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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Synth Werk moog 901 a/b clones
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next [all]
Author Synth Werk moog 901 a/b clones
burnsjed
With the announcement that Synth Werk are reproducing the 901 a/b Moog clones Oscillator clones, I thought it would be cleaner to have all discussion on these modules in its own designated thread.

As you can see (from their website) they are also planning other Moog clones that are either already available for order, or in the case of the 914 fixed filter, will be released at a later date.
JohnLRice
Nobody has anything to say on these fine looking modules? seriously, i just don't get it
NYMo
There is a demo in a current thread.
Its most probably on page 2 by now hihi

Cheers
Shy
Only 1,200 euro? And to think no one commented.
EMwhite
All of the inductor based FFBs are $1000+

Comes from the fact that the coils alone run $250-$300. Oh that, and it's a major price gouging opportunity hihi

If you listen to demos of the dotcom or the MOS-LAB (which is based on the YuSynth design) they are pretty convincing.
JohnLRice
Shy wrote:
Only 1,200 euro? And to think no one commented.
It does seem a might expensive but it is 1200 euro for 3 VCOs and the controller module. You could break it down to 325 for each VCO and 225 for the controller. COTK's and Mos-Lab's versions are 220 and 160 so, yes, Synthwerk is about 30% more expensive.
NYMo
I do have the Synthwerk 904a and the CP3 mixer..they are both pretty good.

The osc ( at the time) were too much for me and I ended up with 2 cotk 901a and 6 901 b ...but the mixer is what makes the most difference in sound ( IMHO ) as I run the other osc bank through a Q112.

Cheers
Synthoholic
It would be prudent at this juncture to compare the differences between the Mos-Lab 901ab and the Synth Werk.

Other than the price that is....
jmcecil
I can't get the pdf to load from there site. Can anyone tell me the power connector situation?
Shy
The "Modules" page on the site has the info. Standard .com connector, +15/-15 V.
jmcecil
Shy wrote:
The "Modules" page on the site has the info. Standard .com connector, +15/-15 V.

I don't see it on the modules page. Just price and pictures.
NYMo
Take it from an owner..it's a normal dotcom connector.

Cheers
jmcecil
NYMo wrote:
Take it from an owner..it's a normal dotcom connector.

Cheers

oops Dead Banana I didn't mean to imply that the information Shy provided wasn't correct. And I appreciate the info. I was only saying that for whatever reason, the site I get has absolutely no technical information about the modules.

I've clicked around all over the site and this is the only thing I can find. There are pictures further down.
Shy
jmcecil wrote:
Shy wrote:
The "Modules" page on the site has the info. Standard .com connector, +15/-15 V.

I don't see it on the modules page. Just price and pictures.

http://www.synth-werk.com/modules.cfm
jmcecil
lol, the drop down itself has a top level link. DOH d'oh!
kindredlost
I too am interested in the differences between the three Moog 901a/b clones available. The claim from Synth-Werk is that their waveforms are an exact clone. Is it true of the other two (MosLab and COTK)?

Are the output levels the 2.5Vpp like the original Moog? I think MosLab states this about the 901 and adds an option to convert to higher output levels, but I don't see that on the 901-A/B clones.

I also like the fact that MosLab sells the 901-A and 901-B separately. Synth-Werk sells them in a bundle which takes a bit more planning to save up.

The sine waveform Synth-Werk displays on the 901 page comparing it to an original Moog looks very similar to the dotcom Q106. The triangle waveform looks pretty different though. How much of this cloned waveform aspect will be important to the original Moog sound? It is the Holy Grail of sounds IMO. I have the mixer aspect and a MosLab 904-A filter but have found the sound to be quite elusive.
EMwhite
According to Sebastien from MOS-LAB, the original 901 (and the MOS-LAB 901 modules) ran with 1.3Vpp output. Not sure if that is max, starting point, or average of all of the waves (see below)

And the 921b output levels were 1.5Vpp as are the current MOS-LAB clones (per the announcement in the news section on the MOS-LAB site in May).

