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WIGGLING 'LITE' IN GUEST MODE

VDO versus VCO : Any Comparison Opinions?
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> 5U Format Modules  

ARE VDO's INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM VCO's?
NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HEARING A VDO or VCO
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
YES, VCO's CLEARLY SOUND DIFFERENT TO VDO's
100%
 100%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 8

Author VDO versus VCO : Any Comparison Opinions?
galaxiesmerge
I was wondering if anyone can let me know whether it is better to go with an all out set of VDO modules (Modcan) or VCO modules (Modcan).

Does anyone have an opinion on comparison or is the answer to get both kinds? Can we do without analog VCO's in a modular? Is there any difference in the perceptual sound quality difference between them? Is the range of either equally usable at high and low end frequency ranges? Does anyone or has anyone perceived any difference (like that's an "analog" sound versus that's definitely "digital" sounding)?

Any opinions are welcome and would help on some issues I am working through!

Thanks!
parasitk
Honestly, they do different things. Yes they sound different. The VCDO is aimed at FM. The DVDO seems aimed at more wavetable morphing and sequencing. Neither is a replacement for an analog VCO – and vice versa!

I would want both, but I like these digital techniques as well as solid analog sounds. thumbs up
thermionicjunky
Generally, the digital oscillators have 10kHz limits and the complex waveforms will feature a bit of aliasing at the top. The real advantages of the digital oscillators are the extended features that are not available from analog oscillators. When using standard waveforms in low and medium range, the primary differences are in tracking and stability, which are strong suits of Modcan analog oscillators anyway. The digital oscillators respond very smoothly to CV. You are safe to purchase based on desired functionality alone. Do you want extra waveforms, built-in FM, wave sequencing, waveform interpolation? Or do you need simultaneous sine, triangle, saw and pulse outs, and extreme high range? Personally, I use a combination of digital Modcan (and soon MOTM) with tube Metasonix. Anyway, digital and analog are great together.
sandyb
i agree with the points made by both of the above posters. and given the size of the system you're planning on buying (eek! if i read correctly in another thread) i think you should have a bit of a mixture of both, even if it's only one or two of the digital vcos that Bruce produces. if you find you really don't like the digital they'll sell easily.
i currently don't have any analogue oscillators in my modcan system, just a vcdo and dvdo. i do have analogue oscillators in my euro system and a metasonix tm-3. i like having the combination of both but have used just the digital oscillators on their own plenty of times.

sandy
Scooter McCrae
I have the Modcan 01 Analog Oscillator, 62B Dual VDO and 58B VCDO modules in my system and all three of them are great -- with decidedly different sounds, of course.

I'm sure the tracking is great as everyone here states, but for the stuff I do I've never really noticed. The 58B is capable of some hair-raisingly nasty and weird sounds, the 62B is rich with beautiful harmonics (to my ear, if I'm using the term correctly) and the 01 is a reliably clean, meat-and-potatoes standard - almost too clean for me as it's the one of these three that I use the least when I'm patching (no insult to the module intended, of course).

You can't go wrong with any of these and I LOVE being able to combine these disparate sounds when I'm patching. I'd like to order a few more things from Bruce before the year is out if I can get my funds together, and high on my want list is another 58B VCDO. Nothing else sounds quite like it.

I've never heard any extensive sounds from the 22B Miniwave, but someone on another thread was giving it a lot of love recently and now I'm kinda thinking about it as well. Just one more thing to add some confusion to your decision-making process.

thermionicjunky, perhaps our ears were separated at birth as I also love to send these digital oscillators through the Metasonix tubes. Some of the most jaw-dropping sounds I've ever encountered -- so beautiful, so dangerous....!

Here's a link to an all-Modcan patch that shows some of the audio metamorphosis that the 62B Dual VDO is capable of:

http://soundcloud.com/scootermccrae/modcan-dual-vcdo-fun

I can't say enough great things about Bruce and the Modcan equipment I've gotten from him. I may be paying for this stuff for the rest of my life, but I will never regret it for all the days of pleasure it has given -- and continues to give -- me. You've chosen a fantastic manufacturer.

