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The Jellyfish. Dual Delay / Vibrato
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next [all]
Author The Jellyfish. Dual Delay / Vibrato
plankton
EDITED: All the necessary docs are at he end of the 4th page!

Edited: All the info is at www.planktonelectronics.com also.

Hi!!!

I'm moving the post here from electro music forums. Ben (Paradigm X in EM forum) has suggested to move here. And here I am. This is fun!

*** Here is the old threat (EM) if you want to take a look: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-55816.html&postorder=asc ***

Some months ago I start to design a delay unit based in a PT2399 IC. After all the time, trial, PCBs prototyping, test, recommendations from other users, and several thousands of tea litres I finalized the Jellyfish. The idea is to do a DIY project capable of a fast and easy mounting. All the components are on the PCB. Very little wiring is needed, only for the connectors.

The Jellyfish is a delay machine, with 2 delay lines, 2 LFOs with triangle and square waves, xdelay, infinite switch, 2 outs, parallel and pseudo-stero modes (1in - 2 outs), dry and wet controls and CV in. It is capable of a wide variety of sounds.

I will post the Diagram and the schematic below.

Here are the specifications:


SPECS:

Front Panel Controls:

VELO: Frequency of the LFO. It can go from 0,33 to 3,12 Hz and modulates the time parameter of the delay.

DEPTH: Quantity of modulation applied to the time parameter. It goes from 0 or no modulation to full wave modulation. It controls the LFOor the CV in.

WAVE: This switch changes between square or triangle waves of the LFO. These are not exact square and triangle waves. It have some imperfections giving its own character to the machine. Square and triangle waves have different amplitudes also.

TIME: The main function of the delay. It controls the delay time and varies from 27 to 570msg. With this times the PT2399 are going through its capabilities. So on longer times you will notice some noise and distortion of the sound.

FINE: This pot also controls the delay time but only a 10% of the main pot do. It is very useful when you want to be very precise or when using the two delay lines at once, providing nice surf stereo expanding sound.

FEEDBACK: It sends the output of the delay again to its input causing repetition. It varies from 0 (one delay) to infinite. To more repetitions, more distortion and filtering are added to the sound.

INFINTE: When this switch is activated and the feedback pot set at its maximum position the repetion never stops. This makes that the level increases at every step. Apply some modulation here and you will find the extreme character of the beast!

DRY & WET: Mix input and effect signals to the output. Note that this pots are not are the same level when clockwise. The effect level amplifies the signal while the DRY have a gain of 1. If you want a gain of 1 on the effect turn the pot at 3 o’clock.

XDELAY: When activated this switch sends the output of the delay line 1 to the input of the delay line 2 and viceversa. This tool is used for create interesting double delay lines. It’s necessary to turn on the feedback pot of the secundary delay line to activate this feature. The feedback pot acts as a level of the 2nd delay.

PARALLEL: When it’s off this switch sends the delay line 1 to out 1 and the delay line 2 to out 2. When it’s on sends the 2 delay lines to the output 1.

BYPASS: Turns on and off the effect. When off the input goes directly to outs 1 and 2 through a buffer.

Rear Panel Controls:

CV INPUTS: this inputs modulates the time parameter of the delay. When plugged it deactivates the LFO. It accept positive signals from 0 to 40 V (!). Usually you will not reach 10V and the signal passes through the Depth pot. With fully opened depth pot a signal of 5 V turns the delay time to something non-linear, so if using 10V just use the depth knob to turn down the signal.

OUT 1: Output signal of the delay line 1.

OUT2: Output signal of the delay line 2.

IN: Input signal. It accepts line, synth and instrument levels.

DC 9V: Accepts 9V DC center negative. The machines consumes 60mA, use a power supply with 100-200mA.

General Specs:

CASE: Aluminum black painted.

DIMENSIONS: 188x120x33 mm

WEIGHT: 687 gr.

*********************************************************

The idea of this project (and more that will come under the name of Plankton Electronics) is to make something open. All the schematics and all the information will be free and under a license of creative commons. If you want to build a Jellyfish you have not to buy anything. But if you want you can buy the PCB, the case and or the kit.

I'm mounting the web site but all the process is harder than I thought. For the moment I will sell this via the forum if there is anyone interested. I hope next week I can open the website!


