reel to reel?

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Joe., luketeaford, lisa, Kent

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

reel to reel?

Post by consumed » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:25 pm

im just getting started looking around at reel to reel machines.

im not looking to multitrack (necessarily), but am definitely interested in a r2r machine that has variable pitch control from the front panel, which i suppose would exclude any belt-driven machines. sound on sound would be cool too. has anyone been down this road? i just need some makes/models to get started researching about. thanks!

User avatar
felix
Loves the manuals!
Posts: 3865
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:05 am
Location: San Jose, CA

Post by felix » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:56 pm

Tascam 34/38. Do it.

Also, if you want to be totally bad ass, get a 388. It's an 8 track 1/4" reel built into an 8 channel tascam mixer.

I wish I have never sold mine.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/225002
https://jimdrones.bandcamp.com

User avatar
Kent
Large Member
Posts: 11990
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Revox C-series

Post by Kent » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:45 pm

I own a Revox C278 which is an 8-track 1/2" machine. It is built entirely of Studer parts and kicks posterior. Be on the look out for the C270, C274 or C278. Unfortunately for you, they are also some of the most expensive units on the used market due to their build quality and Willi Studer heritage.

Also, are you looking for 'dirt' or 'clean w/squishiness' ?

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

Post by consumed » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:44 pm

im probably looking for dirt.

User avatar
Chuck E. Jesus
holier than thou
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: next to Serious Fun!

Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:46 pm

the best tape deck i've used is an Otari 1/4" 2 track (half track, 1 direction)..it had 3 speeds and varispeed, a little patching thru a board made it the best tape echo (with ping pong) money can buy...i have an Ampex deck in storage, need to check it out some day....

thermionicjunky
Thyratron Genius
Posts: 2250
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 6:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by thermionicjunky » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:14 pm

Or for really weird, dirty sound, look for an old Tempophon. It had a rotating 4 head assembly that could perform independent variations in pitch and duration. You could increase the relative speed without altering the transport speed. You could raise pitch without shortening duration. You could increase duration without lowering pitch. You could not shorten duration without pitch shift, or lower pitch without increased duration. In some applications, it was the ancestor of granular synthesis.

User avatar
Cat-A-Tonic
Lobsters love Muff
Posts: 3737
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:03 am
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Reel to Reel

Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:48 pm

Nagra makes some really fine Reels.

Check out Skozey Fetisch.
He uses a reel to reel hands on like a turntable with scratching so forth.
I think he used an Akai... not sure.

User avatar
Chuck E. Jesus
holier than thou
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: next to Serious Fun!

Re: Reel to Reel

Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:09 pm

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:Akai...
i think i still have an old Akai stashed...got it in the early 80's, i used to plug it into a boom box, get some feedback loop going along with the sound on sound, made some "reel" good noise...

i have a lot of shit in storage...

User avatar
J.w.M.
Analog Addict
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 am
Location: LA

Post by J.w.M. » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:38 pm

What's "sound on sound?" I only know the term from the magazine's name (and can't seem to find a good definition on Google, due to the abundance of magazine-related hits). :help:

User avatar
Cat-A-Tonic
Lobsters love Muff
Posts: 3737
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:03 am
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Sound on Sound

Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:48 pm

"Sound on Sound" is when you record something in a loop and then you overdub something else on the same loop with the original sound still there. The more overdubs you do on the same loop the more the previous sounds will degrade.

I use an EH 16 second delay reissue for this sort of thing.
You can record, reverse, than record something else forward...
stretch or squash time and/or pitch.... Its fun. 8)

User avatar
J.w.M.
Analog Addict
Posts: 426
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:03 am
Location: LA

Post by J.w.M. » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:42 pm

Awesome-- thanks Cat-A-Tonic... Sounds like sound-on-sound is pretty much what it's sounds like :razz:

User avatar
Kwote
Voltage Controlled Crackpot
Posts: 3107
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Post by Kwote » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:58 pm

J.w.M. wrote:Awesome-- thanks Cat-A-Tonic... Sounds like sound-on-sound is pretty much what it's sounds like :razz:
oh yeah. i used to have a boss GT6 and among it's many presets sound on sound was one of them. surprised i forgot that.
Self expression is as essential as breathing
kwotemusic.com
my other sites

User avatar
Kent
Large Member
Posts: 11990
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by Kent » Thu May 01, 2008 3:47 am

"Sound on Sound" is simply the removal of the 'Erase' head from the equation. It is indefinite overdub city.

