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Serge panels: La Bestia, Edelweiss version II [SHIPPING]
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author Serge panels: La Bestia, Edelweiss version II [SHIPPING]
nordlead
UPDATE 27 May 2017: La Bestia II is here (so are still a few Edelweiss II) - pcbs are also available info / order / status page for La Bestia II and Edelweiss II.

If you have pre-ordered a panel, please order the remainder (and any pcbs you may need) on that page. We are currently testing FEDEX for international shipping (depending on destination), FEDEX requires a telephone number, so please provide one either by adding a message with paypal or replying to the order confirmation. Thanks!

http://randomsource.net/serge_panels

La Bestia II (2017):


Edelweiss II (2016):



====== FROM THE ORIGINAL RUN / OUTDATED ======

UPDATE: everything shipped w00t

I have a few Edelweiss panels left. Contact me if interested. Might have a single WAD panel as well ...

Price per panel is EUR 88 including shipping (WW).

La Bestia:


Sturm&Drang (WAD panel):


Previous run:

Edelweiss:


pcbs of fonik's version of the 555-VCO (in Serge format!) can be ordered (and will be shipped) together with the panel(s) in this thread. All other pcbs are or will be available from CGS : http://cgs.synth.net/
If you want to get your hands on just the 555-pcbs in 4U format (without any panel), please order in > fonik's 555-pcb thread here.

You might save a few Euros on shipping when ordering more than one panel but that depends on the total weight (including the 555 pcb orders). If you are (seriously) interested, please post (exactly) which panel(s) + pcbs you'd be in for (see below) / update your post in this thread. Thanks!

UPDATE Oct 29: Please note the WAD terms & conditions below - thanks!

UPDATE Oct 25: added a list of interest/pre-orders below.

fonik will do a pcb run of the amazing Thomas Henry 555-VCO in CGS format if and only if the panel run happens. This is unlikely if we don't get to at least 10 or 12 panels. This is not a WAD pcb run. So for now I will only consider (pre-)orders including a panel. WAD pcb only pre-orders might be considered if we reach a sufficient number of panels to the extent needed to make the WAD pcb run happen. Thanks for your understanding.

For those who expressed interest in a panel, please update your post to reflect your interest in foniks 555-VCO pcbs in Serge format (2 needed for 1 panel).

---------------------

I'm planning to do a small run for a (full) Serge panel that includes a Wilson Analog Delay (WAD). The design of this panel is being discussed here. (It is not yet finally determined which (other) modules will be in that panel - current draft below)

Some people have expressed interest in this panel, but are held back by the fact that the WAD pcbs are not available any more. Here's some good news:

Ken Stone is willing to support this by doing another Cat Girl Synth WAD pcb (CGS208) run provided that a sufficient number of firm orders - at least 20 - can be organized. screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo MASSIVE THANKS to Ken here we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

Here's the bad news (which most of you will be aware of anyway): the WAD build requires some extremely rare and expensive chips (2x SAD1024, also 2x CA3280 etc. full BOM here), so it's a rather expensive and challenging project.

WAD Terms and Conditions: The WAD pcb is an unsupported CGS project for experienced builders - Ken will provide the pcbs, but no support whatsoever.
The WAD has been built successfully using this pcb by more than one person, so it can be done. However it's entirely up to you to source the parts (like the 2x SAD1024A), make sure they are working/not fake and get this beast up and running.
Do not rely on Ken (or me - I'm clueless anyway) to help you fix any issues.


If you are (seriously) interested, please post the quantity and your country for shipping (e.g. "1 set panel + pcb, France") in this thread. Please do only post your interest if you are sure you want to go ahead with this and you are aware of the sourcing and building challenges involved to give us a realistic view.

Also, please do not use this thread to discuss panel design or the modules contained in it - let's keep that in the design thread. Thanks!

================
Orders (status May 2):


Zeno: 1x La Bestia, 2x 555 (cancelled)
Reality Checkpoint: 1x La Bestia, 1 x Edelweiss + CGS91, 2x 555, UK
fluxmonkey: 1x La Bestia, 1 x Edelweiss, 2x 555, USA
the83: 1x La Bestia, 2x 555
Synesthesia: 1x La Bestia, 4x 555, CGS91 (cancelled)
gregwar: 1 WAD panel, 1 WAD pcb, 2x 555, Canada
bubblesound: 1 WAD panel, 1 WAD pcb

completed:

frozenkore: 1x WAD panel, 1x 555 pcb set, 1x Edelweiss + CGS91, USA
chinard: 1 WAD panel, 1x La Bestia, 2x 555, Canada
PraxisCat: 1 WAD panel, 1 La Bestia panel, 2x 555 pcb set, 1x Edelweiss, USA
rekem1000: 2x WAD panel, 1x La Bestia, 4x 555, 1 x Edelweiss, Australia
otoskope: 1 WAD panel, 2x 555, 3x CGS91, Sweden
c1t1zen: 1x La Besta, 1x WAD-panel, 2x 555 pcb set
tmeade: 1 WAD panel, 1x 555 pcb set, New Zealand
kbo: 1x WAD panel, France
nangu: 3 WAD panels, 6x La Bestia, 9x 555 pcb set, 3x Edelweiss, USA
tekzon: 1x Edelweiss, France
notimeforlove: 1x WAD panel, 1x La Bestia, 2x 555 set, , 1x Edelweiss, USA
bookends: 1x La Bestia, 1x WAD panel, 4x 555
cillianjohn: 1 La Bestia panel, 1x 555 pcb set, CGS91, Finland
jarvis: 1x La Bestia, 1x 555 set, CGS91, USA
harolddonnelly: 1 WAD panel, 1x La Bestia, 4x 555, Canada
monstrinho: 1 WAD panel, 2x 555 set, 3x CGS91, USA
modintx: 1x Edelweiss + CGS91, 2x WAD panel, 2x La Bestia, 1x Edelweiss, 5x CGS91, + 4x 555 set, , US
jooks: 1x La Bestia, 1x 555 set, Sweden
DomMorley: 1x Bestia panel, 1x WAD panel, 2x CGS91, 4x 555 pcb, UK
mandzaro: 1x La Bestia, 555 set, CGS91, 1 x Edelweiss + CGS91,Switzerland
Chaotic: 1x La Bestia, 1x Edelweiss, 2x CGS91, 1x 555 set, Norway
Jonachi: 1x La Bestia, CGS91, 555 set, Sweden
lintfresh: 1x La Bestia
otherunicorn: 1x La Bestia
noodles_on_sauce: 1x Edelweiss + CGS91, USA
Jonachi: 1x Edelweiss + CGS91, Sweden
zdarma: 1x Edelweiss + CGS91, czech republic
jooks: 1x Edelweiss + CGS91, Sweden
(violet = paid, green = shipped)
frozenkore
I'm definitely interested, but I already have a WAD pcb. Can I still get in on this? If so, I'm done for a panel. Looks great!
tojpeters
panel + wad pcb + 2x 555 vco pcbs to california
harolddonnelly
tojpeters wrote:
Could you list which pcbs are used for this panel and where to buy them? i want to take a look at the non-cgs stuff before I commit. Really nice panel.


Are th PCBs for the non CGS still available? Like the buchla ring mod??
Isaiah
I'm already working on a panel design that could accommodate a WAD, so:
Definitely 1 PCB - UK
Though I would likely buy a second if it was the difference between the PCB run happening or not.

Thanks!
dmitri
I will buy some PCBs but will probably make panels for them my self. Nice panel though !
nordlead
frozenkore wrote:
I'm definitely interested, but I already have a WAD pcb. Can I still get in on this?


No problem w00t

tojpeters wrote:
Could you list which pcbs are used for this panel and where to buy them?


Since the final selection depends on availability etc. here's the (preliminary) list for the current draft: fonik (Thomas Henry) 555-VCO x2, fluxmonkey 111 ring mod, CGS LPG, CGS208 (WAD), CGS92 (SSG), [wishful thinking:] CGS??? (Serge Noise), CGS??? (UAP) - yet unclear when the last 2 will be available.

A note re pcb only orders: this interest check is driven by the idea to make the panel and WAD board available to a few interested wigglers (I'll do the panel for myself anyway and I'm lucky to already have a WAD pcb). So this is sort of a banana party exercise nanners . I've contacted fonik for instance asking him if he'd be up for a 555-VCO run in CGS format (which he might This is fun! ). I'm also hoping to find solutions for other loose ends, all of which - in particular the pcb runs - requires a bit of effort and (more important) a sufficient number of people joining in. So while I'm not saying you have to order a panel along with the pcb, a lot of this only makes sense if enough people are interested in the panel (and the pcbs behind it) as well.
thebot
Understood about the panel and the desire to It's peanut butter jelly time! , but if you need PCB orders to make it up to 20 I'll take a PCB. (I'm MOTM so no use for a panel, although I do keep getting tempted to go bananas when I see all these nice panels!).
Norman_Phay
I would like a PCB, but not a panel.
msprigings
I'm interested in the PCB only.
Isaiah
nordlead wrote:

I've contacted fonik for instance asking him if he'd be up for a 555-VCO run in CGS format (which he might This is fun! ).


I'd be interested in one or two of these if that helps your project at all.
Pfurmel
Would be interested just a pcb
Peake
Cancel...sorry.
monstrinho
I'm interested in one panel and two WAD PCBs. If there is a run of 6" Fonik 555 PCBs, I'll be interested in those too (as well as the other PCBs needed for the full panel).

(edit) Just to clarify, Two WAD PCBs, two 555 PCBs and one panel.
wavehead
down for 1x WAD PCB - 2xCGS 555


if i can offer a suggestion?

if the 555 actually does get made in CGS-sized format - the possibility (if there is one at all) of having it modified for a variable waveform output/waveshaper would be awesome.

sine->pulse, sine->tri->pulse... or even the NTO's variable waveform (if it isn't too much work) - whatever, anything that you can shift harmonics and dramatically extend the sounds of a patch without using up another mixer and/or xfade.

maybe i am biased because i kind of want every VCO from here on out with a variable waveform out (if you just love mixing waveforms this feature isn't gonna impair that), but it seems to fit serge nicely.
snufkin
definatly down for a wad pcb :>
eonz
I'm down for a PCB SlayerBadger!
tmeade
Interested in 2 pcbs.
fonik
nordlead wrote:
A note re pcb only orders: this interest check is driven by the idea to make the panel and WAD board available to a few interested wigglers (I'll do the panel for myself anyway and I'm lucky to already have a WAD pcb). So this is sort of a banana party exercise. I've contacted fonik for instance asking him if he'd be up for a 555-VCO run in CGS format (which he might This is fun! ).

i got the go from thomas henry to design and sell a 6x2 PCB of the 555-VCO.
please understand that since his name will appear on the PCB and one has to youe his original documentation, i will not change the feature-set of this module. all i will do is try to provide a combined footprint for a super matched pair / 2n3906 pair.
nordlead
fonik wrote:

i got the go from thomas henry to design and sell a 6x2 PCB of the 555-VCO.


screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo Thanks to both of you!

Not a big deal, but how about including a LED driver/out? I believe I saw one on one of your prototypes a while ago(?) - would you consider this a change of feature set?
fonik
would only make sense with a switch to change from VCO to LFO mode (switching on/off a 2nd timing cap as well as the LED). that needs a transistor, a cap, and a resistor only.

another thing that would not affect the PCBs but the wiring and the front panel only is the implementation of the sync: why not just implement one single switch to sync both VCOs (1st VCO square out to 2nd VCO sync on) ISO having two sync inputs?
fonik
BTW what would be your preferred through hole matched pair for the PNPs? i am matching my own 2n3906 pairs, so i am not up to date on this topic.
krisp14u
WAD PCB would be most appreciated
cillianjohn
I'm definitely in for a WAD pcb. I might be on for a panel too, depending on where the design ends up. Cheers! thumbs up

EDIT: 25.10.2013
I'd like a panel, a wad pcb and 2x fonik/TH 555 pcbs to (suit the panel), shipping to Finland.

Edit 01.12.2013

I'm going to have to pull out of this order, sorry for any inconvenience caused.
Isaiah
fonik wrote:
would only make sense with a switch to change from VCO to LFO mode (switching on/off a 2nd timing cap as well as the LED). that needs a transistor, a cap, and a resistor only.


Is it possible that might be included?
I understand if it's straying too far from TH's design.
fonik
it's a simple addition. hwoever, it depends on the panel, since i want to do the PCB for the offered panel actually.
monstrinho
fonik wrote:
it's a simple addition. hwoever, it depends on the panel, since i want to do the PCB for the offered panel actually.


It could be done with a pull-switch pot without changing the current panel design. thumbs up
jarvis
nevermind, my question was answered in the first post! very frustrating
monstrinho
Just a thought; it looks like there's room on the panel for input attenuators on the ring mod. When using ring mods, I often find that there are a wide range of sounds available if you attenuate one or the other of the channels, so I think this would be a useful addition.

(edit) Just realized I should have posted this to the panel design thread. Oops!
opsysbug
1x WAD Pcb here please. I'll go with panel if I have to...
ChrisR
I'm in for a WAD PCB for sure.
southphillysynths
Id be in for a pcb, maybe two Dead Banana
chinard
put me down for a set

(that would be 1WAD pcb + 2x 555 pcb + panel, Canada)
demian
Interested in 2 WAD pcb's.
LED-man
1 pcb + 1 panel to germany
oberkorn
"1 pcb, Sweden"

thanks!
terrafractyl
So as this thread gets longer and longer I'm starting to wonder, where are all you people getting your SAD1024 Chips?
Is there some unspoken of wiggler stash getting around??

Cause I would Dearly love to build a WAD, but I kind of wrote it off after spending a bit of time looking for em on google.

Yet it seems that somehow 30 odd people on here either have some chips safely tucked away or are willing to fork out 150$+ for a pair of chips that could end up being fakes...
????
confused!
Reese P. Dubin
I wonder the same. When the first run of PCBs happened much more quietly, there was a mad run on the internet for SADs. That had to be the biggest depletion in decades. Will there be enough for another round?
Isaiah
I've thought the same thing myself.
However, my plan is to see if I can replace the SAD1024s with MN3007s and additional circuitry on sub-boards.
One thing that will matter is how the SADs are used (each pair of 512-stage BBDs in series or parallel).
I don't know if it will be possible to retain all functionality, and I don't suppose it will sound like a WAD anymore, but if it works I don't mind hihi
Luka
I wonder how many SAD1024s actually still exist
This is run is definitely going to eat into that stock


Shame for anyone who needs to repair gear that uses them
bubblesound
i'd be up for a set, PCBs and face plate.
i'm a little concerned about the chip situation as well. does anyone know what serge is currently using in the WAD? they can't still be using SADs.
snufkin
bubblesound wrote:
i'd be up for a set, PCBs and face plate.
i'm a little concerned about the chip situation as well. does anyone know what serge is currently using in the WAD? they can't still be using SADs.


I wouldn't worry I have my lil supply I will be using for a WAD, I have been saving them for when the PCB becomes available for years and I assume most other interested parties have some in their parts bin

I believe serge still use the sad1024 as I don't believe (from my limited understanding) any other current production BBD or alternative tech can be clocked high enough for some of the interesting effects

if it was redesigned with a different chip it would still be a great module but not the same

I do feel bad for the vintage effects that wont be repairable once the last sad1024s run out but I would rather have a wad than repair an ADA flanger (which I have) ect which sound amazing but don't exploit the component to it's full potential IMO
Isaiah
snufkin
I very quickly realised it's unlikely I'll ever build a WAD.
I'm still interested in a PCB though, as I do think (without seeing the schematic) it will be possible to use MN3007s with additional circuitry.
Some functionality might be lost, and it won't be a WAD, but I'd be pretty happy with it whatever it is.
Apologies for repeating my thoughts from the previous page hihi
monstrinho
snufkin wrote:

I do feel bad for the vintage effects that wont be repairable once the last sad1024s run out but I would rather have a wad than repair an ADA flanger (which I have) ect which sound amazing but don't exploit the component to it's full potential IMO


I agree. It's kind of a shame that some gear will be left for dead when the chips fail. Who knows, though, maybe at some point someone will make an exact one for one clone of the SAD1024. Chip technology advances all the time, so it isn't something I'd consider impossible. I've managed to get a few SAD1024s through buying "as-is" semi-functional guitar pedals etc, thinking I would fix them up, but with the possibility of building a WAD, I'd much rather use them for that. The WAD is really unique in a way that an old MXR flanger (for example) never will be.

On another note, I've noticed by testing the Reticon chips in circuit that no two chips are exactly alike. They each have slightly different rolloff and distortion characteristics and definitely sound different when pushed to self oscillation. I'm just wondering if Serge has a procedure to select chips for the circuit? I doubt that any of us have the luxury of having enough chips on hand to be able to select two "perfect" ones, but I'm curious if anyone knows if this is something Serge does?
snufkin
monstrinho wrote:
snufkin wrote:

I do feel bad for the vintage effects that wont be repairable once the last sad1024s run out but I would rather have a wad than repair an ADA flanger (which I have) ect which sound amazing but don't exploit the component to it's full potential IMO


I agree. It's kind of a shame that some gear will be left for dead when the chips fail. Who knows, though, maybe at some point someone will make an exact one for one clone of the SAD1024. Chip technology advances all the time, so it isn't something I'd consider impossible. I've managed to get a few SAD1024s through buying "as-is" semi-functional guitar pedals etc, thinking I would fix them up, but with the possibility of building a WAD, I'd much rather use them for that. The WAD is really unique in a way that an old MXR flanger (for example) never will be.

On another note, I've noticed by testing the Reticon chips in circuit that no two chips are exactly alike. They each have slightly different rolloff and distortion characteristics and definitely sound different when pushed to self oscillation. I'm just wondering if Serge has a procedure to select chips for the circuit? I doubt that any of us have the luxury of having enough chips on hand to be able to select two "perfect" ones, but I'm curious if anyone knows if this is something Serge does?


yeah thats exactly my thoughts

however one caveat is that certain chips will never be remade as the type of processes and machines that carry them out are so obsolete there are no factories still tooled up to produce that type of circuit and it would prohibitively expensive to rebuild such a plant, not sure if the SAD fall in to this category but if not why have cool audio not reproduced some ? food for thought
bubblesound
Isaiah wrote:
snufkin
I'm still interested in a PCB though, as I do think (without seeing the schematic) it will be possible to use MN3007s with additional circuitry.
Some functionality might be lost, and it won't be a WAD, but I'd be pretty happy with it whatever it is.
Apologies for repeating my thoughts from the previous page hihi

the pins are different. you might be able to make some sort of daughter board but it's my understanding that the MN series is not at all compatible with the SADs
Isaiah
bubblesound

My post from the previous page:
Isaiah wrote:
I've thought the same thing myself.
However, my plan is to see if I can replace the SAD1024s with MN3007s and additional circuitry on sub-boards.
One thing that will matter is how the SADs are used (each pair of 512-stage BBDs in series or parallel).
I don't know if it will be possible to retain all functionality, and I don't suppose it will sound like a WAD anymore, but if it works I don't mind hihi


The additional circuitry includes CMOS buffers for the clock signals.
I've seen sub-boards made for using an MN3007 in a SAD1024-based pedal.
Because of the flexible nature of how the SAD can be configured with its dual delay lines, the sub boards have to be designed on a per application basis, as there is no "one size fits all" solution.
The clock might need its frequency doubling too.
jooks
Sorry not interested anymore.
e-grad
I'd like one pcb, no panel.
nordlead
Updated initial post - please read before posting any new (pre)orders.

For now only orders including a panel will be considered.

If you've already expressed your interest in a panel, please update your post to reflect how many fonik / Thomas Henry 555-vco pcbs (in Serge/CGS format w00t ) you would like - thanks!
snufkin
nordlead wrote:
Updated initial post - please read before posting any new (pre)orders.

For now only orders including a panel will be considered.

