SID

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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science
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SID

Post by science » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:34 am

Someone, please, make a module with a DSP setup of some kind that can control a SID chip (or three) :tu:

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A Dingleberry Monstrosity
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Post by A Dingleberry Monstrosity » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:50 am

Im amazed this hasnt been done yet
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ST UF FLI N EAR
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Post by ST UF FLI N EAR » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:00 am

somebody hopefully will do this and
i hope it will be called the "1984"
:bananallama:

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futuresoundsystems
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Post by futuresoundsystems » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:14 am

Have you seen this Science?
Unique designs and ideas in sound since 2005:
http://www.futuresoundsystems.co.uk

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Post by science » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:18 am

Yea, I've been following that one. Looking forward to it.

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Kent
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Post by Kent » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:28 am

If you are willing to go Frac and rock the Pokey chip from an Atari:

http://skrasoft.com/

RAWK :nana:

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Post by wetterberg » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:33 am

kent, what's "Frac"? Is this some kind of vintage format?





:hide:

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transferpoint
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Post by transferpoint » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:52 am

No its a hypothetical format, its just a name we choose to use when discussing ideas. 8_) It's like saying 'John Doe' as to not alienate anyone.

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Post by Kent » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:49 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:


:fu:
wetterberg wrote:kent, what's "Frac"? Is this some kind of vintage format?





:hide:

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Re: SID

Post by emeb » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:08 pm

science wrote:Someone, please, make a module with a DSP setup of some kind that can control a SID chip (or three) :tu:
Considering the huge number of control parameters in a SID chip, what do you think would be the best way to drive it in a CV-oriented modular system?

The main thing that concerns me is that you'd either end up with a panel with umpty-zillion jacks & knobs that would cost a friggin' fortune to build, or you'd need some sort of LCD user interface & patch management that would end up being like a MIDIbox SID mounted to a Euro panel.

Eric

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Re: SID

Post by ix » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:08 pm

yeah i miss my old sidstation , all those crazy wavetables were cool , i think there has to be one out soon in euro ? are the chips rare ?
science wrote:Someone, please, make a module with a DSP setup of some kind that can control a SID chip (or three) :tu:

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Post by Peake » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:31 pm

People have put MIDIbox.org setups behind various modular panels...it remains for someone to produce panels ready-for-use.
This is not the place I'd imagined it to be.

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Re: SID

Post by attacksustain » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:51 pm

ix wrote:yeah i miss my old sidstation , all those crazy wavetables were cool , i think there has to be one out soon in euro ? are the chips rare ?
Very. Elektron allegedly bought up all the remaining stock of 6581's for the sidstations. Since they ran out, it's unlikely they'll ever be made again.
wikipedia has a good write-up about it.

The monomachine has a DSP emulation of a SID which is pretty decent, and probably an implementation like that is the closest we'll get in a module.

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Post by science » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:02 pm

6582As pop up every once in a while from a few different sources. I'm sure there is still a cache of NOS chips somewhere.

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Re: SID

Post by science » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:48 pm

emeb wrote:
science wrote:Someone, please, make a module with a DSP setup of some kind that can control a SID chip (or three) :tu:
Considering the huge number of control parameters in a SID chip, what do you think would be the best way to drive it in a CV-oriented modular system?

The main thing that concerns me is that you'd either end up with a panel with umpty-zillion jacks & knobs that would cost a friggin' fortune to build, or you'd need some sort of LCD user interface & patch management that would end up being like a MIDIbox SID mounted to a Euro panel.

Eric
Haven't really put a whole lot of thought into how it would be implemented. I'd guess something roughly the size of an AFG would allow enough space for the most commonly tweaked functions to be brought out to jacks for CV control, and maybe an LCD display and encoder for "set and forget" type functions. There would still probably be enough room for knobs to go with all the CV functions.

Then again, I'm not an EE or a module designer, so I could be way off base.