Scooter McCrae
thermionicjunky
Scooter McCrae wrote:

thermionicjunky, perhaps our ears were separated at birth as I also love to send these digital oscillators through the Metasonix tubes. Some of the most jaw-dropping sounds I've ever encountered -- so beautiful, so dangerous....!

Here's a link to an all-Modcan patch that shows some of the audio metamorphosis that the 62B Dual VDO is capable of:

Scooter McCrae


Very cool sounds. I think the Dual VDO was made for phase shifting. Apparently, the Dual VDO lifts a bunch of Miniwave waveforms, but increases the bit depth. But you like to double up anyway, so perhaps you would want add the Miniwave's ability to process external signals with these shapes.

And yes, there is something about combining Metasonix and Modcan. The Modcan CV modules are great for controlling Metasonix, and they are great for processing each other's signals. High-pitched complex waves from the VCDO into Metasonix waveshapers are beautifully scary and very subtle filtering of the VCDO with the Metasonix multimode filter is just beautiful.
BananaPlug
I don't have much to add to what's been said already. The aliasing on the top end of the digital oscillators is minimal so it's fair to say they can pass for analog.
Quote:
Apparently, the Dual VDO lifts a bunch of Miniwave waveforms, but increases the bit depth.

I have a Blacet mini-wave but 8 bit samples are sometimes too crunchy for me. I usually have some processing downstream of it or use it to FM another oscillator. Anyway the DVDO is clean enough to use naked. Well, the more complex waves are pretty harsh unfiltered. They just have a whole lot going on and will get you interested in filters again! Navigating through all those waves on the DVDO is a bit tricky without a readout but it gets easier over time.
Quote:
...is the answer to get both kinds?

The answer is always to get both kinds.
hihi
I already had a good set of analog oscillators so I've only bought the digital ones and the 03A quad LFO from Modcan. Between the VCDO and the DVDO lots of new territory to explore.
dude
must have both analog and digital. as stated above
krv
Scooter McCrae wrote:
I have the Modcan 01 Analog Oscillator, 62B Dual VDO and 58B VCDO modules in my system and all three of them are great -- with decidedly different sounds, of course.

I'm sure the tracking is great as everyone here states, but for the stuff I do I've never really noticed. The 58B is capable of some hair-raisingly nasty and weird sounds, the 62B is rich with beautiful harmonics (to my ear, if I'm using the term correctly) and the 01 is a reliably clean, meat-and-potatoes standard - almost too clean for me as it's the one of these three that I use the least when I'm patching (no insult to the module intended, of course).

You can't go wrong with any of these and I LOVE being able to combine these disparate sounds when I'm patching. I'd like to order a few more things from Bruce before the year is out if I can get my funds together, and high on my want list is another 58B VCDO. Nothing else sounds quite like it.

I've never heard any extensive sounds from the 22B Miniwave, but someone on another thread was giving it a lot of love recently and now I'm kinda thinking about it as well. Just one more thing to add some confusion to your decision-making process.

thermionicjunky, perhaps our ears were separated at birth as I also love to send these digital oscillators through the Metasonix tubes. Some of the most jaw-dropping sounds I've ever encountered -- so beautiful, so dangerous....!

Here's a link to an all-Modcan patch that shows some of the audio metamorphosis that the 62B Dual VDO is capable of:

http://soundcloud.com/scootermccrae/modcan-dual-vcdo-fun

I can't say enough great things about Bruce and the Modcan equipment I've gotten from him. I may be paying for this stuff for the rest of my life, but I will never regret it for all the days of pleasure it has given -- and continues to give -- me. You've chosen a fantastic manufacturer.

Scooter McCrae


thanks a lot for your music link.... it's such an inspiration....it seems like the modcan dual vdo is the oscillator I've ever dreamed about...
too bad it's out of reach (too expensive) outside usa....
Scaff
Here are my tunes with 2 VCDOs and the 05B Dual-LFO. Nothing else is in use.....

