Trigger Pulse to MIDI Clock?

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bwhittington
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Trigger Pulse to MIDI Clock?

Post by bwhittington » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:19 pm

I'm pretty much a neophyte to the DAW world--I more or less use Logic as a tape recorder--and I would like to know if it is possible to use gate or trigger pulses to control MIDI tempo. I found the Innerclock Sync-Lock which seems to do this, but that website is so wordy it reads more like a manifesto than a product description, and I'm not entirely sure. If it does the trick, is it the best option or are there other ways to go.

My objective is to slave Logic and/or my Schaltwerk (which has both MIDI and DIN sync) to an analog sequencer or possibly to trigger pulses from an instrument interface/envelope follower. Also, I am wondering if Logic will record tempo changes transmitted via MIDI as they are played.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Brian

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Post by dude » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:34 pm

this better result in some recorded music from your new stuff!!! :hihi:

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Post by Suburban Bather » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:35 pm

While I still had my Dotcom stuff and midi interface, I did it the other way around with Ableton Live. Modular and MFB-503 slave to Live. Midi clip from Live would send 16th note messages to the Dotcom midi>cv converter via the usb midi interface. The trigger out of the Dotcom midi>cv converter went into the clock input of my my MFB Seq-01 and the Seq-02 slaves to the 01. The other midi out of my usb midi interface sent tempo, start, and stop commands to my MFB-503. Seemed pretty solid. Just press the space bar and everthing starts running at the tempo set by Live. Worked great to record loops.

Since I sold my Dotcom stuff, I decided to get the Synk-Lock and give away my usb midi interface. It will work the same way except my Seq-01 receives its clock pulses from the Sync-Lock, which will be clocked from my soundcard. Midi out of the Sync-Lock goes to the MFB-503.
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Post by bwhittington » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:55 pm

Suburban Bather wrote: Since I sold my Dotcom stuff, I decided to get the Synk-Lock and give away my usb midi interface. It will work the same way except my Seq-01 receives its clock pulses from the Sync-Lock, which will be clocked from my soundcard. Midi out of the Sync-Lock goes to the MFB-503.
From this description, I'm not getting the vibe that the Sync-Lock does what I want. What I am trying to achieve is a manageable recording by my DAW of tempo changes from my analog sequencer or trigger pulses from alternative sources (handclap, water drops).

I don't have any problem understanding the concept of syncing my sequencers to a MIDI clock, but I feel like I might as well be wearing a strait jacket when I do that. I'd like my timing to wander all over the place, and also to not have to use my computer as a compositional starting point.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:11 pm

I don't know if the Moon M552 will be exactly what you need or not but it comes somewhat close . . . maybe?
http://www.lunar-experience.com/552.html

Image

Scaff, the lucky feller, got one of these recently and can maybe answer your questions. Try posting in this thread he started:
viewtopic.php?t=8978

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Post by goiks » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:48 pm

at one point i made midi clock in max/msp sync to an audio pulse input from the modular. there was a little lag when changing tempo. never took it further, but at some point would love to sync other apps to that, unless someone here can offer another simpler suggestion. it seems like if an app has a tap tempo input, you should be able to make that listen to an audio input.

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Post by bwhittington » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:32 pm

Using the phrase "tap tempo" as a search word, I found a wiki tutorial on mapping tempos in Logic based on existing beats, which seems pretty cool. One of the problems I have is that I will come up with some freewheeling LFO-based noodle (or worse, timing based on my playing) and have an absolute fit trying to make sense of it on the computer. So, thanks Golk for that. :tu: I'll have to read up on it to see if it works the way have in mind.

If there is a hardware option, I would still be very interested in learning about it. I had looked at the Moon module before, to decipher whether or not it would work in that way. It didn't look obvious to me, but it might be worth asking the Moon guys about.

Thanks for the replies!

Cheers,
Brian

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Post by bwhittington » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:53 pm

JohnLRice wrote:I don't know if the Moon M552 will be exactly what you need or not but it comes somewhat close . . . maybe?
Actually, if this turned a trigger pulse into a midi note/event, it might simplify or improve the accuracy of using a software beat-mapping feature. Might be worth looking into, not to mention about a gazillion other potential uses for that module.

Cheers,
Brian

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Post by Suburban Bather » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:04 am

bwhittington wrote:
JohnLRice wrote:I don't know if the Moon M552 will be exactly what you need or not but it comes somewhat close . . . maybe?
Actually, if this turned a trigger pulse into a midi note/event, it might simplify or improve the accuracy of using a software beat-mapping feature. Might be worth looking into, not to mention about a gazillion other potential uses for that module.

