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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

machinedrum vs. maschine
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author machinedrum vs. maschine
intellijel
Been reading about the Maschine and I definitely need to try this. I am wondering if it will be superior to the machinedrum?

I have a mdUWmkII and although I like it for sound design I don't like its interface for realtime performance. Also the price of the MD is very high when you consider that I could buy almost for maschine for the same price.
shamann
intellijel wrote:
Also the price of the MD is very high when you consider that I could buy almost for maschine for the same price.

It's not that high when you consider the cost of the computer to run Maschine, since the Maschine hardware makes no sound on its own.

I haven't tried Maschine. Only person I know who's tried it is a beta tester for NI, so I haven't even encountered much in the way of anecdotal reviews of it. Shame you can't demo the software without the hardware, I'd like to see how it handles in comparison to something like Guru.

Does Maschine have any synth engines? I was under the impression it was all sample-based.
pix
I've had both and while I got fed up with the MD's sound it is still preferable to the maschine. Once you start messing up with the samples you lose the transients and the whole thing doesn't sound so good.

the MD otoh, if you like its character, gives you hi quality punchy sounds.

my 2 cents
felix
What are the aspects that you don't like about the MD in terms of real-time performance? There are actually quite a few non-obvious things that make for a really cool live-performance experience that are not necessarily intuitive (or clearly defined in the manual).
thelizard
I tested a Maschine briefly at a Guitar Center, and I found it to be very enjoyable, and I was able to make a pretty cool beat without looking at the screen at all.

That being said, even though I've never used a MachineDrum (I just lust after them every single day), they are two different things. The Maschine is sampling only, while the MD is a collection of performance-based drum synths, with an upgrade option for sampling. Also, MachineDrums and MonoMachines work very well as sequencers for other equipment, while I hear that the Maschine sequencing still needs some work (although the 1.1 patch is coming out soon).

That being said, the effects that are built into Maschine are astounding. There are plenty of awesome automation options (you should watch the videos at NI's site). I'm actually planning on buying one eventually, but I'm waiting to see if their is a Komplete 6 Upgrade deal sometime between now and Christmas before I bite.

Btw, if you haven't seen it, this video really sums up why the MachineDrum is such a lust-worthy piece of gear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtxX0VEpMSI
tIB
Apples and pairs for me: 2 entirely different things.

Out of the 2 Id take the MD... but then Id take anything that doesn't make me turn on a computer over something that does.
bbow73
tIB wrote:
Apples and pairs for me: 2 entirely different things.

Out of the 2 Id take the MD... but then Id take anything that doesn't make me turn on a computer over something that does.


gotta agree with you there, the MD is a powerful drum synthesizer, you can tweak the sounds till the end of time. But Maschine seems more focused on performance and writing and being able to tweak your beats....I feel a new slogan

TWEAK YOUR BEATS!!!
tIB
FWIW the only real problem I have with the MD is that I cant do different step lengths on each track... I bought a ruin & wesen minicommand to hopefully overcome that one day.
felix
tIB wrote:
FWIW the only real problem I have with the MD is that I cant do different step lengths on each track...
Same here. That and running different tracks at different tempo divisions.
tIB
^ that would be cool too, though I hadnt wanted that until now hmmm.....
felix
tIB wrote:
^ that would be cool too, though I hadnt wanted that until now hmmm.....

haha, oops, sorry hihi

It's a pipe dream really. Even if they could re-architect their system to have each track running at different lengths and rates, the current control scheme is not setup well to manage that (or even display it) and the elegant manner that it currently has. As much as I'd love both (or either) of those features, I think it's a decent trade off. It could certainly do without more complexity than it already has.
tIB
Yeah it would be cool but as it is I love it dearly anyway... and song mode can get you around rhythmic restrictions in a more experimental/unpredictable way... self promotion but check out this 16 step pattern: http://soundcloud.com/tib/song-mode-master-seq-experiment

w00t
felix
SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!

