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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

Power Interface
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  
Author Power Interface
zeta
Well, here I am. Point of no return. But, w/out a decent power distribution the "whole" is limited.
Until, some days ago I haven't had any issues on power, but after installing +-4 new modules, it seems I reached the p-supply limit.
Now my question is, what to do & how? help
- bigger p-supply?
- a 2nd p-supply?
- a Q103+int. cabinet DC p-cables + DC-p harness?
- is there an European solution?
seriously, i just don't get it

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and/or hint.
unwar
after finishing a 66 space cab i too hit that point. i caved and bought a second Q137, QPS3 and large power harness. now i have to build a second 66er...dang.
so my advice is...yea why not.
EATyourGUITAR
EDIT: I just noticed synthesizers.com has these same units but with harnesses already attached

get one big massive power supply. don't be scared that you might need to do a little work getting it setup.

1.5A power one
HBB15-1.5-AG

3A power one
HCC15-3-AG
sduck
Check out the Hinton Fullpower psu - http://hinton-instruments.co.uk/paprod/psu/ - I think they're based in the UK. Mr. Hinton is a member here.
zeta
ok, just to report back...
first thanks for the hints.
at the end i went with EATyourGUITARs suggestion and now i've got this working horse in front of me.



now it comes to the point of wiring it up.
my thinking is, to copy the wiring of my old A 1,5....



..the way it's shown on this photo
http://www.synthesizers.com/qps1adj.jpg

it seems obvious that my new working horse doesn't have that +/-5v pcb. the old one as well, but there is a little pcb attached to the old psu which regulates the current somehow as bwhittington already investigated
seasons ago. ( https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55978&highlight= )

any pros &/or cons on proceeding in that manner?
ahh..before posting, why is the wiring on the old psu from that "block"-via pcb-to the connector and on the "tutor" picture directly from that "block" to the connector?
JohnLRice
Hi,

First off, I wouldn't have purchased the Power-One model you just got since it doesn't have it's own +5 output. waah (you can easily spot triple output Power-One supplies as they'll have three big silver regulator transistors on the top/outside of the case instead of two like the one you got) It's doable but, it will be more of a hassle to get it setup. If this is going to be a replacement for your old supply you can just steal the little +5V volt regulator board off your old supply though. thumbs up

Secondly, if you are going to wire this up to work with Synthesizers.com power interface modules make sure to remove the jumpers between the power transformer input pins.

The screw terminal block on your original is just a convenient non-solder way to connect the inputs and outputs. With your new supply you'll need to solder all the wiring to the correct points. Below is a picture of a Synthesizers.com supply with soldered connections (ignore my annotation in red to cut off the connector, that was for someone else in another thread ;-)

EATyourGUITAR
all the information about your mains transformer and fuse size is written here


make sure this is done correctly. read it twice before you wire it up. don't forget to put a fuse in series with one of your high voltage mains wires.
EATyourGUITAR


this is your mains earth. this is very important for safety. the exact location is not important but it must be connected to the metal part of the power-one.
zeta
hey, thanks for the help so far!!
seems that this q&a somehow drifted in the diy section, apology for that.
maybe it could be moved over to diy.?!

john, on your picture the -out, -s, +s, com, etc. points are all daisy chained, on this picture,
http://www.synthesizers.com/qps1adj.jpg , it looks like the points are just connected in pairs. seriously, i just don't get it


JohnLRice wrote:

Secondly, if you are going to wire this up to work with Synthesizers.com power interface modules make sure to remove the jumpers between the power transformer input pins.
/198_dotcompowerone_1.jpg[/img]


yes that's my intention, so aemm you mean CR10 & CR11 .. metaphorically asking.. the two black/grey ferrite beads? mehzombie

EATyourGUITAR wrote:

make sure this is done correctly. read it twice before you wire it up. don't forget to put a fuse in series with one of your high voltage mains wires.

i understand the chart like, it should work the way as it is "still" connected to the old one.
jumper 2&3, ac 1&4 for 230/240 even though i could try 1&5 for 220 but the old one worked fine on 1&4. Picture file


is there more "hassle" i haven't considered?
JohnLRice
zeta wrote:
john, on your picture the -out, -s, +s, com, etc. points are all daisy chained, on this picture,
http://www.synthesizers.com/qps1adj.jpg , it looks like the points are just connected in pairs. seriously, i just don't get it