Cheers,
Brian
The Sync-Lock is clocked from an audio trigger input. You can use the midi out of the Sync-Lock to clock Logic in time with your modular.
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Post by bwhittington » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:54 am

Cool. I'm going to have to get one of these guys. I was poking around to order and couldn't find them for sale anywhere, but apparently they are going to be (re?)released later this month.

From Matrixsynth: "The Sync-Lock can be fed pulses from any device - it works on Audio or Voltage Pulses and does not need DC Coupled Hardware or any modification to work."

Not the sexiest use of $400, but quite useful if it works.

Cheers,
Brian

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Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:20 am

you don't have to use midi...you can simply use audio pulses from LFOs, etc and record them in a DAW...then use those pulses for sync...

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Post by bwhittington » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:42 am

Chuck E. Jesus wrote:you don't have to use midi...you can simply use audio pulses from LFOs, etc and record them in a DAW...then use those pulses for sync...
How would I do that? Record a sync track and patch the audio back to my synth? Sounds like a primitive Volta function. Or patch the audio pulses into an external audio interface, to convert them to voltage pulses, assuming that DC does not pass through my computer's audio interface?

Sorry if this is starting to sound like a conversation that's been done before. I'm way behind the curve on these topics.

Cheers,
Brian

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Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:14 pm

bwhittington wrote:
Sorry if this is starting to sound like a conversation that's been done before. I'm way behind the curve on these topics.

Cheers,
Brian
no prob...

any audio interface should be able to record an audio timing pulse, it's not a DC issue...for example: if you are driving an analog sequencer like a Doepfer A-155 from an LFO, split the signal and record the LFO pulse to a separate DAW track (it helps to have a multi-channel interface) while recording whatever audio you have going, then take the audio pulse out, route it to whatever, and make as many passes as you want...you can get creative and use a pulse divider for different timings,etc...when i've done this i used a Doepfer Dual Trigger Delay to get real discreet pulses (to and from the DAW timing tracK), you may need to putz around a bit with levels/wave shapes and such to get the best results...

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Post by bwhittington » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:15 pm

That sounds awesome! Not simple, but manageable. That accomplishes syncing for overdubbing, and also would allow me to use the sync track for mapping the tempo in Logic, to facilitate easier editing.

I've been trying to match transients to measures to set the tempo manually, which has been a fruitless effort, and I also would like to record patches with a more fluid timing. I'd love to hear an example you come up with, but I will be experimenting with this myself tonight. I use a Fireface 800 as my audio interface, so I have tons of ins and outs.
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Cheers,
Brian

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Post by os » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:15 am

Let me preface the below by saying - recording trigger pulses straight into Logic is probably a good way to go. However...

another option would be to generate MIDI using a combination of
* Silent Way CV Input & CV To OSC
* OSCulator
* maybe something like MIDIPipe though Logic's environment would probably achieve similar things if you need them.

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Post by goiks » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:36 pm

Or a function in Silent Way to generate MIDI clock from a pulse input automatically? That would push me over the purchasing edge... (I'm probably there anyway, just need to prioritize funds in your direction). I know...wishful thinking, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
os wrote: another option would be to generate MIDI using a combination of
* Silent Way CV Input & CV To OSC
* OSCulator
* maybe something like MIDIPipe though Logic's environment would probably achieve similar things if you need them.

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Post by os » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:43 pm

That would be good, wouldn't it? :)

I'll add it to the list. I think Silent Way CV To MIDI is a shoe-in for a future plug-in (doing what CV To OSC does now but for MIDI) so maybe the clock generation could be part of that.

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Post by os » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:36 am

$395? That's a lot to pay for one output of DINsync.

You could get a MOTU Ultralite and Silent Way for not much more than that giving you 8 or more outputs and a lot more functionality than clock outputs.

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Post by Audio Resistance » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:50 am

innerclock wrote:Some nice news:-



http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/ ... ge&name=16

Best regards - David
www.innerclocksystems.com
This has not been released yet , has it?

I also do not see a way to send reset to Sequencers, but otherwise this looks really nice.
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Post by bwhittington » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:13 pm

I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for answering my questions. I'm just starting to get the hang of using audio pulses for a sync track in Logic, and it is working great! It's a bit of work to map the tempo, but since that work can come *after* I've laid down some ideas, it eliminates a big barrier for recording.

Interestingly to me, when I used gates from my Schaltwerk as the pulses, the timing was all over the place--plus or minus 1 bpm per measure. What a terrible clock source that is. Pulses from a Modcan 53b Clock module were dead-on consistent.

Cheers,
Brian

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