I really need to dig further into song mode.
tIB
Since Im winning here is another experiment:

http://soundcloud.com/tib/song-mode-experiment-2

though it gets boring fairly quickly I tried to mix in the glitchy song mode shit with a few more basic patterns at different clock speeds.

Anyhows... back on topic I like jamming in and out of songmode: its worth setting up some glitchy bits to drop in and out of when playing live (if thats your style of course)

(oh, and not that I actually play live out of my flat oops )
intellijel
felix wrote:
What are the aspects that you don't like about the MD in terms of real-time performance?


-you often need to use two hands to get to a commonly/frequently used parameter/page (i.e. key combo presses)
-tiny screen
-limited amount of knobs
-focused on editing one sound at a time unless you use the CTRL tracks and then you can only control a few parameters.
-no dedicated buttons for mute
-no solo!!!
-no sample names
-cumbersome kit management.

A lot can be fixed by using the multi i/o with an analog mixer plus a midi controller and a max patch. However you are then involving a lot more equipment.
felix
intellijel wrote:

-you often need to use two hands to get to a commonly/frequently used parameter/page (i.e. key combo presses)

I can see that, for example, having to cycle between synth, effects, and routing rather than move back and forth, but having a dedicated button for each one would really crowd things up. I've gotten pretty used to how many presses it takes to get to a page from the page that I'm at. The MPC had a lot of two-hand combos and I was able to fly around that system too.

intellijel wrote:
-tiny screen

It is, but I don't find it too small. If anything, I just find the most problems is with viewing angle. It becomes really hard to see as you move off-axis from looking directly at it.

intellijel wrote:
-limited amount of knobs

I think this goes into size trade off. The MD would be considerably larger if there was a knob for each function for each page. They also couldn't be labeled the same because they knobs are repurposed for Master FX editing for example. I think the 8P machine is a nice alternative to having a knob for everything as you can pick your favorite controls for a particular sound, even if they would normally span the synth/effect/routing pages.

intellijel wrote:
-focused on editing one sound at a time unless you use the CTRL tracks and then you can only control a few parameters.

You can use [FUNCTION] + encoder to control that control across *all* tracks. This is really interesting on the synthesis page because encoder B for example is not always the same synthesis aspect for each machine. After tweaking the hell out of all the controls, you can hit [FUNCTION] + [CLASSIC/EXTENDED] and it immediately resets all the parameters to the store values of the Kit (basically kit reload).
intellijel wrote:
-no dedicated buttons for mute

I'm assuming you mean outside of MUTE mode. When your in MUTE mode ([FUNCTION + Bank A/E (MUTE)] each of the 16 trigger keys acts as a mute/un-mute button. I could swear there was another "mute shortcut" that you could do per-track without going into MUTE mode, but I can't recall specifically now - maybe tiB remembers.

intellijel wrote:
-no solo!!!

Not specifically, but you can "queue up" mutes/un-mutes in MUTE mode. If you hold down [FUNCTION] and press the trigger keys, it will setup those tracks to either mute or un-mute, but it won't actually do it until you let go of the [FUNCTION] key. This is really awesome because you can setup pretty complicated changes by instantly unmuting some tracks while muting others. To solo you would simply hold [FUNCTION] and pressed all the trigger keys for the tracks that you don't want to solo and then release [FUNCTION] so they all mute at the same time.
intellijel wrote:
-no sample names

This would be nice particularly when you've had a collection of samples loaded for a long time and have forgotten what each ones is. However, I find that I really don't care what each sample is because the real fun of using the same is tweaking them until they are no longer recognizable, so knowing what I'm starting with has become rather unimportant.

intellijel wrote:
-cumbersome kit management.

