(ground) noise

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msk
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(ground) noise

Post by msk » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:55 am

hello!

this sounds like brand noobian question and that's what it is too...

i'm new to this forum and pretty fresh with modulars aswell, though i have experience of 15 years making electronic music.

i'm wondering what makes my modular system so noisy. got a doepfer suitcase, not quite filled up yet, but getting rather much of (perhaps ground) humming to the sound. for example my dark energy next to it is not having the similar buzzing.

i know there's many different things that could be causing this, but if someone has got some tips for me to check out it'd be great! i would have thinked that doepfer case has clean proper PSU so it shouldn't be the issue...


peace!

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SynthBaron
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Post by SynthBaron » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:01 am

What's your audio path like?

msk
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Post by msk » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:30 am

from modulars straight to mackie onyx or via neutrik patchbay, same result. or do you mean within the a-100?

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Kent
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Post by Kent » Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:02 am

Go through the process of elimination. If you can disconnect your modular from your mixer and verify that the noise isn't already there (try raising your control room outputs for a few seconds) and then work your way backwards. Always work your way backwards.

Also, verify that all of your audio gear has the same path to ground (a.k.a. technical earth). Are they all plugged into the same outlet? It is also very common for cheap power strips to have all of the grounds daisy-chained and this can lead to ground loops.

If the ground noise is verified to be isolated to the EuroRack, then examine as to whether it is caused by any specific combination of modules in that Doepfer rack.

Trouble-shooting grounding issues, after the fact, is a massive pain in the nutsack. Scan through this document for the basics of star-grounding and clean audio installation: Image

And by the way, EuroRack systems are notoriously lackadaisical regarding proper grounding schemes.
Last edited by Kent on Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

msk
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Post by msk » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:20 pm

cool, thanks for the tips!

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dude
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Post by dude » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:11 pm

just tried to read that pdf and my mind is still completely blown. i was having some grounding issues the other day. may still to some degree. the main symptoms (loud noise/hum)seemed to go away after switching modules around as well as power cables. i still get a little electrical click (+ sometimes the tiniest of shocks) when touching some of my gear. i know the house i rent isn't properly grounded as it was built before current electrical standards. i wonder what i can do reasonably/simply?

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Post by TrashWaveform » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:40 pm

A lot of noise head aches for me has been fixed via cables. For example a cable might have gone bad or your power cable is too close to an audio cable. Wiggle a cable and see if there is a change in sound. If you use a company like Monster for cables they will replace these defective cables free of charge. 8_)
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Muff Wiggler
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Post by Muff Wiggler » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:49 pm

maybe this will help you? I once had clicking and noise when I touched the sleeve or nut of jacks... no longer...

viewtopic.php?t=1621

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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:29 pm

ground noise and line noise can be a real b**ch. And I'm certainly no expert.

I had a lot of luck by replacing a lot of my 1/4'' cables with balanced cables where ever it was possible. A few xlr cables, a direct box with ground lift once in a while. Even had a mc-202 that I had to move away from another device cause it was picking up noise from it (it was modified with unshielded wires if I understand correctly)

hang in there.. it can be very frustrating.
JensenJohn.bandcamp.com

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dude
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Post by dude » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:06 pm

update: ground loop defeated. thatnks to Consumed and Muff. SO MUCH NICER TO PLAY! my god. deeply grateful for the help. :sb:

xart

Post by xart » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:25 pm

Kent wrote:
And by the way, EuroRack systems are notoriously lackadaisical regarding proper grounding schemes.
No shit! I am pretty 'new' this euro-racket :hihi: and just purchased a polivoks. I put it in my rack and all hell broke loose with ground noise that would change the sound of the filter depending on how 'tight' I had the screws in. :hmm:

Needless to say ...I spend a half a Saturday moving this little fukcer around in different rack locations to get the noise away.....I was >.< close ebay-ing the whole rig. The Korg M1 never has problems like this! :tu:

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Post by modularland » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:15 pm

get a power conditioner- I got a Monster 3500 (I know many monster products aren't legit- this one definitely is) and it worked WONDERS for my studio's noise floor

I plug my KRK monitors, Mytek & Apogee converters, and modular into it...

now I can turn up the monitors and D/A and I hear NOTHING... pure silence!