VCDO
Roycie Roller
krv wrote:
.it seems like the modcan dual vdo is the oscillator I've ever dreamed about...
too bad it's out of reach (too expensive) outside usa....


Have a look at the upcoming MOTM Morphing Terrarium- to me it sounds similar to the DVDO. I'm not sure if they are closely related, but they are both designed by Eric Brombaugh. He does some amazing digital stuff.

edit- corrected spelling mistakes
krv
Roycie Roller wrote:
krv wrote:
.it seems like the modcan dual vdo is the oscillator I've ever dreamed about...
too bad it's out of reach (too expensive) outside usa....


Have a look at the upcoming MOTM Morphing Terramium- to me it sounds similar to the DVDO. I'm not sure if they are closely related, but they are both designed by Eric Bromaugh. He does some amazing digital stuff.


I will!
I took a deep listen to the first demo come out and I feel exactly the same, digital but clean ( when you want) and really interesting module, I really can't wait for more demo to come out
galaxiesmerge
sandyb wrote:
i agree with the points made by both of the above posters. and given the size of the system you're planning on buying (eek! if i read correctly in another thread) i think you should have a bit of a mixture of both, even if it's only one or two of the digital vcos that Bruce produces. if you find you really don't like the digital they'll sell easily.
i currently don't have any analogue oscillators in my modcan system, just a vcdo and dvdo. i do have analogue oscillators in my euro system and a metasonix tm-3. i like having the combination of both but have used just the digital oscillators on their own plenty of times.

sandy


Yep! I'm going for a reasonable sized system. I was reconsidering the VDO issue but have heard some tracks (thanks to Scooter and others for posting!) I must say that a combination seems best. Well, I'm off to the bank to send my wire over to Bruce and start the process ... likely it will take a few months to get all these modules built but I promise to post pictures and sound. I will be using the Continuum Fingerboard to play the Modcan so we'll see how it works with that unit.

If anyone is interested, I have an old analog CS80 video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guzvcHNwJOI and also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIPh96WkcSA

I'm looking forward to patching this into and trying this out with the Modcan smile

Cheers!
NV
galaxiesmerge wrote:
I was reconsidering the VDO issue but have heard some tracks (thanks to Scooter and others for posting!) I must say that a combination seems best.


I think this is the best approach. ModCan's VCO, VDO, and VCDO are all extremely capable independently, but I would definitely prefer a system with one of each over several of one. It's pretty rare to find a set of oscillators that all sound dramatically different from one another and I would say that ModCan's offerings fall into that category.

Bruce is one of the good guys in the modular synth arena. I'm sure you will be very pleased with the service you receive from him.
doctorvague
I've had both and I think the VCDO blows the Miniwave out of the water. The Miniwave always sounded cheap to my ears (I had the Blacet version). I just could never feel the love there. I know people will disagree - oh well. I sold my Miniwave but would love to have another VCDO, but I wouldn't want a system with only VCDO's.
Analog oscillators + VCDO = love

Keep in mind the VCDO is actually 2 oscillators - it's just that the modulator is kind of hidden from view, so in that sense it's way more than 'just a digital version of an oscillator'.
thermionicjunky
Another thing to consider is that the digital and analog oscillators can modulate each other. This way you can combine the effects of phase-locked ratio-based FM(VCDO) and and FM based on arbitrary frequency relationships. The VCDO also provides digital noise with variable interpolation.
rrooyyccee
the sound of the analogue vco sync'd by the vdco is pretty interesting and good. especially the sine wave and when velocity is patched to fm index.

they sound very different. even the modcan vco sounds very warm and organic next to the vdco. . . and then even the dual digital osc. stands out. not really fm sounding at all, even when modulated.
rezzn8r
Is the internal oscillator that drives the Modcan version of the Miniwave analogue or digital?
thermionicjunky
rezzn8r wrote:
Is the internal oscillator that drives the Modcan version of the Miniwave analogue or digital?


Analog. It's the same core as the VCO.
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