit, reliably. I have tried this with another Rene unit, however, that one did not improve by grounding the other hand.

I think you are right in your thought that the way the Rene works is the finger bridges the center conductor to the side conductors of the pads. The side conductors seem to be at chassis ground so I think what may be happening is that by providing another path to ground through one hand I give the signal a parallel path that may reduce the resistance enough to improve response. There may be other mechanics at work as well.
srsonido
L.C.O. wrote:
This is the kind of thread that would benefit from someone from Make Noise chiming in with concrete information... rather than people attempting some investigative theories and speculation! It would be good to get some clear responses. Even if it means that they (Make Noise) would need to tell us that it is how the module is designed.

To blame dry skin as a reason why the instrument does not work is just silly. I love Rene, but am still hoping that MN will come forward with some sort of fix to what to me appears to be a design flaw.

This is merely my own experience and opinion, and I am sure that there a plenty of moist-fingered users who see no problem with the design of Rene... alas, I don't think the module was developed only for those blessed with moist skin!... was it?



I couldn't agree more. I have been trying to engage Tony in an honest dialog about the Rene problems. Even offered to help him troubleshoot and find a fix / work around. But so far the answer I get from him is that while he seems sympathetic to my individual troubles, he feels there are far more people without problems than with, and at this point, he does not have the time to deal with the Rene. He has said as much.

I could be wrong, but I think the problem may be more widespread than he is aware. I think that with the benefit of the Cigler "info-mercials" he is probably selling enough units that he is not motivated to put any more effort into the Rene right now. I guess those of us, like xclark, et al, who watch those videos and are disappointed that the reality does not match, just haven't been shouting loud enough.

This is a $500 module for heavens sake!

Perhaps the bottom line is good old caveat emptor...
maudibe
Seriously srsonido - do try the silver foil thimble thing. It would be an absolute boon for live work. A bit of foil and cello-tape and you are good to go.

I know it is a terrible 'compromise' to do this sort of thing, but guitarists have for ever been using plectrums and finger/thumb picks, so it is not that different.

I'll certainly just plonk on the foil when I am into the rene' in future.

I reckon a really nice rubber thimble with some foil stuck to it would look very cool actually smile but perhaps a metallic based tattoo on the end of the digit could be possible

woah
srsonido
maudibe wrote:


I reckon a really nice rubber thimble with some foil stuck to it would look very cool actually smile but perhaps a metallic based tattoo on the end of the digit could be possible

woah


I like it - metallic fingertip tatoos. Now lets see, what is nice and conductive, gold? Probably to expensive. Lead? Nah. There's a tatoo parlor just down the street (isn't here one just down every street...), perhaps they will know.

Thanks!

thumbs up
pzoot
My Rene is the same -- needs moisterizer or a lick, and definitely better with the fleshy part of the finger than the tip. I have it mounted vertically and pretty low-- I wonder if it performs better if horizontal and more often gets the flesh.

Any way to make a button housing to stick on it as an overlay? Foil insides? Wet sponge insides? :-)
srsonido
pzoot wrote:
My Rene is the same -- needs moisterizer or a lick, and definitely better with the fleshy part of the finger than the tip. I have it mounted vertically and pretty low-- I wonder if it performs better if horizontal and more often gets the flesh.

Any way to make a button housing to stick on it as an overlay? Foil insides? Wet sponge insides? :-)


I've been kicking around some ideas of an overlay or breakout panel of some sort. As I mentioned in and earlier post, I have fashioned an overlay for the PGM pads that is basically several layers of tape with foil on one side. It is arched slightly over the PGM buttons so that I can just touch one side or the other and trigger one button at a time. Makes page selection much more reliable.

Haven't figured out a similar kludge for the main grid buttons though.
mats_j
As someone suggested earlier I removed the acrylic washers from René, and sensitivity was dramatically improved. No more finger licking! Great tip, thanks!
L.C.O.
srsonido wrote:
L.C.O. wrote:
This is the kind of thread that would benefit from someone from Make Noise chiming in with concrete information... rather than people attempting some investigative theories and speculation! It would be good to get some clear responses. Even if it means that they (Make Noise) would need to tell us that it is how the module is designed.

To blame dry skin as a reason why the instrument does not work is just silly. I love Rene, but am still hoping that MN will come forward with some sort of fix to what to me appears to be a design flaw.

This is merely my own experience and opinion, and I am sure that there a plenty of moist-fingered users who see no problem with the design of Rene... alas, I don't think the module was developed only for those blessed with moist skin!... was it?



I couldn't agree more. I have been trying to engage Tony in an honest dialog about the Rene problems. Even offered to help him troubleshoot and find a fix / work around. But so far the answer I get from him is that while he seems sympathetic to my individual troubles, he feels there are far more people without problems than with, and at this point, he does not have the time to deal with the Rene. He has said as much.

I could be wrong, but I think the problem may be more widespread than he is aware. I think that with the benefit of the Cigler "info-mercials" he is probably selling enough units that he is not motivated to put any more effort into the Rene right now. I guess those of us, like xclark, et al, who watch those videos and are disappointed that the reality does not match, just haven't been shouting loud enough.

This is a $500 module for heavens sake!

Perhaps the bottom line is good old caveat emptor...



That is too bad that his response was so dismissive!
As to not being aware of the extent of the problem... how does he know that exactly?

Anyway: am kind of bummed that it sounds that they will not be doing anything about it. Big disappointment.
cannonball swandive
+1 bummed out. I have issues with mine as well. Great sequencer but really limits how you can use it live when it's not dependable. Spending $500 on a module the consumer should feel the module works as intended but many for many of us, it just doesn't.
srsonido
L.C.O. wrote:


That is too bad that his response was so dismissive!
As to not being aware of the extent of the problem... how does he know that exactly?


I don't know man, could be denial, could be a business decision, could be sincere.

I'm going to keep trying, but I think to your point, the more people speak up the better. I think that part of the problem is that the Rene is so unique and useful that people put up with the inconvenience of it not working well.

Perhaps we should start a poll and try and get some hard stats...
L.C.O.
cannonball swandive wrote:
+1 bummed out. I have issues with mine as well. Great sequencer but really limits how you can use it live when it's not dependable. Spending $500 on a module the consumer should feel the module works as intended but many for many of us, it just doesn't.


Apparently there are so few of us that it simply doesn't matter...
ersatzplanet
maudibe wrote:
How about a conductive thimble for the operators finger?

oops


You can by gloves now with fingertips designed to work with smart phones. I bet those would work.
kwaidan
Mute Records sells a low cost Mute Synth which is controlled "by the conductivity of the human body which completes the instrument’s circuit when the copper etching is touched." In the original video for their synth, they claimed that it responds to moisture from your touch which, in turn, affects the performance. Given that, I am curious to why Make Noise chose to use copper plating.

In addition, I have noticed that no one from Make Noise has replied to this thread or other similar ones in regards to the poor performance of this product.

Synth Werks, Synthesis Technology, and Intelligel, among others, would have responded quickly. Christ, bitch about a Doepfer product and Dieter will email you the next day, even on a Sunday.
Neekau
Well, from what I've seen so far, the quick comments from the manufacturers generally concern new modules. As René has been on the market for almost 4 years, and this topic had been brought several times, I can understand that MN does not run for answering in here !
Of course I'de love to see a fix which could avoid licking fingers whatever the power supply is, but hey, you also do that with a book to turn pages ! hihi
artisokka
Neekau wrote:
I can understand that MN does not run for answering in here !


I really can't, tbh. sad banana
L.C.O.
artisokka wrote:
Neekau wrote:
I can understand that MN does not run for answering in here !


I really can't, tbh. sad banana


Neither do i.

But am also afraid that all we would hear is that there are many more users who report no problems, than those who are having problems, that it does not warrant any action on their part... or some such excuse.
mckenic
Guys Im not for one second flaming or belittling your experiences here. I thought for awhile before posting...

My Rene didnt have this issue last time I looked and its been so long since I used it, it may well have it. I'll have to check. I do seem to remember the programming buttons being over sensitive if anything... If your having an issue it is legitimate that you are pissed but my experience with MakeNoise has been stellar when I had Rene troubles. Granted it was power so not the same thing.

I appreciate what you are all saying - perhaps I should just shut up. Its just beginning to look a little to me like Make Noise = Bad, the end! I really feel they are not but I do understand frustrations :-(

I dont know. :-(
L.C.O.
mckenic wrote:
Guys Im not for one second flaming or belittling your experiences here. I thought for awhile before posting...

My Rene didnt have this issue last time I looked and its been so long since I used it, it may well have it. I'll have to check. I do seem to remember the programming buttons being over sensitive if anything... If your having an issue it is legitimate that you are pissed but my experience with MakeNoise has been stellar when I had Rene troubles. Granted it was power so not the same thing.

I appreciate what you are all saying - perhaps I should just shut up. Its just beginning to look a little to me like Make Noise = Bad, the end! I really feel they are not but I do understand frustrations :-(

I dont know. :-(


Just to be ultra clear about this:

I LOVE Make Noise products, the ethos of the operation, their product ideas and output! I use their pieces daily, and consider myself total supporter.

The unreliable functionality of Rene is the only flaw I see/experience with all their modules that I own. It is BECAUSE I respect and appreciate what they do, that this glaring issue is so surprising to me.
mckenic
thumbs up

As I said I do feel a bit odd even posting what I did.
Anyway watching this to see where it goes - hope you guys get a resolution!

Hug
mats_j
mats_j wrote:
As someone suggested earlier I removed the acrylic washers from René, and sensitivity was dramatically improved. No more finger licking! Great tip, thanks!


OK, so I watched jamescigler's René videos again, and the weird thing is you can clearly see that he's in fact using plastic washers. Don't know what to make of this... hmmm.....
maudibe
Next mad idea... conductive paint.

They use it to paint the insides of electric guitar cavities.

A drop of this on the fingertip should be reasonably durable.

Not got any to try.......
srsonido
@mckenic,

I don't think you should feel bad about stating your opinion. It's a forum. That is what it's for.

I would understand your distaste should this discussion become solely an ad hominum attack on MN, which I don't think it has. There are probably manufacturers who deserve such treatment but I agree with you, LCO, and others that on the balance in my experience MN seem like pretty good folks.

The issue here is the Rene module. It has problems with the touch sensitivity on many units. There are problems with the main touch pad grid AND problems with the PGM / page select pads, the later of which you have corroborated. Those problems have persisted for years and have not been resolved by MN, yet they continue to sell Rene units and advertize that they are fully functional when many are not. People like xclark, see the awesome videos posted on the MN site, buy a new Rene and expect the units to work like that when often they do not.

There is a real, and repeatable problem with some of the Rene units. I have contacted Tony myself and asked him about this. His reply is that he feels there are more good units than bad, so in the future if / when they have time they will investigate a solution but right now there is nothing he can do about it. Meanwhile, MN continues to sell the same Rene units and many Rene users are left with substandard performance.

If an auto maker sold a popular car and some percentage of them would not hold air in the tires, it would be correct for car buyers to ask the manufacturer to fix the problem before selling any more cars. Now imagine if that car maker, aware of the problem and after years of fielding owners complaints, A.) continues to manufacture and sell those same cars, unchanged, and B.) to the affected owners replies "we don't think a change is to warranted, just put more air your tires". I think in that circumstance there would be a public outcry.

Auto makers are typically large corporations, there can be safety concerns, and people have less compunction about confronting them with the truth of their actions. But MN is a small company, making cool and unique audio stuff. We like them and we want them to succeed so the tendency is to be tolerant with substandard products. But the Rene is a $500 product, that has been on the market for several years. It is expensive enough, and has been around long enough that it should have been fixed before more people, however small the percentage, paid that much money for a product that does not work for them - does not work as advertized.

I feel it is right, fair, and necessary that we in the community of modular synth buyers and end users work to improve the products we buy and use. Contributing our experiences and honest opinions in a constructive way on a forum like this is an excellent way to do so. Thanks for contributing to that process mckenic.
mmmcc666
I love MN modules. I have many. Their ingenious design ideas are unique inspired and useful. Great panel graphics too IMHO. we're not worthy
But I also have an insensitive Rene. I haven't sold it because even with half of its advantages ruined by the hard-to-trigger touch plates it's still the most interesting and creative sequencer on the market (again IMHO).

Would be delighted to hear of a fix. hmmm.....
srsonido
So, "light a candle or curse the darkness".

There are a couple of issues with the Rene. We have established that. So far MN won't fix them. Seems like it's up to us. Perhaps we take one at a time...

The PGM / Page select system on my Rene is broken. Period. It just doesn't work correctly. The pads have the sensitivity issues discussed and the circuit does not seem to be de-bounced correctly. These realities make it very difficult to access the menus reliably, so quick adjustment in performance is difficult.