If you've already expressed your interest in a panel, please update your post to reflect how many fonik / Thomas Henry 555-vco pcbs (in Serge/CGS format w00t ) you would like - thanks!


ah thats a shame, if you do get the panel demand surely ken will order the extra WAD pcbs there seem to be more interest for

if so could you let us know thumbs up

thanks for your great efforts
jooks
Updated my post with 2 th/fonik pcbs. Thanks!
monstrinho
Just wondering, will there be a run of Serge format 111 Ring Mod PCBs for this, or is the plan to use the existing Fluxmonkey PCB? Also, what board(s) do you plan on using for the Random section?
nordlead
monstrinho, yes, the idea was to use the (existing) fluxmonkey 111 pcb. Just saw that it recently sold out, so I hope there will be another run or maybe Robert could even be convinced to do one in Serge format. If not, there are a couple of RING alternatives, the upcoming Ian Fritz 2Q/4Q looks like it could be nice substitute. Or CGS Active Real Ring Modulator. Since the design of the panel is not final yet, I'm also open for other suggestions as how to use the space... I'll probably remove the 111 and 555 labels on the panel so that there's more flexibility in terms of VCO / ring choices.

Re random: I'm hoping for the Serge Noise by maestro Ken Stone which would allow to build a Random Source by hooking the noise up to a SSG. The current design is basically a slighly reduced Random Source + (additional) SSG for sonic mayhem in 3" MY ASS IS BLEEDING . Alternatively these 3" could be filled by a DUSG.
cillianjohn
I updated my post too, with a yes for everything (panel, wad pcb, 2x 555 pcbs) thumbs up

Edit: to Finland
chinard
I updated mine to 1x panel, 1x wad, and 2x 555 to canada

i'll have all of the things!
tojpeters
updated original post. I'm in.
nordlead
Thanks guys, thumbs up I updated the list. Let me know if I missed someone/something...
synchromesh
Hi,

I'd be in for 1 panel, 1 WAD PCB and four 555 PCBs please, with shipping to England.

Cheers! thumbs up


EDIT: On second thoughts, I'm out - still keen, but the funds are no longer available... sad banana
monstrinho
Mine should read "+ 2 x 555" Thanks!

(edit) So, 2 x WAD, 2 x 555 and one panel.
harolddonnelly
How long will the pre order be open?
otoskope
Great panel. Sign me up for 1 panel, 2x555 VCO pcbs, 1 WAD pcb = the whole deal, I guess.
EDIT: Shipping to Sweden.
/Palle
bluedonkey
please ignore
nordlead
Here's some important note re the WAD pcb (the "WAD Terms and Conditions") - please don't take this lightly:

The WAD pcb is an unsupported project for experienced builders - Ken will provide the pcbs, but no support whatsoever.
The WAD has been built successfully using this pcb by more than one person, so it can be done. However it's entirely up to you to source the parts (like the 2x SAD1024A), make sure they are working/not fake and get this beast up and running.
Do not rely on Ken (or me) to help you fix any issues.


This run will happen only if Ken can rest 100% assured that he will not be contacted with any cries for help regarding the WAD.

Please do not register interest or place an order unless you are able and willing to accept this - even after you have possibly spent a few hundred bucks or euros for the parts. Thanks for your understanding.
otoskope
This sounds perfectly reasonable. I understand Ken's position. But I also assume that it's still perfectly OK to help each other out with potential WAD issues here on the forum! Rockin' Banana!

/Palle
nordlead
otoskope wrote:
I also assume that it's still perfectly OK to help each other out with potential WAD issues here on the forum! Rockin' Banana!

/Palle


Absolutely! - if this happens, I will setup a WAD building thread for stuff like 4558 vs NE5532N or silver mica vs ... w00t
snufkin
he nord shot u a pm about getting an extra wad pcb as at least one person on the list doesn't need one

would that be a possibility (don't worry if not, I also mailed ken to the same effect so maybe he will come through if he is not to busy)


thumbs up
nordlead
As I said before, this is a panel run that tries to make some pcbs (WAD, 555) available that are otherwise not or not in this format available. Hence this enormously depends on nice people (hopefully) making these pcbs to support this idea.

I will not worry about any "spare" pcbs until I know that they will actually come into existence. Panel orders will have priority, everything else is to be seen eventually.

Asking Ken directly about getting a WAD pcb now is probably the best way to make sure this run will never happen. sad banana

To put it another way: Ken doesn't need me to do a WAD pcb run. So the fact that he has not done (an official) one so far has a reason (stated in my post earlier today). So I suggest we respect that, otherwise we all waste our time here.
Isaiah
nordlead
Am I right in thinking that once you have enough folk committed to the panels, the PCB runs will be open to others?
No worries if not.
Apologies for being self-serving.

I'd like a WAD PCB purely for experimenting with MN3007 substitution.
Save the SAD1024s for the people who really want/need them thumbs up
But I'm probably most interested in the 555 VCOs.

I had an idea.
Maybe you could add a CGS Gate-to-Trigger PCB hardwired so you could ping the LPGs without using up an EG or DTG/DUSG.
Just a thought...
Isaiah
nordlead
Sorry Ralf, didn't see your last post before submitting mine.
Completely understand and respect everything you've said and I've refrained from pestering Ken or Matthias.

I wish I was in a position to commit to a panel, but my needs are very specific and I have an "End Game" strategy meh
nordlead
Isaiah No sweat, Alex - a WAD PCB purely for experimenting with MN3007 substitution sounds like it qualifies as a R&D project thumbs up Let's hope we make this run happen, I'm confident that this can be accommodated once we get there Guinness ftw!

I'll also look at the Gate-to-trigger idea, let's discuss this rather in the design thread, though.
snufkin
nordlead wrote:
As I said before, this is a panel run that tries to make some pcbs (WAD, 555) available that are otherwise not or not in this format available. Hence this enormously depends on nice people (hopefully) making these pcbs to support this idea.

I will not worry about any "spare" pcbs until I know that they will actually come into existence. Panel orders will have priority, everything else is to be seen eventually.

Asking Ken directly about getting a WAD pcb now is probably the best way to make sure this run will never happen. sad banana

To put it another way: Ken doesn't need me to do a WAD pcb run. So the fact that he has not done (an official) one so far has a reason (stated in my post earlier today). So I suggest we respect that, otherwise we all waste our time here.


well to be fair I had already contacted him about it after the first run but before this thread ad then again the other day, he gave the impression it was purely a demand thing (I could be wrong) I will refrain from contacting him again as I don't want to step on any-ones toes Mr. Green

but if he is doing a run for you surly he can tack a few on for people that don't want the panel, I don't see how this hinders this fine project in any way

I have just had these SADs sitting hear for a few years waiting for a pcb sad banana
PraxisCat
I am definitely interested, including the related PCBs.
monstrinho
nordlead wrote:
Here's some important note re the WAD pcb (the "WAD Terms and Conditions") - please don't take this lightly:

The WAD pcb is an unsupported project for experienced builders - Ken will provide the pcbs, but no support whatsoever.
The WAD has been built successfully using this pcb by more than one person, so it can be done. However it's entirely up to you to source the parts (like the 2x SAD1024A), make sure they are working/not fake and get this beast up and running.
Do not rely on Ken (or me) to help you fix any issues.


This run will happen only if Ken can rest 100% assured that he will not be contacted with any cries for help regarding the WAD.

Please do not register interest or place an order unless you are able and willing to accept this - even after you have possibly spent a few hundred bucks or euros for the parts. Thanks for your understanding.


Absolutely understood. My only concern is the calibration procedure. Are the original Serge docs for calibrating the WAD available anywhere?
otoskope
If nothing else, we have the paper building manual from 1983 for our big Serge system, including a WAD, at our university studios. It may include such instructions. I'll have a look next week when I'm back from holiday.
nordlead
monstrinho wrote:
My only concern is the calibration procedure. Are the original Serge docs for calibrating the WAD available anywhere?

From what I hear setup/calibration are indeed not easy. I haven't tried it yet, so I can't comment.
The pcb comes with some (original) documentation - that comprises a few pages on testing and setup.
frozenkore
I'd like to add 2x 555-pcbs to my order. Thanks!
tojpeters
Questions for Ken Stone- What does PCB stand for?
How do I solder?
Which one is my ass, which is my elbow?
Peake
I'll change my order...I'd buy one WAD PCB if I can pay by something other than paypal.
frozenkore
Quote:
This is unlikely if we don't get to at least 10 or 12 panels


Looks like we're at 12 right now. thumbs up

Which means.... this is officially happening? woah nanners
nordlead
harolddonnelly wrote:
How long will the pre order be open?


Sorry, missed this one. That depends on the design which in turn depends on availability of new modules like noise or UPAP (or alternatives). I'd hope to get the design final within 2 weeks or so - until then you can still sign up.
oberkorn
1 WAD PCB, Sweden
thanks w00t
otherunicorn
Re setup instructions - they do exist BUT they are for an earlier version of the WAD, so things aren't quite the same. Apparently the setting of the trimmers is very touchy, and the WADs go from not working to working well with the slightest adjustment. There is no "gradual" about it. Added to that, it is hit and miss as to whether the SAD chips you buy off ebay actually work, and they are so damn expensive.

What I can't afford is to be inundated with people asking me which diode to replace next because "it doesn't work". Yes, I really get a lot of these questions. So many in fact I find it hard to find time to do any new development, or even work on my own synth. People are also expecting me to repair their modules free of charge. What the hell? The few dollars I get a few dollars from the sale of the PCB doesn't even start to cover the original development costs, let alone repair costs! I'm meant to be doing this for fun, but there hasn't been too much fun of late.
Perhaps now you can understand why I feel I am being dragged into getting more WADs gone against my better judgement, and why I am putting up these "no support" messages.

If you are prepared to spend a couple hundred on assorted components and a "lottery ticket" bearing "CGS208" on it, you may get a working WAD for your efforts. Or you may not. If you can live with that, by all means proceed.


Ken
thebot
otherunicorn wrote:
I'm meant to be doing this for fun, but there hasn't been too much fun of late.


That's a shame to hear Ken, I know I appreciate what you're doing and my synth would be much poorer without the development work you've put in. The Serge PCBs have been giving me no end of fun recently. Got a DUSG fired up tonight, blows my mind the amount of uses for this module.
djs
Ken- just so you know, your efforts to bring these pcbs (not just the WAD, but everything you do) to life, is really appreciated. Even if you quit today and threw in the towel, the synth diy world is significantly better off for what you've done.
frozenkore
djs wrote:
Ken- just so you know, your efforts to bring these pcbs (not just the WAD, but everything you do) to life, is really appreciated. Even if you quit today and threw in the towel, the synth diy world is significantly better off for what you've done.


Indeed!
snufkin
djs wrote:
Ken- just so you know, your efforts to bring these pcbs (not just the WAD, but everything you do) to life, is really appreciated. Even if you quit today and threw in the towel, the synth diy world is significantly better off for what you've done.


exactly and I don't think any one here expects support from you for this venture thumbs up

I appreciate everything you provide for the diy community

no sweat if it gets too much work we're not worthy
nordlead
Ken, thanks a lot for clarifying this. I think everyone here understands and respects this - sad to hear that the fun part has been missing lately. Also this is definitely not intended to jeopardize any of your CGS or personal projects - if this were the case I would indeed rather not go forward with this.

If everyone, however, can acknowledge the "lottery factor" (i.e. even when looking at a non-working board after having spent a couple of hundred bucks on the components) this raises the question if those of us who either have built one or will try their WAD fate in this run can and are willing to commit to support others in their efforts. This is one of the strengths of this community and very likely it well be needed here more than in the average project.
dmitri
Please 2 SAD 1024 very frustrating Dead Banana d'oh! Dead Banana zombie fap fap fap... WAD)
synchromesh
Not that I was planning on asking Ken for help, but budget constraints and a recent large synth repair bill mean that I have to pull out of this project. Sorry about that.

Cheers,

John :^P
nordlead
synchromesh wrote:
Not that I was planning on asking Ken for help, but budget constraints and a recent large synth repair bill mean that I have to pull out of this project. Sorry about that.

Cheers,

John :^P


Too bad, no problem, removed you from the list.
richard
it is good Ken said it. My STS WAD is great but it is also the most delicate and cantankerous thing I own. After the last time I will never do a gig with it again! I predict these things are gonna drive people nuts.

be warned!
thetwlo
so, not only for this,(have my 1024s!) but these are far superior to the MN chips/ clones. Can they not be made any longer? This were popular in fx pedals it seems there's demand. The SAD1024 and 512, too many issues with the 4096? anyway, is it possible? I bet we could get a kickstarter going.
dmitri
I think some one would have to reverse engineer the IC , how about petitioning COOL Audio on a Muff thread ?
thetwlo
dmitri wrote:
COOL Audio on a Muff thread ?

shit, dmitri, i owe you a response.... FB...sorry.
isn't COOL Audio Berhinger? they seem to do what they want, and it's hard to justify need for something so long gone. Most specs are the same as the Panasonic BBD clones, most... so that seems like a hard sell. Perhaps EHX may have a vested interest with more authentic re-issues.???
dmitri
WOAH them dyes could possibly exist in some south bay warehouse ?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticon
***edit holy shi click EG&G & find out that the Reticon Dyes we seek are owned by BLACK OPS... FUCK !! This comes one day after reading Leon Theremin admit he was KGB FUUUUCKING KNARLY
nordlead
I believe I read somewhere that the fab doing the BBD chips was shut down and the equipment is gone, so I guess it's highly unlikely that production could be revived without investing a 8-digit figure...

Anyway, maybe the best place to discuss this is and any conspiracies behind indeed a separate thread.

you kids get off my lawn
gregwar
pm'd

1x panel, 2x 555 vco pcb, 1x wad pcb

canada
dmitri
ah sorry , im still up for asking cool audio & am still going to buy some WAD pcbs even though i have no source for the chips. they will come along some day.
nordlead
Updated the list - Looks like this will actually happen w00t

Will try to finalize the design by the end of this week ...
nordlead
Just posted a new draft with some changes in the design thread:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1349997#1349997

I appreciate your feedback (especially of those who are on the list) Guinness ftw!
harolddonnelly
I'll take

1 - panel, 1 - WAD, 2 - 555 to Canada

If its not too late!
nordlead
harolddonnelly wrote:
I'll take

1 - panel, 1 - WAD, 2 - 555 to Canada

If its not too late!


No problem, added you to the list w00t
harolddonnelly
Awesome thanks, I'll keep an eye on the thread for payment!
Low-Gain
3 set panel + 3 WAD + 12 Fonik/TH 555 VCO CGS pcb, USA
nordlead
To facilitate planning of the 555-VCO pcb run for fonik I'm considering to include a second panel (LA BESTIA) in this run - please see the updated first post.

Here's a first draft (monting holes etc. will follow ;-):



pcbs for Serge Noise, Serge Variable Q VCF and Serge UPAP will become available from CGS Cat Girl Synth MY ASS IS BLEEDING
pcbs for fonik's 555 vco can be ordered together with the panel(s) SlayerBadger!

So this is an interest check that won't run longer than the WAD panel order (which is almost full), to see if we can get to 10-20 Bestia panels. If you are (firmly) up for this, please post your interest/pre-order in this thread as well or update your post if you already signed up for a WAD panel - Thanks!

Ralf
Setherian
I will take a LA Bestia panel, Foniks PCBs and a WAD pcb.

Now I have two suggestions:

1.A trigger button on the "random source" would be nice, I mean who doesnt want to make magic with just a button? smile

2.If there is space, and I bet there is, why not go 2xVCS ? Seriously, having independent VC for rise and fall is so so so awesome! I have a DIY bud with single modules (you can take and swap like euro, etc), with a dual VCS and Im using only 3 HPs (just like the DUSG) and its just great!

But anyways, Im into this one for sure!

Chris
nordlead
Chris, put you on the list and sent you a pm.

I can add the trigger button if you guys wish (didn't see it as essential), I'd provide a hole for one of those fancy C&K switch buttons (like in the Serge sequencer) which I believe are 611-8125-241, 611-702501201 and 611-752703000 at Mouser. I don't have one lying around, from what I see the hole should be .25" (6.35mm) - maybe someone can confirm.

Also, I received a couple of pm's regarding the sold-out Wellenreiter panel. Since the factory still has the files, I could do a second run if 6+ people are interested.
richard
very tempted - but haven't quite weakened yet! hihi
nordlead
Richard, probably mixed up a few jacks, but maybe this helps hihi

microfauna
Setherian wrote:


2.If there is space, and I bet there is, why not go 2xVCS ? Seriously, having independent VC for rise and fall is so so so awesome! I have a DIY bud with single modules (you can take and swap like euro, etc), with a dual VCS and Im using only 3 HPs (just like the DUSG) and its just great!


Not classic Serge layout but I think the above as well. Much more useful to have independant VC Rise and Fall rather than the Rise/Both/Fall switch.
Maybe it would require an extra attenuverting circuit if it's not on the DUSG pcb. (EDIT maybe fonik attenuverting chick let)

doobedy
Can anybody explain what exactly that stereo mixer is on "La Bestia"?

Otherwise it looks like a pretty amazing self-contained Buchla/Serge hybrid. Very, very cool.
oldenjon
doobedy wrote:
Can anybody explain what exactly that stereo mixer is on "La Bestia"?

Serge DCSM
nordlead
oldenjon wrote:
doobedy wrote:
Can anybody explain what exactly that stereo mixer is on "La Bestia"?

Serge DCSM


Exactly - behind the panel it's the Universal Equal Power Audio Processor (UPAP) like in the WAD panel, just a different implementation (at least that's the plan). Ken is working on the diagrams, so hopefully both setups can be confirmed pretty soon. hyper
PraxisCat
You can put me down for one of the beast as well, and any necessary PCBs outside stuff from CGS.

(Just realized between your stuff and the dmitri stuff, the ian fritz panels, and the nonlinear stuff, I am going to have an awesome 4u setup once all built and acquired.)
Isaiah
The Bad Producer has a pretty good Dual VC Slope layout here:

microfauna
Isaiah wrote:
The Bad Producer has a pretty good Dual VC Slope layout here:



Would ba shame to lose the logarithmic envelope shape if you don't have attenuverters on the CV ins.
doobedy
nordlead wrote:
oldenjon wrote:
doobedy wrote:
Can anybody explain what exactly that stereo mixer is on "La Bestia"?

Serge DCSM


Exactly - behind the panel it's the Universal Equal Power Audio Processor (UPAP) like in the WAD panel, just a different implementation (at least that's the plan). Ken is working on the diagrams, so hopefully both setups can be confirmed pretty soon. hyper


Thanks. So it's just a final pair of VCAs with panning. That feels like it would be perfect as the final vanilla out for a bigger system, but he WAD layout looks a lot more fun to me smile
Isaiah
microfauna
The CGS75 PCB already has inverting attenuators for both Rise and Fall.
http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs75_vcs.html
thumbs up
microfauna
Isaiah wrote:
microfauna
The CGS75 PCB already has inverting attenuators for both Rise and Fall.
http://cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs75_vcs.html
thumbs up


I was supposing the CGS114 DUSG was going to be used.
nordlead
microfauna wrote:

I was supposing the CGS114 DUSG was going to be used.


Indeed, that's the plan. However when Setherian suggested to go 2x VCS I assumed he is referring to the CGS ( Bananalogue ) pcbs (= CGS75 as Isaiah pointed out)... CGS75 seems to do the trick nicely, but requires stacking the boards (and additional $30 compared to the price of a DUSG pcb). For shallow boats stacking might be challenging, but then again it's probably needed anyway since the pcbs currently take up more than 16".

As far as I can see in the DUSG docs/schematic there's no provision for separate VC ins, so the question is if it's worth going 2x CGS75 instead of 1x CGS114 (DUSG) ... on the panel it's no big deal, indeed, so I'm happy to go either way.
Isaiah
La Bestia seems to be lacking mixing solutions.
Perhaps the Dual Gate could feature a Mix output and Aux input.
Only requires a single CGS04 PCB.
This would allow the Dual Gate module to be used as a 3-channel mixer.
nordlead
Isaiah wrote:
La Bestia seems to be lacking mixing solutions.
Perhaps the Dual Gate could feature a Mix output and Aux input.
Only requires a single CGS04 PCB.
This would allow the Dual Gate module to be used as a 3-channel mixer.