I also think it helped stabilize some digital dropouts I was getting...
Steve L

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exeterdown
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Post by exeterdown » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:11 am

dude - What .pdf is that?

A particular problem with my Motu Ultralite was using the Firewire connection - every time I moved the mouse on my iMac I'd get a high frequency static/ringing sound come through the monitors. I swapped it out for the USB cable instead and the problem nearly went away. Sometimes I can still hear it very faintly.

I'll be getting an Apogee Quartet soon to replace the Motu and when I plug it in for the first time I think I'm going to tear the studio apart and do a proper clean start from scratch kind of re-build. Like, one unit at a time and turn everything on - test speakers listen closely - all that.

I'm also going to spend more time running power and audio cables away from one another - like power on the floor/audio draped across the back of desks. Try and keep them isolated as best I can - though in some cases it's impossible. The back end of racks with patch-bays and stuff can get pretty hectic.

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Post by n_m » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:48 am

exeterdown wrote:dude - What .pdf is that?
PDF is linked in Kent's post
This one http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/caig/caig.pdf
Thanks for resurrecting this thread, or I would have missed it too :hihi: , great resource for troubleshooting!

Throwgnilli
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PDF

Post by Throwgnilli » Fri May 19, 2017 10:32 am

dude wrote:just tried to read that pdf and my mind is still completely blown. i was having some grounding issues the other day. may still to some degree. the main symptoms (loud noise/hum)seemed to go away after switching modules around as well as power cables. i still get a little electrical click (+ sometimes the tiniest of shocks) when touching some of my gear. i know the house i rent isn't properly grounded as it was built before current electrical standards. i wonder what i can do reasonably/simply?
Hello mate what PDF are you reading?

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Re: PDF

Post by mt3 » Fri May 26, 2017 3:45 am

Throwgnilli wrote:
dude wrote:just tried to read that pdf and my mind is still completely blown. i was having some grounding issues the other day. may still to some degree. the main symptoms (loud noise/hum)seemed to go away after switching modules around as well as power cables. i still get a little electrical click (+ sometimes the tiniest of shocks) when touching some of my gear. i know the house i rent isn't properly grounded as it was built before current electrical standards. i wonder what i can do reasonably/simply?
Hello mate what PDF are you reading?
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/applic ... tion-guide

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Multi Grooves
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Post by Multi Grooves » Sat May 27, 2017 5:56 pm

I was having headache when recording via my ES8 but I've managed to trace the issue to my 1970s amp. When it is connected to the sound card the noise appears.
I guess it was tricky to find as I'm not recording all the time hence it didn't show itself.

The amp itself has been slowly getting worse in it's performance, like one of the channels not always working, crackly balance knob...Could it be dead capacitors causing electrical ground difference/buzz? Would it be worth just buying a new, much more simplified amp or just getting active monitors?
...but Cynthia, my Daddy never had a heath kit..

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Post by Jaypee » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:25 pm

Multi Grooves wrote:I was having headache when recording via my ES8 but I've managed to trace the issue to my 1970s amp. When it is connected to the sound card the noise appears.
I guess it was tricky to find as I'm not recording all the time hence it didn't show itself.

The amp itself has been slowly getting worse in it's performance, like one of the channels not always working, crackly balance knob...Could it be dead capacitors causing electrical ground difference/buzz? Would it be worth just buying a new, much more simplified amp or just getting active monitors?
I have the same problem:
viewtopic.php?p=3002831#3002831

what did you do?

Cheers,

J.
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Multi Grooves
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Post by Multi Grooves » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:20 am

Hello yamaha HS7s...
...but Cynthia, my Daddy never had a heath kit..

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