Debouncing the circuit would likely improve the existing functionality a lot. That would require significant input from MN however, which may not be forthcoming.

Changing / adding more solid momentary switches might be another, more accessible mod. I'm considering building a small breakout panel or other method to add a second set of real buttons for the PGM functions. Perhaps they would be off to the side, perhaps on top of the existing, or? They might be wired in addition to, or instead of, existing touch pads. Best case it would not change the existing pads, just offer a more solid alternative, but that probably depends on the existing circuit.

I have some thoughts on ways to accomplish this. Doing so elegantly would be much easier with some help from MN, which I'll continue to pursue, but I'd love to get some input from the community of users as well. I am not in the modular synth business so if I (we) so can come up with a way to do this it would be DIY.

Any ideas?
L.C.O.
FWIW

I took the nylon washers from under the screws that hold down my René... and that had absolutely no affect on the sensitivity.

Just like the sensitivity knob: I can have it turned entirely CCW and the (in)sensitivity will be exactly the same as when I turn it totally CW.

Does anybody actually see any impact that knob has on how René works??
gonkulator
L.C.O. wrote:
FWIW

I took the nylon washers from under the screws that hold down my René... and that had absolutely no affect on the sensitivity.


Same here
srsonido
gonkulator wrote:
L.C.O. wrote:
FWIW

I took the nylon washers from under the screws that hold down my René... and that had absolutely no affect on the sensitivity.


Same here


Cigler video shows Rene mounted with nylon washers.

Red herring...

I'm just sayin'
mats_j
The effect of removing the washers was huge for me. Just sayin'.

srsonido wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
L.C.O. wrote:
FWIW

I took the nylon washers from under the screws that hold down my René... and that had absolutely no affect on the sensitivity.


Same here


Cigler video shows Rene mounted with nylon washers.

Red herring...

I'm just sayin'
funkyjunky
i have the same issue with rene but mine behaves sometimes in a strange and weird way - when i touch the menu touch plates sometimes rene skips 1 or 2 menus (like x fun and y fun) and switch to the wrong menu. and sometimes i even can't select what i want to select and have to press again and again... weird.
LeCCComte
I have absolutely no problems with my René.

In fact, i have a different problem : i got sweaty hands, and sometimes, it get stuck on a step cause of the sweat, hahaha.
gonkulator
funkyjunky wrote:
i have the same issue with rene but mine behaves sometimes in a strange and weird way - when i touch the menu touch plates sometimes rene skips 1 or 2 menus (like x fun and y fun) and switch to the wrong menu. and sometimes i even can't select what i want to select and have to press again and again... weird.


yes,exactly the same thing here. And this issue seems to be independent of the touch plate sensitivity.
makenoise
Hello Folks,

Of course we care about your experiences with Make Noise modules and we are glad to help you out if you're having an issue with a module. PLEASE email us at technical@makenoisemusic.com. This allows us to address what is happening with your module specifically (and in this case since it is so few Renes with an issue we really need to address each one individually to figure out what is going on), and help you out to the best of our abilities.

The reason we don't typically post on the forum is because it feels important to respect that the space has always been for modular users to talk with each other. Of course, as long time modular and forum users we still read it and do sometimes post, but we don't want it to be a space where manufacturers are directing the conversations on the forum. We think that if folks want to talk with us about their modules, we can easily be reached by email at technical@makenoisemusic.com.

We are making this post to be sure that you know how to get in touch with us so we can help you out. Thanks so much for all of the support and inspiration!

T
gonkulator
Thanks, email sent.
srsonido
mats_j wrote:
The effect of removing the washers was huge for me. Just sayin'.


Bottom line - I'm glad you found improvement, if things got better when you removed the washers then something was changed in the process and if that helped you, great, no harm in trying. Try everything. Why not.

But I think for many those machinations are just distracting from the real issue which is that there are some core mechanisms that do not function properly on many Rene unit's. Distraction from the relevant issue is what is meant by the phrase red herring. I think that for the many, myself included, the grounding and power supply and mounting washer issues, etc. are just that.
srsonido
gonkulator wrote:
Thanks, email sent.


@gonkulator

I have the very same issue with the "menu plates" as you do, as do several other Rene owners I know personally and several who have expressed similar opinions on this forum. It is what I have referred to as a "de-bouncing" problem with the PGM selectors on the Rene. I would like to hear how things go with you in that regard. If MN can solve that problem for you, perhaps we are making progress.

@makenoise

T, Sorry man, but the reality of my experience is that I have been communicating with your technical support team and with you directly, on the exact issue referenced above, ever since I first bought my Rene. I have asked you for help with the PGM / Page select mechanism in multiple emails and you have neither acknowledged nor addressed this problem.

The PGM / Page select mechanism has problems for many people. I would love to work with you to resolve this issue.
srsonido
mats_j wrote:
The effect of removing the washers was huge for me. Just sayin'.


Bottom line - I'm glad you found improvement, if things got better when you removed the washers then something was changed in the process and if that helped you, great, no harm in trying. Try everything. Why not.

But I think for many those machinations are just distracting from the real issue which is that there are some core mechanisms that do not function properly on many Rene unit's. Distraction from the relevant issue is what is meant by the phrase red herring. I think that for the many, myself included, the grounding and power supply and mounting washer issues, etc. are just that.
makenoise
Hey there, not sure who you are as you are not signing your posts and your forum name is not a name I recognize from tech support emails. I am pretty sure I know who you are, but I will respect your anonymity here…

In a few tech support cases, we've tried everything we are able to do, and still nothing seems to completely satisfy the customer. That does not mean the next tech support case will not be solvable, so please do not apply your own experience to everybody's case. I believe we have the potential to help most folks, and we will certainly do everything we are able to do to help them.

srsonido wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
Thanks, email sent.


@gonkulator

I have the very same issue with the "menu plates" as you do, as do several other Rene owners I know personally and several who have expressed similar opinions on this forum. It is what I have referred to as a "de-bouncing" problem with the PGM selectors on the Rene. I would like to hear how things go with you in that regard. If MN can solve that problem for you, perhaps we are making progress.

@makenoise

T, Sorry man, but the reality of my experience is that I have been communicating with your technical support team and with you directly, on the exact issue referenced above, ever since I first bought my Rene. I have asked you for help with the PGM / Page select mechanism in multiple emails and you have neither acknowledged nor addressed this problem.

The PGM / Page select mechanism has problems for many people. I would love to work with you to resolve this issue.
srsonido
makenoise wrote:
Hey there, not sure who you are as you are not signing your posts and your forum name is not a name I recognize from tech support emails. I am pretty sure I know who you are, but I will respect your anonymity here…

In a few tech support cases, we've tried everything we are able to do, and still nothing seems to completely satisfy the customer. That does not mean the next tech support case will not be solvable, so please do not apply your own experience to everybody's case. I believe we have the potential to help most folks, and we will certainly do everything we are able to do to help them.

srsonido wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
Thanks, email sent.


@gonkulator

I have the very same issue with the "menu plates" as you do, as do several other Rene owners I know personally and several who have expressed similar opinions on this forum. It is what I have referred to as a "de-bouncing" problem with the PGM selectors on the Rene. I would like to hear how things go with you in that regard. If MN can solve that problem for you, perhaps we are making progress.

@makenoise

T, Sorry man, but the reality of my experience is that I have been communicating with your technical support team and with you directly, on the exact issue referenced above, ever since I first bought my Rene. I have asked you for help with the PGM / Page select mechanism in multiple emails and you have neither acknowledged nor addressed this problem.

The PGM / Page select mechanism has problems for many people. I would love to work with you to resolve this issue.



Hi there, thanks for reaching out. I'm not sure who you are either, other than you are posting under your forum name MakeNoise, so I guess we are even in that regard.

Not really sure what your point is, either, to be honest, but it sounds like you are implying that I am that customer with whom you have tried everything and nothing seems to satisfy me. And now, as a result of my dissatisfaction, I am somehow discouraging other users from seeking your help...?

If that is your point then I don't think you have read my post carefully. In my comments to gonkulator, which you quoted, I've supported him in his observation of the problem and encouraged him to keep me in the loop with any progress on resolving the matter. If you look elsewhere in my posts on this thread, you will find me encouraging others in a similar manner.

In my message to MN I specifically address it to @makenoise / "T", who was the original MN poster, and qualify my remarks with: "the reality of my experience is that I...". I am relating my own experience directly to MN, not elsewhere, and making a direct plea to MN for help. I posted this message to MN, in this manner because I have been doing as you have asked, trying to work with MN through email to resolve the problem I have with the PGM pads on my Rene, and getting no traction on the issue. Given my experience, and that it is a reply to your post, I think it is a fair comment and proper use of forum space.

My circumstance is that I have problems with the touch sensitivity on the main grid of the Rene, and with the re-triggering of the PGM / Page selection as described by gonkulator and others. In response to the former, MN has instructed me to get a different power supply. In response to the later, MN has offered no advice. For the record, I have tried 4 power supplies, including purchasing a new MN PS, and none of them has helped either problem.

So in reality, MN have offered one possible cause, to one of my problems - they have said it is a faulty power supply. Beyond that my only other recourse is to return the unit. That does not feel like the comprehensive troubleshooting you implied in this post. And, if a faulty power supply is the only external problem that you believe could be causing issues with my Rene, and I have removed that possible suspect, doesn't that imply that there is something wrong with the Rene itself, ergo, there is still something more that MN can do?

Again, I'm not entirely sure, but It seems like you are trying to cast me as an unreasonable customer who simply won't be satisfied no matter what MN tries to do to help. That is not the reality at all in my case and is a really unfair thing for you to imply. Like many who have posted here, I like the Rene and really, really, want it to work. It doesn't, and I would like to improve that circumstance. I would love to work with MN to resolve this issue.
makenoise
I am Anthony Rolando, representing the company I founded called Make Noise which is also the forum name that I've used for over six yrs. Most folks know me around here, but still I apologize for not explaining my full identity to you in my previous posts.

We definitely want to help you, but searching for your forum name does not bring up any results in our technical support email system. If you would like to contact us at technical@makenoisemusic.com we will be glad to dig through our correspondence and see if there is anything else we could do to try to help you.

Anthony T. Rolando
Founder Make Noise Co.


srsonido wrote:
makenoise wrote:
Hey there, not sure who you are as you are not signing your posts and your forum name is not a name I recognize from tech support emails. I am pretty sure I know who you are, but I will respect your anonymity here…

In a few tech support cases, we've tried everything we are able to do, and still nothing seems to completely satisfy the customer. That does not mean the next tech support case will not be solvable, so please do not apply your own experience to everybody's case. I believe we have the potential to help most folks, and we will certainly do everything we are able to do to help them.

srsonido wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
Thanks, email sent.


@gonkulator

I have the very same issue with the "menu plates" as you do, as do several other Rene owners I know personally and several who have expressed similar opinions on this forum. It is what I have referred to as a "de-bouncing" problem with the PGM selectors on the Rene. I would like to hear how things go with you in that regard. If MN can solve that problem for you, perhaps we are making progress.

@makenoise

T, Sorry man, but the reality of my experience is that I have been communicating with your technical support team and with you directly, on the exact issue referenced above, ever since I first bought my Rene. I have asked you for help with the PGM / Page select mechanism in multiple emails and you have neither acknowledged nor addressed this problem.

The PGM / Page select mechanism has problems for many people. I would love to work with you to resolve this issue.



Hi there, thanks for reaching out. I'm not sure who you are either, other than you are posting under your forum name MakeNoise, so I guess we are even in that regard.

Not really sure what your point is, either, to be honest, but it sounds like you are implying that I am that customer with whom you have tried everything and nothing seems to satisfy me. And now, as a result of my dissatisfaction, I am somehow discouraging other users from seeking your help...?

If that is your point then I don't think you have read my post carefully. In my comments to gonkulator, which you quoted, I've supported him in his observation of the problem and encouraged him to keep me in the loop with any progress on resolving the matter. If you look elsewhere in my posts on this thread, you will find me encouraging others in a similar manner.

In my message to MN I specifically address it to @makenoise / "T", who was the original MN poster, and qualify my remarks with: "the reality of my experience is that I...". I am relating my own experience directly to MN, not elsewhere, and making a direct plea to MN for help. I posted this message to MN, in this manner because I have been doing as you have asked, trying to work with MN through email to resolve the problem I have with the PGM pads on my Rene, and getting no traction on the issue. Given my experience, and that it is a reply to your post, I think it is a fair comment and proper use of forum space.