Alex, you are right re the mixing solutions - at least when looking at La Bestia as a standalone unit. From this point on it's all a weighing one module or set of holes against another one. The Aux In + Mix out in the LPG section is a great idea though thumbs up , as this would (only) mean squeezing 2 jacks in between the rows (or leaving some of the Noise Source out). When designing the Wellenreiter, however, I was surprised that the strong majority was opposed to doing stuff in between columns and would rather leave it out for a clean grid ... not much love for a ring like in the Animoo or noise like in the Animal. I'll probably put it in and see how it looks...
nordlead
Finalizing the design of the WAD panel ("Sturm und Drang")...

fluxmonkey
nordlead wrote:
Isaiah wrote:
La Bestia seems to be lacking mixing solutions.
Perhaps the Dual Gate could feature a Mix output and Aux input.
Only requires a single CGS04 PCB.
This would allow the Dual Gate module to be used as a 3-channel mixer.


Alex, you are right re the mixing solutions - at least when looking at La Bestia as a standalone unit. From this point on it's all a weighing one module or set of holes against another one. The Aux In + Mix out in the LPG section is a great idea though thumbs up , as this would (only) mean squeezing 2 jacks in between the rows (or leaving some of the Noise Source out). When designing the Wellenreiter, however, I was surprised that the strong majority was opposed to doing stuff in between columns and would rather leave it out for a clean grid ... not much love for a ring like in the Animoo or noise like in the Animal. I'll probably put it in and see how it looks...


i'm not particularly religious about the grid, i've got an extra "all" out on my quad LPB, squeezed in between and slightly below the 4 outs, looks fine and does give an extra mixer, with VC... nice.

i'm not clear about the need for a S/H in the noise section of the Bestia, tho--seems like you already have that in the Smooth/Stepped? and if so, i think dropping it and adding an aux in and mix out to the LPG makes a lot of sense.
harolddonnelly
I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but just a thought...

On the WAD panel, why don't we just use the same Stereo Mixer from the La Bestia? Just trying to wrap my head around the current mixer on the WAD panel


Thanks!
nordlead
harolddonnelly wrote:

On the WAD panel, why don't we just use the same Stereo Mixer from the La Bestia? Just trying to wrap my head around the current mixer on the WAD panel


Well, I guess simply because:

srsly never

4 VCAs seems to be too good to be true - the basic idea is to preserve as much from the original UPAP (that was 4" wide) in 2" - the DCSM (using the same pcbs) is indeed an alternative / fallback. Once Ken finished the diagrams/docs this can be finally seen - so both is preliminary (even though it looks like both ideas should be viable screaming goo yo ).

Why would you prefer the DCSM?
tojpeters
there is a block diagram on the design thread for the wad mixer
Isaiah
nordlead
A few (personal, very subjective) thoughts on Strum und Drang:

VCO
*Is the LED driver hardwired to a particular output?
If so I'd add a line indicating which one and maybe move the LED up or down 0.375" to be inline with the bananas.
*One thing you could do is swap the positions of the Frequency control and Sync banana.
If you don't mind losing the "FREQ" text, it might afford space for a slightly large control (0.75" diameter e.g. Davies 1910CS).
*The range switch seems counter-intuitive with High on the left and Low on the right.

DUAL GATES
*Again, adding a Mix out and Aux in on the "inbetween" grid spaces just seems like a useful, easy mod.

SMOOTH/STEPPED
*Proposed layout for left side, top to bottom:
LED
RATE
VC RATE
VC RATE IN
VC RATE IN
VC RATE
RATE LED
Although it's a departure from the original, I think it affords a little more wiggle room - controls and bananas kept apart.
*If you intend to patch the SSG (with the Noise S&H Source output) as a Random Voltage Generator, I believe the SSG needs not only the 0-5V, but the +/-10V Coupler output.
If you do this and rearrange the left column layout, you could move the S&H Source output there to maintain symmetry.
Coupler and +/-10V Coupler outputs arranged on inbetween spaces of the SSG grid above and below the current Coupler output.

STEREO MIXER
*I'd put all the VC bananas together in a 2x2 grid and the same with the audio inputs.


Again, just my own personal thoughts.
I hope they are of some help.
Please feel completely free to ignore them! hihi
It's very easy to just mumble away, you're the one doing the hard work and it looks great by the way! thumbs up
otherunicorn
Maybe compact the WAD into 7 rows, and move the RING under it? Swap the delay and feedback clusters, and the WAD could easily go to 6 rows, giving space for 6 jacks under it. not sure how you would use the extra jacks though...
monstrinho
otherunicorn wrote:
Maybe compact the WAD into 7 rows, and move the RING under it? Swap the delay and feedback clusters, and the WAD could easily go to 6 rows, giving space for 6 jacks under it. not sure how you would use the extra jacks though...


If you were to compact the WAD and lose the ring mod you would free up an entire row. This would allow the full three width version of the UPAP to fit on the panel and open up a lot of functionality. Personally I love ring mods, but I have three or four of them in other panels so I would not miss having one here. Apart from that, I'm not entirely sure what you're thinking of with the noise and SSG section. What board would be used for the noise? Why the s & h when the SSG already does this? Just trying to understand how this would be connected behind the panel and what your reasoning behind it is. Maybe the Buchla 208 Random Source might be a better option here?
nordlead
I have indeed thought about compacting the WAD (either horizontally or vertically) - already have a 2" design. Not sure I want to go that way, though - especially how to fill the freed space. One option I find quite tempting is the CGS67 Active Real Ring - guess I'm a ring mod junkie (as well ;-) - since the 111 pcb (which I also love in spite of or because of the distortion) seems not to be available...

Another idea could be to free 6 spaces underneath the WAD for a Scaling Buffer with 2 inputs ... (i.e. half of a CGS81)

Too many great choices to pick from!

monstrinho: panel is designed to use the upcoming Serge Noise from Cat Girl Synth Idea is to allow patching Noise + SSG as a Random Source (or simply use the SSG as it is and have a noise source).

Anyway, to sync this run with foniks 555-pcb run, both orders (WAD panel and La Bestia) will close in 2 weeks at the latest - by then the design will be final final w00t
drip.feed
Hi Ralph

I will take:

1 x La Bestia panel
1 x Edelweiss panel
2 x 555 VCO pcbs


Thanks. thumbs up
kons
I think that 'Bestia' panel is calling me to join the world of 4U diy...

So what total price would I be looking at for the panel, the two 555 pcbs, and all the needed cgs pcbs?

But really given the gateway nature of this drug it would seem to me that it would be in everyone here's interest to make a tonne of these and hand them out free over in the eurorack forum... Mr. Green Expanding the user/addict base.




I am pretty much sure you can put me down for:

1x La Bestia Panel, 2x555 VCO pcbs
nordlead
køns wrote:
I think that 'Bestia' panel is calling me to join the world of 4U diy...

So what total price would I be looking at for the panel, the two 555 pcbs, and all the needed cgs pcbs?

But really given the gateway nature of this drug it would seem to me that it would be in everyone here's interest to make a tonne of these and hand them out free over in the eurorack forum... Mr. Green Expanding the user/addict base.


Not a bad idea - maybe we should apply for EU funding - too much money going into agriculture hihi

Price of the panel(s) is not finally determined yet - La Bestia and Edelweiss will only happen if we get to about 10 pieces each - then a panel is expected to be around 70-80€ + 9 € for shipping worldwide, a pair of 555-pcbs is only € 15 - I will ship the panels together with the 555 pcbs. Maybe this is an option also for the Timbre pcbs and the CGS91 rails -
all the other pcbs you'd have to order from Ken Cat Girl Synth
djs
put me down for one of the edelweiss panels smile
nordlead
djs wrote:
put me down for one of the edelweiss panels smile


thanks, I just did w00t

- list updated -
djs
just a note to anyone on the fence about this- the wellenreiter panel that nordlead put together before this came out really nice. I wish I could get more panels, but just don't have the funds to do so.
nordlead
djs wrote:
just a note to anyone on the fence about this- the wellenreiter panel that nordlead put together before this came out really nice. I wish I could get more panels, but just don't have the funds to do so.


Thanks, djs! thumbs up
Synesthesia
Hi Ralph

I will take:

1 x La Bestia panel

2 x 555 VCO pcbs


Thankssssssss It's motherfucking bacon yo
monstrinho
OK, please change my order to:

1 x WAD panel
2 x WAD pcb
4 x 555 pcb

I'm in the US, BTW.

thanks.
decaying.sine
If you can do WAD PCBs only, then I'll take 4 of those.
Synesthesia
I am updating my order !

1 x La Bestia panel
1 x Edelweiss panel
2 x 555 VCO pcbs

I am located in Ireland smile
mandzaro
I'll take

1x La Bestia panel
1 x Edelweiss panel
2 x 555 VCO pcbs

Located in Switzerland

Thanks
nordlead
Edelweiss definitely has to go to Switzerland hihi
bookends
after trying really hard to convince myself otherwise, I'm game for a WAD panel, WAD PCB, and 2x 555 PCBs

w00t
BBlack
Can someone give an idea as to what rare parts are necessary to complete a WAD board? I know there's an IC in there...
oldenjon
BBlack wrote:
Can someone give an idea as to what rare parts are necessary to complete a WAD board? I know there's an IC in there...


From what I can see:
2x SAD1024 (extremely rare / expensive)
2x CA3280
2x CA3080
BBlack
oldenjon wrote:
BBlack wrote:
Can someone give an idea as to what rare parts are necessary to complete a WAD board? I know there's an IC in there...


From what I can see:
2x SAD1024 (extremely rare / expensive)
2x CA3280
2x CA3080


Ah ha, I see it now. Thanks.

I'm so very interested in a board, but I can't find any trace of a SAD1024 available anywhere... seems like one would have to have some kind of elite electronics contacts to get a hold of this chip. Certainly those who have sourced them won't be revealing such info anytime soon...

Is the WAD a very realistic project?
drip.feed
BBlack wrote:
I'm so very interested in a board, but I can't find any trace of a SAD1024 available anywhere... seems like one would have to have some kind of elite electronics contacts to get a hold of this chip. Certainly those who have sourced them won't be revealing such info anytime soon...

Is the WAD a very realistic project?


Unless you have a stash of those SAD1024s, or a Wiggler is willing to sell you some, then no...I don't think it is realistic. I am in the same boat. I chose instead to build LA BESTIA and EDELWEISS since they will make a great Sergey starter-system. If I could score some SAD1024s then I could easily be talked into a WAD too. I wonder if there are acceptable substitutes for the SAD1024s?? hmmm.....

Now my only worry is that there won't be enough takers for LA BESTIA or EDELWEISS and they will never be made. cry
harolddonnelly
Hey I'd just like to edit my order,

I'd like to add 1 x La Bestia panel and 2 x 555 VCO pcbs

Also I tracked down a WAD PCB so I won't need that.

Revised order
1 x La Bestia panel
1 x WAD panel
4 x 555 VCO pcbs

To Canada

Thanks Nordlead!
otherunicorn
BBlack wrote:

I'm so very interested in a board, but I can't find any trace of a SAD1024 available anywhere... seems like one would have to have some kind of elite electronics contacts to get a hold of this chip. Certainly those who have sourced them won't be revealing such info anytime soon...

Is the WAD a very realistic project?


The only source of SAD1024 is scalpers on Ebay. The fact that I refuse to sell WAD pcbs from the CGS web site, and will not offer any support should tell you what you are getting into. If you are not an experienced builder with the ability to troubleshoot things yourself, you would be advised to stay well away from it.

Ken
jooks
Updated my post. Sorry but no panel for me. Thanks anyway!
Reese P. Dubin
I have a nearly 100% success rate for the last 7 years. The WAD is the one thing that has brought me to my knees again and again. Listen to Ken, only the mad should apply.
nordlead
Reese P. Dubin wrote:
Listen to Ken, only the mad should apply.


I agree!

Madness is the only qualification I have for getting into this hihi

As most of you have probably seen, I've started a WAD building thread - the idea (hope) is that once a couple of wigglers hae their pcbs stuffed, experiences and measurements can be compared and maybe the fog will lift a bit ...

I'm about to close the order in a couple of days, the reason it's still open is to see if there's enough interest to do the La Bestia (and possibly Edelweiss) run at the same time, which would make handling a bit easier. Right now it looks like La Bestia would be good to go if the number goes up a bit , Edelweiss is probably to be decided later ...
monstrinho
Just one question; shouldn't the feedback pot be bipolar?

(Edit:feedback pot on the WAD)
nordlead
monstrinho wrote:
Just one question; shouldn't the feedback pot be bipolar?

(Edit:feedback pot on the WAD)


You're right (of course), it's a bit of a space issue - the bipolar swoosh doesn't leave space for the (full) "FEEDBACK" label - will try to come up with something...
nordlead
By the way - finished the Roman's Timbre today and find it amazing w00t

This definitely has to be in STURM & DRANG (= WAD panel) ...
noodles_on_sauce
I will take 1 La Bestia panel , 2 555 PCB's and if possibly 1 wad PCB to the east coast US
noodles_on_sauce
On second thought, no Wad PCB for me. i figured id pay someone to build it sometime in the future, but it would probably cost me near what it would from STS anyway.
notimeforlove
I'm really liking these panels, they'll go great with my BOCGS. put me down for

1x La Bestia, 1x Edelweiss, 2x 555
nordlead
notimeforlove wrote:
I'm really liking these panels, they'll go great with my BOCGS. put me down for

1x La Bestia, 1x Edelweiss, 2x 555


Thanks! Updated the list

w00t
harolddonnelly
Any news on when you plan on you are going to go into production/ need payment?
nordlead
harolddonnelly wrote:
Any news on when you plan on you are going to go into production/ need payment?


Trying to figure out the practical details - like whether to order 1 panel (WAD), 2 (WAD + Bestia) or all 3 (including Edelweiss) at the same time...

Initially I thought doing them in parallel would save some shipping cost but it turns out that the rate I used to ship the Wellenreiter is only up to 500g - one full panel in 2mm is 400g so adding pcbs and cardboard for packaging will probably cross that threshold ... for up to 1kg it's a bit more than 12€, that could work for 2 panels depending on how many pcbs and packaging...
Going down to 1.6mm panel strength would bring the weight down a bit, but I like the 2mm (tank strength ;-)

So the shipping cost can not really be brought down by shipping more than one panel (gor the packaging and shipping it does make a difference, though!), most likely I'll go ahead (pretty soon) with WAD + La Bestia and give Edelweiss some more time ...

Re payment, I do not like to get money upfront, however production cost for alle 3 panels will be a 4-digit € figure so I'd like to be sure of the actual interest before placing that order. Maybe I leave it up to you guys to pay either an advance or the full price before I place the order - should I not be able to ship for whatever reason, I would simply refund via paypal. I'm aware that there have been quite negative experiences with orders paid upfront, so I'd actually prefer not to take any money before shipping but it would be nice to have some kind of comfort that I don't run into last minute cancellations ...

Appreciate your thoughts (in particular of those who are on the list) Guinness ftw!
monstrinho
Please keep the panel thickness at 2mm. Anything thinner than that could be susceptible to warping. It's worth paying a little more in shipping to have something built to last.
drip.feed
Yep...2mm panel thickness please!

Re: pre-pay or post-pay: I am happy to pay either way and, short of a family disaster, I will definitely take a bestia and edelweiss.

If you are worried about people dropping out then take money up front. If you definitely won't let them down (about deliveries or refunds) then I think that's reasonable.

And it might be wise to get money off people before they get their post-Christmas VISA bills eek!
Synesthesia
2mm, and i prefer to pay upfront.
monstrinho
I also have no problem paying in advance. If you could give us a little advance warning as to when you'll need payment, that would be great (it's a little difficult planning finances this time of year).
Zeno
Hi!

I'm interested in: 1 La Bestia, 2x 555

Thanks!
nordlead
Glad you guys prefer 2mm as well thumbs up

Looks like the order could be placed next week, that would also be the relevant time for any payments in advance, will provide details in the net couple of days. On the other hand, if you guys prefer to keep this open till beginning of Jan (i.e. post-Xmas), this is not a problem either - the factory guys want to have 10 (working days), even though they actually need only a few days, so due to holidays shipping the panels will most likely not happen in December anyway. Beginning of Jan seems realistic unless the factory surprises us in a positive way.

Zeno, added you to the list.
jarvis
I would be in for 1x La Bestia and 2x 555 PCBs.
djs
sorry- i need to drop out of the edelweiss panel, as i'm trying to cut back on my DIY. So.. 0 for me sad banana
Zeno
So, I'll get an Edelweiss too.

Just a few considerations:

- Is there any drawback in using the DUSG design with individual modulation for the CV Rise and Fall? I heard this module uses only one trimmer whereas the original DUSG has individual trimmers for each module, is this true?

- Can the small 555 oscillator in the La Bestia panel be mounted in a 2,5" deep rack?

- The La Bestia seems to be lacking mixing options, or at least something that could invert the phase for feedback.

- Could the Dual Gate module have a ressonance pot?

- And lastly, instead of the Stereo Mixer in the Edelweiss panel, why not add a Quadrature Oscillator in it's place? Is there a PCB of it for sale?

Sorry for coming late to the party with new issues, just trying to make it better for everyone.
nordlead
A quick update:

As you've probably seen in the WAD building thread, the WAD (not unexpectedly) turns out to be a tough nut to crack.

Ken and I agree it's best to get some more visibility and clarification on the WAD build before actually starting the panel run in order to (hopefully) reduce potential confusion and disappointment a bit. So there's a slight delay, but we think this is in everyone's interest.

To be clear, there will still be lots of risk and potential for disappointment in any case (I've come to understand the meaning of Ken's warning words by now!) ...

Also, if you happen to have a WAD pcb and started or even completed the build, please share your experiences in the WAD building thread help - thanks!
noodles_on_sauce
I can pay in advance if needed, and prefer the thicker panel.

I too would like to see the stereo mixer switched out for something else , but if no one else agrees its OK as is, ill just wire something else in there anyway.
chinard
Actually put me down for 1x La Bestia and 2x 555 PCBs
You can keep me on the list for WAD panel whenever that happens
nordlead
Apparently I forgot to post a picture of Edelweiss in the first post of this tread, so here it is (as a new draft as well):



As requested, I removed the Stereo Mixer in Edelweiss and replaced it by a Serge Smooth / Stepped Generator (SSG) - this should allow for some serious sonic mayhem w00t

Please post any suggestions / feedback re module selection in the design thread to avoid parallel discussions.

Also, I can confirm that any of these panels will be done in the same quality as the Wellenreiter, i.e. in 2mm anodized aluminum - I got a sample here and I'm confident it will satisfy any wishes re stability.
PraxisCat
So add me in for an Edelweiss.
noodles_on_sauce
after some thought, i decided i should keep my CV stuff in the banana realm


Please change my order from

1X la bestia , 2X 555 VCO

to

1X edelweiss
nordlead
Based on your comments I've been juggling some ideas for La Bestia, see a fresh draft here ...
rekem1000
1x Bestia 2x 555 pcb
1x Edelweiss
to Australia

thanks
Reality Checkpoint
Please can you mark me down for:

1 x La Bestia panel and 2 x 555 PCB; and

1 x Edelweiss panel.

To be shipped to the UK.

Many thanks for doing this.
nordlead
Updated the list - let me know if I missed anything.
frozenkore
Hi, I'd like to update mine:

1x La Bestia, 1x Edelweiss, 2x 555 pcb, USA

Thanks!
Brian
fluxmonkey
i'm in for 1 x La Bestia panel, 2 x 555 PCB; and 1 x Edelweiss panel.... please & thankee

edit: to ohio, us
nordlead
Hope this is not too early, but as you may have seen in the WAD building thread, it looks like the WAD can be tamed after all. w00t

Ideally there will have some updated setup info pretty soon and we can get this run going ...