See picture below for connections. s stands for "sense" and those points are used to sense variation of output voltage and automatically adjust the output to compensate.


zeta wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:

Secondly, if you are going to wire this up to work with Synthesizers.com power interface modules make sure to remove the jumpers between the power transformer input pins.
/198_dotcompowerone_1.jpg[/img]


yes that's my intention, so aemm you mean CR10 & CR11 .. metaphorically asking.. the two black/grey ferrite beads? mehzombie
No, the jumpers between the power transformer input pins. See the white arrows pointing to them in the picture. Different input pins and jumper combinations are used depending on the AC voltage you are using. The combinations are shown on the front of your supply but you don't want to use them if you are using the Synthesizers.com power inlet module because there is switching built into it.

zeta
Dead Banana
ok, i've cutted of the jumpers and i chained the points up as above, it worked, for 5min., i went in the kitchen to tell my girl went back, off. no light no nothing and Q2 is hot. i assume i wired something wrong with the 1 3 2 4 block inputs?
it seems i'm traced by psu issues.
actually i felt sure about it, well...wasn't.

btw. the black wire to the 5v-b regulator board, i attached to -S, is that right?
JohnLRice
zeta wrote:
Dead Banana
ok, i've cutted of the jumpers and i chained the points up as above, it worked, for 5min., i went in the kitchen to tell my girl went back, off. no light no nothing and Q2 is hot. i assume i wired something wrong with the 1 3 2 4 block inputs?
it seems i'm traced by psu issues.
actually i felt sure about it, well...wasn't.

btw. the black wire to the 5v-b regulator board, i attached to -S, is that right?


sad banana I'm sorry you are having problems.

This is a good example of why it's often a bad idea to give power supply advice on a forum: I'll assume I've explained things clearly enough and assume if you don't fully understand, not only the instructions but also what is actually happening electrically/electronically, at least at a basic level, that you will ask questions until you do and THEN proceed. My poor assumtions, possibly combined with yours, could equal some serious trouble! MY ASS IS BLEEDING zombie Dead Banana

I don't want to make you feel bad but, I do want you to be a little afraid of what you are doing so that you will verify all connections multiple times and second guess yourself a bit, especially when making guesses as to what to do. If you are in the least bit unsure of something, ask someone who knows what they are doing, or at least post it here on the forum! Mr. Green There is the very real potential for property damage, serious and often permanent damage to the living and the most permanent of damages, death.

So, I don't have the same Power-One supplies you have or the special little +5V regulator board so I can only make a guess but I'll say you should not have connected the +5v regulator board's negative wire to the -S terminal! By doing so you were feeding the +5V regulator board +30v when it probably isn't designed to handle more than +18v. You should have connected the negative wire from the +5V regulator board to the COM (common) terminal on the Power-One.
EATyourGUITAR
there are two places on the power one marked with -S. that information does not tell us anything.

also, any S terminals are for sensing voltage droop. they may or may not be connected. that is not going to stop your power supply from working.

check with the manufacturer of your 5v board to confirm the proper power requirement on the input side. most likely it will be +15v and 0v but do not listen to me. ask the manufacturer. if you are not sure, do not connect the 5v board right now. you can do it later.

the mains wiring to the transformer and any jumpers and fuses that go with it should be done as it is written on the power one chassis in this picture. there is one correct way to do this.



do NOT use the jumper settings by the white arrows in the picture JLR posted. he only wanted to show you an example of what a jumper looks like. read the power one you have in your hands to decide what will work for you.

on the topic of Q2 getting hot, I think you reversed the polarity to your 5V board with 15v applied in the wrong direction to either the input or the output. this would explain why you are drawing so much current on Q2. leave the 5v board out for now. after you get your +15, 0v, -15v rails working and calibrated, you can attempt to attach the 5v board to see if it is damaged or not.