Prices:

PCBs: 20€
Cases: 60€ (drilled an silkscreened, ready to mount)
Kits (PCB & components, no case): 120€

All the prices are without the shipping.

I will also post the BOM, the drilling template if you want to do the case yourself and the building instructions. And if I forget something please ask it and I will post it!

Here are the demos of course!!! Rockin' Banana!


https://soundcloud.com/plankton-electronics/sets/the-jellyfish

Anyone's in?
plankton
Pics and docs
plankton
I'm writing the building manual. Soon...
Peake
Great! The PT has an acceptable audio character. Modular people are going to ask you the dimensions of the PCB (which formats will be able to mount it behind a panel) and how to mod it for external CV to delay time...welcome to Muff's, thanks for the project!

I see in your EM thread that you will make etch artwork available..thanks! thumbs up
msprigings
can it be power from +15/-15?
Cheradenine
Interesting ! As a delay freak, you can count me in w00t

Is there a way to simply mod the thing to get longer delay than 570ms ?
Don't care about the noise, in fact IMO that's a feature of the PT2399 hihi
Peake
"XDELAY: When activated this switch sends the output of the delay line 1 to the input of the delay line 2 and viceversa. This tool is used for create interesting double delay lines. It’s necessary to turn on the feedback pot of the secundary delay line to activate this feature. The feedback pot acts as a level of the 2nd delay."

It should be possible to do an easy mod to this so that delay 2 only feeds the output, so delay 1 -> delay 2 -> output so together that's a bit over a second...

PS: The demos sound good! 8_)
hexinverter
Welcome to Muff's, Plankton!

Nice project! Well done smile The demos sound great. nanners nanners nanners
falafelbiels
Oooooo nice!
raisinbag
That's really cool! I am planning on building a few delays for guitar and synth using 2399 and was planning on 2 Magnus modulus but this looks cool so hard to deny.

When you say "IN: Input signal. It accepts line, synth and instrument levels" does that mean I can interchange between my guitar and synth with no modifications? If so that's sick!

I have some tap tempo chips from tone god that I may want to implement, I'll have to go and look at this in more detail. Looks really cool!

Welcome to Muffs.
jaidee
I can see that the PCB has been designed for illuminated shaft pots, and indeed the picture of the stuffed PCB has clear shaft pots - but no pictures of the glowing pots??

I'll be in for a PCB as soon as you post ordering and payment details.
plankton
Quote:
Modular people are going to ask you the dimensions of the PCB (which formats will be able to mount it behind a panel)


The PCB is 167 x 104mm. Maybe its posible to adapt this to a modular front panel. Which are the most used formats?

Quote:
how to mod it for external CV to delay time


The Jellyfish have CV inputs for time control. It only accepts positive signals. The Depth pot controls the amount of signal applied.

Quote:
can it be power from +15/-15?


I have to test it. You need to tweak.

For the buffers it seems that will not be a major problem. Just removing R42, R43 and C43, changing the VB point for ground and powering the op-amp with the +15/-15 it should work.

The CD4016 accepts a power limit of +18V but then the problem will be that the amplitude of the LFO waves will be from 0 to +15V. This means that a voltage divider must be before the Depth pot.

The led resistor must be changed to the right value (in the schematic R30 and R45 are 1K but I actually using 20k for the blue leds). But this is not a big problem.

BC547 hav the 9V at the collector. I don't know what happens if you change tat for 15V. I need to look closer here.

78l05 accepts +35V. So the power for the PT will be ok.

Maybe the major problem here is the input signal amplitude for the PT. I have notice some distortion to the chips with 0 peak sounds from the sound card, so a +15/-15V audio signal maybe will not fit here. Once again I have to look deeper here. A posible solution is to reduce the amplified signal of the op-amps. This is easy it work as inverter configuration. Changing R33 and R34 relation will change the op-amp gain.

So, recap: The Jellyfish actually works with 9V. If you want to use +/- 15V you need to mod.

Maybe I will do the +15/-15 option for V2 PCBs, but for the moment is better to use 9v.

Quote:
Interesting ! As a delay freak, you can count me in

Is there a way to simply mod the thing to get longer delay than 570ms ?
Don't care about the noise, in fact IMO that's a feature of the PT2399


Great!

