Trigger sequencer idea

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hbc
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Trigger sequencer idea

Post by hbc » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:23 pm

Been thinking about that uStep sequencer that's been posted, and a few of the interface issues brought up in that thread got me thinking. If you're going for 8 steps, do you see buttons as a necessity? What about using an encoder that lets you pick any of the 256 possible 8 step sequences? It would be like thinking in binary, which may or may not be attractive, but it would also provide a sort of rudimentary patch recall. Here's an example panel for a 4 channel trigger or gate sequencer:
Image

The two digit display on the top left is really superfluous, if you're good with binary. Two digits would be fun, so the pattern number is in hex.

So yeah, sort of obtuse, but it would make sense to me. And it would have plenty of blink appeal.

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Post by Kent » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:15 pm

That made my cerebral cortex hurt.

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Post by futuresoundsystems » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:37 pm

It'll take minutes to program a long-ish sequence though, and not very good for "live" playing.
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Post by hbc » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:43 pm

futuresoundsystems wrote:It'll take minutes to program a long-ish sequence though, and not very good for "live" playing.
The idea is that you spin the encoder, and it cycles through all possible sequences:

so as you rotate clockwise it steps through in order at each detent:

Code: Select all

00000001
00000010
00000011
00000100
It would probably take 10 turns around the pot to address all 256 possibilities.

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Post by bwhittington » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:27 pm

Interesting idea, but the main point of a trigger sequencer (to me) is live manipulation of a pattern. Scrolling through 256 patterns isn't the same thing at all. Something like this might be interesting in an entirely different way if it had voltage control of the pattern selection. In other words, it should do something bizarre to make up for its limitations.

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Post by ST UF FLI N EAR » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:37 pm

yes indeed! voltagecontrol over the patternselection would be great on this!

i dont get the 4 different colums though?? do the colums shift?

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Post by bwhittington » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:40 pm

ST UF FLI N EAR wrote:i dont get the 4 different colums though?? do the colums shift?
I think it is a 4x8 design.

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Post by hbc » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:15 pm

VC pattern selection would be super cool. I should clarify, this is just sort of a thought experiment for me. I don't have the resources to make this kind of stuff, even as a 1-off DIY thing.

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Post by NV » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:30 pm

That's certainly a unique approach, but I don't see any benefits except as a "throw away" sequencer where you can select the stages through voltage control, essentially making it a somewhat predictable random trigger/gate source. I don't see any benefit of patch recall for something as simple as a trigger sequencer.

I have some modules that operate off the principle of binary stage selection (ModCan), but only for sixteen possible stages and only for visual reference purposes with LEDs to show where you're at rather than a character display. I have no problems operating it, but that's because it's only sixteen possible combinations and I'm not trying to set up an 8-stage sequence with rests in some areas and triggers in others. With 256 possible combinations and the mindset that I need a particular combination, setting that up with buttons would take less than two seconds whereas doing it with binary selection would take not only a solid grasp of binary and the mechanics of the module, but also the additional time to scroll through 256 possibilities to the proper setting. It could be fun with voltage control, but as an editable sequencer I think it would go down in history as "most frustrating module ever."

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Post by fonik » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:57 am

hbc wrote:
futuresoundsystems wrote:It'll take minutes to program a long-ish sequence though, and not very good for "live" playing.
The idea is that you spin the encoder, and it cycles through all possible sequences:

so as you rotate clockwise it steps through in order at each detent:

Code: Select all

00000001
00000010
00000011
00000100
It would probably take 10 turns around the pot to address all 256 possibilities.
funny. i am currently working on an analogue implementation of that principle in a 8-step sequencer. i call it VC pattern baby-8. i actually did not want to talk about it, but now that you mentioned it...

however, my module will provide only one 8-step sequencer, but with CV, trigger and gate outputs, and manual switches to overwrite the ADC.

maybe it will be split into two modules: a seperate ADC flasher and a simple 8-step sequencer!? i am not decided yet.

it will be available for DIY first, and it could look like this (work in progress):

Image
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Post by wetterberg » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:05 am

fonik, I love this one - start a new thread for it in the DIY section please! :yay:

@hbc: I actually really like this idea. You could realize it with two 4x4 led matrices, some tact swithes and such. Nice.

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Post by futuresoundsystems » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:34 am

hbc wrote:
futuresoundsystems wrote:It'll take minutes to program a long-ish sequence though, and not very good for "live" playing.
The idea is that you spin the encoder, and it cycles through all possible sequences:
so as you rotate clockwise it steps through in order at each detent:

Code: Select all

00000001
00000010
00000011
00000100
It would probably take 10 turns around the pot to address all 256 possibilities.
Ah, I see, that is quite interesting. Perhaps it'd get people using sequences they wouldn't have logically thought up before...?
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Post by wetterberg » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:42 am

I would just do it with a regular knob. Sure, it would be quite sensitive, but I've seen boards like the arduino have 8bit analogue ins - you can then do straight conversion.

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Post by fonik » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:44 am

NV wrote:With 256 possible combinations and the mindset that I need a particular combination, setting that up with buttons would take less than two seconds whereas doing it with binary selection would take not only a solid grasp of binary and the mechanics of the module, but also the additional time to scroll through 256 possibilities to the proper setting. It could be fun with voltage control...
you are absolutely right, i think. the complexity of 256 different patterns introduces a kind of unpredigtability. therefore i implemented the idea of the overwriting switches. you will be able to select for each step on/off/ADC (not shown on the posted panel layout). a problem for the voltage control is the range. a common ADC accepts 0-5V. so if you wanted to control the patterns by another 10 octave sequencer (10V = 10oct = 256 semitones), you'll need to scale it down. because of this i implemented a CV processor with offset and attenuation. two LEDs will indicate voltages >5V and <0V. the offset and fine control works as manual control too.
i hope to finish the prototype this year. i am curious myself how usable it will be...
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Post by DGTom » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:06 am

:hyper: Pattern Baby! :party:

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Post by fonik » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:41 am

fonik wrote:...10V = 10oct = 256 semitones...
nonsense!
it will be 1/4-tones
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Post by fonik » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:55 am

[quote="wetterberg"]fonik, I love this one - start a new thread for it in the DIY section please! :yay:
quote]

viewtopic.php?p=131593#131593
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