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the buchla filter thread
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Buchla, EMS & Serge Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next [all]
Author the buchla filter thread
2012
I still wander if a 200e would be something for me..

No offence but it sound cheap in my ears,i mean very mid range,a bit like the serge filters,i wander if the 200e can generate massive sounds to?
Lyonel
2012 wrote:
No offence but it sound cheap in my ears,i mean very mid range,a bit like the serge filters,i wander if the 200e can generate massive sounds to?


Yep, no Big Fat Moog sound here it seems... perhaps it's not the purpose smile ;
One could always insert a greasy, fatty but external filter in the chain.
science
i donos i hasnt no how two maek it do biggar sound u try tho thx lol

By the way, I only have one oscillator in my system right now. I also wasn't trying for a "fat" sound in either of those patches.
science
cbm wrote:
In this second clip I also might hear some clipping on the input of a 291e Triple Morphing Filter, which is sort of sensitive to the input level.

Really? Strange... I wasn't really feeding it a hot signal at all. I'll have to look at that patch again tonight and check it out.

The squelchy, distorted sound is coming from the mod osc of the 261e being fed through a 292e gate being controlled by the 281e and into the mod inputs on the 291e.
dougcl
science wrote:
i donos i hasnt no how two maek it do biggar sound u try tho thx lol


hihi

Of all the things to complain about meh getting a fat sound is one of the easiest things to do on a synthesizer. Lemme go out on a limb here and guess that a unison patch with three 261's is going to be "fat."
2012
dougcl wrote:
science wrote:
i donos i hasnt no how two maek it do biggar sound u try tho thx lol


hihi

Of all the things to complain about meh getting a fat sound is one of the easiest things to do on a synthesizer. Lemme go out on a limb here and guess that a unison patch with three 261's is going to be "fat."


I havent no doubt sure that is those oscillators will andcan sound fat

just wandering the filter weak can handle it...
science
2012 wrote:
just wandering the filter weak can handle it...

?

I really have no idea what you're trying to say... can you clarify?
dougcl
2012 wrote:

just wandering the filter weak can handle it...


Weak in what way?
2012
dougcl wrote:
2012 wrote:

just wandering the filter weak can handle it...


Weak in what way?


To weak to sound 'massive'
science
hmmm.....
dougcl
2012 wrote:
dougcl wrote:
2012 wrote:

just wandering the filter weak can handle it...


Weak in what way?


To weak to sound 'massive'


So you are wondering if the filter has a poor frequency response. Ok. Your original post asked whether the Buchla could generate massive sounds. Having agreed that this is pointless in principle, now you focus your speculation on the filter. Why speculate?
2012
dougcl wrote:
2012 wrote:
dougcl wrote:
2012 wrote:

just wandering the filter weak can handle it...


Weak in what way?


To weak to sound 'massive'


So you are wondering if the filter has a poor frequency response. Ok. Your original post asked whether the Buchla could generate massive sounds. Having agreed that this is pointless in principle, now you focus your speculation on the filter. Why speculate?


I cannot test one,so i have to base me on what i can hear from users that own a 200e,and so far i never did hear 'massive' sounds.

If its pointless in principe you never need to listen to any demo of any synth or other electronic sound generating device and just buy with it no matter if it costs 200$ or 20000$,am sure u will quickly change your mind then,or perhaps u just could buy it for the status symbol,then the sound doesn't matter ofcource..

But i wander where i did wrote the filter has an poor frequency responce ,+ frequency responce has no relationship in order to be able to sound 'massive' .
science
Even ignoring the language barrier, you make very little sense.
2012
science wrote:
Even ignoring the language barrier, you make very little sense.


In your eyes for sure because u already have your 200e..
2012
science wrote:
Even ignoring the language barrier, you make very little sense.


U could also contribute an post demo's to see what the filter can handle or how it sounds in different modes,a classic synth voice chain for example an no use of any effect,only THEN we can take conclusions and will discover if my posts made any sense!
Lyonel
As for me, I understand your comments 2012, and you're perhaps not so wrong.
I think (seen by far away from a Buchla but very near from a voyager) that there is a (sort of) Moog (LP24dB) sound and a (sort of) Buchla (BandPass/LPG) one.
And that's great... no ?
You know, sort of : Congas AND Bongos, or : Oil AND water-colour.
2012
Lyonel wrote:
As for me, I understand your comments 2012, and you're perhaps not so wrong.
I think (seen by far away from a Buchla but very near from a voyager) that there is a (sort of) Moog (LP24dB) sound and a (sort of) Buchla (BandPass/LPG) one.
And that's great... no ?
You know, sort of : Congas AND Bongos, or : Oil AND water-colour.


yes but i can not determine exactly the sound (read complete possibilities)of the filter by any demo's so far,and i would like to hear/know those.