My circumstance is that I have problems with the touch sensitivity on the main grid of the Rene, and with the re-triggering of the PGM / Page selection as described by gonkulator and others. In response to the former, MN has instructed me to get a different power supply. In response to the later, MN has offered no advice. For the record, I have tried 4 power supplies, including purchasing a new MN PS, and none of them has helped either problem.

So in reality, MN have offered one possible cause, to one of my problems - they have said it is a faulty power supply. Beyond that my only other recourse is to return the unit. That does not feel like the comprehensive troubleshooting you implied in this post. And, if a faulty power supply is the only external problem that you believe could be causing issues with my Rene, and I have removed that possible suspect, doesn't that imply that there is something wrong with the Rene itself, ergo, there is still something more that MN can do?

Again, I'm not entirely sure, but It seems like you are trying to cast me as an unreasonable customer who simply won't be satisfied no matter what MN tries to do to help. That is not the reality at all in my case and is a really unfair thing for you to imply. Like many who have posted here, I like the Rene and really, really, want it to work. It doesn't, and I would like to improve that circumstance. I would love to work with MN to resolve this issue.
makenoise
Just to update here…

So far we've had 2 people contact us as a result of this thread and the issues discussed within. We are in the process of helping them out.

Thank you,

Anthony Rolando
Founder Make Noise
Bonobo
Good to see you in the thread Anthony, I read through with interest and still plan to buy a Rene in the next few weeks (if Rubadub ever get them back in stock!).
ResistSound
Just wanted to state that earlier this year I had a problem with my DPO where the two Osc were not following properly. I sent them an email and within an hour had a response. We tried a couple of things over two days and found that there was a problem with the DPO. I sent it over to them and they fixed and sent it right back to me!

Honestly it sucked that my DPO wasn't working correctly (favorite Osc), but the tech support experience made me a long time MN customer! shit breaks sometimes, its nice to know someone will fix it.

I hope you guys get your Rene worked out. I'm sure the MN team will make it happen.
skyshaver
Thanks to Tony from Makenoise for posting here. I know it's selfish but I hope this community never gets so big that this sort of thing stops happening. Makes me feel much better about buying eurorack instruments.
nolongerhuman
skyshaver wrote:
Thanks to Tony from Makenoise for posting here. I know it's selfish but I hope this community never gets so big that this sort of thing stops happening. Makes me feel much better about buying eurorack instruments.


As someone who is patiently saving to buy a Rene (the last piece missing from my one at a time Shared System) I have been following this thread. I picked initially the Metropolis over Rene, and found that I was less interested in making the standard style sequenced patterns and more interested in a kind of exploratory sequencer, though I loved the Metropolis, I decided Rene would suit me personally better.

I completely agree with the above quote. I could go on and on about the dealings I have had with Akai, Roland, and a few others, some just ok, some terrible, but never have I seen the level of personal commitment, pride, and service I have seen in Euro. Make Noise, Intellijel, 4MS, Mutable, and many, many more... have provided a level of service that is above and beyond, and it makes me very comfortable in my decision to get lost down this rabbit hole. Lets hope it doesn't ever change.
gonkulator
Update: I contacted them, and after they had me check a few things, decided to have me send it to them. During that process, I decided to try the stylus I sometimes use with tablets. The Rene responded just fine. Curious, perhaps I should stop wearing rubber gloves when I wiggle. hihi

Funny though, I thought that if this is as good as the sensitivity can get, I could probably live with the stylus. Just having it respond as expected, even with a stylus, was so much more productive.
L.C.O.
gonkulator wrote:
Update: I contacted them, and after they had me check a few things, decided to have me send it to them. During that process, I decided to try the stylus I sometimes use with tablets. The Rene responded just fine. Curious, perhaps I should stop wearing rubber gloves when I wiggle. hihi

Funny though, I thought that if this is as good as the sensitivity can get, I could probably live with the stylus. Just having it respond as expected, even with a stylus, was so much more productive.



Can you mention what were the things you were asked to check?
gonkulator
Actually, they just had me do one function thing, adjust the sensitivity, which I hadn't really fooled that much with. There wasn't really any discernible difference regardless of the position. Otherwise, typical things, like serial number, etc.
gonkulator
UPDATE: Received mine back from Make Noise. Much much better. I would say I have a 95+ percent success with my typically dry fingers, where before it was 30-50 percent at best. I am excited to use this now as God intended.
human33l
Just throwing this out there as I've not seen it mentioned. Part of my problem with touch plates I believe stems from having thick calluses from years of playing stringed instruments (I have more success when I ground with a screw and use the joint below my fingertip) I wonder if others are experiencing this but not considering it as a possibility.
srsonido
gonkulator wrote:
UPDATE: Received mine back from Make Noise. Much much better. I would say I have a 95+ percent success with my typically dry fingers, where before it was 30-50 percent at best. I am excited to use this now as God intended.

Hi Gonkulator,

Did they say what was wrong with it - what did they change / fix?
gonkulator
srsonido wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
UPDATE: Received mine back from Make Noise. Much much better. I would say I have a 95+ percent success with my typically dry fingers, where before it was 30-50 percent at best. I am excited to use this now as God intended.

Hi Gonkulator,

Did they say what was wrong with it - what did they change / fix?


I asked, without trying to get too nosey. This was the reply:

"Due to a variation in construction, a small number of recent René units turned out less sensitive than is typical. This variation was only on a small number of units: currently shipping units and older units do not have it. Unfortunately, because touchplate sensitivity is subjective, some of these (one of which was yours) made it into the field without notice. Luckily, we have determined a fix for the issue, which has already been implemented on current René. We have applied this fix to yours and I'm confident you'll find it much more playable than it was before. We apologize for the inconvenience. "

Works for me. And the turnaround time from me shipping it off Fedex ground, to receiving it was 10 days. Not bad considering it went coast to coast to coast.
Daisuk
gonkulator wrote:
UPDATE: Received mine back from Make Noise. Much much better. I would say I have a 95+ percent success with my typically dry fingers, where before it was 30-50 percent at best. I am excited to use this now as God intended.


With all of your fingers? I've found that I have to use my thumb to have Rene respond (and I usually have to use the middle of the thumb), and even then it's quite unresponsive at times. I should probably send a mail to them about it. smile
Tripadvizer
I havent tried any other Renés than mine so its hard to say how good the touchplates work on mine. For shure not perfect. I have it installed in a case with a uZeus so i am wondering if it would work better with a proper PSU with proper grounding.

But the trick to touch the screws with the not operating hand does indeed improve the handling quite a bit.
gonkulator
Daisuk wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
UPDATE: Received mine back from Make Noise. Much much better. I would say I have a 95+ percent success with my typically dry fingers, where before it was 30-50 percent at best. I am excited to use this now as God intended.


With all of your fingers? I've found that I have to use my thumb to have Rene respond (and I usually have to use the middle of the thumb), and even then it's quite unresponsive at times. I should probably send a mail to them about it. smile


Yeah, even my small, dry index finger worked fine

To be honest, I was surprised that it worked so well. I just figured it was me.
Daisuk
gonkulator wrote:
Daisuk wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
UPDATE: Received mine back from Make Noise. Much much better. I would say I have a 95+ percent success with my typically dry fingers, where before it was 30-50 percent at best. I am excited to use this now as God intended.


With all of your fingers? I've found that I have to use my thumb to have Rene respond (and I usually have to use the middle of the thumb), and even then it's quite unresponsive at times. I should probably send a mail to them about it. smile


Yeah, even my small, dry index finger worked fine

To be honest, I was surprised that it worked so well. I just figured it was me.


Ok, cool, thanks. I sent a mail to MN, and it seems as though my Rene was one of the few that has this touch plate issue, so will have to send it in to a technician in Sweden, apparently. Will be great to get it working properly, as I've cramped my hands/fingers quite a lot while using it over the past couple of months, haha.

Really quick and helpful response from MN, so much appreciated. smile
xclark
After Tony popped into this thread, I emailed Make Noise and they had me send my Rene in to them. they said it would cost $30 (+$15 shipping) for them to fix the sensitivity issue. very slight bummer to have to pay for it, considering it was a "small number that encountered a discrepancy in the manufacturing process", but more than anything, I'm happy to report that my Rene now functions just like the one in the James Ciglar videos. before the fix, I had to lick my finger for every... single... touch. was a real drag, but not any more.

Thanks Make Noise! nanners
MikkoKolehmainen
I have noticed that with my perfectly working René the biggest difference with sensitivity of plates depends on grounding. It's possible that in same house if I take electricity from different socket sensitivity varies.
And actually sometimes I can't use some sockets because René is getting crazy and not functioning like it should be even though rest of the modular is fine.

This is not really funny when you go to gig and you are in hurry in soundcheck and notice that it's not possible to play same patch you've been planning because René doesn't like grounding.
cbeefheartuk
I got a Shared System a few months ago and had a bit of a problem with the Rene sensitivity.. MN have always been really helpful when emailing them and they sorted out my Rene through a guy who services for them in Europe really quickly. I still don't think the menu select plates are that great - they are a little unpredictable sometimes but the main plates work perfect and overall it is working really well.
wavefold
Before Tony telling us the reason of the problem I was pretty hesitant to buy a René but now I'm pretty sure I will get one Guinness ftw!
pzoot
In response to this thread, I reached out to MN with my serial # and they had me send in my Rene for calibration. Not to put this kind of pressure on them in the future, but in my case, from the date I sent it to the date I received it back was under a week. Unfortunately, for me, I'm traveling now and won't get to unbox it until the weekend!! However, I'm completely confident (given the results discussed in this thread and their responsiveness via emails and timing) that I will be delighted with the results.

Not sure why I never thought to reach out to them before Tony posted here very frustrating

I'm one (even more) happy customer, that's for sure
midiguru
mr.freeman wrote:
Before Tony telling us the reason of the problem I was pretty hesitant to buy a René but now I'm pretty sure I will get one Guinness ftw!

I just sent mine back for tweaking. I'm keeping my (non-sweaty) fingers crossed that it will be better.

I love the concepts in the module -- separate X/Y clocking, being able to skip steps interactively in performance, and so forth. I was discouraged about even learning to use it well, because it was so unresponsive that my unconscious learning process (i.e., intuition) was just balking like crazy. Didn't want to go there.

What's weird is that the touchplates on my Pressure Points work just fine.

I suggested to MN that they really ought to consider doing a production run with pushbuttons in place of the touchplates. (On Rene, not PP.) They didn't seem interested in doing that. Nice rubber-feeling momentary buttons would be a HUGE improvement.
Neekau
FWIW, today at home I tried powering the system with a long extension cable from my kitchen (where in France proper grounding is mandatory as I said earlier), and it is day&night for René sensivity. I wish I could left this 10m cable across the apartment...
Daisuk
I got my Rene back from repair today. Seemed to do a bit of difference at first, but after using it for a while now, it's back to the same old.

BUT! I tried plugging the modular into a grounded outlet in the bathroom, and it's a world of difference. The Rene finally reacts like I've seen it do in videos. I somehow thought I had the modular connected to a grounded outlet, but apparently not. So, now I just need to figure out a way of getting the outlet in the studio grounded. :p
Piranhaconda
I got one of these recently and it's been all over the place. I can get the main grid sensitivity dialed in right where I want it, thank god, but the upper two are worse. The left panel tends to skip through two pages at a time more often than not and the right one is just crazy, I touch it and it just flickers on and off like mad for the duration. It usually takes a few tries before I can get a good shot at saving something for example.

I have some fiddling to do, I'm gonna try different sockets and such as well, but that aside I'm a big fan of the module itself.
srsonido
Piranhaconda wrote:
I got one of these recently and it's been all over the place. I can get the main grid sensitivity dialed in right where I want it, thank god, but the upper two are worse. The left panel tends to skip through two pages at a time more often than not and the right one is just crazy, I touch it and it just flickers on and off like mad for the duration. It usually takes a few tries before I can get a good shot at saving something for example.

I have some fiddling to do, I'm gonna try different sockets and such as well, but that aside I'm a big fan of the module itself.


Welcome to the mysterious world of Rene'. Some work, some do not. YMMV.

Let me say this to you as you are starting your Rene' discovery journey: yes, it is a fantastic concept and can do many unique things. It is also quite problematic for MANY people.

If your main touch pad grid is working for you to your liking, then you are ahead of the game. Many folks have to moisten or lick fingers to get usable response so you are one of the lucky ones.

However, it sounds like you have not been spared the horrible functionality of the glitchy PGM pads - the upper pads which you refer to. I do not know what percentage of these work properly but I have seen 5 individual Rene units now and all of them had the flaky PGM pad response. It is a real, known problem and extremely annoying. Makes the unit nearly unusable in performance, where timing maters.