If you want a good & undervalued Tape Echo, search out the Multivox MX-312. One of my faves and offers two types of "Sound on Sound"

consumed any of the 1/2" and lower Fostex, Tascam & other consumer oriented tape machines should work out for you as well. There is a tube-driven Akai that kicks ass. I can't recall the model number at the moment but that thing cranks.

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

Post by consumed » Tue May 06, 2008 2:20 pm

well, i think i scored today. a local studio was dumping a couple tape machines.
by stupid luck i stumbled on the ad. went and got meself one of these (on a heavy rolling stand) for $90:
an otari mx5050 half track 1/4" stereo recorder.
since i was there i picked up 10 reels of ampex 641 NOS, sealed even.
probably paid a little too much for them though, at $8/reel :deadbanana:

Image

User avatar
felix
Loves the manuals!
Posts: 3865
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:05 am
Location: San Jose, CA

Post by felix » Tue May 06, 2008 2:25 pm

Nice score! :hyper:

$8 NOS tapes doesn't sound that bad at all. I was paying $120 for 2" reels 7-8 years ago; and that was with a "bro deal" hookup.
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/225002
https://jimdrones.bandcamp.com

User avatar
Kent
Large Member
Posts: 11990
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by Kent » Tue May 06, 2008 4:41 pm

That is an AWESOME score; as long as the heads, motors & other mechanical parts have even 40% life left. I used to service a fleet of those units. They be güt :tu:

User avatar
Chuck E. Jesus
holier than thou
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: next to Serious Fun!

Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Tue May 06, 2008 5:11 pm

:headbang:

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

Post by consumed » Wed May 07, 2008 2:21 am

ok, mine is pretty close but a little different from the pic.
im pretty stoked it has variable speed. and the speed can be adjusted both while recording and playback.
:sb:
ill have to figure out how to use the sound on sound functionality.
they call it SEL REP. im still trying to grok the functionality of the four heads.

SO!
i did some recording tonight with it. it prints a pretty strong signal to tape.
but it has some funny fluttery noise before the recording starts, in the right channel, which is not bugging me because i like the dirt factor.
so WOW! im driving recordings into tape saturation range. im getting totally new tonalities. my 606 sounds WAY better on tape than anywhere else.
i actually like the kickdrum now
:w00t:


Image

it fits in snug right next to the mixer. things are getting tight in here.

Image

tiny333
SONIC WARRIOR
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:00 am

Post by tiny333 » Wed May 07, 2008 3:46 am

wow wow :band: :band: :band:

that rocks you got a great machine for £45!!

and paid £4 per tape reel and you think that might be a bit steep!! :msnsmack:

u jammy bugger :haha: :haha: :rastanana: :rastanana: :rastanana: :rastanana: :rastanana: :rastanana: :rastanana:

User avatar
Chuck E. Jesus
holier than thou
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: next to Serious Fun!

Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Wed May 07, 2008 7:42 am

consumed wrote:ok, mine is pretty close but a little different from the pic.
im pretty stoked it has variable speed. and the speed can be adjusted both while recording and playback.
:sb:
ill have to figure out how to use the sound on sound functionality.
they call it SEL REP. im still trying to grok the functionality of the four heads.