If you use the CV input you can push the delay time longer than that as the FET works as a variable resistor. But with 5V I have noticed very strange behavior w00t

Quote:
It should be possible to do an easy mod to this so that delay 2 only feeds the output, so delay 1 -> delay 2 -> output so together that's a bit over a second...


Yes, you will need to add a switch that cut the input signal on the 2nd delay. Then the signal will go from input --> delay1 --> delay 2--> output 1 or 2 (depending on the parallel switch).

I post an attachment showing it..

Quote:
PS: The demos sound good!


Quote:
Welcome to Muff's, Plankton!

Nice project! Well done The demos sound great.


Quote:
Oooooo nice!



nanners Thank you!


Quote:
does that mean I can interchange between my guitar and synth with no modifications? If so that's sick!


Yes. You can plug the guitar, the synth or a line level signal. If you want to use a guitar just plug the guitar to the input and the outputs the a preamp. It sounds nice.

The only problem that I have noticed is some distortion when sending 0db signals from the soundcard (a motu 24I/O). So if you are using loud signals just turn down a little bit. That's the only compromise!


Quote:
I can see that the PCB has been designed for illuminated shaft pots, and indeed the picture of the stuffed PCB has clear shaft pots - but no pictures of the glowing pots??


No, the PCB hasn't been designed for illuminated shaft pots. It actually needs RV141F pots from Alpha. At the begging I designed it to accepts the small alpha pots but the touch was like a toy. This pots are atronger.

Quote:
I'll be in for a PCB as soon as you post ordering and payment details.


Great! Next week I will post it!
Cheradenine
Well, looking at the datasheet of the PT2399 and your schematic, could I just change the time pots P3 and P10 with 100k instead of 50k for attaining longer delay ? Of course the PT2399 won't necessary like it and it'll sound really weird/distorted, but that won't kill it (I guess Mr. Green )
emdot_ambient
Sounds lovely. But I'd only go for one if it could be mounted behind a 5U panel without using PCB mounted hardware. That means I'd need mounting holes on the PCB. I don't mind doing the massive wiring and not using PCB mounted HW gives me greater control over panel design and HW component selection...And I'll be using 15V PSU.
cleaninglady
welcome ! i am definitely interested. SlayerBadger!
Peake
Here are the form factors for modular synthesizers; perhaps it may fit behind a 2U Moog/Mu format panel!

http://synthesizers.com/formfactors.html
wavehead
if you can make a PCB to fit in euro then it will generally fit in all other modular formats as well. being compatible with euro doesn't necessarily mean it has to be significantly smaller by any means - what may be a wider panel than usual in euro could fit perfectly in 4U/5U.

time CV - is this a max of +5V depth? because it's positive only it would be helpful to have some scaling/rectification regardless (just like the signal input/output will need).

it sounds nice... hope a "modular friendly" PCB materializes soon.
Paradigm X
See, im all for standalone boxes, rather than modular things, easier to cart off the gigs/practises, psu is a single wallwart etc, and especially the no wiring thing!

But each to their own!

I love delays, got a bugbrand pt delay, which is awesome, so this will be a great complement.

Im up for a full kit as soon as you're ready smile

Cheers, Ben
lazerkind
Very nice implementation of the the PT2399,
And very good demos to show as well. SlayerBadger!

I'm interested in a PCb for sure, maybe a kit as well.
plankton
Quote:
Well, looking at the datasheet of the PT2399 and your schematic, could I just change the time pots P3 and P10 with 100k instead of 50k for attaining longer delay ? Of course the PT2399 won't necessary like it and it'll sound really weird/distorted, but that won't kill it (I guess )


Sure, you can use a 100k there but then you will have less control over the time with the pot. Just try it!

Experimenting with the cv in I have noticed weird behavior with the maximum voltage (wich the fet turns in a major resistance). The time goes inestable and the signal sounds like a velcro stripe. screaming goo yo


Quote:
time CV - is this a max of +5V depth? because it's positive only it would be helpful to have some scaling/rectification regardless (just like the signal input/output will need).


Let me explain better here. The CV and LFO signals goes directly to the gate of a P-channel JFET, a 2N5460. When a voltage is applied to the gate, the resistance between the two other legs, drain and source, varies. When the voltages of the gate and the source are the same (the source is connected to ground, so it's 0) the resistance is fully open. When you apply and increasing voltage to the gate, the resistance increases.

This variable resistor is connected in series with the time pots, so it adds more resistance to the bus that controls the time.