All that said, there seem to be things that can affect the system performance. Rene seems to be sensitive to it's environment. There are rumors of grounding sensitivity and a lot of finger pointing regarding different power supply manufacturers. I say rumors because I have tried my Rene on 4 different power systems and finally bought a dedicated MakeNoise power supply for the module itself. None of those has changed the overall sensitivity of my Rene, and PGM pads still exhibit the erratic behavior you describe, but it certainly can't hurt to make sure your power system is solid - that can be a source of many problems, including, possibly, the Rene'.

If you are in the States and the shipping is not exorbitant you may consider contacting MakeNoise and asking them to help. It seems that they can improve response in some units. I have been down that path and my experience was that they made mods to my first Rene unit and couldn't really improve it much. Ultimately they sent me a new one which they said worked correctly for them, but it is still not right.

Not to discourage you though, do contact them because they may be able to help and certainly seem willing - up to a point. I would just advise that you read through this thread a bit and draw your own conclusions about the cost / benefit of sending the unit for repair.

The status of my Rene's performance is that the main grid pads are sometimes useable, other times not. They seem to be sensitive to the moisture in my fingers at any one time, but I have yet to get solid reliable performance from them. The PGM pads, however, are a functionality disaster so I have fashioned a "membrane" of tape and foil to lay over them in such a way that the foil does the triggering when I press the tape. This is ugly as sin, but make the unit useable. PM me if you want a picture.

While MakeNoise are usually quick to respond to issues, be aware that they seem to have a list of pre-determined fixes they are willing to try. If those don't work, then MN are less responsive. Tony has stated categorically that he knows of the problems with Rene but will not re-design the unit to fix them at this time. His opinion is that not enough people have problems with the unit to justify fixing it so again, I would encourage you to contact MN and follow up with getting your unit repaired. They may be able to help you now, and if so, you are in luck. If not, that is unfortunate but at least we keep adding to the evidence and may help in getting the root cause addressed sooner.

Good luck with your new Rene' When it works it's fantastic.
Daisuk
Piranhaconda wrote:
I got one of these recently and it's been all over the place. I can get the main grid sensitivity dialed in right where I want it, thank god, but the upper two are worse. The left panel tends to skip through two pages at a time more often than not and the right one is just crazy, I touch it and it just flickers on and off like mad for the duration. It usually takes a few tries before I can get a good shot at saving something for example.

I have some fiddling to do, I'm gonna try different sockets and such as well, but that aside I'm a big fan of the module itself.


That sounds exactly like mine before I plugged it into a grounded socket. Try that out, worked wonders here, it works really well now. thumbs up
srsonido
Daisuk wrote:
Piranhaconda wrote:
I got one of these recently and it's been all over the place. I can get the main grid sensitivity dialed in right where I want it, thank god, but the upper two are worse. The left panel tends to skip through two pages at a time more often than not and the right one is just crazy, I touch it and it just flickers on and off like mad for the duration. It usually takes a few tries before I can get a good shot at saving something for example.

I have some fiddling to do, I'm gonna try different sockets and such as well, but that aside I'm a big fan of the module itself.


That sounds exactly like mine before I plugged it into a grounded socket. Try that out, worked wonders here, it works really well now. :tu:


Hi Daisuk, congratulations on getting your Rene working. Pretty cool module when it does.

May I ask, when you say "grounded socket" what are you referring to specifically? Are you talking about the 3rd connection that some AC sockets have and that is tied to earth ground?

Do you find that the PGM pads (menu selection) at the top are stable now?

Thanks!
Daisuk
srsonido wrote:
Daisuk wrote:
Piranhaconda wrote:
I got one of these recently and it's been all over the place. I can get the main grid sensitivity dialed in right where I want it, thank god, but the upper two are worse. The left panel tends to skip through two pages at a time more often than not and the right one is just crazy, I touch it and it just flickers on and off like mad for the duration. It usually takes a few tries before I can get a good shot at saving something for example.

I have some fiddling to do, I'm gonna try different sockets and such as well, but that aside I'm a big fan of the module itself.


That sounds exactly like mine before I plugged it into a grounded socket. Try that out, worked wonders here, it works really well now. thumbs up


Hi Daisuk, congratulations on getting your Rene working. Pretty cool module when it does.

May I ask, when you say "grounded socket" what are you referring to specifically? Are you talking about the 3rd connection that some AC sockets have and that is tied to earth ground?

Do you find that the PGM pads (menu selection) at the top are stable now?

Thanks!


Yep, those are the ones. All the pads are stable now, including the menu pads (which were the most erratic ones before I changed socket). I can even use whichever finger I like on it now (used to only work with my thumb before). So definitely try that out! smile

srsonido
Quote:

Yep, those are the ones. All the pads are stable now, including the menu pads (which were the most erratic ones before I changed socket). I can even use whichever finger I like on it now (used to only work with my thumb before). So definitely try that out! :)


Well, that's great. I'm glad you found a solution in your environment.

I have a properly grounded studio myself, and I have tried my Rene at other properly grounded locations and still have the erratic PGM pad behavior.

While I'm glad that the earth grounding helps your immediate circumstance, it does beg the question of what confidence can be had when playing out. My experience playing in clubs over the years has been that they vary wildly in terms of clean power. It's well and good to have the thing working at home, but another thing entirely to get to a gig and suddenly have problems. I think that is a significant issue.
ladybird
I have a finicky Rene as well......I have received and RMA number so I will be sending it back at some point to get it looked at. I have noticed that the PGM pads are very erratic and that the "play" pads work sometimes at the the bottom of the 4 X 4 array but nearly never at the top of the array. The top four pads right below the PGM pads being the worst.

You could clone me from the amount of saliva on my Rene.
mmmcc666
I sent mine off to the European make noise repair man recently. It wouldn't respond without having to wet my fingers. It was returned a week or two later functioning perfectly! It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners Rockin' Banana! It's motherfucking bacon yo
leterell
flying through this thread i got the feeling make noise were unresponsive on this matter. while this may have been true at some point, today they were super-responsive and offered to calibrate my unit for sensitivity. w00t
CliffordMilk
I recently bought a used Rene, which I'm using to trigger notes and arps manually via the touchplate.

I have an issue whereby the module is quite unresponsive when synced to a slower clock but seems OK at faster speeds (providing my fingers are not completely dry).

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm mainly using a Pamela's Workout for my clock but have tried alternatives and experienced the same issue.

Any insights would be very welcome.
Dogma
CliffordMilk wrote:
I recently bought a used Rene, which I'm using to trigger notes and arps manually via the touchplate.

I have an issue whereby the module is quite unresponsive when synced to a slower clock but seems OK at faster speeds (providing my fingers are not completely dry).

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm mainly using a Pamela's Workout for my clock but have tried alternatives and experienced the same issue.

Any insights would be very welcome.


Theres a thread somewhere about this? I think its a PAMs issue but Im sorry I cant be clear on that
I just got a QCD and hope I dont any problems
smithknows
I wanted to revive this thread to see what happened with everybody's touch plate woes.
I recently bought a used Rene. And of course it has very unresponsive plates.
I read through this entire thread.
Sensitivity knob does nothing.
Licking the fingers sort of works.
Foil on the finger works very well.

I emailed Make Noise. They responded within hours.
They say that the problem is my rack or power supply. (Cell 90)
Saying its that the power isn't grounded.

Luckily, I already have a new case on the way with a Make Noise power in it. So, we'll see if that makes it better or not.

I just wanted to add my experience to this thread as an archive for others. And if any of you have settled on causes or fixes maybe we could collect them here.
scottmoon
I had one once and it was powered by the Makenoise board and I still had problems with it. Some people claim that dry fingers are the problem. I got sick of licking my fingers or using tons of hand cream. I have pressure points and never have any issue with those. Good luck.
Dogma
the reason I got rid of mine....damn shame too because otherwise its a great instrument...but if you cant play it your only getting half the power out of it......screw moisturizer and metal fingers very frustrating very frustrating
smithknows
So, Scottmoon and Dogma
Did either of you contact Make Noise before jumping ship?
It's such a cool sequencer. I do t want to believe that it's not going to work like In the sweet promo videos.
bc3
had to send mine back to be adjusted and worked a little better. i have dry skin i guess which causes this behavior more than others, just the nature of the beast i guess. either live with it or try something else. i have just dealt with it because it still is a very unique sequencer and capable of some really cool stuff.
L.C.O.
Chiming in after some months:

I sold Rene, and never looked back.

It simply did not work.

And I refuse to accept blame for my fingers not being moist enough for it.

Still love MakeNoise though! Telharmonic is great! ;-) (Erbeverb too!)
scottmoon
smithknows wrote:
So, Scottmoon and Dogma
Did either of you contact Make Noise before jumping ship?
It's such a cool sequencer. I do t want to believe that it's not going to work like In the sweet promo videos.


I purchased it used so I had no warranty to fall back on and chalked it up to my dry fingers. I hope you have better luck.
modularrydavid
Got rid of mine, was brand-new and I had the same problems. MN stuff is gorgeous but I'd rather René slightly less exciting to look at and more predictable re: user input. Obviously loads of people have no issues, just my 2 touch plate cents.
L.C.O.
modularrydavid wrote:
... Obviously loads of people have no issues, just my 2 touch plate cents.


OR they don't care about how many times they need to touch the plate before getting the response...
evileye0702
I haven't got rid of mine but the usefulness has been limited because my plates are so unresponsive to my fingers.

I would have sold it by now but I like the unique features it offers. At some point I may send it to Asheville to see if it can't be fixed.
mgscheue
Mine is nicely responsive for me, though the person I bought it from said it wasn't for him. It does seem that environment and finger properties makes a difference.
stevenb
I had sensitivity issues with a new Rene, so I sent it back to MakeNoise. The replied that it seemed OK to them, and that it might be power supply related. I've had Rene in 3 different cases, each with different power supplies, so I have some doubt about that. They suggested I clean the pads with alcohol, which helped a bit. They repeatedly mentioned that the amount of finger/pad contact was often a factor in the sensitivity issue. I put Rene in a skiff with a sloping panel, which helped me to achieve improved finger pad contact. This made a huge difference, but it did not make the issue go away. I like the darn thing, so I am willing to deal with the issue, but I do wish it would work better. Maybe the low humidity up here in the Sierra foothills has something to do with it.
smithknows
UPDATE: Fixed!
Thought I would let everybody know what ended up happening with my Rene.
After a couple emails back and forth with Make Noise to confirm that the problem wasn't with power or grounding they had me send it in.
I paid shipping and a nominal repair fee. They had it in and out of the shop in a couple days. I racked it up and it plays like a dream.
Totally different instrument!
I can easily play it and program it just like in the videos. It's great. I can grab and fulls of touch plates to create arpeggios. And quickly jump around menus.

I went from registering 10% of touches to 100%.

My advice; If you are having these problems contact Make Noise.
Dogma
smithknows wrote:
UPDATE: Fixed!
Thought I would let everybody know what ended up happening with my Rene.
After a couple emails back and forth with Make Noise to confirm that the problem wasn't with power or grounding they had me send it in.
I paid shipping and a nominal repair fee. They had it in and out of the shop in a couple days. I racked it up and it plays like a dream.
Totally different instrument!
I can easily play it and program it just like in the videos. It's great. I can grab and fulls of touch plates to create arpeggios. And quickly jump around menus.

I went from registering 10% of touches to 100%.

My advice; If you are having these problems contact Make Noise.


Really? The sole reason I got rid of the Rene is because of this....so 100%?
smithknows
@dogma
Yeah man. For real.
Whatever they did to it has made it work like you dream of it working.
Buy a used one and send it in for a tune up.
Dogma
smithknows wrote:
@dogma
Yeah man. For real.
Whatever they did to it has made it work like you dream of it working.
Buy a used one and send it in for a tune up.


Will do and Ill fuck this analog Keys out before I throw it out! Stupid thing cant even keep a pitch without slewing the bejesus out of it....
I always loved what I pulled out of the rene sequencing wise - it was the touch aspect that worked about 30% of the time
gonkulator
I sent mine in over a year ago. What they did improved it, but not near what it should be. I still have it, but haven't used it in months.
rompersgohard
Wow! I haven't read this thread since it was only about a page long and figured I was just a doomed to dry handedness...I've always have had the same unresponsive touch plates/skips though program pages/have to lick my fingers to the point of ridiculousness situation so many others have described... Also love Rene so much for it's other functions that I've always just put up with it. Excited to hear that there may be a remedy and that many of you have been able to get a tune up and improved repose. I am definitely going to email MN tech support and see what they think. Dry fingers crossed!
blizzt
So I would like to hear from people who have bought recently a brand new rene. Are you having problems with your unit? I wanted to buy a rene this week but this thread has left me wondering hmmm.....
jvt
I bought a white one back around mid-March of this year. So far it works about 95% of the time. A clinical sufferer of dryhanditis, I had two black Rene's prior to that (one purchased around the initial release and another about a year later) that I could never get to respond correctly. This is the first one that I feel responds reasonably well. Not perfect, but well enough not to trigger the frustration I experienced before.
mecanikill
My Rene has always worked perfectly for me but my friend came over and his fingers were not working on it. I used my fingers and it was behaving fine then as soon as he touched it again it was not triggering correctly. It really must have something to do with the users skin I am convinced after seeing that happen.
BeeKid
People have mentioned the effect of poor grounding.