MOS-LAB 921b serial numbers prior to 14187 had output of 5Vpp, so they had an additional output amp circuit on them. I have a few of these and this configuration is handy if you've got a mixed system with STG Filters or whatever. Whether the MOS-LAB gain amp is better than using another method to amplify a signal is beyond me. I am happy with my system, however.

Otherwise, if you look at Dave's site (http://modularsynthesis.com/moog/moog.htm) you'll see a very nicely documented 901 era modular and he measured the output levels of the Sine wave (usually the least loud waveform) from a 901b at 1.41Vpp; I'm not sure if this was the fully restored module, a 'working' module that may have had some aging or if it's based on specifications that he got his hands on but do your own research and draw your own conclusions... I'm just sharing what I've learned.
kindredlost
Thanks EMWhite.

I'm not as concerned about the "loudness" of a module as much as integrating it with other modules which run at higher levels on average. I am delighted at the 904-A MOS-LAB module characteristics and have no problems working in louder signals by attenuation. It is the opposite concern when using "quieter" levels into modules expecting higher signals. Gain staging is not quite as easy with very few modules set up for clean amplification in the 5U world.

I do have a Q118 Instrument Interface and an STG Signal Amplifiers module (which does exhibit some asymmetric distortion), so a way to boost a signal is available. Even then, it is not much of a concern because attenuation and gain reduction is always done before recording anyway. My usual pre-compression gain targets are at -8dB or less from the incoming signal to leave room for transients and spikes. I'm of the opinion most of the "Moogy" sounds from the tape era are caused by poor gain staging to begin with.

Sorry for the protracted response and thanks again for the clarification.
Synthoholic
Anyone that knows me knows that I'm no engineer. But from what I have read on the Moog forum from the knowledgable people there, it takes more than just an exact waveform to get the "Moog" tone.

One has to match the power supply as well as the interplay between the VCO VCF VCA mixer and the EnvGens to get the sound. Everything that I have read thus far indicates that Seb has accomplished this.
NYMo
kindredlost wrote:
Thanks EMWhite.

I'm not as concerned about the "loudness" of a module as much as integrating it with other modules which run at higher levels on average. I am delighted at the 904-A MOS-LAB module characteristics and have no problems working in louder signals by attenuation. It is the opposite concern when using "quieter" levels into modules expecting higher signals. Gain staging is not quite as easy with very few modules set up for clean amplification in the 5U world.

I do have a Q118 Instrument Interface and an STG Signal Amplifiers module (which does exhibit some asymmetric distortion), so a way to boost a signal is available. Even then, it is not much of a concern because attenuation and gain reduction is always done before recording anyway. My usual pre-compression gain targets are at -8dB or less from the incoming signal to leave room for transients and spikes. I'm of the opinion most of the "Moogy" sounds from the tape era are caused by poor gain staging to begin with.

Sorry for the protracted response and thanks again for the clarification.


One of the interesting things about the cotk 901 s is that they have the 901c which brings the osc up to normal modular levels.

I don't have one of those myself but use a few Q125s for getting levels up and down etc.

For interests sake , the output level on my cotk 901b is approx the same as a Q106 at a volume of 2.3.

Cheers
ualslosar
<<But from what I have read on the Moog forum from the knowledgable people there, it takes more than just an exact waveform to get the "Moog" tone. >>

From what I understand, Synth-Werk modules use a dotcom connector but operate internally at Moog +12 / -6 voltages.

Regards
Larry
josaka
this is quite interesting.. I would love to see this type of test done with mos-lab/cotk/synth-werks/.com ... smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewkTA05hqmk

ersatzplanet
I just wish they would change their name. As long as they stay out of Eurorack and keep having the space in the middle...
JohnLRice
ersatzplanet wrote:
I just wish they would change their name. As long as they stay out of Eurorack and keep having the space in the middle...
I know, that sucks when that happens. They don't have an "s" at the end either but it is still a bit confusing. Seems unlikely they'll enter the eurorack market though. http://www.synth-werk.com/
josaka
sorry about the spelling .. smile
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