I've also updated the pics in the first post to reflect the latest drafts (from the design thread), not sure if everyone has seen the changes.
jarvis
I'll have to withdraw my interest on the La Bestia panel for now until the design is settled on. I really liked the layout when I posted interest but it has since changed.

Maybe you should hold off on 'interest check' or 'order' until the design is actually finalized? Otherwise this seems a bit premature...
drip.feed
jarvis wrote:
I'll have to withdraw my interest on the La Bestia panel for now until the design is settled on. I really liked the layout when I posted interest but it has since changed.

What changed, jarvis? What do you no longer like?
nordlead
drip.feed wrote:
jarvis wrote:
I'll have to withdraw my interest on the La Bestia panel for now until the design is settled on. I really liked the layout when I posted interest but it has since changed.

What changed, jarvis? What do you no longer like?


Yes, would also like to hear that, jarvis - guess this is the basic problem of democracy. I'm just trying to pick up any suggestions that seem to make sense, knowing that it's impossible to make everyone 100% happy...

I believe this somewhat iterative process makes more sense than me deciding upfront.

However I think the attractiveness of La Bestia has increased over time, even though building might not have become any easier...
jarvis
I understand that it's an iterative/democratic process, that's why I don't think there should be an interest/order post for it until it is more finalized. I'll post some thoughts in the design thread to help keep these worlds separate.
rekem1000
Sorry I might have to revise my order too, I like the old Bestia layout better.
I'll see how things pan out.
frozenkore
Oops, I missed re-adding the WAD panel. I'd still like one of those too, thanks!

Brian
the83
1x Bestia
2x 555 pcb

thanks!
nordlead
Quick update: Ken Cat Girl Synth has updated the WAD docs, my board seems to be working now, so the fog around the WAD board has lifted a bit w00t

fonik is looking into some great ideas re the 555-VCO (which might have some effect on the panel layouts), so ideally the designs can now be finalized within a week or so.

In the meantime I've been thinking about reducing the overlap between the WAD panel and La Bestia bit - some wigglers (including myself) intend to build both. So one idea is to drop the Dual LPG in the WAD panel (it's still in La Bestia) in favor of a Res EQ. Also, having the second VCO reduced to 1" (like in La Bestia) allows to have the Phaser plus the Audio Mixer (which is on the Phaser pcb) for feedback experiments etc. Here's what this would look like:



This is simply an alternative draft, if you like this better (as I do), I'm happy to go this route. Hope I don't have to set up a poll over this, so I'm happy to have your views Guinness ftw!

- please discuss this alternative in the design thread (unless you want me to take you off the list if this one happens!)
nordlead
Looks like we're almost there w00t - here's the plan:

I will start with the Edelweiss Panel as it contains only one pcb that's not already available (Serge Noise, upcoming from CGS). Will finalize the design over the next few days and post it here, Edelweiss orders will then close on Jan 24! Production will take about 2 weeks, if everything goes well (as it did with Wellenreiter), I will then have the other 2 panels go in production.

As a minor change I intend to include the "hot" coupler out in the SSG so that it can be patched as a Random Voltage Generator.

(Assuming the number of panels ordered stays where it is now) price per panel will be € 88 shipped (worldwide). I don't want any money until I hold the panels in my hand, but if anyone on the list decides not to go forward with this, please let me know before the order closes.

If you signed up for Edelweiss, please let me know if you would like a pair of CGS91 shipped along with the panel (to save some shipping cost).

frozenkore
Sounds great!

nordlead wrote:
If you signed up for Edelweiss, please let me know if you would like a pair of CGS91 shipped along with the panel (to save some shipping cost).



I'll take one Guinness ftw!
mandzaro
A pair of CGS91 for me


Cheers
Martin
monstrinho
FWIW, I prefer the WAD panel with the LPG (mainly since I'm not going to build the Eidelweiss panel, so overlap is not a problem for me). I can live with the Res EQ there, though, so not a deal breaker.
Synesthesia
a pair of CGS91 for me Sir.
nordlead
New version of Edelweiss - if everyone is happy with this, it should be possible to go into production by Friday, Jan 24:



What's new? Gate Sequencer is now closer to the vintage Serge layout and has 3mm LEDs, ExtADSR replaced by a second Dual Universal Slope Generator (DUSG).

PCBs required (available from CGS): 2x CGS114 (DUSG), CGS81 (Dual Processor), CGS89 (Gate Sequencer), CGS36 (Pulse Divider and Boolean Logic), 2x CGS92 (Serge Smooth and Stepped Generator), CGS Serge Noise (not released yet).

I used to have a hard time deciding between a Quadslope, Gator and Mayhem, this hopefully solves the problem...

Let me know if this works for you Guinness ftw!
Synesthesia
I did like the extended ADSR since i wasn't going with the WAD ... but I'll live smile

What's with the WAD btw ? all working now ??
nordlead
Synesthesia wrote:


What's with the WAD btw ? all working now ??


Board 1 seems to work fine (haven't done a lot of testing), tried to calibrate board 2 today (not fully wired), calibration seems harder this time(?!), Delay B much weaker than A, trimmers behave differently - more to sort out, I guess ...
Jonachi
Sign me up for an Edewiess panel and CGS91.

THanks.
notimeforlove
Love the new design. I have a Marsh panel I'm still working on, but that's where I'll get my EADSRs, I'm still in for an Edelweiss, but I'll pass on the cgs boards.
PraxisCat
Sign me up for a single Edelweiss panel and any needed PCBs I cannot get from Ken.
nordlead
Thanks, I updated the list. Please confirm any Edelweiss orders (+CGS91 if you need it) if you have not already done so here in this thread or by PM - so I can check the numbers.

Praxiscat, you can order the CGS91 from Ken directly but due to its size you save some shipping cost when I ship it with the panel (and you only get the pcbs from Ken). Either way is fine w00t
nordlead
Looks like we are pretty much there - almost everyone has confirmed their Edelweiss orders, thanks thumbs up

La Bestia and WAD panel will be finalized once Edelweiss is in production ...
zdarma
One Edelwiess panel and CGS91 for me, please.
Thanks.
nordlead
All Edelweiss orders are confirmed now w00t - Edelweiss run will close tomorrow -

Re payment: I won't ask for money until the panels are here (in about 2 weeks), however, if for some reason you have the urge to pay earlier, send me a pm.

In any case, you ordered a pair of CGS91 rails along with the panel, I will (only) ship it, but you will have to pay Ken Stone Cat Girl Synth directly - he is the seller.

By the way, this is where the name comes from (needs lots of slopes!):


Leontopodium Alpinum
jooks
Ok, cant resist. 1x edelweiss + cgs91 for me! Thanks!
nordlead
Just posted the Edelweiss panel in the proofreading thread:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1432114#1432114

If you ordered one, please have a look - thanks!
nordlead
Edelweiss file sent to the production company... w00t
Jonachi
applause
notimeforlove
awesome, can't wait
DomMorley
Please put me down for:

1 x Bestia panel
1 x WAD panel
4 x 555 pcb
1 x WAD pcb
2 x CGS91

to the UK. thumbs up
lintfresh
Ooof. Can't hold back anymore.
I'm in for 1 La Bestia panel and 2 555 vco boards.

Rockin' Banana! sad banana Dead Banana
nordlead
Raw proof of Edelweiss arrived today and fits the boat nicely,
full production run is scheduled for next week w00t

Synesthesia
Class!

What is the timeframe for la bestia?
rekem1000
I just scored a few NOS SAD1024's so put me down for 2x WAD panels and boards It's peanut butter jelly time!
DJBRUTAL
d'oh! nevermind.
notimeforlove
That looks killer Nordlead, color me excited.

I've been kinda waffling all weekend but seeing, that made the decision for me In addition to me order, put me down for

+1 Wad panel and associated PCBs. (so 4 of the 555s total right?, are you doing the additional WAD boards or is that Ken?)

I know I'd kick myself later if I didn't get it.
nordlead
Synesthesia wrote:
What is the timeframe for la bestia?


La Bestia is next in line - I've just spent ridiculous amounts of time checking hole positions, discussing aluminum alloys and pickling times to get the Edelweiss panel as good as I'd like it to be, so I want to hold the Edelweiss panels in my hands (and see how packaging and shipping goes) before throwing La Bestia into production... I guess it will be in 9 to 14 days.

Anyway I can't ship La Besta (or WAD) until I have the 555 pcbs (and the CGS91 rails which are in transit or customs) here. As fonik is working on a special (both pcbs in 3"! hyper ) solution for this run, there is another variable, but I think this will not have too much effect on timing.

The La Bestia design I consider fairly final, except for maybe the choice between J3RK's X-Fader and J3RK's mixer - haven't received much response on that so far, I think either way makes sense ...
Synesthesia
Thanks Nordlead - that's good delays smile

I kind of prefer J3k's xfader if you ask me though smile
notimeforlove
yeah, same here, xfader for sure.
zdarma
nordlead wrote:
All Edelweiss orders are confirmed now w00t - Edelweiss run will close tomorrow -

Re payment: I won't ask for money until the panels are here (in about 2 weeks), however, if for some reason you have the urge to pay earlier, send me a pm.

In any case, you ordered a pair of CGS91 rails along with the panel, I will (only) ship it, but you will have to pay Ken Stone Cat Girl Synth directly - he is the seller.


I do not quite understand this.
So we should send money to ken for the CGS91?
Does he then ship it to you?
Do we need to somehow refer to this arrangement or thread when sending the money to ken?
When should we send the money to ken?
nordlead
zdarma wrote:
I do not quite understand this.
So we should send money to ken for the CGS91?
Does he then ship it to you?


Here's how it works:

The CGS91 should arrive here any day, the Edelweiss panels next week, maybe sooner. Once I've got both here, I'll ask you to pay:

- CGS91 directly to Ken (provided you've ordered them, of course)
- panels to me.

Once payment is in (Ken will let me know), I'll ship panel(s) + CGS91 together ...
nordlead
Matthias (fonik) and I have spent quite a bit of time spinning 4U ideas - here's the current status of the amazing 555-VCO, squeezed into a 1.5" wide pcb so that a pair only takes up 3" of horizontal space:



But that's only half the story - here's the design of a 3" wide a utility pcb onto which all the front panel components (including 9mm alpha pots) can be mounted, so that no more wiring is necessary w00t



Let us know what you guys think Guinness ftw!

PS: Anyone interested in high quality boats (with optional rack ears) that fit Edelweiss & Co as well as existing STS/Serge panels? We'll probably start an interest check in the Serge forum soon ...
Reality Checkpoint
nordlead wrote:
Matthias (fonik) and I have spent quite a bit of time spinning 4U ideas - here's the current status of the amazing 555-VCO, squeezed into a 1.5" wide pcb so that a pair only takes up 3" of horizontal space:



But that's only half the story - here's the design of a 3" wide a utility pcb onto which all the front panel components (including 9mm alpha pots) can be mounted, so that no more wiring is necessary w00t



Let us know what you guys think Guinness ftw!

PS: Anyone interested in high quality boats (with optional rack ears) that fit Edelweiss & Co as well as existing STS/Serge panels? We'll probably start an interest check in the Serge forum soon ...


This just gets better and better.

Kudos to you. we're not worthy
Synesthesia
Jesus!

amazing smile would be interested by a boat if the price is good smile
Synesthesia
I made a couple of Thomas Henry \ LFO and ADSR, and I really like Fonic's panel\PCB's. they are fantastic.

Be carefull though, or we'll have to ask the same for the LPG\Gate, xFader ...etc wink
monstrinho
I would definitely be interested in multiple sets of rack ears (how many depends on the price). I'm sure there are a lot of people who may not necessarily be interested in boats or panels but would want the rack ears. Maybe you should start a separate thread for this?
DomMorley
nordlead wrote:

Let us know what you guys think Guinness ftw!


eek! w00t we're not worthy It's peanut butter jelly time!
nordlead
Thanks, guys! thumbs up

Just posted an Interest Check for Serge/4U Boats in the Serge section. It's peanut butter jelly time!
Jonachi
Any news on these? Looking forward to photos!
nordlead
Jonachi wrote:
Any news on these? Looking forward to photos!


panels or boats?

Edelweiss is scheduled to arrive here this week w00t

Boat turns out to be not so easy - looking into material/surface alternatives before ordering the prototype ...
Jonachi
Edelweiss panel -great to hear it is on its way!
bookends
I'm becoming less and less enamored with the idea of doing the WAD panel. Can you please switch my interest to 1x La Bestia and 2x 555 VCO? Thanks!
c1t1zen
Can you add me to one of each panel and the pcb.
Thanks This is fun!
nordlead
Edelweiss arrived today :-)





CGS91 shipment is expected to get here any day, hopefully no later than sometime next week.

I will post payment info soon... shipping will probably start next week
Jonachi
Nice! applause Any news on when the new PCB's from Ken will be out? Can't wait to build this.
notimeforlove
Also I assume he will do pcb sets like he did for the BOCGS panals? So exciting, can't wait. thanks again for doing these nordlead
nordlead
Jonachi wrote:
Any news on when the new PCB's from Ken will be out? Can't wait to build this.


Can't speak for the man, but for Edelweiss the only new pcb is the Serge Noise which I hear is on it's way ... screaming goo yo
nordlead
First Edelweiss panels shipped today w00t
Synesthesia
Edelweiss looks stunning !!
nordlead
Synesthesia wrote:
Edelweiss looks stunning !!


Thanks! Guinness ftw!

CGS91 hasn't arrived yet, hope it will be here in the next few days.

I've asked everyone who ordered an Edelweiss without rails for payment and have started shipping those.

As soon as the CGS91 are here, I'll ask you to pay Ken directly. If you wish, you can already pay for the panel now, this might make shipping a bit faster - please pm me if you wish to do so. In any case I'll let you know as soon as the rails arrive and everything can be shipped.

Oh, when making a payment, please include your name here on Muffwiggler, otherwise it's hard for me to recognize who paid for what order - thanks!
nordlead
CGS91 still hasn't arrived ... very frustrating

Since Edelweiss is here ready to be shipped: anyone who ordered a pair of rails together with Edelweiss, let me know if you would like to have Edelweiss shipped without the rails (and get the rails + other pcbs directly from Ken).
That's what I'll start doing in a few days if the rails don't show up, anyway.

Re the La Bestia and Sturm&Drang (WAD) panels, fonik is not only working hard on the new 555-VCO pcbs and the matching component pcbs, but also on an X-Fader pcb in 1" (again with a 1" utility pcb for the pots and banana jacks) hyper

The idea for the X-Fader module is to have 2 inputs, 2 outputs (!) to allow panning / stereo effects, a Fade (Pan) pot + VC in and a Gain pot + VC-control. So in terms of I/O it will be similar to a Serge X Fader, but have a second ("Non-A") output instead of the TS jack and can be used as a fader (or panner) and VCA at the same time. Will keep you posted on the progress ...

I will also post pics of the (hopefully final) panel designs next week. No material changes, just cosmetics and the new Fader.
nordlead
EDELWEISS UPDATE: Got a notification today that the CGS91 shipment is with customs. Will try to pick it up on Monday so I can start shipping Edelweiss + rails. screaming goo yo

I'll ask you to pay Ken directly (USD 20 for a pair of CGS91) as soon as I hold the rails in my hands.

If you wish (and haven't done so already) you can already pay for the Edelweiss panel (€ 88 per panel shipped). Paypal address is ralf (at) rh3 (dot) de. Please include your name on Muffwiggler in the payment somewhere - Thanks!
Jonachi
Any news on that new CGS Noise pcb?
nordlead
Got the CGS91 out of customs today. w00t

If you ordered Edelweiss + rails, please

(1) pay Ken directly for the CGS91 and
(2) Pay(pal) € 88 for the Edelweiss panel (including shipping with or without rails) to: ralf (at) rh3 (dot) de.

Don't forget to include your name on Muffwiggler in the payments.

Thanks!
DJBRUTAL
Is there a set cut off date for the La Bestia and WAD panels?
nordlead
DJBRUTAL wrote:
Is there a set cut off date for the La Bestia and WAD panels?


Not yet - I want to get Edelweiss shipped completely before moving on (anyone who hasn't paid for Edelweiss yet - please feel free to do so help ).

Also some of the pcbs are still in the works and I'm trying to sync this as closely as possible. Any updates will be in this thread.
mandzaro
Edelweiss-PAID
Ken CGS rails - PAID

Martin
notimeforlove
Received mine today, these are fantastic quality panels, very happy. Excellent job nordlead.
nordlead
notimeforlove wrote:
Received mine today, these are fantastic quality panels, very happy. Excellent job nordlead.


Thanks a lot! Guinness ftw!


Due to some forum chances I can't edit the first post any more, so I'll post shipping news here:

Today's Edelweiss (+CGS91) shipment: mandzaro, Reality Checkpoint and modintx.

I would like to get all of Edelweiss out before the weekend, so if you haven't paid yet, please feel free to do so - thanks.
kbo
hello,

1x WAD-panel, 1x WAD pcb, 2x 555 for me (France) smile
nordlead
kbo wrote:
hello,

1x WAD-panel, 1x WAD pcb, 2x 555 for me smile


OK - will add you to the list (can't edit the first post any more...)

------

Today's Edelweiss shipment: frozenkore, rekem1000 and fluxmonkey.
Reality Checkpoint
nordlead wrote:
Due to some forum chances I can't edit the first post any more, so I'll post shipping news here: Today's Edelweiss (+CGS91) shipment: mandzaro, Reality Checkpoint and modintx.


w00t
modintx
Panel en route - Cheers to nordlead

w00t w00t w00t applause
Jonachi
Got mine today! Wow! Looks great.

Oyeah, the Serge Noise PCB is out, I know cos I bought one yesterday! Ken's page has not been updated yet though.

Creating a small build document as we speak for panel wiring the Edelwiess. Just sent it to Nordlead for closer inspection. It's peanut butter jelly time!
modintx
Quote:
Creating a small build document as we speak for panel wiring the Edelwiess. Just sent it to Nordlead for closer inspection.


Fantastic - thank you Joanchi we're not worthy
bookends
stoked for these
Reality Checkpoint
Mine arrived this morning.

It is a thing of beauty.

Thank you Ralf - bring on La Bestia!
nordlead
Reality Checkpoint wrote:
Mine arrived this morning.

It is a thing of beauty.



thumbs up Guinness ftw!

Thanks to Muff and/or the admins it's possible to edit the first post again SlayerBadger! (list updated)

Still waiting for some payments to get Edelweiss shipped completely, but already working on finalizing La Bestia...
nordlead
Edelweiss completely shipped w00t

Here's the current idea for the X-Fader in La Bestia:



Out 1 would be the "normal" blended output, while Out 2 provides those parts that are not in Out 1, i.e. with the Fader pot fully CCW Out 1 would be In 1 and Out 2 = In 2 while the Fader pot fully CW causes Out 1 to be In 2 and Out 2 to be In 1, in between you get a mix of In 1 and In 2 on Out 1 and the complementary mix as Out 2... So it can be used for both fading and panning at the same time.

fonik is looking into ways to squeeze this fading (+panning) + VCA functionality into 1" (which turns out to be a bit of a challenge...)
jarvis
The new La Bestia layout is growing more and more on me... it really looks like a fantastic voice panel.

So, please disregard my post a ways back and keep my name on the list!

thumbs up
Jonachi
I'm really on the fence about Le Bestia. Nordlead did an exellent job with Edelwiess though, it looks fantastic, and shipped really fast. I might be in on this. is the layout set? When is the deadline?
DJBRUTAL
Can someone who got the Edelweiss panel post some pictures?
nordlead
Ken Cat Girl Synth fed the brand new Serge Noise (CGS97) in BOMpiler so I could set up Edelweiss as a project - please note that this is very premliminary, CGS81 has not been adapted to reflect the build as a Voltage Processor and there may be other bugs, however here's the total BOM generated by BOMpiler from the pcbs: http://bompiler.com/project/edelweiss

Regarding La Bestia: from my side the design is final (just need the check hole sizes etc.), however, since the pcbs for the X-Fader, Var Q filter and Stereo Mixer are not final/available yet, I'm not sure it makes sense to rush into production now - right now the best of the best (in alphabetic order hihi : fonik, J3RK and Ken) are working on those and I think it's worth every day of waiting ...