In my house, currently, we have a pretty antique electricity circuit. Early next year we're going to do a complete overhaul, but for now I'm stuck with no ground prongs in any my sockets.

Will this mess up my soon to be René, or even entire Eurorack system?
blizzt
jvt wrote:
I bought a white one back around mid-March of this year. So far it works about 95% of the time. A clinical sufferer of dryhanditis, I had two black Rene's prior to that (one purchased around the initial release and another about a year later) that I could never get to respond correctly. This is the first one that I feel responds reasonably well. Not perfect, but well enough not to trigger the frustration I experienced before.


Great to hear that. I've been searching the white rene in many european shops but it seems everyone stocks the black version.
Flohr
Disclaimer: This is not meant to belittle people's problems with René's touchplates, or imply that because mine had a quick fix all others will too.

I've had my René now for about 5 or 6 months. I bought it used. It was serviced by Make Noise due to a damaged jack in shipping and once I got it back it functioned absolutely perfectly so I never understood any of the complaints about the touchplates. Overtime and after having moved to a new apartment I started to experience some of the common issues people described. Recently I happened to think that perhaps I should clean the touchplates a bit, so I wiped it down with one of those cloths you use for vinyl or cleaning electronics. Fixed all of my issues.

Again not everyone's situation, but I was starting to think it was something electrical or something actually faulty when it was actually probably just a build up from my grubby little paws. Just figured I'd share that in case it helps anyone.
High Wolf
I used mine for a few months at home with no problem at all, now I used it in another place last week, with kinda sketchy electricity (you know one of those places where you get slight electrical shock sometimes), and it was much more difficult to have the plates respond well.
blizzt
I finally bought a brand new rene. Works flawlessly. Thought I had to share my experience
mmagin
BeeKid wrote:
People have mentioned the effect of poor grounding.

In my house, currently, we have a pretty antique electricity circuit. Early next year we're going to do a complete overhaul, but for now I'm stuck with no ground prongs in any my sockets.

Will this mess up my soon to be René, or even entire Eurorack system?


For me, it does. I acquired a used René recently, and it functions flawlessly on a newer grounded circuit in my kitchen, but where I usually do my wiggling, there is no ground (There is a GFCI for safety) and the touch pads are almost unusable. (Both situations were in a Doepfer case with their PSU2 linear supply.)

Not sure if I'll resell it or keep it until I eventually run a grounded circuit to there. It would be nice if Make Noise made it more explicit in their literature that it will work badly with a floating ground -- they do mention that noisy power supplies are an issue, which is why I got a Doepfer case actually. It may be compounded that the ground is grounded to all the other equipment on the same outlet and leakage across the Y (line to ground) capacitors of various equipment probably puts a modest 60hz AC voltage on the case ground, relative to my body.
Daisuk
Well, I got one of these, and all my touch plate woes are gone.

http://ifingi.com/

Works wonders. smile
Sleipnir
I guess I posted in another thread, but having the same issues. Was told it was grounding, tried it in a doepfer case, same issue.
I did a test pulling the guts out of a cheap keyboard and taping the sensors on the touchpads, and it worked perfectly.
I'm now in the process of building a keypad out of Cherry keyswitches. IMO this is the way it should have been, though I understand the cost difference was possibly prohibitive.
Will post once I get it working. screaming goo yo
jkile9
Has anyone had any luck figuring this out yet? I've been tinkering with mine the passed couple of days and it's been working horribly... I love the functionality of it, but if it could actually work correctly it would be fantastic. I get stuck notes a lot and sometimes it just outright goes crazy without even touching it. For example let's say I touch the bottom four plates for it to play through those, then let of and switch to the top plates, half the time it's still stuck on a note or two at the bottom while playing the ones I'm actually touching.

I want to love this thing, but being that part of the reason I bought it was to have more physical interaction in composing, this is just turning into a huge flop... confused

EDIT: I should mention I am using the new Make Noise powered skiff so unless they designed a power supply that won't work with their own modules, I'm near certain it isn't power...
imxtristan
Daisuk wrote:
Well, I got one of these, and all my touch plate woes are gone.

http://ifingi.com/

Works wonders. smile

I'm not sure if you are joking or not. hmmm.....
Daisuk
imxtristan wrote:
Daisuk wrote:
Well, I got one of these, and all my touch plate woes are gone.

http://ifingi.com/

Works wonders. smile

I'm not sure if you are joking or not. hmmm.....


Not joking, wearing one of those works for me. smile
maudibe
Quote:
imxtristan wrote:
Daisuk wrote:
Well, I got one of these, and all my touch plate woes are gone.

http://ifingi.com/

Works wonders. smile

I'm not sure if you are joking or not. hmmm.....


Not joking, wearing one of those works for me. smile


Yes... this is just a commercial version of my solution to make up a silver foil thimble for the desired digit smile Guitarists use a pick...perhaps Rene users need a finger glove lol
Daisuk
maudibe wrote:
Quote:
imxtristan wrote:
Daisuk wrote:
Well, I got one of these, and all my touch plate woes are gone.

http://ifingi.com/

Works wonders. smile

I'm not sure if you are joking or not. hmmm.....


Not joking, wearing one of those works for me. smile


Yes... this is just a commercial version of my solution to make up a silver foil thimble for the desired digit smile Guitarists use a pick...perhaps Rene users need a finger glove lol


Yeah, I tried that first, but it didn't work too well for me. The iFingi thing works wonders though. Cheap too!
dubonaire
honestly using conventional switches would have saved muffwiggler a small country's worth of bandwidth
yeskeys
Has anyone purchased a new Rene and then had to pay 30 bucks to get it fixed - within warranty? I'm on the fence trying to decide if I should cough up the cash for a new one.
ipnoteca
i just ordered a matte faceplate, if i get any improvement i will let you know!
subdo
smithknows wrote:
...
I emailed Make Noise. They responded within hours.
They say that the problem is my rack or power supply. (Cell 90)
Saying its that the power isn't grounded.

Luckily, I already have a new case on the way with a Make Noise power in it. So, we'll see if that makes it better or not.

I just wanted to add my experience to this thread as an archive for others. And if any of you have settled on causes or fixes maybe we could collect them here.



So would Rene work in a Cell 90? I know that it isn't on their list of supported cases but it seems like a pretty standard one. I've never had problems with any of my modules.
Sleipnir
subdo wrote:
smithknows wrote:
...
I emailed Make Noise. They responded within hours.
They say that the problem is my rack or power supply. (Cell 90)
Saying its that the power isn't grounded.

Luckily, I already have a new case on the way with a Make Noise power in it. So, we'll see if that makes it better or not.


So would Rene work in a Cell 90? I know that it isn't on their list of supported cases but it seems like a pretty standard one. I've never had problems with any of my modules.

My experience:
I currently have my René in a cell90 (see avatar).
It works, but I have to lick my fingers for it to register *any* touches.
I tried putting it in a Doepfer case with a nicely grounded PSU2, with zero change. very frustrating
Note that smithknows had his fixed by MN - it wasn't the case/grounding at all.
IMO it will have more to do with the rev of your particular René than what case you put it in.
ipnoteca
just installed new matte faceplate, easy to mount, feels much much better than lucid plate

Guinness ftw!
shreeswifty
bought mine new works as advertised
hallospceboy
Pressure Points not Rene, but i have the opposite problems. If my fingers are too moist the notes will stick (if I have brains being clocked and I want to jump to a different step) I find my self getting a dummy cable and tapping the plates. pretty frustrating...
lille
Unfortuntately I am in the same boat. Rene doesnt respond at all. if i moisten my fingers, then it works for 2-3 presses, then nothing again (touch grid or programming area, no matter what I press it doesn´t respond to my inputs).

really disappointing.

Is there a fix in the meantime for this other than licking my fingers , pressing with capacitive winter gloves and/or aluminium foil or grounding the PS of a case correctly?

IMO Make noise should send out reworked front plates for free to all rene users having not respnding devices.

this is really poor, MN.
lille
srsonido wrote:
There is a real, and repeatable problem with some of the Rene units. I have contacted Tony myself and asked him about this. His reply is that he feels there are more good units than bad, so in the future if / when they have time they will investigate a solution but right now there is nothing he can do about it. Meanwhile, MN continues to sell the same Rene units and many Rene users are left with substandard performance.


What did happen in the meantime? Do you still have your Rene?
Farfield
My René doesn't respond well when my hands are dry, but using a good hand moisturizer solves this problem. Try if it works! As an added benefit, your skin will feel smoother too w00t
yeskeys
I purchased one brand new last month. Was able to dial in a pretty well functioning setting for the pads, they worked consistently as long as they were touched consistently. my only beef is the upper pads are inhibited by the lights and jacks, making them more difficult to interact with.
Ish
Mine were fine at first, but now -- months later they have gotten a bit unwieldy for live use, sadly. Just getting to the right page can be a pain in the ass, especially since their is no "back" option when paging through (that I know of).
Handmedown
I run my whole system through a power conditioner. This power conditioner takes the AC and changes it to DC and then back to AC. Thereby cleaning all RF and noise out and then controls the AC voltage continually at 120 VAC. No problem with the Rene at all.
damase
Ive had rene for a couple months. Bought it used was about a year old. Like everyone was worried about the touchpads but i have had zero issues, never had to clean with alcohol or wet my fingers or anything. My case has other power crosstalk issues too but nothing bad for Rene. Love Rene
gonkulator
Handmedown wrote:
I run my whole system through a power conditioner. This power conditioner takes the AC and changes it to DC and then back to AC. Thereby cleaning all RF and noise out and then controls the AC voltage continually at 120 VAC. No problem with the Rene at all.


Specifically what power conditioner are you using?
Sleipnir
Handmedown wrote:
I run my whole system through a power conditioner. This power conditioner takes the AC and changes it to DC and then back to AC. Thereby cleaning all RF and noise out and then controls the AC voltage continually at 120 VAC. No problem with the Rene at all.

I too run off a conditioner (Waber PC600).
I tested with a Furman for a while, even tried a fully isolated ground system - no change.
As confirmed by MN (in this very thread, though secondhand), it is the unit itself, not the power. Some of us are luckier than others.
cry
Still working on my keycap conversion, but working on a mounting system.
Gonna turn it into a mini Cirklon nanners
Kreis
I just wanted to announce, that I just bought a René and that it works absolutely brilliant! It's peanut butter jelly time!

No problems with sensitivity, 99,99 % touch recognition.
waveglider
Something that might help folks who are having issues, I have tried using DeOxIt contact cleaner to good success.
After wiping the pads with alcohol swab, let dry and lightly scrub the pads with a pencil eraser to remove oxidation. Then apply the Deoxit. This process removes the accumulated crud and the Deoxit keeps the contacts conductive.

There are several factors that can contribute to the pads not working properly as discussed here, but I thought I'd throw this in as a potential aid, it helped make them more responsive for me.
tmcnvs
Kreis wrote:
I just wanted to announce, that I just bought a René and that it works absolutely brilliant! It's peanut butter jelly time!

No problems with sensitivity, 99,99 % touch recognition.



Same here. Received a brand new this week, zero problems so far.
waves_of_awesome
Just got the Rene and I'm having the grounding issue. Pretty sure it's my crappy power outlets.

I noticed that when I touch the bare/exposed rails of my case with one hand, the Rene responds perfectly. When I'm not touching the rail with one hand, it doesn't respond consistently.

Fixing my power isn't an option, I live in a rental. Is there any workaround for grounding my case any other way?
boundsound
Hey guys

i've recently bought a MN René in very good condition from a friend of mine. He never had an issue with the touch plate sensitivity, while his girlfriend complained of poor behavior every now and then.

After contacting MN, I've started to think that I must be one of the unlucky one. My unit is not eligible for any sensitivity upgrade from make noise, and the only chance is to send it over to their EU guy for an inspection.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcQI_DYNvMc&feature=youtu.be
Using a Doepfer LC9 and a brand new ribbon cable, I've tried using moisturizer but 1) is a pain in the a** 2) response rate goes up to just around 50%, so not even close to what is expected. very frustrating

Only trick working is licking my fingers razz

I will send an update as soon as I get the unit back.
evileye0702
boundsound wrote:


while his girlfriend complained of poor behavior every now and then.