SO!
i did some recording tonight with it. it prints a pretty strong signal to tape.
but it has some funny fluttery noise before the recording starts, in the right channel, which is not bugging me because i like the dirt factor.
so WOW! im driving recordings into tape saturation range. im getting totally new tonalities. my 606 sounds WAY better on tape than anywhere else.
i actually like the kickdrum now
:w00t:

http://classes.berklee.edu/mpe/pdf_file ... 5050b2.pdf

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

Post by consumed » Wed May 07, 2008 9:13 am

thanks for the info!
i did acquire the full manual hardcopy with schematics when i bought it... a very good thing.
my model is the mx-5050 B2HD
and i found a website about someone having restored his.
http://www.tubesrit.com/audio/

after looking at the pics of his deck, i really appreciate the decent condition of mine :lol:

so having gotten a bit further into the spool, i started to have some trouble with one channel or the other going out while recording my own test tones to tape. it has something to do with the record and sel rep buttons...im not sure if the contacts are a little flaky or what. the funny thing is if i record something dynamic it does a bit better, although i can hear variations between the channels with a mono signal. so i think that, if i dont end up taking this machine apart, i will at least be fully learning how to maintain it
:party:
:lol:
another thing to learn how to do! :doh:
i did visually inspect the heads last night after this behavior.
they look pretty good, im not too worried about any expensive hardware replacements.

User avatar
Chuck E. Jesus
holier than thou
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: next to Serious Fun!

Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Wed May 07, 2008 9:35 am

make sure you buy a good head demag right off...try some Deoxit as well, clean it up good...

if i had that i'd join up at Gear Slutz...

User avatar
Kent
Large Member
Posts: 11990
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:17 am
Location: Vienna, Austria

Post by Kent » Wed May 07, 2008 10:11 am

A De-Magnetizer is a 'must'. ONLY buy an Annis Han-D-Mag. Nothing else. And follow the instructions diligently. There are a lot of steps about moving slowly toward and away from the heads & not plugging the Han-D-Mag into the wall socket anywhere near the whole machine.

Don't use DeOxit on anything but the I/O jacks/XLRs. Denatured alcohol is to be used upon the heads and tape path except for the rubber parts. And I'm not talking about Isopropyl Alcohol here. That stuff has water (and other stuff) in it and will cause problems. You can get the correct alcohol at pharmacists and places like ATR Service Co. or John French's operation.
You can use purpose-formulated rubber cleaner (keeps rubber moisturized), Windex, or your own spit -without coffee in it- to clean the rubber parts that touch tape. Alcohol will dry rubber out and cause it to crack.

User avatar
consumed
International Filter Conspiracy
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: nor cal

Post by consumed » Wed May 07, 2008 10:56 am

Kent wrote:A De-Magnetizer is a 'must'. ONLY buy an Annis Han-D-Mag. Nothing else. And follow the instructions diligently. There are a lot of steps about moving slowly toward and away from the heads & not plugging the Han-D-Mag into the wall socket anywhere near the whole machine.

Don't use DeOxit on anything but the I/O jacks/XLRs. Denatured alcohol is to be used upon the heads and tape path except for the rubber parts. And I'm not talking about Isopropyl Alcohol here. That stuff has water (and other stuff) in it and will cause problems. You can get the correct alcohol at pharmacists and places like ATR Service Co. or John French's operation.
You can use purpose-formulated rubber cleaner (keeps rubber moisturized), Windex, or your own spit -without coffee in it- to clean the rubber parts that touch tape. Alcohol will dry rubber out and cause it to crack.
thank you for this :guinness:
im tracking down a hanDmag right now.
denatured alcohol? do you mean pure isopropyl alcohol (like 99% or 100%)? denatured is nasty stuff! i have a can of S-L-X denatured out in the garage.

:lol: at the comment about coffee-less spit ! good info about cleaning the rubber though. i did not know about spit and windex =)

User avatar
Chuck E. Jesus
holier than thou
Posts: 2882
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:13 pm
Location: next to Serious Fun!

Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Wed May 07, 2008 11:17 am

Kent wrote: Don't use DeOxit on anything but the I/O jacks/XLRs.
i thought DeOxit is a good choice for the contacts he's having a possible problem with? i just use the Rat Shack contact cleaner on my stuff, but i'm kind of a redneck...

i didn't mean to clean heads with it, sorry for being unclear...and if i'm way off base with anything, i love to be set straight :tu:

one of these days i have to check out my Ampex, see if it even works...i have a few boxes of tapes from "back in the day"....

Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”