I'm assuming you mean that kits are tied to patterns when in [EXTENDED] mode, so you can accidently change patterns and loose and unsaved changes to your kit. Other than that, I find the saving/loading/etc of kits to be quite nice. It's not all that different from say, an MPC, and a really nice feature is the load/save list shows a little "tick" mark next to the name of each kit that is used in a pattern, so you know if you overwrite that kit with something, that there are patterns using that kit that will sound different. The MPC never had that and it's a very nice little feature.

Overall, if you don't like it, you don't like it. But, there are a lot of small details that easily be overlooked even with lots of time spent with the MD. The elektron-users.com forums are a really great resource for tips/tricks/shortcuts. I picked up a lot of stuff from there.
tIB
felix wrote:
The elektron-users.com forums are a really great resource for tips/tricks/shortcuts. I picked up a lot of stuff from there.


thumbs up

The MD (and elektrons in general for that matter) arent for everyone; ive embraced that way of working and I find it hard working with other machines now for that reason.

In terms of freeing up my hands for tweaking other things (and the MD) I tend to work all my patterns in song mode, preprogramming mutes, solos and everything else. It can be a bit of a PITA but I think it is worth it, its also pretty quick to work through to do the simple things in... and you can switch in and out of it as you please on the fly.

As for the screen/viewing angle I got custom stands to tilt.
rydan
Different beasts, i m h o. Get both! ;o)
axm311
maschine educational version is less than 1/3 the price of machinedrum. no retailer really checks if you're actually a student, but the downside is you can't resell it

I own maschine, I like it a lot, but you do have to have a computer with it of course. ive only used the non UW machinedrum so I can't comment on the sampling ability but maschine you have nearly infinite amount of samples and near infinite "parameter locks", it's actually quite powerful

the hardware navigation on maschine is a bit faster than the machinedrum imo, with the added bonus that for more cumbersome tasks, such as sample naming you can just grab the mouse and keyboard. you can pretty much fully operate it with the monitor switched off if you like

it is also a snap to sequnce polyphonically on maschine, where as i dont know how hard that would be on MD (I've only used one in a friend's studio and am no power user)
newgreyarea
We have both here and now I think I want an MPC instead. Sample everything in to it and use it to sequence itself and external gear.

I don't fully understand the MD, but I love it as a sound design tool.
MD is awesome and really easy to use but I am really trying to get away from the computer.

-b
felix
Haha, well now just shy of a full year since my original post in this thread and I have replaced my MD with a Maschine.

There are still several things I miss about the MD, mainly the synthesis approach, but I haven't really regretted the change.
prscrptn
intellijel wrote:
Machinedrum SPS-1UW - no sample names


This feature has been added in the new operating system...
Bricks
Quote:
Haha, well now just shy of a full year since my original post in this thread and I have replaced my MD with a Maschine.

Oh man - you sold your MD? Aren't you the one that started that 15 page long <3 machinedrum thread?

Actually I think that is awesome, because last night I decided I'm most likely going to sell mine and build what I like about it in the modular.. which made me feel sort of like a heretic given how much people live and die by the thing.

I understand how/why it is great. And I love the RAM machines, but I sure hate menus.

I've never used it as a drum machine, just the world's most epic glitch console.

The only way I might keep it is if I can get a really really clever integration with my modular going, which I admittedly never spent the time setting up.. but even then I'm sort of longing for a consolidate instrument.
prscrptn
hmmm..... Have you tried using the Machinedrum with a Kenton Pro-2000???
Bricks
I only have a pro solo..

I dunno. Maybe if I made a breakout panel right in my synth, and had the MD rackmounted... but.. I dunno that it'd get me to where I want to be.

Lately, more than ever, I am LOVING the modular. Instant physical patching is so satisfying and fun. Tweaking around with menus and settings and juggling software states is less so.

Might just be a phase. Doesnt look like the MD is going to become a rare commodity anytime soon though, so, might not hurt to let it go considering it sits mostly unused.

I feel like it really is a beautiful device though, and should be off somewhere making sounds for someone.
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