My experience is that this is a very common problem.

... with the Rene too.
peripatitis
evileye0702 wrote:
boundsound wrote:


while his girlfriend complained of poor behavior every now and then.



My experience is that this is a very common problem.

... with the Rene too.


It is an unfortunate side-effect, but sticky pizza fingers and an abundance of beer has been known to help with Rene's sensitivity.
Women tend to not see the bigger picture when it comes to the ol' modular..smile
kwaidan
boundsound wrote:
After contacting MN, I've started to think that I must be one of the unlucky one. My unit is not eligible for any sensitivity upgrade from make noise, and the only chance is to send it over to their EU guy for an inspection.


Why isn't your unit eligible? I purchased a brand new, limited edition white version from them, and it worked marginally better than your unit. When I tried to contact MN, my emails were ignored. Without a doubt, the worst module I ever bought.

It's funny how they have recently helped some without admitting there is a design flaw.

With the problems involved with Tempi, they were quick to respond on this website; however, they have never replied to the constant complaints about this crummy, steal your money product. Needless to say, I sold every module with their shit-hole name on it and haven't looked back.
peteone
My experience with Make Noise was very different. I have sent them an email, they asked me about few things serial number, purchase date store etc. I Sent the module, they have calibrated it and send it back - paid for the shipping back ($8). Everything took about a week. Works like a charm. Thanks Make Noise w00t
kwaidan
peteone wrote:
My experience with Make Noise was very different. I have sent them an email, they asked me about few things serial number, purchase date store etc. I Sent the module, they have calibrated it and send it back - paid for the shipping back ($8). Everything took about a week. Works like a charm. Thanks Make Noise w00t


When did you buy it? I purchased mine in the spring of 2013 or 2014. It was new, and within a couple of weeks, I tried to contacted them several times and got no response.

I would also like to know, if you bought it new, did they charge you for shipping?

You can stick up for them, but clearly, many have been screwed. If they are so reputable, why haven't they responded to this thread or other similar threads?
southberry
Just to say that I buy a René at Control, NY less than a year ago, touch plates are very sensitive, even with the sensivity pot at minimum. Working perfectly and certainly my favorite module ... I think I need a second one ... applause
boundsound
[b]kwaidan[/b]
That's my question as well. Seems like some of them can be calibrated, others just cannot.

But the thing is - what is the tech going to do? An inspection looking for faulty what? And even if it finds out something, it was probably there since the beginning since my friends had the same issues since they got it from Schneiders.. and now i have to pay shipping to Berlin and back + 30€/hr for what?
very frustrating
boundsound
[quote="southberry"]Just to say that I buy a René at Control, NY less than a year ago, touch plates are very sensitive, even with the sensivity pot at minimum. Working perfectly and certainly my favorite module ... I think I need a second one ... applause[/quote]

which case are you using?

they suggested me to try powering my René with another case, unfortunately I don't know anybody here in Lisbon.
southberry
I used a Doepfer Low Coast Case, but I travel a lot with my case, never had a problem ....
Sleipnir
boundsound wrote:
kwaidan
That's my question as well. Seems like some of them can be calibrated, others just cannot.

But the thing is - what is the tech going to do? An inspection looking for faulty what? And even if it finds out something, it was probably there since the beginning since my friends had the same issues since they got it from Schneiders.. and now i have to pay shipping to Berlin and back + 30€/hr for what?
very frustrating


Yeah, I wish they would just post the fix here. If it's "run a jumper from C54 to the faceplate ground" or something like that, then those of us who are brave can try it (and if we bust it then it's all on us).

I promise, when I get back from this work trip, I'll dig back into my "Cirklonify" project. zombie
Circus of Mind
I've always had issues with the sensitivity of my Rene and thought it was just due to my chronically dry hands. But I recently updated my case and power supply and now my Rene is much more responsive. FYI.
boundsound
Circus of Mind wrote:
I've always had issues with the sensitivity of my Rene and thought it was just due to my chronically dry hands. But I recently updated my case and power supply and now my Rene is much more responsive. FYI.


Did you update from which to which? Any information is really appreciated.
Anyway, I'm sending it for inspection this week.
skylab001
I bought one second hand last year. It had lousy sensitivity, I could barely get the thing to work as I guess I have really dry hands. I was a bit miffed at the seller honestly for not mentioning how bad it was, even with moistened fingers. At the time I didn't know about the sensitivity issue, but figured it out really fast. I contacted MN and they had me send it in. It didn't cost much to fix. Came back and works almost as well as the one in James Ciglars videos. Much happier with it now.
morrison23usa
boundsound wrote:
Circus of Mind wrote:
I've always had issues with the sensitivity of my Rene and thought it was just due to my chronically dry hands. But I recently updated my case and power supply and now my Rene is much more responsive. FYI.


Did you update from which to which? Any information is really appreciated.
Anyway, I'm sending it for inspection this week.


I had exactly the same issues with both Rene and PressurePoints. I had a few Pittsburgh Modular cases and a Monorocket. The Monorocket did NOT exhibit the problem. After much trial and error and research it turned out to be the power supplies. The Pitts cases had external bricks made by Meanwell which are not grounded. Contacted Pittsburgh and they sent Volgen replacements which are grounded and completely fixed the issue with both Rene and PresssurePoints.

Note that tingling face plates are another symptom... Check this thread -
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139050&postdays=0&po storder=asc&start=50
boundsound
Hey guys
Just got my Rene back from EU tech and now it works perfectly with my dry fingers!

Paid 30€ for the mod (changed some PCB resistors to upper values), I still think that MN should cover this expense but they won't hear me so they probably lost a customer here.. I will upload a video soon to have the before/after mod response.
sbmani
I was so worried about having the same issue with Pressure Points..even bought used and am still happy with how sensitive they are
Snail
I have a strange experience where Pressure Points will freeze up on a particular pad and just stay on that pad for a while, despite me pressing other pads. Usually it resolves after 10-20 seconds, but it's strange.

The Rene will also occasionally change menus randomly or not respond to my press to change menu.

Do you all think these are both power issues? The strange thing is they are both powered by a Make Noise power bus.
Aaronautical001
Try wiping the pads. One possibility is that your fingers have left a residue on the pads that is keeping the circuit closed .
whodunnit
Quote:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List
I have a strange experience where Pressure Points will freeze up on a particular pad and just stay on that pad for a while, despite me pressing other pads. Usually it resolves after 10-20 seconds, but it's strange.

The Rene will also occasionally change menus randomly or not respond to my press to change menu.

Do you all think these are both power issues? The strange thing is they are both powered by a Make Noise power bus.
Back to top


Yep, sounds like the grounding problem I had when I had a René. A quick fix was to hold one hand onto the rack/rail while the other hand played the touch plates. Instantly better.
If you use René/Pressure points, you really need a propper non-isolated from ground PSU.
whodunnit
waves_of_awesome wrote:
Just got the Rene and I'm having the grounding issue. Pretty sure it's my crappy power outlets.

I noticed that when I touch the bare/exposed rails of my case with one hand, the Rene responds perfectly. When I'm not touching the rail with one hand, it doesn't respond consistently.

Fixing my power isn't an option, I live in a rental. Is there any workaround for grounding my case any other way?


Yes, patch some part of your modular to a grounded piece of equipment I.e. Mixer, speaker, cat....
Snail
Hmm, I have to 6U cases. If I only use the one with the Rene and PP, I get no buzz. Once I patch into the other, I get a hum. So power is likely an issue.

But the two 6U racks are connected to two powered monitors, which have their own separate power cords...

hmmm.....

Wonder what I can do. Patch a random cable to my cat?
whodunnit
I'm not so versed on ground loop hum, but that sounds like the problem there
tcb
Snail wrote:

Wonder what I can do. Patch a random cable to my cat?


might even help hihi
Silascomberbache
tcb wrote:
Snail wrote:

Wonder what I can do. Patch a random cable to my cat?


might even help hihi


I guess that this is that dreaded moment, where I can no longer continue my modular interest without getting the damn cat...
ElCampesino
Maybe this is the wrong thread or sub forum, but has anyone ever tried to mod the Rene to be used with regular buttons? Mine works fine when used in my doepfer case, but gets all wonky when I use it in a custom case with a switching power supply and plugged in to non grounded wall plugs.


It's probably been thought about by somebody before, and there's probaby a good reason why it's not been done by anyone, but I figured I'd ask anyway. There's some skilled DIY people around on this forum (not me, I knew you'd ask). I bet there will be quite a few people that want to chip in or help out developing something like that. I know I would.
Sleipnir
ElCampesino wrote:
Maybe this is the wrong thread or sub forum, but has anyone ever tried to mod the Rene to be used with regular buttons? Mine works fine when used in my doepfer case, but gets all wonky when I use it in a custom case with a switching power supply and plugged in to non grounded wall plugs.
It's probably been thought about by somebody before, and there's probaby a good reason why it's not been done by anyone, but I figured I'd ask anyway. There's some skilled DIY people around on this forum (not me, I knew you'd ask). I bet there will be quite a few people that want to chip in or help out developing something like that. I know I would.

Rene docs clearly state that it will not function without a proper ground. If you can, get a grounded PS for your custom case.
That said, even in a grounded case, mine doesn't function without licking my fingers.

Earlier in this very thread I mention I'm "cirklonifying" my Rene using a donor "cherry switch" keyboard. cool
I'm not done yet, as I've been trying to figure out a way to make it reversable. It's easy to just solder keys on and call it a day, but I'm not sure anyone else is willing to go that far.
Current plan is a multi-pcb setup with contact pads on one side to connect to the existing "buttons" and a pcb to solder the cherry switches into the other. The whole thing could then be mounted... somehow (screws?).
Issue yet to be even thought about is what to do about the LEDs. (leave 'em alone? Add extender tubes?)
Alternative is to use some kind of standard surface-mount buttons, but then the feel wouldn't be there.
mmagin
Sleipnir wrote:
ElCampesino wrote:
Maybe this is the wrong thread or sub forum, but has anyone ever tried to mod the Rene to be used with regular buttons? Mine works fine when used in my doepfer case, but gets all wonky when I use it in a custom case with a switching power supply and plugged in to non grounded wall plugs.
It's probably been thought about by somebody before, and there's probaby a good reason why it's not been done by anyone, but I figured I'd ask anyway. There's some skilled DIY people around on this forum (not me, I knew you'd ask). I bet there will be quite a few people that want to chip in or help out developing something like that. I know I would.

Rene docs clearly state that it will not function without a proper ground. If you can, get a grounded PS for your custom case.
That said, even in a grounded case, mine doesn't function without licking my fingers.


Funny, I see no mention of ground in http://www.makenoisemusic.com/content/manuals/ReneManual.pdf
Only a vague rant about how MeanWell power supplies are bad (but presumably everything else is okay?)

I've since sold the Rene i had -- I really wanted to like it, but I couldn't be bothered to run a new electricial circuit in the house for the one thing that gives me trouble with an untrounded outlet. As best I can guess, it just not designed using modern touch sensor technology. I never had trouble with the Korg Volcas or the KP3.
ElCampesino
Sleipnir wrote:
ElCampesino wrote:
Maybe this is the wrong thread or sub forum, but has anyone ever tried to mod the Rene to be used with regular buttons? Mine works fine when used in my doepfer case, but gets all wonky when I use it in a custom case with a switching power supply and plugged in to non grounded wall plugs.
It's probably been thought about by somebody before, and there's probaby a good reason why it's not been done by anyone, but I figured I'd ask anyway. There's some skilled DIY people around on this forum (not me, I knew you'd ask). I bet there will be quite a few people that want to chip in or help out developing something like that. I know I would.

Rene docs clearly state that it will not function without a proper ground. If you can, get a grounded PS for your custom case.
That said, even in a grounded case, mine doesn't function without licking my fingers.

Earlier in this very thread I mention I'm "cirklonifying" my Rene using a donor "cherry switch" keyboard. cool
I'm not done yet, as I've been trying to figure out a way to make it reversable. It's easy to just solder keys on and call it a day, but I'm not sure anyone else is willing to go that far.
Current plan is a multi-pcb setup with contact pads on one side to connect to the existing "buttons" and a pcb to solder the cherry switches into the other. The whole thing could then be mounted... somehow (screws?).
Issue yet to be even thought about is what to do about the LEDs. (leave 'em alone? Add extender tubes?)
Alternative is to use some kind of standard surface-mount buttons, but then the feel wouldn't be there.