La Bestia and the WAD panel have been very ambitious in many ways, I'm sure we'll get there (sooner than later).

Anyway, if you guys prefer to go ahead with the panel(s) right away so you can start building the other (available) modules, I don't mind either - I just think it's better to align the panel with the pcb developments.
Jonachi
Thanks Ralph. Wont post any suggestions for the Bestia then!

Great job on the Edelwiess! Just need to finish up the BOG, TKB before I set my teeth into it. meh
nordlead
Jonachi wrote:
Thanks Ralph. Wont post any suggestions for the Bestia then!

Great job on the Edelwiess! Just need to finish up the BOG, TKB before I set my teeth into it. meh


Thanks, Jonas! No, please feel free to post any suggestions - if there's a time to think about final details, it's now Guinness ftw!
Jonachi
well, but take these with a grain of salt!

1. For the OSC section it would be great if the layout was done so that one could choose between using the 555 or J3rks new adaptation of the 258.

2. Including another DUSG and SSG doesn't really make sense to me (except to mimic the Animal panel) Edelwiess has that already (+ I have another DUSG in my BOG). I would rather have the extended ADSR in place of any of them, making this panel more unique.
modintx
My 2 cents and it is only worth 2 cents, is that La Bestia is perfect as is. With the WAD panel offering the ADSR if needed in the 'set'.

(hides)
jarvis
Jonachi wrote:
well, but take these with a grain of salt!

1. For the OSC section it would be great if the layout was done so that one could choose between using the 555 or J3rks new adaptation of the 258.


I'm not so sure the 2 osc's have enough of an overlap to create labeling which would accommodate either one. 555 has sync where 258 does not, 258 has cv'able waveshape where 555 does not. Though the 258 is absolutely one of my fav oscillators, the 555 seems to make more sense in this panel simply because of the sync and PWM. And, from what I understand, the 555 would track over a wider range as well.

Jonachi wrote:
2. Including another DUSG and SSG doesn't really make sense to me (except to mimic the Animal panel) Edelwiess has that already (+ I have another DUSG in my BOG). I would rather have the extended ADSR in place of any of them, making this panel more unique.


What I like about La Bestia is that it can be a whole system in itself. By swapping the DUSG & SSG for an extended ADSR you start to move away from that. While it might create redundancies in a multi-panel system, it would create gaps in a single-panel system.
Scories
Here's the kind of panel I whish I had :

DUSG (instead of VCO's)
Pulse Divider
Logics
ResEQ
Wavemultiplier
Smooth Stepped Generator (w. noise/s&h outs)
Dual Transient Generator
Variable Q VCF
2 XFAD (the 2nd model as shown on page 27, but I'd replace the out2 with a ¼ out)

Everything needed would be there, in a single panel.

EDIT : I'm not trying to change the design of the current models here.
nordlead
jarvis wrote:

I'm not so sure the 2 osc's have enough of an overlap to create labeling which would accommodate either one. 555 has sync where 258 does not, 258 has cv'able waveshape where 555 does not. Though the 258 is absolutely one of my fav oscillators, the 555 seems to make more sense in this panel simply because of the sync and PWM. And, from what I understand, the 555 would track over a wider range as well.


Well, it might even be possible - J3RK's new generation of VCOs (UltraFade) is a step (or two) beyond the 258 - while it can do anything the 258 can, it has an improved feature set (including sync). So if you are happy to leave some of the Ultrafade features (like Variable Waveform) unused and willing to stack the pcbs (Ultra is 3" wide), this might work ... However I'm not sure if you gain anything compared to a pair of 555 then, since the main distinctive features will not be on the panel...

jarvis wrote:

What I like about La Bestia is that it can be a whole system in itself. By swapping the DUSG & SSG for an extended ADSR you start to move away from that. While it might create redundancies in a multi-panel system, it would create gaps in a single-panel system.


Yes, the idea for La Bestia was to have a panel you can use standalone as well as in a larger setup, so it would lose as a standalone without the DTG. Also, many people believe you can't have enough slopes anyway, which is why a Creature + QuadSlope (6 slopes!) is considered one of the best one panel systems, but of course that's a matter of taste .
modintx
Quote:
Ken Cat Girl Synth fed the brand new Serge Noise (CGS97) in BOMpiler so I could set up Edelweiss as a project - please note that this is very premliminary, CGS81 has not been adapted to reflect the build as a Voltage Processor and there may be other bugs, however here's the total BOM generated by BOMpiler from the pcbs: http://bompiler.com/project/edelweiss


Thank you Nordlead for starting to work on this - it's super helpful and a great time save for us.

Guinness ftw!
bookends
+1 for leaving Bestia in current arrangement
DomMorley
bookends wrote:
+1 for leaving Bestia in current arrangement


+1
J3RK
Jonachi wrote:
well, but take these with a grain of salt!

1. For the OSC section it would be great if the layout was done so that one could choose between using the 555 or J3rks new adaptation of the 258.


For this panel, I would probably stick with the 555 VCOs. They have a very similar triangle core, and the IO is just right for the panel. My VCOs have all of the same features, but all of the things that differentiate the two wouldn't be on the panel (unless you subbed them in under the wrong label.) Thomas's VCOs probably have a slight tracking edge as well. Mine track around 8 octaves, but I think his will go slightly higher. How useful that is, I'm not sure, and I've never measured mine beyond 7-8 (as I don't have a good frequency counter) but based on what's available, I really think his/Fonik's boards are the way to go on this panel.

Where my VCOs will shine is having a layout that puts all of the waveform crossfading features on the panel, the logic pulse waveform, and possibly a control board to build a complex dual VCO setup. I'm reworking the control board a bit right now, and have a new complex configuration planned for very soon.

That's my 2 cents on the matter anyway. Anyone is more than welcome to try using mine when they're ready. I just think the interesting parts might be wasted. w00t
Jonachi
I stand corrected!
mandzaro
Because it’s my first Serge project, I’ve some quick questions:

- LED’s, any recommendations?

-Does Edelweiss need Alpha 16 mm or 9 mm? (6,35mm shaft and 7mm bushing)
-Which one fits Davis 1900h clone knobs ?
-round or knurled shaft ?

Switches - should be SPDT with centre off ?
and
What about hardware (stand-offs etc.) ?


I really appreciate yours help

Thanks

Martin
J3RK
16mm or 9mm will work fine, but 16mm are what I would use for these. You want a round shaft for 1900h, or really nearly any of the most popular knobs (Alco/Tyco, Davies, Rogan, etc.)

What type of switch depends on the function. You'll need to look at the build notes/instructions for each PCB/function (The CGS site will have all the info for CGS stuff, including components and wiring diagrams.) Smallbear has a decent toggle switch selection. If you want really nice ones, Mouser carries NKK which are incredibly nice. (a little expensive though)

Someone else will need to chime in on LEDs and mounting hardware as I haven't built any of these yet. I usually use Lumex LEDs with built-in bezels, but I don't know if they fit the holes on these. seriously, i just don't get it
nordlead
J3RK's right (as always!) - Most people use Alpha pots 16mm (Mouser: 313-1000F-50K search for 313-1000F to get the full list), as far as I know (sadly) 9mm are not available with solder lugs (at least from Alpha).

Switches: I use NKK M-Series (e.g. M2013SS1W01). Check and double check on the CGS site which ones ... Just found this: http://www.nkkswitches.com/ConfiguratorNS.aspx?S1=4&S2=20

LED lenses: I designed the panel for the VCC LED lenses (5mm and 3mm, e.g. mouser: 593-3000A, 593-1700A). I took the hole sizes from the datatsheets but noticed that it's a very tight fit - you might have to file off a bit here and there. Strangely there seem to be slight differences between the colors of the lenses - some holes were no problem in one color but slightly too tight in another one. Probably tolerances in the plastic material. I suggest to order more lenses than you actually need so you can hand-select. Good news is I don't think you will need a retention ring - mine will survive an earthquake.

LEDs: no experience yet - I ordered various super-bright ones from Mouser (VCC) and hope to dim them down with the resistors, probably a good idea to check before soldering the resistors in.

Edit: forgot the small stuff:

I find hinged standoffs extremely helpful when using CGS91: Mouser: 534-352 (1"). They have a US 4-40 thread, so you also need 4-40 screws and 4-40 spacers for the opposite side, some unchecked #s here:

534-352 (1" hinged standoff)
534-330 (longer)
761-4542-440-AL-7 (1" spacer 4-40)
517-3341-1S
601-40-98440F
mandzaro
Thanks !
nanners

Martin
modintx
CGS Serge Noise for Edelweiss I believe.

Posted elsewhere - but here for reference.

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs97_noise.html
Jonachi
Quote:
LED lenses: I designed the panel for the VCC LED lenses (5mm and 3mm, e.g. mouser: 593-3000A, 593-1700A). I took the hole sizes from the datatsheets but noticed that it's a very tight fit - you might have to file off a bit here and there. Strangely there seem to be slight differences between the colors of the lenses - some holes were no problem in one color but slightly too tight in another one. Probably tolerances in the plastic material. I suggest to order more lenses than you actually need so you can hand-select. Good news is I don't think you will need a retention ring - mine will survive an earthquake.


Just mounted some of the bananas to the panel. My lenses for the 3mm slided just right in and seem to fit just perfectly. I used clear ones from Das Musik Ding:

http://www.musikding.de/Fresnel-lense-3mm-round-flat-clear

who (by the way) are an excellent supplier for 3080's which are needed for the 2 SSG PCB's (if you live in Europe that is).

Since the 3mm Lenses are near the bananas I would suggest installing them before the red banana jacks. It will make your life somewhat easier.

Got all my PCB's from Ken today. Build guide is almost done, as well! Just need to double check some things.
Chaotic
Can I still order La Bestia?
Jonachi
bananas in place!




modintx
w00t Looks excellent!

Waiting for Post Office to get mine to me. waah

Am I correct in saying you went with the 3mm clear LED lenses on the Gate Seq etc?
Jonachi
modintx

Look above, a few posts above the pics!
modintx
d'oh!

Cheers - and its STILL looking good thumbs up
nordlead
Chaotic wrote:
Can I still order La Bestia?


Yes, indeed w00t

Actually here's the current design which is hopefully at least 99% final - I'd like to actually place the order by the end of this week or on Monday 24 March at the latest:



Only minor changes: X-Fader with the fading swoosh and switch label changed so that either the CGS Plan B (3 position switch) or J3RK's upcoming LPG (2 position switch) can be used.
Chaotic
Then I order 1 panel, 2 vco 555 pcb´s and cgs91 to Norway It's peanut butter jelly time!
jarvis
I hadn't seen that the cgs91's would be available along w/ the panel, so please add a set of those to my order if it's still an option for La Bestia
rekem1000
Is this all the boards needed from Ken for Edelweiss or am I missing something for the Random Source?

2x CGS114 DUSG
1x CGS81 Dual Processor
1x CGS91 PCB Mounting Rails
1x CGS92 Smooth Stepped
1x CGS89 Gate Sequencer
1x CGS36 Pulse Divider / Logic
1x CGS97 Noise
Jonachi
Yes, but you need 2 SSG PCB's!
rekem1000
Ahhh, thanks!
nordlead
Updated the list - please let me know if I missed something / someone.

La Bestia is scheduled to go in production soon w00t

Time to move on to the WAD! A couple you expressed interest in the WAD module (with a panel), but would actually prefer a more flexible solution which I understand - after all it's called Modular ...



Here's the idea: a 4x4 format (4 quarter-panels each featuring 4") seems to provide a nice combination of modularity, consistent looks and panel economics. The boat fonik and I are working on will also support this format.

Been haggling with the production company - by combining the La Bestia run with these 4 we would manage to get the 4 mini panels for the price of a full panel - so I could still offer the set of 4 for € 80 plus shipping...

Of course, the real fun will start once there are more than these 4 designs available, but I happened to draw a couple more for the next round (DTG + SSG, DUSG + Scaling Buffer ...) nanners

Would love to hear what you think Guinness ftw! -
in particular if your name is on the WAD panel list, please let me know if you prefer the modular version, the original full panel or either way - thanks!
modintx
I really like this idea, I'm not in for a WAD given the pain that seems to surround building that function block. But I like the next round of panels you mention :-)

The boats of course will be key to this, I'm after a few of those just for current DIY panels, so as long as those come to light this is a very cool and attractive idea. Thank you.

hyper
rekem1000
Definitely prefer the original full panel, for aesthetic consistency and fitting into my custom frame.
bookends
yeah full panel would look better
DomMorley
rekem1000 wrote:
Definitely prefer the original full panel, for aesthetic consistency and fitting into my custom frame.


I agree in this instance, although in the future I think development of the smaller panels is very exciting. I know thebadproducer is working on a similar-ish concept. Perhaps get together before we end up with dotcom/MOTM in 4U! hihi
lintfresh
Love the 4x4 format idea! I would be all over the smaller individual panels.
CLee
Somebody please break the 4U-PANELS-NEED-TO-BE-SEVENTEEN-INCHES-WIDE mindset.

Serge is great, but...
DJBRUTAL
CLee wrote:
Somebody please break the 4U-PANELS-NEED-TO-BE-SEVENTEEN-INCHES-WIDE mindset.


Nothing wrong with that, unless you want to use the ever popular Bud/Hammond boats.
notimeforlove
I love the idea of the individual panels, and I have a bunch in my 4U system, but I also would prefer the WAD panel as a single panel. I think it looks great and finishes off a nice group of 6 with the first two from you and the BOCGS panels. I'll probably buy them either way, but I still vote single panel for this one.
nordlead
CLee wrote:
Somebody please break the 4U-PANELS-NEED-TO-BE-SEVENTEEN-INCHES-WIDE mindset.

Serge is great, but...


Craig, not sure what you are suggesting - I assume a number of Serge users use 19" racks, so deviating here would need a good reason. Also for anyone who already has a panel or more of Serge gear, I think some format consistency is nice. However, in the boat thread people have already asked for smaller or larger versions, so I wouldn't rule this out for the future ...

Of, for the avoidance of doubt: since there have been quite a few (proposed or actual) changes to the original panel designs of Edelweiss, La Bestia & co., I can assure that the 17" width of La Bestia and Sturm&Drang (whether as a full panel or chopped) will remain 17"...
Jonachi
Will your "logo" the text "Random Source" or randomsource.com be on all your panels now? I prefer the much more minimalistic layout of the Edelweiss. Looks quite messy with all that extra text.
Chaotic
nordlead wrote:
Updated the list - please let me know if I missed something / someone.


2x555 pcb`s

I`m not in the hurry but when will this happen and what will the total cost be?
Have 2 Coa panels in my backlog love
nordlead
Chaotic wrote:

2x555 pcb`s

I`m not in the hurry but when will this happen and what will the total cost be?
Have 2 Coa panels in my backlog love


Actually I started to simply put down 555 for a set of pcbs - as fonik will also provide a utility pcb (3" wide) to mount the pots and bananas for both 555-pcbs (see earlier in this thread), 555 is meant to refer to a set of pcbs for one panel (i.e. 2x VCO + 1x utility). By the way, the prototype looks gorgeous - no more wiring mess w00t

Cost of the 555 pcb set is not determined yet, but will be reasonable.

I plan to order both La Bestia and Sturm&Drang beginning of next week.

Generally I do not like taking money in advance, but I'm also not eager to end up with a pile of panels, so I'm thinking about asking for either a (firm) confirmation or a deposit of say € 40 per panel.

Based on the feedback so far it looks like Sturm&Drang will stay in one piece ...
CLee
nordlead wrote:
CLee wrote:
Somebody please break the 4U-PANELS-NEED-TO-BE-SEVENTEEN-INCHES-WIDE mindset.

Serge is great, but...


Craig, not sure what you are suggesting - I assume a number of Serge users use 19" racks, so deviating here would need a good reason. Also for anyone who already has a panel or more of Serge gear, I think some format consistency is nice. However, in the boat thread people have already asked for smaller or larger versions, so I wouldn't rule this out for the future ...

Of, for the avoidance of doubt: since there have been quite a few (proposed or actual) changes to the original panel designs of Edelweiss, La Bestia & co., I can assure that the 17" width of La Bestia and Sturm&Drang (whether as a full panel or chopped) will remain 17"...


Sorry, that was supposed to be a bit of a joke.

I'd love to get panels from folks but I'm not personally interested in full panels. Both yours and the others on offer are really nice but they usually contain a lot of modules which I've already built. Trying to contain the growth of my modular I don't want 17" panels that have modules I don't need.

There seems to be a lot of talk about smaller, or individual, 4U panels. I'm hoping that finally starts happening so I can jump on some when they're modules I want to build. For now I'll continue to lurk in the panel threads and lust...
J3RK
Just want to chime in as LOVING the 4x4 panel idea! I've actually got some board combos in mind that would really take advantage of this. w00t Rockin' Banana! thumbs up screaming goo yo SlayerBadger!
jarvis
I'm into the 4x4 panels as well. And since that makes them the same size as Buchla panels, it also opens up some cross-format options which is a big plus in my book.
J3RK
jarvis wrote:
I'm into the 4x4 panels as well. And since that makes them the same size as Buchla panels, it also opens up some cross-format options which is a big plus in my book.


I didn't even think about that. w00t w00t w00t
nordlead
Just posted the hopefully final versions of La Bestia and Sturm&Drang here in the proofreading thread.

Please have a look and help find any bugs that might still be around after hours of moving circles and aligning labels ... thanks! help

I'd like to close and place the order for both panels on Monday, 24 March - please let me know if the list at the beginning of the thread is not correct re these two panels - thanks again!

Here's the preview including knobs for your viewing pleasure, but please look at the hires-versions above for spotting any errors:


Chaotic
Very nice. Looking forward to play the La Bestia.
Say when, and l'll pay the deposit
modintx
Just curious - did any kind soul put together a FINAL BOM for Edelweiss now the Serge Noise PCB is out?

Cheers w00t
DJBRUTAL
I would like 1 WAD pcb only please. Wish I could afford a panel or two, but I can't right now very frustrating
Jonachi
I'll ask again, since I never got a reply. Is the "randoms source" logo really gonna be on the final panel? I pretty much think it destroys an otherwise nice looking panel. Also it breaks consistency with the Edelwiess panel since it didn't have the logo on it.

Might sound silly, but to me this is a deal breaker.
nordlead
modintx wrote:
Just curious - did any kind soul put together a FINAL BOM for Edelweiss now the Serge Noise PCB is out?

Cheers w00t


BOMpiler has the CGS97 (Noise) by now as well, so the full panel is here:
http://bompiler.com/project/edelweiss

Main updates: CGS81 is now included as a Dual Voltage Processor (rather than mixer). Serge Noise: please note that 6 of the 100N caps (marked "0.1") are (cheap) decoupling caps, the one labelled "100n" should be something better like MKS, MKT - this is not shown on Ken's BOM nor BOMpiler yet.

However I would not really call this final - rather a pretty good starting point. You should read Ken's notes in any case, as corrections might not be reflected in BOMpiler yet (BOMpiler digests the raw pcb data), also some choices depend on build/taste etc.

DJBRUTAL wrote:
I would like 1 WAD pcb only please. Wish I could afford a panel or two, but I can't right now


The idea is to fill WAD panel + pcb orders first, and if there are any pcbs left, they will be available from Ken, so please hang on a bit longer.

Jonachi wrote:
I'll ask again, since I never got a reply. Is the "randoms source" logo really gonna be on the final panel? ... Might sound silly, but to me this is a deal breaker.


Not decided yet and I'm surprised to hear this. However, no problem to take you off the list.
modintx
Quote:
BOMpiler has the CGS97 (Noise) by now as well, so the full panel is here:


Thank you nordlead- huge help in getting a baseline BOM for further refinement with Ken's notes we're not worthy

It's peanut butter jelly time!
Jonachi
Quote:
Not decided yet and I'm surprised to hear this. However, no problem to take you off the list.