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Post by chinard » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:59 pm

A Dingleberry Monstrosity wrote:Im amazed this hasnt been done yet
there is actually work done via the MidiBox project to have voltage control of a midiboxSID using the A-IN boards.
I'm too lazy to find the forum article right now but the groundwork has been done. Just a matter of stuffing it into a module and making the power supply compatible.

And source for sid chips?
Just buy a dead or used c-64 from ebay and pull the chip!

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A Dingleberry Monstrosity
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Post by A Dingleberry Monstrosity » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:01 pm

I knew about the midibox, but making it modular was definitely new.
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Post by chinard » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:09 pm

A Dingleberry Monstrosity wrote:I knew about the midibox, but making it modular was definitely new.
I've seen a number of people using midibox as a cheap CV sequencer and Midi-CV interface. Like i said, the key is in the A-OUT boards which simply are configurable analog outs... the rest is in the CORE module coding.
Most of the info you will find on this will be via the Midibox SEQ and the Midibox CV project, but the current run of midibox SID supports 5 CV IN and 8 CV out.

http://www.ucapps.de/

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Post by Junk Rhythm » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:36 pm

wetterberg wrote:kent, what's "Frac"? Is this some kind of vintage format?
:hide:
No it's a spelling mistake. Sometimes Frac pops up when you really mean to type Euro.

I remember someone mentioning a Euro SID module. Skrasms maybe?

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Re: SID

Post by Junk Rhythm » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:41 pm

attacksustain wrote:
ix wrote:yeah i miss my old sidstation , all those crazy wavetables were cool , i think there has to be one out soon in euro ? are the chips rare ?
Very. Elektron allegedly bought up all the remaining stock of 6581's for the sidstations. Since they ran out, it's unlikely they'll ever be made again.
wikipedia has a good write-up about it.
Look around midibox.org. There are plenty of NOS SID chips available still. A user named Wilba on the MIDIbox forums has done a few group buys for that particular SID chip and at reasonable prices. You don't have to gut an old C64 and you really shouldn't in my opinion.

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Post by Knobtwister » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:11 pm

The Pokey looks awesome, I'm really digging the sid so one in the rack would be cool :party:

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Post by skrasms » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:10 am

My SID design is mostly just for fun because the whole idea is a multi-tiered can of worms. The chip can do so much that everyone has a different idea of what's important to put in a module. I think my last plan ended up somewhere around 64 HP to do the chip my personal brand of justice.

Add to that the difficulty in finding SID chips. Last I heard, Wilba's group buys at midibox had ended for good. Those were the last reliable source that I knew. I have been able to find sources for lots of old chips, but SIDs are rare and expensive. People know they have value, so as soon as a new source pops up it gets depleted. Then there are the risks with fried/rebranded chips.

Someone on midibox did make an analog-controlled SID module in Frac as I recall. It was solving a different problem than what I have in mind. Analog control is one thing, but audio rate FM and high sample rates are not something that the midibox system is designed to handle. That's not to say there is anything wrong with their SID control system. It was just designed with a different set of goals in mind, the most important being MIDI control.

I want audio rate FM good to 15 kHz on each of the oscillators, oscillator hard sync inputs, filter frequency error compensation, and other wacky stuff. I came up with a control system that works great on paper. Getting it actually up and running still needs months of work, though. Since I have extreme doubts that I will be able to make back what it costs me to develop this, it's more a personal challenge than anything else. I have doubts that I'd be able to sell modules for less than $800.

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Post by tIB » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:44 am

^ There's still plenty of SIDs around; the new sammich project (wilba's) ships with 2 per kit if you want them. There's also swinsid which Ive read is pretty good as an alternative to the original (Im not saying its a replacement but it would do until some more SIDs were released by whoever has them).

Anyway, Id love a SID module for sure, someone do it quick as it will save me the time and energy of both learning to solder and attempting to build 2 sammich's and an MB6582 when I get back to England... will be a hard graft but I really need to learn some soldering skills anyways.

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Post by kopplog » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:54 am

whazzabout this ?

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tIB
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Post by tIB » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:54 am

^ I dont really see how you can edit the sounds on that- is there control of any parameters?

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