remember to do all wiring with the power off.
do not walk away from a power supply that could start a fire. the next time you walk away, you could have a fire in the other room.
zeta
first off, i'm still alive! It's motherfucking bacon yo
but, you're definitely right, my enthusiasm assailed me and most probably i overrated my electronical understanding here.

no false shame john, that goes clearly on me. your explanation is fine, this applies as well to you EATyourGuitar i just have had to ask again.

let me try to clearly explain what i have done, first i cut away both jumpers. then i marked the input cables on my old psu as they're attached to the "power transformer", 1 2 3 4 & main earth. Then i screwed them off and reattached them in that manner to the new psu. WRONG.!? yesterday i thought, "logic" even with the 230/240v chart. d'oh!
jumpers. i have had to put one between 2&3, am i right? i mean it's written there! just read! hmmm.....


i have done the same with the other cables and soldered them as followed,
* green to OUT-
* black to COM
* 5v black to S- (near COM)
and both white to S+ (one feeds the 5v adapter board)

the result is known.

well, only thing i've tried so far, was the S- to COM change and .. the 5v board disconnected, resulted in a life sign via the led light bar on the q137. both, +/-15v led go on. though, switching it off results in a fade out. Q2 seemed to be fresh, no heat sign.

btw. the 5v board was already instaled to the psu i've purchased years ago from .com.
NYMo
Fwiw...hell of a lot easier to just get one from Roger.
I just got one from him...and I live all the way in Australia !

Cheers
EATyourGUITAR
NYMo wrote:
Fwiw...hell of a lot easier to just get one from Roger.
I just got one from him...and I live all the way in Australia !

Cheers


if you do not have a $10 meter and 15 minutes to plug in a power supply you can pay him $100 to connect a few wires. I have no problem with his price. the price is fair. but that is for people who do not want to spend the $10 and 15 minutes to be self sufficient.

--------------------------------------

@ zeta

you said that your country has 220v is that right? I would suggest you use the correct connection for 220V. going from the chart you posted, use terminal 5 on the transformer. terminal 4 should have no wires or jumpers connected.



the pink wires are optional, you do not need them. if you connected them that is not a problem. you can leave them connected.

you should disconnect the 5v PCB until you calibrate your power supply to +/-15v.



it is a good idea to calibrate your power supply with a load connected. i used 2k resistors but you can do it with one module plugged in. now we turn the power on. for these tests, set your multimeter to Volts DC. connect the leads of your multi meter to OUT+ and COM to test the +15v rail. I used alligator clips to keep my hands free. with only one hand reaching in to the case, I turned the trimmer with a small screw driver. if you get no change on the multimeter, you are adjusting the wrong trimmer. try to adjust the other trimmer. eventually you will have your trimmer adjusted to +15v DC. if you meter reads -15v DC you are still good. that just means you have the black and the red meter probes reversed. we dont need to know if it is + or -, we just need to know that it is tuned to 15v DC.

next you can do this again with the meter probes connected to -OUT and COM. adjust the other trimmer this time. you should get -15v DC.

now with the power off, you can connect the 5v PCB to +OUT and COM where the 5v PCB is labeled V+ INPUT, GND. this is only a guess. it is rare, but some 5v PCB's use -OUT and COM. on the 5v PCB it should be marked with something like

+15v, 0v
or
V+, GND
or
+, -

these all mean the same thing mostly. the +5v out is just that. DO NOT CONNECT THE +5V OUT on the 5v PCB TO THE HCC15-3-4.
zeta
constant flow, now.ohhyeay
trimmers the key.
thanks a lot!
thumbs up
JohnLRice
zeta wrote:
constant flow, now.ohhyeay
trimmers the key.
thanks a lot!
thumbs up

You got it all working correctly? Sweet! w00t
edgar67
NYMo wrote:
Fwiw...hell of a lot easier to just get one from Roger.
I just got one from him...and I live all the way in Australia !

Cheers


NYMo, I like your music! Very nice!!

Now for my question, Who is Roger?

Thanks!
defutura
edgar67 wrote:
Now for my question, Who is Roger?


That would be Mr. Roger Arrick of Tyler, TX.
cornutt
You can buy a single output +5 supply and use it with the Power One that you have. I have some cabinets that are set up this way. I've actually used switcher supplies for the +5.
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