I'm not on the list, so no need! I was just considering. I'll pass this time around. Keep up the good work. The edelweiss panel is amazing!
rekem1000
I too would prefer not to have the randomsource.com logo on the panels, it spoils the clean look, should never mix fonts... :(
nordlead
Since I'm still waiting for a couple of responses to confirm orders and there have been a few cancellations, this is the
w00t LAST CHANCE TO ORDER A WAD PANEL OR LA BESTIA w00t

Re payment - I'll ask for payment for the panels once I have the panels here - i.e. immediately before shipping. It would then be quite helpful, if you guys could then pay right away. thumbs up

However anyone who'd like to pay a deposit towards the panel price (say 50% = € 44 per panel) or even the full panel price sooner, feel free to do so. Paypal is ralf * rh3 # de (use @ and . instead of * and #).

Payment for pcbs: I'll post the details (including prices for foniks dual 555-VCO set which will consist of 2 VCO pcbs and a 3" panel-component pcb) soon.
tmeade
1 WAD panel, 2 WAD pcbs, 4x 555, New Zealand
nordlead
tmeade wrote:
1 WAD panel, 2 WAD pcbs, 4x 555, New Zealand


added you to the list w00t
jarvis
Just thought about this on my walk to work this morning: will the pot PCB that Fonik is designing for the VCOs interfere at all with the CGS mounting rails or are the rails taken into consideration? Or can the CGS rails just be cut to size?
jarvis
rekem1000 wrote:
I too would prefer not to have the randomsource.com logo on the panels, it spoils the clean look, should never mix fonts... :(


Yes, I agree with this line of thought as well. It's not a deal breaker for me, but it does detract from the panel. I really don't like looking at things that remind me of the internet when I am actively trying to avoid it while making music. I'd be much more at ease with a logo than a website, but that's just my perspective.
nordlead
jarvis wrote:
Just thought about this on my walk to work this morning: will the pot PCB that Fonik is designing for the VCOs interfere at all with the CGS mounting rails or are the rails taken into consideration? Or can the CGS rails just be cut to size?


It's probably easiest to shorten the CGS91 (using a saw or similar) - I've used chopped CGS91 rails in my Wellenreiter panel (M-format). I wouldn't recommend breaking or using side-cutters. When using foniks utility board,
everything is attached to the panel, so the rails are not needed for the first 3 or 4" ...

jarvis wrote:
... I'd be much more at ease with a logo than a website, but that's just my perspective.


Good point, actually the "Random*Source" logo was meant to be there, not the url ... might leave it out completely for this time. The idea is to use the website for (pre-)order management and logistics, doing this via a Muff thread and individual pm's turns out to be quite inefficient ...
jooks
I know its late but if possible I would like to buy 1 La Bestia panel + 2 555 pcbs.
nordlead
jooks wrote:
I know its late but if possible I would like to buy 1 La Bestia panel + 2 555 pcbs.


Added you to the list nanners

It seems some of you missed the 555-VCO updates earlier in this thread, so here's a quick summary: mastermind fonik will not only do 555-VCO pcbs (1.5" wide so that 2 take only up 3"), but also a utility/panel component pcb (3" wide) onto which the pots and banana jacks for both VCOs are mounted. So it will be a 3-piece pcb set for each Dual VCO / panel. This means no more messy wiring:



For the 2 High/Low switches, there will be cutouts and pads in the component pcb so that you are flexible in terms of which model to use.
For each switch you will need 3 tiny pieces of wire to connect each solder log with a pad next to the switch. So that all the wiring there is to do w00t

Recommended pots are 9mm Alpha, vertical pcb mount.

modintx
OMG - This is fantastic!

we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy
fonik
i have to add that the picures above show a prototype where i used different potentiomters (ones i had on hand from a direct taiwan buy).
also the headers to connect the PCBs will be perfectly aligned grin
jooks
Many many thanks nordlead thumbs up

And wow! Pcb for panelmount is fantastic news w00t
J3RK
Wow! That is VERY nice work guys! That is an excellent solution! That may be the first method of doing the dreaded (for me) daughterboard that everyone seems to want these days. hihi

Very cool.
modintx
Edelweiss Build Question: Random Source

Hi Guys,

So I'm planning out the build and come along to the Random Source, I believe this is a combination of CGS92+CGS97 is that correct? If so do you have any links or information on how to combine those two please. I looked through Ken's site but have missed it if it's there somewhere.

Thanks for any advice!
nordlead
La Bestia and Sturm&Drang (WAD panel) files sent to the production company this morning ...

- without a logo, btw.
jarvis
Great!

I'm really looking forward to having a nice, portable, 1-panel system with La Bestia! It will be going straight into my live rig once it's all wired up w00t
modintx
nordlead wrote:

Quote:
La Bestia and Edelweiss files sent to the production company this morning .
..

More Edelweiss or are these WAD? As I wouldn't mind another Edelweiss if there are extra panels :-)

w00t w00t w00t
nordlead
modintx wrote:
nordlead wrote:

Quote:
La Bestia and Edelweiss files sent to the production company this morning .
..

More Edelweiss or are these WAD? As I wouldn't mind another Edelweiss if there are extra panels :-)

w00t w00t w00t


Sorry, that's Sturm&Drang (WAD), of course! Spent too much time with Edelweiss, I guess... edited that post

I might have some Edelweiss left - send me an email or pm if interested.
nordlead
modintx wrote:
... Random Source, I believe this is a combination of CGS92+CGS97 is that correct? If so do you have any links or information on how to combine those two please.


Random Source is indeed SSG (CGS92) plus Noise (CGS97):
Right side = Serge Noise (completely built)
Left side = Random Voltage Generator (SSG linked to Noise module).

Here's a preliminary pic of how I think they should be hooked up:



I'm not sure whether it's C (unipolar) or D (bipolar) of the Noise that should go into the Stepped IN (K) of the SSG ... I would guess D, but maybe someone can confirm. Let me know if there are any (other) mistakes.
modintx
Wonderful thank you so much nordlead w00t w00t w00t
Jonachi
Edelwiess build thread is up! The build doc is might contain slight errors though so please report any errors you find in this new thread:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108698
Jonachi
I'm in on Bestia + cgs91 + 555 pcbs. Damn! very frustrating

I'll probaly do a build guide for that one as well. Double damn. very frustrating very frustrating
fonik
lol
i will do a documentation for the 555 VCOs at least. a burdon you shall not carry...
Jonachi
Thanks Fonik! I would be happy to include your instructions in a complete build doc for the panel in the future!
Chaotic
Can someone please tell me which CGS-pcb`s we need in La Bestia. I´ve sold some gear and need to use them quickly before I spend them in anything else, like food or house hihi
modintx
So I was walking through the CGS PCB's I assume will drive the WAD Panel... and the original WAD PCB is 12v - fortunately all the other boards in the build are able to run at 12v. I think the 555 will be 12v as well so....

Just wanted to see if you guys agreed with those findings and that for simplicity sake we could drive the whole panel via the CGS91's at 12v (STS PS2A for example) and not have to mix in any 15v for any of these function blocks.

Thoughts?
nordlead
modintx wrote:
So I was walking through the CGS PCB's I assume will drive the WAD Panel... and the original WAD PCB is 12v - fortunately all the other boards in the build are able to run at 12v. I think the 555 will be 12v as well so....

Just wanted to see if you guys agreed with those findings and that for simplicity sake we could drive the whole panel via the CGS91's at 12v (STS PS2A for example) and not have to mix in any 15v for any of these function blocks.

Thoughts?


Serge is traditionally run on 12V - this is also kind of the standard voltage for the CGS boards (even though most modules - except for instance the WAD - allow that). No need to go 15V (unless you already have a 15V PSU)...
Jonachi
Chaotic wrote:
Can someone please tell me which CGS-pcb`s we need in La Bestia. I´ve sold some gear and need to use them quickly before I spend them in anything else, like food or house hihi


Shouln't be too hard to figure out, might even be mentioned in the original thread. The VCFq has not been released yet so you better be saving those moneys!
modintx
nordlead wrote:

Quote:
Serge is traditionally run on 12V - this is also kind of the standard voltage for the CGS boards (even though most modules - except for instance the WAD - allow that). No need to go 15V (unless you already have a 15V PSU)...


Thank you for the insight nordlead, I was under the impression that Serge was 12V, but CGS was majority 15V. Just getting to know the CGS line, I guess it all comes down to the PCB board mix on the panel, majority rules unless one of them is fixed like the WAD PCB which makes the decision for you.

I've got access to both 12V and 15V so was trying to plan which supply I'd tap for this one :-).

All the best & cheers
nordlead
La Bestia and Sturm&Drang are scheduled to arrive here end of next week. w00t
modintx
Excellent news nordlead,

If you get a minute would you be good enough to list out the definitive list of the CGS PCB's we're going to require for these two.

Cheers!!

w00t
nordlead
modintx wrote:
Excellent news nordlead,

If you get a minute would you be good enough to list out the definitive list of the CGS PCB's we're going to require for these two.

Cheers!!

w00t


I'm afraid there is no definitive list (yet) and there will probably never be as some modules do no correspond 1:1 to a CGS module or there are different choices. Anyway, here's a start:

La Bestia: Dual VCO: fonik 555-VCO set*, X Fader: up to you, fonik*, (possibly Serge X Fader with only 1 output + phone jack) or half of a Serge Stereo Mix from CGS* (tbc), LPG: CGS LPG (doesn't exactly fit the rails), J3RK LPG*, Ring: up to you, CGS67 (?), Fritz 2Q4Q(*), Sowa Ring ...? Serge WaveMult: CGS113, SSG: CGS92, Noise: CGS97, DTG: CGS114, Var Q filter: CGS*, Stereo Mixer: CGS*

Sturm&Drang: Dual VCO: fonik 555-VCO set*, Random Source: CGS92 + CGS97, Timbre: up to you, roman_f timbre (different pcb format), Wilson Analog Delay: CGS208A, Serge Ring: CGS79, Phaser + Audio mix: CGS90, Res EQ: CGS202, ExtADSR: CGS116, UPAP/Stereo Mixer: CGS*

*: not released yet / to be released soon
modintx
Thank you nordlead that is really very helpful and gets the brain ticking over.

thumbs up
nordlead
Just picked up a stack of CGS91 rails from customs :-)

This means I'll be able to ship rails along with the panels as planned (as long as the stack lasts). You'll still have to pay Ken Stone directly - please do so when I ask for payment after the panels are here.
otoskope
Is this something that needs to be mentioned in the order, or have you assumed that we want a pair of those with each panel? Sorry if this has been said - I haven't been following this rails thing, but now that I check them out they look extremely practical.

/Palle
lintfresh
nordlead wrote:
LPG: CGS LPG (doesn't exactly fit the rails)


Meaning the CGS LPG doesn't fit the CGS91 rails? Can you clarify? The PCB isn't 6" in length?
harolddonnelly
Are these going to ship with the VCO PCBs?
nordlead
otoskope wrote:
Is this something that needs to be mentioned in the order, or have you assumed that we want a pair of those with each panel? Sorry if this has been said - I haven't been following this rails thing, but now that I check them out they look extremely practical.


Yes, please tell me if and how many pairs of CGS91 rails you would like, i.e. just make sure the list at the beginning of this thread is correct and send me an email or pm if not, logistics is already complicated enough...

Again Yes, the rails are very practical - I would go nuts without them ...
nordlead
lintfresh wrote:


Meaning the CGS LPG doesn't fit the CGS91 rails? Can you clarify? The PCB isn't 6" in length?


Well, the LPG pcb is 6" x 2" but it appears the mounting holes are a bit offset (pun intended ;-), so they board will probably not mount as nicely as the CGS boards (this one has not been designed by Ken), haven't actually tried it but I guess it's doable - just not as smooth as the other CGS boards. But then again, you get an authentic Plan B M13 ( = Buchla 292 clone) w00t
lintfresh
Ah I see. Thanks!
nordlead




Panels are here w00t
a stack of CGS91 rails as well (not sure how far they will last).

Unfortunately the 555-VCO pcb (sets) are scheduled to arrive in a week - right in the beginning of Easter holidays, so I probably won't get them until around March 23rd. If you've ordered both panel(s) and 555 pcbs, you have 2 choices:

(A) I can ship the panels (plus CGS91) now and you get the 555 pcbs separately from fonik once they are available (for an extra € 4 for shipping the pcbs) or

(B) I ship everything together once the pcbs are here (beginning in about 2 weeks realistically).

I'm very happy to ship whatever I can now to get rid of those stacks ...

In either case I have to ask you to pay for the panels now (if you have not already done so) and let me know which choice you prefer. If you decide to take choice A (immediate shipping), please also pay Ken directly for the rails, if you prefer combined shipping, you can still pay for the rails (to Ken) right now and I will reserve them for you. Price is € 88 per panel (shipped), CGS91 is USD 20 to Ken Stone.

No need to pay for the 555-pcbs yet. I will post updates.

Oh, this is quite a challenge in logistics, so please bear with me.

There have been a couple of requests for Edelweiss after the first run, so I had some more made, a bunch are still available - send me a pm or email if interested.
Jonachi
w00t w00t w00t

I'll wait until you have all parts! Looking good!

nice to hear you got more orders for Edelweiss! It's a sweet panel.
jooks
Beautiful! But I can wait:)
modintx
Just WOW - happy to take them now w00t
Chaotic
Shall we pay extra for shipping cost for the rails to Ken?
nordlead
Chaotic wrote:
Shall we pay extra for shipping cost for the rails to Ken?


I'll ship the rails along with the panels (as long as the stack lasts) - no extra cost ... but in fact I know Ken paid a ridiculously high postage to the rails shipped over here very frustrating

Also I forgot to mention the WAD pcbs - Cat Girl Synth Ken will ship those (along with whatever other boards you may need), so please let him know you participate in the WAD panel run and order directly from him.
Chaotic
Panels paid.

And I paid $5 extra to Ken for covering some of his shipping cost love
notimeforlove
they look killer! can't wait to put them together, but I don't actually have time to do anything for like a month anyway, so I'll wait till Fonik's pcbs are finished up. just paid up. thanks
DomMorley
Just paid up - I'll go for shipping option B.

Thanks!
tmeade
Panels Paid.

Will pay Ken for the rails shortly.

Option B.

-TOM
monstrinho
Paid for my panel. The CGS91 rails for my order should be marked paid as well.
mandzaro
Paid for La Bestia and Ken CGS91 rails.
Shipping option B please.

Thanks

Martin
nordlead
When paying, please provide your Muff-name as part of the (optional) paypal message (within the payment) - that makes life much easier for me ... thumbs up

Also, it might take a day or two until the list in the first post is updated - don't worry, no payments will be lost and I'm trying to keep track of everything.
modintx
I am sure I speak for all of us in saying a big thank you is in order to nordlead for all the design work on these three panels, along with the production ordering and the various order taking, payment tracking and shipping logistics work.

All very much appreciated as these are truly high quality products.

So thanks a million !!


we're not worthy w00t we're not worthy w00t we're not worthy w00t
Chaotic
thumbs up to Ralf
nordlead
please stop - you haven't even received your packages yet(!?)

(hides)

thanks anyway! thumbs up
bookends
Payment sent for WAD and Bestia panels. Thanks!
nordlead
If you haven't paid for your panel(s) yet, please do so now (even if you prefer shipping with the 555 pcbs), as this makes planning much easier for me ... thanks! thumbs up

There are also a couple of Edelweiss available, pm or email me if interested.
jooks
Ah sorry missed that you wanted payment right away. Paid now! Many thanks!!
rekem1000
All paid up, wait on shipping.
Jonachi
Payment for Bestia pane done! Sorry for the delay! Holidays and all that.
nordlead
fonik's 555 dual vco pcb sets are here w00t



Each 555 set consists of 3 pcbs: 2 VCO pcbs (each 1.5" wide) + 1 component pcb (3" wide to solder jacks and pots in, only the 2 switches have to be wired to pads next to them).
Price is € 32 per set (i.e. you need 1 set per panel),
please pay(pal) directly to fonik a-t web (dot) de and include your muff name as well as shipping address in the paypal payment - thanks!

I'll start shipping (panels + pcbs) as soon as I receive confirmation of payment from fonik (and Ken where applicable).

nanners

Looks like I underestimated interest in La Bestia - a couple of wigglers have asked if I had any more panels or would do a 2nd run.
I'm open to ordering a couple of additional panels in the next few days if there's enough interest - just send me a pm or email
if you (definitely) need another La Bestia
(or 2) - thanks!
Chaotic
Payment sent to Fonik w00t
notimeforlove
Nordlead, do you have the WAD boards, or does Ken ship those to us?
nordlead
Ken decided he would do the WAD pcb shipping, so please order from him directly. (CGS91 I'll ship as long as supplies last.)
Jonachi
Paid for 555 set (to fonik) and cgs 91 to Ken.

Looking forward to the panel.
modintx
Payment sent to Fonik - whaoaah!
mandzaro
1 set of 555 - paid
mandzaro
1 set of 555 - paid
lintfresh
Received my La Bestia panel today. Looks fantastic! Thanks Ralf.

Now to find time and
monstrinho
Paid for two 555 sets.
Jonachi
Just got this from Ken, thought you'de be interessted to know:

Quote:
I have these boards.
VCFQ $40
Stereo Mixer $50
The VCFQ is tested but not documented yet
The Mixer is not tested, but any issues will be detailed in the construction article.
Zergon
Can i get 555 pcb sets even if i didn't order the panels?
Chaotic
Edelweiss and LaBestia in the house.
Very nice panels
cillianjohn
Just paid for La Bestia and 555 pcbs (to fonik) and cgs91(to Ken).
Sorry for the delay!
modintx
Did he also happen to mention to you that the UPAP/Stereo Mixer is 9 PCB's per module. Mr. Green

Quote:
Just got this from Ken, thought you'de be interessted to know:

Quote:
I have these boards.
VCFQ $40
Stereo Mixer $50
The VCFQ is tested but not documented yet
The Mixer is not tested, but any issues will be detailed in the construction article.
Jonachi
I suspected as much! hihi
oldenjon
modintx wrote:
Did he also happen to mention to you that the UPAP/Stereo Mixer is 9 PCB's per module. Mr. Green

1 main PCB/ 8 submodules:
modintx
Oh I like that - thanks for sharing thumbs up
Isaiah
Jonachi wrote:
Just got this from Ken, thought you'de be interessted to know:

Quote:
I have these boards.
VCFQ $40
Stereo Mixer $50
The VCFQ is tested but not documented yet
The Mixer is not tested, but any issues will be detailed in the construction article.


Aww, I literally just paid for an order from Ken this morning.
I would have ordered those too.
Jonachi
we'll the stereomixer from Ken might be too much for La Bestia, it wont use much of the functionality that it is offering. J3rk will have a mixer out, and I also found this:

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs81_mixer.html

Although I can't really figure out how to wire it to suit Bestia.
nordlead
Logistics are killing me ...

If you have already paid for panels, but not for CGS91 rails and/or the 555 pcb sets, please pay for those pcbs so now so I can get the panels (and pcbs) out to you.

If you have ordered La Bestia and have not paid yet, please get in touch! There are a number of people on the waiting list and also a number of people who have ordered but not paid or not responded to emails or pms (very frustrating) ... I will not start a second run without knowing what's up with the current orders...

I'm already drowning in emails and pms so I won't send out tracking numbers individually any more - if you're in the completed list in the first post, your package has been shipped. If you do need your tracking number, let me know (some countries like the US do not provide full tracking).
Jonachi
Got my Bestia today (along with CGS91 and 555-vco). Wow that was fast!! Looks great as usual!

Hang in there Nordlead you are doing some really great work here and it is really, really appreciated!

we're not worthy
oldenjon
Jonachi wrote:
we'll the stereomixer from Ken might be too much for La Bestia, it wont use much of the functionality that it is offering.