Sounds interesting. Any pictures of your progress? I guess mounting another pcb on top of the current faceplate will give you issues getting it into your case properly. You could probably use plastic spacers to mount pcb to pcb.

I was thinking that maybe a replacement/alternative faceplate would be ideal. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the leds, and you could mount the original back on if you'd want that. However, I haven't really investigated if that is possible. And I lack the time and diy skills to take that on.
southberry
it sounds scary ! I never had problem with my Rene and my Doepfer PSU2
but i'm actually building a custom DIY 12u flight case and I plan to use a 4ms power solution ... hope it will works ...
confused
ElCampesino
southberry wrote:
it sounds scary ! I never had problem with my Rene and my Doepfer PSU2
but i'm actually building a custom DIY 12u flight case and I plan to use a 4ms power solution ... hope it will works ...
confused


Be afraid, be very afraid! twisted Flamey

Sorry, just joking. You might be lucky. Mine also works perfectly in my Doepfer cases, but big issues in my new portable case.
Sleipnir
mmagin wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
Rene docs clearly state that it will not function without a proper ground. If you can, get a grounded PS for your custom case.
That said, even in a grounded case, mine doesn't function without licking my fingers.

Funny, I see no mention of ground in http://www.makenoisemusic.com/content/manuals/ReneManual.pdf
Only a vague rant about how MeanWell power supplies are bad (but presumably everything else is okay?)

Well damn - I could swear it was in there (or maybe it was the PressurePoints manual). Big bold letters with "this module will not work without proper grounding" "must use MN approved power supplies", etc., etc..

ElCampesino wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
Earlier in this very thread I mention I'm "cirklonifying" my Rene using a donor "cherry switch" keyboard. cool
I'm not done yet, as I've been trying to figure out a way to make it reversable. It's easy to just solder keys on and call it a day, but I'm not sure anyone else is willing to go that far.
Current plan is a multi-pcb setup with contact pads on one side to connect to the existing "buttons" and a pcb to solder the cherry switches into the other. The whole thing could then be mounted... somehow (screws?).
Issue yet to be even thought about is what to do about the LEDs. (leave 'em alone? Add extender tubes?)
Alternative is to use some kind of standard surface-mount buttons, but then the feel wouldn't be there.


Sounds interesting. Any pictures of your progress? I guess mounting another pcb on top of the current faceplate will give you issues getting it into your case properly. You could probably use plastic spacers to mount pcb to pcb.

I was thinking that maybe a replacement/alternative faceplate would be ideal. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the leds, and you could mount the original back on if you'd want that. However, I haven't really investigated if that is possible. And I lack the time and diy skills to take that on.

You know, I never even considered replacing the faceplate. hmmm.....
Assumed it's a multi-layer pcb - but haven't pulled it off to look. There are a lot of connections under there, and i haven't worked up the nerve to yank it all apart. Now I will cool
No pics because I pull everything apart after playing with it for a while so I can use Rene again. waah
Leverkusen
mmagin wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
ElCampesino wrote:
Maybe this is the wrong thread or sub forum, but has anyone ever tried to mod the Rene to be used with regular buttons? Mine works fine when used in my doepfer case, but gets all wonky when I use it in a custom case with a switching power supply and plugged in to non grounded wall plugs.
It's probably been thought about by somebody before, and there's probaby a good reason why it's not been done by anyone, but I figured I'd ask anyway. There's some skilled DIY people around on this forum (not me, I knew you'd ask). I bet there will be quite a few people that want to chip in or help out developing something like that. I know I would.

Rene docs clearly state that it will not function without a proper ground. If you can, get a grounded PS for your custom case.
That said, even in a grounded case, mine doesn't function without licking my fingers.


Funny, I see no mention of ground in http://www.makenoisemusic.com/content/manuals/ReneManual.pdf
Only a vague rant about how MeanWell power supplies are bad (but presumably everything else is okay?)

I've since sold the Rene i had -- I really wanted to like it, but I couldn't be bothered to run a new electricial circuit in the house for the one thing that gives me trouble with an untrounded outlet. As best I can guess, it just not designed using modern touch sensor technology. I never had trouble with the Korg Volcas or the KP3.


Yep, same here - it didn't even really work in the Shared System I bought it with. Pressure points was a little better. Other touch devices as the Archangel worked flawless though. seriously, i just don't get it
mmagin
Leverkusen wrote:
mmagin wrote:
Sleipnir wrote:
ElCampesino wrote:
Maybe this is the wrong thread or sub forum, but has anyone ever tried to mod the Rene to be used with regular buttons? Mine works fine when used in my doepfer case, but gets all wonky when I use it in a custom case with a switching power supply and plugged in to non grounded wall plugs.
It's probably been thought about by somebody before, and there's probaby a good reason why it's not been done by anyone, but I figured I'd ask anyway. There's some skilled DIY people around on this forum (not me, I knew you'd ask). I bet there will be quite a few people that want to chip in or help out developing something like that. I know I would.

Rene docs clearly state that it will not function without a proper ground. If you can, get a grounded PS for your custom case.
That said, even in a grounded case, mine doesn't function without licking my fingers.


Funny, I see no mention of ground in http://www.makenoisemusic.com/content/manuals/ReneManual.pdf
Only a vague rant about how MeanWell power supplies are bad (but presumably everything else is okay?)

I've since sold the Rene i had -- I really wanted to like it, but I couldn't be bothered to run a new electricial circuit in the house for the one thing that gives me trouble with an untrounded outlet. As best I can guess, it just not designed using modern touch sensor technology. I never had trouble with the Korg Volcas or the KP3.


Yep, same here - it didn't even really work in the Shared System I bought it with. Pressure points was a little better. Other touch devices as the Archangel worked flawless though. seriously, i just don't get it


For me, it was in a Doepfer case. Worked without problem when I brought it to a properly grounded outlet on a new circuit in the kitchen, was annoyingly hard to use elsewhere in the house.
NorthBro
like a lot of you i have this problem with the lack of sensitivity of my rené.

but by reading this forum and found that none of my rooms are electric grounded eccept my kitchen, i've tried to touch the metal thing on my modular like the inputs/outputs of the modules with one hand and played with rené with a lot of difference!!!!! it changed it all. nanners

you should try: TOUCH THE IN/OUTPUT METAL PART OF A MODULE WITH ONE HAND & PLAY WITH RENE THE OTHER HAND.

problem solved. we're not worthy
whodunnit
Exactly what I said back in July. Touch the bare rack rail, fixed. Or connect the metal rail to AC earth.

Most power supplies have a floating ground, these kinds of touch plates require a ground reference, without which they have these haywire sensitivity issues. Even my Sputnik keyboard has the same issue with the same solution.
davidh
looks like this does not solved the problem on mine, I will check again
but the LS from soundmachine does have this issue, and the serge TKB neither
evileye0702
Quote:
you should try: TOUCH THE IN/OUTPUT METAL PART OF A MODULE WITH ONE HAND & PLAY WITH RENE THE OTHER HAND.

problem solved.


That might solve the problem for you but since I've only got 2 hands, I prefer to have another on free for other wiggling while playing the Rene.

Mine is so annoying I wanted to bring it to Tony when I was in Asheville last week. But time was short.

It's such a great sequencer but it's functionality gets a bit lost when I'm constantly licking my fingers to make it work the way I want.[/quote]
Varthdader
I had issues similar to those described in this thread, contacted MN support and got stellar service.

Since I am quite far away to ship my unit, performed a mod myself (resistor swap) and got Rene to work flawlessly in my rack (uZeus power).

Do not hesitate to contact support at Makenoise!
grimley
If only Rene was as responsive as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOdSJduK0U
... I would be in heaven.
Bhola
It seems that my René is pretty unresponsive to my skin, or may be that's just my skin which is the problem...

I also have a Folktek Conduit with which I was not able to get most of the plain sound it can achieves so I had to think about different way of getting more conductivity. I won't lie, I have been liking my fingers a bunch of time but I really don't want to do that with my René... I also tried with a bit of water on my hands but I'm really not confortable while doing that with all my gears around me ! So here is a solution I found... It's pretty drastic and actually maybe too much for the Conduit, but it works perfectly for the René !! w00t

R.U.Nuts
So since about a week I have a Rene, too and was immediately disappointed about how unresponsive the touchplates are to my skin. I have really dry skin. I was on the edge of returning it to the shop but I found out a nice lifehack that made my Rene super responsive, so I thought I'll share it here:
Instead of licking your fingers, pick your nose! Not joking: The nose is probably the bodypart with the greasiest skin. If you pick your nose with your fingers, you'll grease them which works way more reliable an sustaining than licking your fingers. I pick my nose once before I start playing my modular and I have no problems with touchplate responsiveness for hours.
zobbo
R.U.Nuts wrote:
So since about a week I have a Rene, too and was immediately disappointed about how unresponsive the touchplates are to my skin. I have really dry skin. I was on the edge of returning it to the shop but I found out a nice lifehack that made my Rene super responsive, so I thought I'll share it here:
Instead of licking your fingers, pick your nose! Not joking: The nose is probably the bodypart with the greasiest skin. If you pick your nose with your fingers, you'll grease them which works way more reliable an sustaining than licking your fingers. I pick my nose once before I start playing my modular and I have no problems with touchplate responsiveness for hours.

This is an excellent idea and really makes your performance surface fully in tune with your body. Personally I tend to smear my Rene with my own faeces or if stuck for time will urinate over the appropriate pads to "become as one".

The only downside I've seen is reductions in my gear's resale value and dysentery.
R.U.Nuts
zobbo wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
So since about a week I have a Rene, too and was immediately disappointed about how unresponsive the touchplates are to my skin. I have really dry skin. I was on the edge of returning it to the shop but I found out a nice lifehack that made my Rene super responsive, so I thought I'll share it here:
Instead of licking your fingers, pick your nose! Not joking: The nose is probably the bodypart with the greasiest skin. If you pick your nose with your fingers, you'll grease them which works way more reliable an sustaining than licking your fingers. I pick my nose once before I start playing my modular and I have no problems with touchplate responsiveness for hours.

This is an excellent idea and really makes your performance surface fully in tune with your body. Personally I tend to smear my Rene with my own faeces or if stuck for time will urinate over the appropriate pads to "become as one".

The only downside I've seen is reductions in my gear's resale value and dysentery.

I said touch yer nose not your butt Dead Banana
Maybe I'm a little lost in translation since I'm not a native English speaker but I didn't mean you should stick your fingers up your nose. Just touch it. That's it.
zobbo
R.U.Nuts wrote:
zobbo wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
So since about a week I have a Rene, too and was immediately disappointed about how unresponsive the touchplates are to my skin. I have really dry skin. I was on the edge of returning it to the shop but I found out a nice lifehack that made my Rene super responsive, so I thought I'll share it here:
Instead of licking your fingers, pick your nose! Not joking: The nose is probably the bodypart with the greasiest skin. If you pick your nose with your fingers, you'll grease them which works way more reliable an sustaining than licking your fingers. I pick my nose once before I start playing my modular and I have no problems with touchplate responsiveness for hours.

This is an excellent idea and really makes your performance surface fully in tune with your body. Personally I tend to smear my Rene with my own faeces or if stuck for time will urinate over the appropriate pads to "become as one".

The only downside I've seen is reductions in my gear's resale value and dysentery.

I said touch yer nose not your butt Dead Banana
Maybe I'm a little lost in translation since I'm not a native English speaker but I didn't mean you should stick your fingers up your nose. Just touch it. That's it.


No offense meant ... just some light hearted New Year jests smile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose-picking ... Nose Picking normally means removing the mucus/snot from your nose.

I use hand gel by the way for my Rene when required. Cleaner and makes your hands smell fresh and feel smooth!
R.U.Nuts
zobbo wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
zobbo wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
So since about a week I have a Rene, too and was immediately disappointed about how unresponsive the touchplates are to my skin. I have really dry skin. I was on the edge of returning it to the shop but I found out a nice lifehack that made my Rene super responsive, so I thought I'll share it here:
Instead of licking your fingers, pick your nose! Not joking: The nose is probably the bodypart with the greasiest skin. If you pick your nose with your fingers, you'll grease them which works way more reliable an sustaining than licking your fingers. I pick my nose once before I start playing my modular and I have no problems with touchplate responsiveness for hours.

This is an excellent idea and really makes your performance surface fully in tune with your body. Personally I tend to smear my Rene with my own faeces or if stuck for time will urinate over the appropriate pads to "become as one".

The only downside I've seen is reductions in my gear's resale value and dysentery.

I said touch yer nose not your butt Dead Banana
Maybe I'm a little lost in translation since I'm not a native English speaker but I didn't mean you should stick your fingers up your nose. Just touch it. That's it.