The gate accepts a voltage of 40V, so don't worry if you apply more than 5V, you will be far from destroy anything. When I said that the maximum voltage is 5V it means that when you reach the 5V the resistance is so big that the delay don't works properly.

Anyway the CV signal passes through the depth pot, that acts like a volume, so you can apply a signal of 0 - 10V if you want and apply the desired intensity with the Depth pot.

I will edit that part of the specs.


Quote:
See, im all for standalone boxes, rather than modular things, easier to cart off the gigs/practises, psu is a single wallwart etc, and especially the no wiring thing!

But each to their own!

I love delays, got a bugbrand pt delay, which is awesome, so this will be a great complement.

Im up for a full kit as soon as you're ready

Cheers, Ben


great! this week wil be available as soon as I check all the shipping prices.

By the way, you will need some wiring, for the jacks. Mr. Green



Quote:
Modular? (various users razz )


The idea behind the Jellyfish and Plankton Electronics is to make easy to mount "open-hardware" DIY machines. After the ralease of some desktop machines I will start to make some modular stuff wich are in my head for the moment.

The Jellyfish is the first of this machines and it was not planned to make something modular. The idea is something ready to mount. Paradigm X has expressed it very well. But maybe it's posible to easily adapt to it, almost for the mechanical part.

The euro modules have a height of 128,5mm and the PCBs of the Jellyfish are 167x104mm. I don't know wich is the size available inside a euro case, but it seems that will be enough room to fit the Jellyfish to a Panel as it goes. So there is the possibility to make a modular euro panel using the same drilling template that uses the original case of the Jellyfish. The only thing is the relocation of the connectors, but this not presents a major problem.

About the 15V, as I said, I need to test it and see what happens. Step by step.

*****************************************************************


About the PCBs, kits, selling etc...

As I have said before, this week everything will be available. I need to check the shipping prices. I will use paypal, or bank transfer.

This will works until august. On 30th july I will go to Thailand until 17 september. Then I will stay full time here. The idea was to start months before but I have had many situations that have forced me to stars now. As a mode of testing, I have bought only 50 PCBs and 30 cases, so I think that anyway if I order more PCBs and cases I will not have here until september.

I will try to connect sometimes during the travel to check out that everything is ok.

Meanwhile I'm here and I'm dedicating all my energies to see this realized!

Read you later and thank you for all the welcomes!!! Drinking
Jarno
7 weeks or so in Thailand? Not bad!
Bit of scuba diving?

Wil you still publish the PCB layout for us home-etchers?
plankton
EDITED: Continue reading and you will find all the documentation. Page nº4

Yes, I want to go deep into the jungle. Also in Laos, Cambodya and Vietnam. Maybe I will find some new ideas there. smile

Important:

I post some must have documents below. The BOM, the case drilling template and the PCB layouts for those who want follow the true DIY way. SlayerBadger!

As you can see I share all my work, like others do. I'm not an electronic genius or anything close to that. I like electronics and electronic music and I like to design and make my own machines. I have learned from books, from teachers and from the ideas that many others shared. I strongly believe that sharing is the way which makes the ideas to grow and become something else than ideas.

So:

If you want to do everything or a part yourself don't be shy and go ahead.

But:

1. Don't take profit with this. If you want to buy something please do it to me. Is the only way which I could continue doing this. If you want to propose me any deal send me a private and we can talk about that. I'm opened.

2. If you do any builds, demos, mods, or have any ideas or comments. Please share with us here!

Don't keep it the ideas for yourself or they will rot! Together we are more than the sum of our parts.

Maybe these are obvious principles but I need to speak it clear. One day I will make a song about this Rockin' Banana! d'oh!

********

This afternoon I will post the shipping prices and conditions.

This week I will post the calibration method for the feedback and filter trimmers.

Files below!
mOBiTh
is cv control of feedback possible?
plankton
It's not implemented to the circuit, you need to mod it.

You can not apply the same method of the time CV here as the feedback control is a voltage divider that acts as a volume control and the audio passes through it. Is more complex than that.
mOBiTh
plankton wrote:
It's not implemented to the circuit, you need to mod it.

You can not apply the same method of the time CV here as the feedback control is a voltage divider that acts as a volume control and the audio passes through it. Is more complex than that.


vactrol? hihi
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