The Stereo mixer is not a mixer in the traditional sense, it's more of a VCA and Panner module (See here) I believe the x-fader was included to handle mixing duties.
notimeforlove
And paid for PCBs, sorry for the delay!
Chaotic
Now I've got the vco pcb's too w00t
Thank you Ralf and Fonik
bookends
Just sent payment for 2x 555 VCO pcb sets. Thanks!
tekzon
Hi!
payed to nordlead for an edelweiss panel and
to ken for all pcb's...!
Dam' i'm broke Dead Banana
and there's still new diy project every day....
nordlead
tekzon wrote:
Hi!
payed to nordlead for an edelweiss panel


Shipped today w00t

Together with bookends, notimeforlove ...
tekzon
Wahouuu!!!
that was fast mate! thanks a lot.
i hope i'll could say the same about my building but i doubt it seriously...
i still got to work for living.... such a waste!!! ha ha ha
bookends
awesome, thanks!
notimeforlove
sweet, thanks dude.
nordlead
Since a few guys who ordered Sturm&Drang have not responded yet sad banana I'll probably end up selling those to whoever is interested, so ...
just send me an email or pm if you're in dire need of a Serge WAD panel Rockin' Banana!

(this might be the last chance as there won't be a second run of either the panels or the WAD pcbs...)
nordlead
I have no La Bestia left (except for those already paid!) - if you've ordered La Bestia and not responded or not paid for it yet, please don't pay for it but contact me if you'd like to be on the list for a 2nd run.

To avoid any confusion: any paid panels are reserved and will be shipped as soon as the pcbs are also paid. It's peanut butter jelly time!
nordlead
Shipped nangu yesterday and kbo, c1t1zen, tmeade today screaming goo yo
tekzon
panel received this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
well packed, fast... perfect mate!
Thanks a lot, i'm happy
tekzon
panel received this morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
well packed, fast... perfect mate!
Thanks a lot, i'm happy
cillianjohn
Got my today too. Looks great. Thanks for all your hard work, Ralf.
cillianjohn
cillianjohn wrote:
Got my today too. Looks great. Thanks for all your hard work, Ralf.


I meant to add a few emoticons there....

Rockin' Banana!

It's motherfucking bacon yo

applause




Ah, that's better.
nordlead
Thanks, guys! thumbs up

Shipped frozenkore, rekem1000 and chinard today.

Play Him Off, Keyboard Cat.

Looks like there's 1 (possibly 2) WAD panels left ... hit me if interested.

Here's a little impression of my freshly built WAD board (CGS208):

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/135140638" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
modintx
nordlead - I received my sets of 555 VCO boards (they look amazing) - do you happen to know if there is a BOM posted anywhere for these?

Cheers!!
nordlead
modintx wrote:
do you happen to know if there is a BOM posted anywhere for these?


fonik is working on build docs, should be available in a couple of days. For the vco pcbs I'd guess you can use the info here, but I haven't checked this. Probably safest to hang on for a little while ...

Also re the component pcb, the order in which you solder / mount things is something to consider before (I haven't done this yet), fonik might have some hints here as well ...

One thing that's different from the Euro-version: if you want the bi-color LED to be off in HI-mode (this is the way it's designed) you need a SPDT switch (hence the bigger cutout in the pcb), if you want to the LED to run in both modes, a SPST switch + linking the other side should work as well.
modintx
Fantastic news - thanks for sharing this! hyper
nordlead
Looks like I screwed up and inadvertently shipped a La Bestia instead of a WAD panel to the US... (hides)

Send me an email or pm if you're in the US and would like to get a La Bestia panel (the last one available actually! It's completely sold out and a couple of people in Europe are one the waiting list...)
bookends
Love the WAD track. Stoked to get these
c1t1zen
My first Muffwiggler forum post shout out...and it only cost me.
nordlead
All orders have been shipped (the last ones were otoskope and Praxiscat on Monday) or cancelled (mostly due to non-responding).

La Bestia is completely sold out, but there is a single La Bestia panel available for shipping within the US only (due to a mistake I made). PM if interested.

There is also some Edelweiss available.

And lately we've been quite busy working on a PSU design which you can pre-order here (limited run)

Jonachi
Just wondering, wouldn't CGS79 be a very suitable PCB to use as ringmod on LA Bestia. Pot passive attenuators on A and Y?

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs79_ring.html
bookends
that psu looks sweet! w00t
mandzaro
Hi,

I'm kinda lost, which Ken’s pcb's are already avaylable.

Could you please list the final pcb’s selection for La Bestia panel ?

Thanks

Martin
Jonachi
Quote:
La Bestia: Dual VCO: fonik 555-VCO set*, X Fader: up to you, fonik*, (possibly Serge X Fader with only 1 output + phone jack) or half of a Serge Stereo Mix from CGS* (tbc), LPG: CGS LPG (doesn't exactly fit the rails), J3RK LPG*, Ring: up to you, CGS67 (?), Fritz 2Q4Q(*), Sowa Ring ...? Serge WaveMult: CGS113, SSG: CGS92, Noise: CGS97, DTG: CGS114, Var Q filter: CGS*, Stereo Mixer: CGS*
modintx
This is what I'm currently thinking:

DUAL 555 VCO - fonik
X-Fader, LPG & Stereo Mixer - J3RK (kindly being worked on / mulled over)
Ring - CGS79, Wave Multi- CGS113, Smooth Step - CGS92, DTG- CGS114, Vari Q VCF (almost ready, if not shipping now from Ken)
Jonachi
modintx wrote:
This is what I'm currently thinking:

DUAL 555 VCO - fonik
X-Fader, LPG & Stereo Mixer - J3RK (kindly being worked on / mulled over)
Ring - CGS79, Wave Multi- CGS113, Smooth Step - CGS92, DTG- CGS114, Vari Q VCF (almost ready, if not shipping now from Ken)


Same here, I'm still considering working on a build document for wiring it to the panel with these PCB's in mind. It comes down to timing though since I'll have plenty to do later on, come summer time. Oyeah, Ken already sells the QVCF so one can order that one from him along with the other PCB's and start working. We'll see when J3rk will have his PCB's ready.
nordlead
Jonachi wrote:
Just wondering, wouldn't CGS79 be a very suitable PCB to use as ringmod on LA Bestia. Pot passive attenuators on A and Y?

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs79_ring.html


Don't see why not - I like the Serge Ring a lot! Since it's already in the WAD panel, I just figured a different one (e.g. the Sowa 4Q ring) would be nice in La Bestia, but that's just a matter of taste Guinness ftw!
oldenjon
modintx wrote:
This is what I'm currently thinking:
X-Fader, LPG & Stereo Mixer - J3RK (kindly being worked on / mulled over)

I don't see why you'd want to use the J3RK fader here.
Its 2" wide and doesn't have VC Gain, so it won't double as an output module.

*edit*
Didn't realize that you probably want to use J3RK's OUTPlus in place of the Stereo Mixer
kbo
Wad panel arrived, so sexy smile
bookends
Got mine yesterday. Thanks!
notimeforlove
Got mine today too. beautiful. thanks!
fonik
still working on the actual build documentation. nevertheless i already uploaded the BOM and the schematics for the VCO PCBs.
i actually never wanted to publish a re-drawn schematic and rather liked to push the people to use thomas original documentation, alas, a few changes and additions have been made to get it to work on 12V and to implement the LFO modification properly, so a re-drawn schematic would be clear things up.
555VCO_4U_BOM.pdf
555VCO_4U_Schematic.pdf
Jonachi
Thank you Fonik! Really looking forward to the build document! we're not worthy
modintx
I second the thank you to Fonik - going to be a fun build applause thumbs up
rekem1000
fonik wrote:
additions have been made to get it to work on 12V and to implement the LFO modification properly, so a re-drawn schematic would be clear things up.
555VCO_4U_BOM.pdf
555VCO_4U_Schematic.pdf


I'm confused here, the 555 pcb's run on 12V now but doesn't the WAd pcb run on 15v?
otherunicorn
WAD is +/-12V, as per all Serge stuff.
fiocz
Animal! If someone would like to sell his La Bestia panel I would be very glad of buying it . I know this is not going to happen but at least I've tried ......in case PM me . Please . Russian Roulette
astroschnautzer
Any plans on making a rerun of La Bestia (and the other panels)?
nordlead
There will be a run of panels in our new 4x4 format shortly, i.e. instead of one full panel you can mix and match 4 panels (each holding 4") in one boat. So La Bestia & Co. will (re)appear in slices.
I will post designs in the next few days, here's the idea:



BTW I believe I still have an Edelweiss and possibly a "Sturm und Drang" (plus WAD and 555 pcbs) left - send me an email if interested.
RustyO
@nordlead : Sent you an email regarding panels.
co87lab
Is the WAD panel available?

I'm in for one!
co87lab

Updated list.

Can someone validate the PCB list?
DomMorley
The WAD is CGS208A (the CGS113 is a wave multiplier). The mixer is on the CGS90 PCB as well as the phaser, and I believe the random is a combination of CGS92 & 97. Timbre is Roman's board, here.

Not 100% on the mixer - maybe someone else can chip in here. Is the new CGS101 good for this one?
otherunicorn
Yes, the CGS101DCSM is the stereo mixer.
DomMorley
otherunicorn wrote:
Yes, the CGS101DCSM is the stereo mixer.


There you go - straight from the unicorn's mouth. hihi
Zergon
Is there a plan for new run?
(looking for Bestia panel)
nordlead
Yes, I've received quite a few requests for another round of La Bestia and Edelweiss, and plan to do another round. w00t

Re La Bestia, the Question is would you prefer to keep it as is (Dial 555-VCO) - then I could start right away - or rather wait for a PCO / NTO solution?
I made some progress on the PCO but it's still unclear how fast it can be fully solved. Also, the Dual 555 in 3" is impossible to beat in density - any other dual VCO would take up more space and require something else to be kicked out ...

Open to suggestions here ... Guinness ftw!
yan6
Im missing a 555 vco in Serge format so I don't mind keeping it original. I would be in for a La Bestia
jpauty
Yeah, la bestia for me too ! Guinness ftw!

Is the variable Q filter sounding different from the 1973 filter (http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs77_vcf.html) ?

I wouldn't mind replacing the wave multiplier by the res eq. This would complete my system in a nice way ! But I guess, it's a rerun, not a christmas list hihi
jarvis
I would also be in for a La Bestia panel!
SMonk
I'd be interested in one La Bestia + one Edelweiss.

Will it be possible to get the 555 PCBs bundled this time too?
Jonachi
Glad to see these might be re-pressed. Hope to see some new full panels as well!

555 VCO is the best, really no need to change it for something else.
m.o
Yep, interested in La Bestia + Edelweiss.

Edit: Plus the required number of 555 VCO cards too if this happens.
mook1709
La Bestia + Edelweiss for me too please. + the 555 PCB.
buffo
I´m interested in one La Bestia + one Edelweiss as well (and 555 pcb if possible).
pre55ure
Would be in for one La Bestia and 555 pcb's as well if this is what you decide on.
Though my preference would be to wait for PCO's.
In for the panel either way though.
jhulk
in for both plus the 555 pcbs
Zergon
so, one La Bestia panel (with 555 vco)
DrKorg
La Bestia + Edelweiss for me too please. + the 555 PCB.
jpauty
On the DTG, would it be possible to add the switch which control whether CV changes rise,fall or both, like on the RandomSource version ? We could drill the holes ourselves, right, but this requires a steady hand or a column drill. hihi
synchromesh
Hi, the price for the 555 PCB set is €32, right? Just trying to figure out whether I can scrape up the
krok
I'm interested in this as well.

1x La Bestia
1x Edelweiss
1x 555 pcb set (if they're available this round)

Thanks!
nordlead
Thanks for your interest and feedback, guys! thumbs up

Here's an idea for the Edelweiss 2015 edition:



This would allow using the following R*S pcb sets (including component pcbs to avoid wiring and stacking):

- 2x DUSG (SMT)
- SSG (SMT)
- RandomSource (= SSG + Noise / S&H in 2" SMT)

Also (through-hole) pcbs for N:COM (rare as a hen's teeth!) and Voltage Processor could be made available, most likely with component pcbs. Can't give any price estimates yet - especially the SMT production depends on the size of the run and makes things not so easy to calculate.

I will also post a pic of La Bestia 2015 soon (including the Dual 555 VCOs) ...

Appreciate your comments! Guinness ftw!
jpauty
Nice ! applause Waiting for La bestia ! Guinness ftw!

Is the N%com the same as a VC divider from CGS ?
nordlead
jpauty wrote:
Nice ! applause Waiting for La bestia ! Guinness ftw!

Is the N%com the same as a VC divider from CGS ?


Thanks, jpauty! thumbs up The N÷COM is the original Serge circuit, one of the next modules to join the Serge by R*S family. I did a first prototype a little while back and then learnt some interesting details from Serge which I plan to reflect in the final board. (I'm not familiar with the CGS VC divider)
oldenjon
nordlead wrote:
The N÷COM is the original Serge circuit, one of the next modules to join the Serge by R*S family. I did a first prototype a little while back and then learnt some interesting details from Serge which I plan to reflect in the final board. (I'm not familiar with the CGS VC divider)


Looks good. Just so you know it's not 'N÷COM', It's '÷N COM' as in 'Divide by N Comparator'. Glad to hear you are doing PCBs, I have a panel (personal project thumbs up) coming that has an NCOM on it too. Will they be CGS cheap?

Also, the Boolean Logic / Pulse Divider is not technically a 'Serge' invention. It was developed by Rex after the formation of STS, i.e. perhaps it should not be branded as Serge?

Cheers
prscrptn
Looks Great! thumbs up
nordlead
prscrptn wrote:
Looks Great! thumbs up


Thanks a lot! Guinness ftw!

oldenjon wrote:
nordlead wrote:
The N÷COM is the original Serge circuit, one of the next modules to join the Serge by R*S family. I did a first prototype a little while back and then learnt some interesting details from Serge which I plan to reflect in the final board. (I'm not familiar with the CGS VC divider)


Looks good. Just so you know it's not 'N÷COM', It's '÷N COM' as in 'Divide by N Comparator'. Glad to hear you are doing PCBs, I have a panel (personal project thumbs up) coming that has an NCOM on it too. Will they be CGS cheap?

Also, the Boolean Logic / Pulse Divider is not technically a 'Serge' invention. It was developed by Rex after the formation of STS, i.e. perhaps it should not be branded as Serge?

Cheers


Thanks, Jon! As I just answered on FB, you're right about the name, I kind of liked the idea of mixing "N-COM" with the "÷" sign, as I find the ÷ at the beginning looks a bit unusual. Actually, I just looked up the old docs where the panel says "N÷COMP", the pcb was named COM (205) (without the P) though ... will probably change that to '÷N COM' as that name seems more common. And I don't have any prices yet.

Re the Logic / Pulse divider - I'm not trying to imply that they are Serge modules (not sure about their origins either) - there were and will be a few non-Serge modules in la Bestia, too, like (obviously / most likely) the Dual 555 VCO. Also I'm not sure who came up with the idea of a Pulse Divider or Boolean Logic first - Rex does include an implementation in some of his panels (which are branded as Serge), however the CGS circuit is a different one anyway AFAIK.
lucid
nordlead wrote:

Here's an idea for the Edelweiss 2015 edition:

This would allow using the following R*S pcb sets (including component pcbs to avoid wiring and stacking):

- 2x DUSG (SMT)
- SSG (SMT)
- RandomSource (= SSG + Noise / S&H in 2" SMT)

Also (through-hole) pcbs for N:COM (rare as a hen's teeth!) and Voltage Processor could be made available, most likely with component pcbs.

yeah, time to enter the serge territory nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!
please make it as much "no wiring" as possible. we're not worthy
not that I cant do wiring, but it is time consuming and sometimes confusing d'oh!
nordlead
lucid wrote:

yeah, time to enter the serge territory nanners It's peanut butter jelly time!
please make it as much "no wiring" as possible. we're not worthy
not that I cant do wiring, but it is time consuming and sometimes confusing d'oh!


It's peanut butter jelly time!

A first batch of ÷N COM pcbs (including component pcbs) has been ordered w00t

I can make them available separately if there is interest ...
oldenjon
nordlead wrote:

A first batch of ÷N COM pcbs (including component pcbs) has been ordered w00t

I can make them available separately if there is interest ...


Yes please thumbs up
lucid
nordlead wrote:
Can't give any price estimates yet - especially the SMT production depends on the size of the run and makes things not so easy to calculate.


Can you at least confirm that it will be available for this Christmas?
m0d01
if you're still checking for interest, I'm 100% in for a La Bestia.

100% on that, too.

hyper

EDIT: and a couple of those NCOM pcbs, too.
nordlead
lucid wrote:
Can you at least confirm that it will be available for this Christmas?


I can get the panels produced in about 3-4 weeks, maybe even faster - what's really hard is to sync this with the production of a number of pcbs, specially with the SMT pcbs. So the easiest way might be to send the panel in production and then ship it with whatever else is available (and ordered ;-) when the panel gets in.

This might mean that shipping cost cannot be optimized by sending everything together, but packaging those full panels is anyway quite a bit of time and effort (they are shipped as express letters and weight limits apply), things would definitely get more complicated if I tried bundle every order as one huge letter ...

Please let me know if this approach would work for you guys.
lucid
nordlead wrote:
So the easiest way might be to send the panel in production and then ship it with whatever else is available (and ordered ;-) when the panel gets in.

For me this might be an option, but I would say that maximum in two shipments. One when panel will be available, with what you will have in stock and second with rest of order. Otherwise I will be lost with what I got and what should still arrive. And it is easier to explain to my wife (hides)
colorbars
Interested in 1 la bestia, 1 edelweiss and pcbs w00t any idea on prices for these yet?
orpheus
hello there!! I'd love to buy 1 la bestia, 1 edelweiss and some pcbs too! SlayerBadger!
rpc
I'm in for 1 la bestia, 1 edelweiss & pcbs as well.
Entrainer
I could be in for both panels + pcbs.

Question though, do you feel having two SSGs + a Random Source between two panels is a bit much?

I could see a mixer or two coming in handy between the Bestia + Edelweiss...
jpauty
There are two cv processor on the edelweiss, which can be used as mixers.

Two SSG I don't know if that's too much. I don't want it to be remove from la bestia though, it's the panel I'm sure to take and I do want an SSG hihi It's a swiss knife module, so maybe you can't have too much of them, like DUSG.
prscrptn
Entrainer wrote:
Question though, do you feel having two SSGs + a Random Source between two panels is a bit much?


Multiple SSG's is great for evolving patterns, add a Random Source and you've got rhythms for days.

It's like having a Creature and Mayhem paired together, a match made in heaven, too much fun! thumbs up
Chaotic
Entrainer wrote:

Question though, do you feel having two SSGs + a Random Source between two panels is a bit much?


No no no no.
I have three SSGs and a Random Source in my system and sometimes all of them are patched as Random sources.
Thats nice and chaotic hihi
Using one random pulse to trig my TPS and another to change the direction of it. (Need some bi-directional switches) I can listen to it in hours hihi
Here Im also use a random pulse for vertical step on the seq.


I have the first run of La Bestia and Edelweiss and the only thing I can say: BUY and Rockin' Banana!
Entrainer
OK, I'm convinced!
nordlead
Quick update - this panal run is quite a logistical challenge - the difficulty is to sync pcb and SMT production with the front panels - right now all companies I work with are really busy, so production times have gone up. I can (most likely) get the front panels done in about 3 weeks, but it’s hard to plan / predict when which pcb can be available too - in particular as I don’t know how many of you are definitely interested and if you want the R*S SMT versions (of the SSG for instance) or prefer to go CGS … Also, SMT production is quite a challenge on the sourcing end which costs a lot of time …

So I’m thinking about simply taking orders for the front panels next week and placing the order for those and then focus on the pcbs step by step and depending on interest - on the pcb side it will be difficult to get production, especially SMT production, done before Christmas - might work with some pcbs, but most likely not all. I already heavily depend on those companies squeezing my small jobs in as a favor (they prefer to do 1000+ batches), and there’s a limit to how often that can be done … (and I’m already stretching that limit anyway). I can't give exact prices for the SMT pcbs yet as this depends on volume and parts needed (some pcbs like the new Stereo Mixer with those THAT and OPA4134 ICs being more expensive than others) - I rough first guess is that a SMT pcb set (front panel pcb + main pcb including all SMT parts) will end up somewhere between € 100 and € 150. Also, I have a couple of (new, some proto) boards for these panels here which I have not been able to test / validate yet - hope to get there by the end of the week ...