Serge filters have also such a specific midrange sound,but its only when u can try one yourself (also because of the lack of good specific demo's) that u know thge possibilities (wich is the case now that i have one at home,and i like them)

U can find or ask/request specific module-demo's from users of any euro system ,modcan,.com etc but serge,buchla,wiard seems to be difficult (all expensive modules,like the owners are afraid for any 'negative' conclusion that might be change there own thoughts considering the high costs payd for there systems wich could be perfectly understandable ,immagine u discover that finaly you can obtain exactly the same sound out an 3000$ worth euro system well known u payd 4x more because there is 'Buchla' writen on the frontpanels)
Lyonel
2012 wrote:
U can find or ask/request specific module-demo's from users of any euro system ,modcan,.com etc but serge,buchla,wiard seems to be difficult (all expensive modules,like the owners are afraid for any 'negative' conclusion that might be change there own thoughts considering the high costs payd for there systems wich could be perfectly understandable ,immagine u discover that finaly you can obtain exactly the same sound out an 3000$ worth euro system well known u payd 4x more because there is 'Buchla' writen on the frontpanels)



Mr Buchla's machines generate not only sounds....
Don't be prosaic 2012 grin
2012
Lyonel wrote:


Mr Buchla's machines generate not only sounds....


Yes it seems!,thats a good reflection lol thumbs up
Lyonel
Links to some great 200e Recordings :

http://soundcloud.com/johan-boberg
http://soundcloud.com/divisionbyzero
http://homepage.mac.com/bartonmusic/FileSharing13.html
http://www.xfade.com/Buchla/
http://soundcloud.com/jason-butcher-don-hassler
http://share.ovi.com/album/donh.public

among others.
cbm
2012 wrote:
yes but i can not determine exactly the sound (read complete possibilities)of the filter by any demo's so far,and i would like to hear/know those.

Part of the problem is the the question is framed in the language of a subtractive, filter-centric, worldview.

Current Buchla systems have two filter types, the low pass gate, and the triple morphing filter. The only trouble is that these filters are not the primary sound sculpting tools in the system. The Buchla oscillators, from the Music Easel forward, have complex timbre generation capabilities, which are the primary ways that the spectrum is changed over time on a Buchla system.


Quote:
immagine u discover that finaly you can obtain exactly the same sound out an 3000$ worth euro system well known u payd 4x more because there is 'Buchla' writen on the frontpanels)

I would be surprised if any of the recent group of 200e owners were unfamiliar with Euro systems. I have a smallish Euro system that I put together to try and emulate a typical Buchla patch. It was never very satisfying to play, and didn't sound as good as the Buchla, to my ears. Certainly the way one interacts with the Buchla, and how one interacts with the Euro are worlds apart.
2012
cbm wrote:
The only trouble is that these filters are not the primary sound sculpting tools in the system. The Buchla oscillators, from the Music Easel forward, have complex timbre generation capabilities, which are the primary ways that the spectrum is changed over time on a Buchla system.


Yes 30 years ago,but not today anymore!

U have all kind of timbre generation/modification modules available in different formats these days, so there is no reason why not someone would focus on the filter of the 200e and compare it with filters from other brands.

More,there is no need for complex sources to check how a filter mainly can perform ,a saw waveform is sufficent

Untill now the impression i have from the 200e is that its doing very well what it can do,but the sound spectrum seems to be very limited maybe due to the filter carateristics that are very typical/limited ,considering its 3 multimodes in one module it should have plenty of 'posibilities'/sound spectra instead.
dougcl
2012 wrote:
but the sound spectrum seems to be very limited maybe due to the filter carateristics


And this answers your earlier question. You are speculating about the frequency response of the system in general and the filter in particular. So here's a thought experiment. Consider three 261's in a unison patch. Do you believe that the resulting sound will likely be "massive" in your definition? If not, then why? And if so, you are done with this question and there is no need to speculate further about the filter unless you wish to focus on subtractive synthesis.
2012
dougcl wrote:
2012 wrote:
but the sound spectrum seems to be very limited maybe due to the filter carateristics


And this answers your earlier question. You are speculating about the frequency response of the system in general and the filter in particular. So here's a thought experiment. Consider three 261's in a unison patch. Do you believe that the resulting sound will likely be "massive" in your definition? If not, then why? And if so, you are done with this question and there is no need to speculate further about the filter unless you wish to focus on subtractive synthesis.


Not realy,i use 'spectrum' and not 'frequency responce' because u can have wide 'frequency responce' without been able to get massive sounds (modern AD/DA converters for example in cheap soundcards).

Well your question is exactly abouth what i wander and would like to know how the filter react.

3x 261's ( in unison or not )can be 'massive' (depending what your ,our perception of 'massive' is),the point is if that 'massive-ness' will remain once u feed this trough the filter,that is basicaly what interests me and i repeat, for that u do not need 3 vco's,one is enough in fact.

Yes we come to the focus of subtractive synthesis,but filtering is substractive synthesis,so i wander to what point you want to come as my questions where clearly pointed out to the filter in particular since my first posts,i have no doubth abouth the 261e as i did listen to online demos where it was compared with the 292.
HexEnduction
Hey 2012,

How about starting a new thread? You're kind of hijacking the thread of someone that just received their brand new instrument and is excited about sharing sounds/pics/thoughts about said instrument.

You have some interesting points and questions but this really isn't the appropriate thread.
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