No offense meant ... just some light hearted New Year jests smile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose-picking ... Nose Picking normally means removing the mucus/snot from your nose.

I use hand gel by the way for my Rene when required. Cleaner and makes your hands smell fresh and feel smooth!

Damn Dead Banana I guess I should have done my english lessons better before posting. So to clarify for all: don't put snot on your Rene! It's sufficient to touch the outside of your nose hihi
ElCampesino
^^^
applause applause applause applause
hihi hihi hihi
ElCampesino
My guess is that any bodily secretion will do the trick. Some will stick to your fingers a bit better than others though.

hihi
HowMuchYaBench
For anyone who's actually having problems with the the touch sensitivity of their MN modules, I'd definitely recommend hitting up their tech support and sending them back.

Fixed my René right up and now it's a different module, which I actually enjoy using instead of wondering if it's going to register my touches.
bamusser
I've been having issues with a gossy faceplate version of PP. I've got a newer matte rev and an older one.
The glossy PP takes a tremendous amount of contact to engage, with the trimmer at various positions...with clean, dry, wet, dirty fingers.

The matte, perfect.

Stoked to read so much success on fixes here, gonna try cleaning, washer removal as my case [pghmod structure] shouldn't be the issue. (right?)
If all fails, I'll be reaching out to MN.

Thanks to all for good info sharing!
ElCampesino
We're cooking up an alternative front plate with buttons for Rene. Check this thread if you're interested:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2515388#2515388
ElCampesino
This morning I fired up a prototype panel with buttons on my René. It worked perfectly. Anyone who is interested, please find more information on my website: http://www.elcampesino.nl/rene-button-panel/

We hope to gather pledges from as many people as possible so we can make it worthwhile to do an order of PCB's. So if you know other people who might want one: spread the word!
zobbo
ElCampesino wrote:
This morning I fired up a prototype panel with buttons on my René. It worked perfectly. Anyone who is interested, please find more information on my website: http://www.elcampesino.nl/rene-button-panel/

We hope to gather pledges from as many people as possible so we can make it worthwhile to do an order of PCB's. So if you know other people who might want one: spread the word!


Definitely interested - mailed you on the site. Replying here to bump the thread to other interested parties.
khyber
Cool idea, I have always had issues with my Rene due to sensitivity. It would be nice to see a more innovative panel design, however. The text looks very small, an improvement over the legibility of the stock Rene, but much left to be desired in my opinion.
Hththt
So i wanted to get a rene or PP but this isnt too good to read.

Does all this means my idea of a mini skiff with rene or PP running from a power bank (battery) is condemned to fail??? (Grounding)
Sleipnir
Hththt wrote:
Does all this means my idea of a mini skiff with rene or PP running from a power bank (battery) is condemned to fail??? (Grounding)

Rene and PP use different methods to sense touch.
PP will prob be fine.
ElCampesino
Hththt wrote:
So i wanted to get a rene or PP but this isnt too good to read.

Does all this means my idea of a mini skiff with rene or PP running from a power bank (battery) is condemned to fail??? (Grounding)


Your mileage may vary. Some people have no problems whatsoever. But for those who do, we have made a panel for Rene with buttons. Still have a few available. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

Cheers, Rob
khyber
For what it's worth, I contacted Make Noise a few months ago and they confirmed that my Rene was from an early batch that didn't have great touchpad sensitivity. I sent the unit it and they worked some magic, suddenly my Rene is super responsive and I couldn't be happier.

Only took me 4 years of ownership to finally be able to use it to a satisfactory degree! MY ASS IS BLEEDING
tnktni
Interesting to hear, I wonder what they modded to change its responsiveness?
worra
R.U.Nuts wrote:
zobbo wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
zobbo wrote:
R.U.Nuts wrote:
So since about a week I have a Rene, too and was immediately disappointed about how unresponsive the touchplates are to my skin. I have really dry skin. I was on the edge of returning it to the shop but I found out a nice lifehack that made my Rene super responsive, so I thought I'll share it here:
Instead of licking your fingers, pick your nose! Not joking: The nose is probably the bodypart with the greasiest skin. If you pick your nose with your fingers, you'll grease them which works way more reliable an sustaining than licking your fingers. I pick my nose once before I start playing my modular and I have no problems with touchplate responsiveness for hours.

This is an excellent idea and really makes your performance surface fully in tune with your body. Personally I tend to smear my Rene with my own faeces or if stuck for time will urinate over the appropriate pads to "become as one".

The only downside I've seen is reductions in my gear's resale value and dysentery.

I said touch yer nose not your butt Dead Banana
Maybe I'm a little lost in translation since I'm not a native English speaker but I didn't mean you should stick your fingers up your nose. Just touch it. That's it.


No offense meant ... just some light hearted New Year jests smile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose-picking ... Nose Picking normally means removing the mucus/snot from your nose.

I use hand gel by the way for my Rene when required. Cleaner and makes your hands smell fresh and feel smooth!

Damn Dead Banana I guess I should have done my english lessons better before posting. So to clarify for all: don't put snot on your Rene! It's sufficient to touch the outside of your nose hihi






This is the best thing in this thread lol
dave999z
I have read through this thread and searched but haven’t seen... Has anyone found a power strip (with surge protector) that Rene seems to work well with?

I know for many the issue is their Euro power supply, but that’s not the problem I have. I think for me it’s my power strip, because it seems to work somewhat better when I bypass the strip and plug my power supply straight into the wall. That said, I don’t want to plug my Euro straight into the wall and trust thousands of dollars in modules to Dominion Power. So I’d like a power strip surge protector that has a good ground that plays well with Rene.
Dogma
ElCampesino wrote:
Hththt wrote:
So i wanted to get a rene or PP but this isnt too good to read.

Does all this means my idea of a mini skiff with rene or PP running from a power bank (battery) is condemned to fail??? (Grounding)


Your mileage may vary. Some people have no problems whatsoever. But for those who do, we have made a panel for Rene with buttons. Still have a few available. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

Cheers, Rob


even though we have a mkii on its way i know so many people who want to do this and ive tried contacting you guys but with no response....
is this still available??
Oldstench
One thing I sometimes do if I get hit with the ol' non-responsive blues is to take a cable, plug it into an unused mult jack and touch the tip to the touchplate. Activates 100% of the time.
ElCampesino
Dogma wrote:
ElCampesino wrote:
Hththt wrote:
So i wanted to get a rene or PP but this isnt too good to read.

Does all this means my idea of a mini skiff with rene or PP running from a power bank (battery) is condemned to fail??? (Grounding)


Your mileage may vary. Some people have no problems whatsoever. But for those who do, we have made a panel for Rene with buttons. Still have a few available. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

Cheers, Rob


even though we have a mkii on its way i know so many people who want to do this and ive tried contacting you guys but with no response....
is this still available??


Hey James, sorry about being unreachable. Hadn't logged on to Muffs for a while. I've replied to your PM. Still a few available.
gliese
Glad to know it wasn't just me..
boundsound
tnktni wrote:
Interesting to hear, I wonder what they modded to change its responsiveness?


In my case, i've sent my René to Schneider and Igor changed a few resistors. After the mod my rené responds way better, so it's worth a try if it's still the case. (I'm using a LC9 from Doepfer)
Xtheunknown
I’m considering purchasing a used Rene version 1. I’m wondering if most of the units with touch plate issues have been fixed, or whether there is a big risk in the pool of those in circulation. I have a large Doepfer case and will have conditioned power, although I have very dry skin. Does anyone know if Make Noise still repairs units with faulty touch plates? Anyone still frustrated with touch plate issues that they haven’t been able to solve?

The alternative is a Voltage Block to complement my Mother 32 and Varigate 4+.
hlprmnky
Xtheunknown wrote:
I’m considering purchasing a used Rene version 1. I’m wondering if most of the units with touch plate issues have been fixed, or whether there is a big risk in the pool of those in circulation. I have a large Doepfer case and will have conditioned power, although I have very dry skin. Does anyone know if Make Noise still repairs units with faulty touch plates? Anyone still frustrated with touch plate issues that they haven’t been able to solve?

The alternative is a Voltage Block to complement my Mother 32 and Varigate 4+.


As someone who has had a VG4+/VB combo and now has a Rene2 instead, I would say that a key point of evaluation you can do right now is: try to do the sequencing you would want to do on the Rene with the VG4+. The sliders on the Voltage Block are going to give you essentially the same user experience in terms of ease of choosing a particular pitch, for example.
Xtheunknown
hlprmnky wrote:
Xtheunknown wrote:
I’m considering purchasing a used Rene version 1. I’m wondering if most of the units with touch plate issues have been fixed, or whether there is a big risk in the pool of those in circulation. I have a large Doepfer case and will have conditioned power, although I have very dry skin. Does anyone know if Make Noise still repairs units with faulty touch plates? Anyone still frustrated with touch plate issues that they haven’t been able to solve?

The alternative is a Voltage Block to complement my Mother 32 and Varigate 4+.


As someone who has had a VG4+/VB combo and now has a Rene2 instead, I would say that a key point of evaluation you can do right now is: try to do the sequencing you would want to do on the Rene with the VG4+. The sliders on the Voltage Block are going to give you essentially the same user experience in terms of ease of choosing a particular pitch, for example.


Thanks so much for the response and for the advice! What led you to switch? What is your experience with the touch plate reliability?
nectarios
Rene mk1 user for 4-5 years here.
I really like it, its my most used sequencer overall, although about a year or two ago I kinda stopped using it because of the touch plate. Put it on sale along with Pressure Points.

Rene did not get sold, mainly because Rene mk2 came out and no one is touching the mk1 because of the touch plate issues and of course the added features of the mk2.

Luckily I found the alternative Rene mk1 panel and that saved the module for me. I started using it again and its my go to sequencer for main parts in tunes. So I am glad I didn't sell it. Not planning on getting the mk2 anyway.
hlprmnky
Xtheunknown wrote:
hlprmnky wrote:
Xtheunknown wrote:
I’m considering purchasing a used Rene version 1. I’m wondering if most of the units with touch plate issues have been fixed, or whether there is a big risk in the pool of those in circulation. I have a large Doepfer case and will have conditioned power, although I have very dry skin. Does anyone know if Make Noise still repairs units with faulty touch plates? Anyone still frustrated with touch plate issues that they haven’t been able to solve?

The alternative is a Voltage Block to complement my Mother 32 and Varigate 4+.


As someone who has had a VG4+/VB combo and now has a Rene2 instead, I would say that a key point of evaluation you can do right now is: try to do the sequencing you would want to do on the Rene with the VG4+. The sliders on the Voltage Block are going to give you essentially the same user experience in terms of ease of choosing a particular pitch, for example.


Thanks so much for the response and for the advice! What led you to switch? What is your experience with the touch plate reliability?

I have had no complaints with the touch plates in the Rene, but I do have the mk2, not the mk1.

I really really liked the VG4+/VB combination in many ways, but what I didn’t like to the point where I went looking for a different sequencer was just the difficulty of hitting a desired quantized pitch with the sliders. It’s my experience that even in the VG4+’s “octave restrict” mode, moving the slider up or down to “the next note” is an exercise in overshooting, then overshooting back, then “why am I hearing a G# now, did it just ...not stop on F, F#, or G!?”.
It would be borderline acceptable if you wanted to always take the time to build and save your sequences “offline”, one note at a time, and then select among saved sequences while playing, but that’s only a small part of how I tend to want to work.
In fact, one of the very best things about the Malekko “school” of sequence design is the extremely deep control over randomization, both of gates and pitches. It’s really fun to either set a range of possible pitches for a step, or just set an entire sequence to random (quantized) pitches and then change it up a step at a time as you go, which makes it all the more painful when that change is a pain to dial in!
I don’t think this is anything Malekko did wrong, either - I have some experience with other modules (MI Stages, Xaoc Belgrad) with similar sliders and I just don’t think that a ~3cm slider throw with the precision to cleanly and reliably pick among 5 octaves of notes has been created by human industry.
With Rene, as with other sequencers like the Xaoc Moskwa or any of the pre-Eurorack sequencers in Rene’s design lineage, the precision afforded by a rotary control makes choosing a new note for a step much less of a hassle, even in a live context. Switching up access, gate, and snake modes goes a long way toward offering the same “flight envelope” as the Malekko school, but in a very different manner, and without any of the really powerful and fun probability control the Malekko modules offer.
Overall, I’m content with my decision, but if those darn sliders worked just a little better, I might never have been pushed to investigate other options at all. I hope you find the additional thoughts helpful.
Xtheunknown
Wow - thanks so much for the detailed explanation of your experience! It’s exceedingly helpful and a René is definitely in my future.
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