Please let me know if this approach works for you (and if you're definitely in as I need to determine the size of the front panel order) - I fully understand that it would be more convenient to have everything ready at the same point in time, maybe even custom so you can pick whatever pcb selection you prefer, but I simply don't see how I can manage that ...

Thanks! w00t
jpauty
What is your proposal for the la bestia ? Same as the one on the first page ?

Do you envision providing panel and component PCB for as many modules as possible (DUSG, SSG, stereo mixer, NCOM) ? This seems highly desirable, considering it removes the tedious wiring step.
SMonk
nordlead wrote:

Please let me know if this approach works for you (and if you're definitely in as I need to determine the size of the front panel order) - I fully understand that it would be more convenient to have everything ready at the same point in time, maybe even custom so you can pick whatever pcb selection you prefer, but I simply don't see how I can manage that ...

Thanks! w00t


Sounds fine to me. I'm definitely in for one each of the panels, at least.
yan6
SMonk wrote:
nordlead wrote:

Please let me know if this approach works for you (and if you're definitely in as I need to determine the size of the front panel order) - I fully understand that it would be more convenient to have everything ready at the same point in time, maybe even custom so you can pick whatever pcb selection you prefer, but I simply don't see how I can manage that ...

Thanks! w00t


Sounds fine to me. I'm definitely in for one each of the panels, at least.



Ya im cool too, also would lik to bump my order from just the la bestia to both panels please. w00t
lucid
Still interested in one Edelweiss panel
edit: Yes and all PCB as they will come in your shop. I will buy them as they will appear in shop. No need to struggle with logistics and savings on shipping.
jpauty
I'll upgrade to one of each + any PCB or smt stuffed PCB possible. No request for the delivery on my side. Make it the simplest for you.
prscrptn
+1 edelweiss panel/pcb's and +1 la bestia panel/pcb's thumbs up
rpc
I'm still in for 1 of each + any pcbs.
pre55ure
Still in for La Bestia Panel + PCB's
and If you do PCB's for Edielweiss I'd be in for those as well (already have a panel from the first run but I'll do whatever I can to avoid wiring.)
After the Holidays is fine by me, splitting the panels and PCB's is fine as well.
krok
I'm ok with the panels & pcbs being shipped separately.

I'm definitely still interested in both the Edelweiss and La Bestia panels. I'm planning on going with CGS, so I'm not really interested in the SMT boards, however I am interested in the ÷N COM and 555 pcbs.

Thanks for making these panels available again!!
colorbars
Definitely still interested in a la bestia and eidelweiss panel (and 555/ncom pcbs if that's what's needed) just a little confused about the SMT PCBS... Do these come already populated/soldered? Would they be available for all the circuits? Could you mix and match with CGS circuits? hmmm.....

I'm leaning towards the CGS route as there seems to be lots of build info from the last run and I'm going to need all the help I can get haha.
mook1709
Yep I want 2 Edelweiss II and 2 La Bestia II panels plus all the SMT PCBs. Thanks
jpauty
Regarding the SMT pcb. If I understood correctly, Nordlead would sell them already populated. At least for the edelweiss, nordlead proposes also to sell pcb for the banana jack and pots, which removes the wiring step. This is a huge PIA that is removed.

There's no reason you cannot use cgs PCB, but you'll have to wire them by hand. I did a Bog and a Swamp and the wiring step is the longest. I was much faster for the Swamp, with an improved technique, but still the wiring is long and error prone.
colorbars
jpauty wrote:
Regarding the SMT pcb. If I understood correctly, Nordlead would sell them already populated. At least for the edelweiss, nordlead proposes also to sell pcb for the banana jack and pots, which removes the wiring step. This is a huge PIA that is removed.

There's no reason you cannot use cgs PCB, but you'll have to wire them by hand. I did a Bog and a Swamp and the wiring step is the longest. I was much faster for the Swamp, with an improved technique, but still the wiring is long and error prone.


Well I'm convinced. Count me in for eidelweiss + la bestia panels AND pcbs thumbs up
orpheus
as krok said,

Quote:
I'm ok with the panels & pcbs being shipped separately.

I'm definitely still interested in both the Edelweiss and La Bestia panels. I'm planning on going with CGS, so I'm not really interested in the SMT boards, however I am interested in the ÷N COM and 555 pcbs.

Thanks for making these panels available again!!


SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
m.o
Still in for Edelweiss and La Bestia panels.

Not sure about smd pcbs or not - I'll try and re-read the last couple of pages...
nordlead
Here's an idea for La Bestia II:



This way the pcb side should be covered completely. The SSG + Noise + Slopes is a bit tricky, but should be possible - I have a DSG prototype here, but not yet tested yet - this pcb should cover the TimeGen functionality and also allow the noise in between, using a single panel pcb for the SSG and the DSG.

VCOs would remain Dual Thomas Henry 555 as in the first edition (or whatever else you deem fit).

I think this would a nice companion for Edelweiss II ... w00t
Rigo
So both La Bestia II and Edelweiss II come with component PCBs ? I think I'm in for both panels with all PCBs ...
Though I am wondering about VCAs, but maybe it's just me not being familiar enough with Serge stuff ?
jpauty
I believe the middle section of the wave mult is a VCA. The stereo mixer is two VCA. The slopes and filters can be used as a kind of VCA, so that's plenty of VCA !
lintfresh
In for one of each panel plus all pcbs!
Rigo
jpauty wrote:
I believe the middle section of the wave mult is a VCA

Now I'm already qualified enough to correct this hihi
www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs113_vcm.html wrote:
The uppermost section is the simplest of the three multiplier sections. but it has two switchable effects. With the switch set at the "HI" position, the module functions to "square-up" an incoming signal. This is not the same as a simple comparator squaring function, though, since there is a rounded flattening of the signal peaks: an effect somewhat similar to overdriving a tube amplifier (except that in this version the process is voltage controllable!). With the switch in the "LO" position, the module is a linear gain controlled VCA. This is useful for various functions such as amplitude modulation and for gating signals into the other sections.
jpauty
That's it Guinness ftw!

Lovely panel ! Glad to see so many timbre modifiers ! Maybe we'll miss the low pass gate, but I guess the two filters are worth it !

SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger! SlayerBadger!
Rigo
jpauty wrote:
Maybe we'll miss the low pass gate

I'm thinking about bananafying some Doepfer modules ...
- VC Polarizer
- Dual Lin/Log VCA
- LPG
- Phaser
- Spring Reverb
- BBD
- Matrix Mixer (if I find banana jacks that are not too deep)
- ...

Looked a bit at the pictures on the Doepfer website, shouldn't be too difficult ... I hope hihi
Zergon
Looking gooooood!! It's peanut butter jelly time!
Rigo
Bump-because-I-was-drooling-at-the-VCFQ-kit-at-Thonk ...

I presume it is exactly the same filter on La Bestia II ?
nordlead
Rigo wrote:
Bump-because-I-was-drooling-at-the-VCFQ-kit-at-Thonk ...

I presume it is exactly the same filter on La Bestia II ?


Yes, the Euro VCFQ and the 4U VFCQ (in the 4x4 "Filterz" module) are identical circuits, just different layouts to match the format. There should be no difference in sound (assuming you use the same components - cap types, op-amps ...)
orpheus
do we know anything about the cost of the panels yet??
nordlead
orpheus wrote:
do we know anything about the cost of the panels yet??


I don't have definitive prices yet as they depend on the size of the run. The price will be slightly above the first runs for a couple of reasons, for instance the improved holes for the Emerson jacks (not round any more, but tailored to the jack so that it can't turn) mean more milling effort - also, I didn't think about paypal fees when I did the first run...

A rough estimate is around € 95 / USD 110 per panel, ideally it would be a bit lower, but I can't promise.
orpheus
That's neat, can't wait!! Guinness ftw! w00t
synchromesh
I'm definitely in for a La Bestia panel, and hopefully in for an Edelweiss panel, as well for as many PCBs as I can scrape up the cash for. This is fun!
lucid
nordlead wrote:
Thanks for your interest and feedback, guys! thumbs up

Here's an idea for the Edelweiss 2015 edition:



...
Appreciate your comments! Guinness ftw!


it is Black Friday so it is worth to ask heretical question: What do you think of using reset input and reset button for divider instead of one inverter pair?
or move random source part close to divider and at the bottom there is room for this reset features for divider... ?
I know panel will soon come back from production :-)
but it is worth to ask or not? Maybe as idea for v3 for future
regenbot
I think it's great idea, i've been missing the reset function on my v1 panel. Might have to mod those.

lucid wrote:


it is Black Friday so it is worth to ask heretical question: What do you think of using reset input and reset button for divider instead of one inverter pair?
or move random source part close to divider and at the bottom there is room for this reset features for divider... ?
I know panel will soon come back from production :-)
but it is worth to ask or not? Maybe as idea for v3 for future
wandering_the_trail
Please count me in on each panel plus all pcbs.
Rigo
Ralf seems to be distracted by Eurorack projects, so I'll give this a bump hihi Just because I can. I even ordered some Befaco kits with bananas to keep me busy ...
lucid
Yes lets bump it to get some news from Ralf
Although I fully understand moving to euro. It is visible on number of likes compared to likes on 4U serge stuff.
We can just hope that he will not completely abandon Serge format. Lets hope he will earn enough to cover expenses dedicated to serge
sad banana
nordlead
Hey guys,

sorry, been quite busy lately, but - the more relevant factor here - is that the companies I work with are more than busy (and about to go on vacation over Christmas), so things on the production side are not so relaxed right now - making planning difficult.

Moreover, just getting the panels made is not much of a problem, the real challenge is on the pcb side - especially anything requiring SMT production. Sourcing alone for a single pcb can be quite a headache (e.g. getting WIMA 1uF film caps in 2220...). The original panel run for La Bestia and Co. was made hoping / requiring some (future) pcb releases, some of which never worked out the way it was planned. So this time I'd like to be sure that the pcbs are actually covered. In some cases, like the SSG ( + Noise Source + S&H) this turned out to be not so easy - took not only about 6 SMT prototypes, finally a stupid mistake on the panel pcb just made me throw away pcbs for a couple of hundred euros ... (Seemingly) small changes like having the DUSG as a 2" version with a fixed duty-cycle Gate out next to the SSG with the Noise Source in between require substantial adjustments, re-layouting and testing (and hiccup potential). Regarding Euro, I'm trying to use the synergies that arise from having both formats - it's easier to justify the effort that went into some of the modules like the SSG if it can be used not only for 4U. So actually euro is a way to subsidize the 4U projects. So (quite a few) things are in the works - with varying focus and intensity - and I've also received some minor, yet very good suggestions regarding the panel layout / module order which I'd like to implement.

In short, over the last 2 weeks or so it became obvious that trying - no matter what - to push La Bestia and Edelweiss through before Christmas break would have just increased the risk of hiccups and disappointment. So I'm hoping that most things are sorted out by beginning/mid January and panel (and pcb) production can start then. Hope this makes sense! (and would rather see this:)

It's peanut butter jelly time!
Rigo
No problem, my birthday is at the end of February cool
Just that it's not always easy not to jump on those euro modules, I'm trying to reduce the amount of euro I have hihi
jpauty
No problem for me either. Your efforts are much much appreciated. we're not worthy
malnatim
jpauty wrote:
No problem for me either. Your efforts are much much appreciated. we're not worthy


yes, thank you! i'm in for both panels and all the pcbs please. also, a psu if there's a 3rd run.
jhulk
yes fully understand as i am doing third run of 1601 sequencers and had same problem every one wants it done before christmas so everything was booked solid

like you end january seems more realistic

looking forward to the finished product

also found a stockist in uk for the that 300 series which work out rather a lot cheaper than the £6-7 each from farnell

so i might be stocking those
jrey8343
I'm in for one La bestia II + PCBs!
mook1709
Mid Jan is good for me.
mook1709
Really looking forward to the release of these new panels
Rigo
How are Edelweiss and La Bestia doing ? Just out of curiosity, have unpacked my Befaco kits today so I will be busy some time. And there's that TKB to finish ... maybe I should dump all my Euro and go bananas only hmmm.....
krelnarb
Yes! Yes! Yes! One each of the Edelweiss and La Bestia along with any associated PCBs' in their most populated SMT state for me please!

Any shipping schedule that's convenient to this project is OK with me.

Thank you!
lucid
krelnarb wrote:
Any shipping schedule that's convenient to this project is OK with me.

You can just guess that is not that far away: Edelweis most of PCB should be tested, although I dont know about DUSG as these are for longer time out of stock. So only divider and logic panel boards are missing if they will ever appear. Coz it was just an optional I think.
and for La Bestia - Smooth stepped was already tested and only dual slopes part is missing. And for the VCO I think there was no change so need to wait until will be back in stock.
Thats is what you can guess from posts on FB
Ralf is doing some more thinks in parallel so it is hard to promise exact date, and he already said that he dont want to promise date and then postpone it. when he is satisfied with the parts he will let us know about "logistics".
Give him time to relax during these days... thumbs up

Edit:With all the words I just want to say that I am happy that someone is taking care about such projects for Serge...

btw I would like to see also some small 4U panel Dual Slopes combined with whatever.
fuzzbass
The start of this thread is: Here are some panels, Ken has the PCBs. By the end is sounds as though PCB designs are being collapsed into new PCBs (?).

Can someone summarize for me where this effort is headed? Or, is that in another thread? Thanks.
Rigo
Some of the PCBs used in the RS Serge Eurorack modules will/could also be used for Edelweiss and La Bestia. With specific panel components PCBs as well. And the SMD parts might be added already. Who wouldn't want relatively easy to make versions of Edelweiss and La Bestia ? w00t
lucid
fuzzbass wrote:
The start of this thread is: Here are some panels, Ken has the PCBs. By the end is sounds as though PCB designs are being collapsed into new PCBs (?).

Can someone summarize for me where this effort is headed? Or, is that in another thread? Thanks.

I dont know how it was with first run of Edelweis and La Bestia, it was too late when I decided to jump on Serge train. Everything was already sold out.
So I am just following second run of these panels and discussion about them.
And this time Ralf offer that he can do most of the modules with PCBs for panel parts for these one which are available only from CGS(this means you can use cgs module pcb with Ralphs panel pcb). It means no wiring, which I like a lot. Something what is common in eurorack format. Modules what he is actually offering in 4U serge format he will offer as option with panel buy, at least I hope he will do so.
And you can see that he did minor changes in design in some of them compared to 1st run. So these needs to be verified before he will offer panels. And I think that will be again only "run" and not available in shop as standard item.
I believe that you can still buy panel only once available and use cgs boards or whatever you have/like.
nordlead
Hey guys, been working on various ends, here's a quick update:

Edelweiss: I lean towards leaving the design as is:



However, I've been thinking about that Pulse-Divider reset suggestion and came up with an idea to have a jumper that would allow to (ab)use the top inverter's input to reset the pulse divider (and still have the inverted reset signal at the inverter's output). Also, people have asked about pcb sets (with component pcbs to avoid wiring) ideally for everything... originally I didn't plan that, but mixing pcbs with component pcbs and having other pcbs hand-wired makes mounting those pcbs a bit tricky as there are no mounting holes for pcbs (of course you can drill your own) - so I'm trying to fill the gaps on the pcb side and currently wait for a proto pcb set for the Pulse Div and Boolean Logic (that includes the jumper) ... however, this is an untested proto so far ...

La Bestia: reflected a suggestion to swap the order for more symmetry and better workflow:



Also, spent quite a bit of time on the SSG + Noise + DSG/DTG section: the new version of the DUSG pcb looks like it's close to final and the layout of a joint component pcb for the SSG + DSG/DTG section (with the Noise in between) is almost done - the Noise in between required quite a bit of change in interfacing the pcbs. The current draft now includes the DUSG in kind of a "Timegen" version (left side) cycling, Pulse out with a fixed duty cycle - no Trig In on the left. Again the virtual wiring needs to be tested / verified, lot's of possibilities to mess something up here! However, some SSG + Noise pcbs are already here, so is the DUSG proto which I'm quite happy with, so if everything works out the SSG + Noise + DSG/DTG section is a slim package: one component pcb + 2 main pcbs (in SMT), no wiring, no stacking ...

The one thing still missing is a component pcb for the wave multipliers - the 4x4 version for CGS doesn't work here as it's 4" wide (including resonant EQ), I may be able to do a component pcb for the new SMT (Euro) Wave Multipliers, have to see if that fits somehow ... so still some ground to cover, but getting there ...

A bit of bad news is that the production company for the panels is already working overtime due to Christmas break and have increased production times - now about 4 weeks... so my current thinking / planning is to go in panel production fairly soon (in a week or 2) and then start shipping panels as soon as I can - with or without pcbs (or what's available then)...

Hope this makes sense!
jpauty
Wonderful !

For the PCB of the wave multiplier. Cannot you use the one you have ? You would have to replace one of the two filters by the ResEq. I've read that the resEq is quite nice and underrated. I would not mind having it instead of a filter, it would save you one pcb design.
nordlead
jpauty wrote:
Wonderful !

For the PCB of the wave multiplier. Cannot you use the one you have ? You would have to replace one of the two filters by the ResEq. I've read that the resEq is quite nice and underrated. I would not mind having it instead of a filter, it would save you one pcb design.


Thanks, jpauty ! thumbs up Yes, (in theory) I could do that, but I'd rather not do any material changes at this stage - I'm sure that would start discussions all over again. The Resonant EQ is an amazing module, but so is the VCFS, maybe even more so as it's quite rare out in the wild and probably adds more flexibility to the panel ...
monno
In the interest of space available in the studio i´d better not, but dang it!

I am in for 1X Edelweiss and 1X La Bestia and relevant pcb´s whenever they become available.

I am in no hurry, but i´ve been meaning to add a little ´nana system to my arsenal and these panels more than fit the bill, so why not? I have to take the plunge at some point.
DomMorley
Please put me down for a Bestia & available pcbs
prscrptn
Both panels look perfect, would not change anything!

Please include me for +1 set of panels/pcb's on both.
aeon_flux
nordlead wrote:

La Bestia: reflected a suggestion to swap the order for more symmetry and better workflow:


i'm not a serge expert but isn't UAP better choice for small self-contained systems? i've found following description in original 1982 serge catalog:

Quote:
The UNIVERSAL AUDIO PROCESSOR (UAP) is the ideal VCA module for small Serge systems because it can function in the following ways:
1. As two independent VCA's with separate signal and control inputs.
2. As one equal-power stereo panner.This panner has one input routed to two outputs, in a proportion which is voltage controlled. The panner can be used for signal routing within a system or for the positioning of sound in a stereo field. A VCA controls the overall amplitude of the output signal.
3. As a voltage controlled cross-fader. As one input signal increases in amplitude at the output, the other decreases.
prscrptn
^ IMHO the UAP only makes sense for a single panel like an Animal.

The La Bestia paired with Edelweiss is near perfect two panel Serge.
orpheus
i would like to update my status and say that I'm in for both panels PLUS all the pcbs will be available! Rockin' Banana!
PixelVampyr
Oh well.. i never should have registered here in the first place.. this is way to good to pass.. so

I am in for 1X Edelweiss and 1X La Bestia and the pcbs
gruvsyco
Interested but would like to know cost.
johnnywoods
one of each for me please... hopefully ??? w00t
peloazul
I am interested in both panels and pcbs, but would need to know (an estimate of) the cost before committing. (All of the Euro format Serge I've built so far is amazing.)
knows
Is this still open for orders? Excuse my ignorance, but would one need to source everything but the panels?
pre55ure
knows wrote:
Is this still open for orders? Excuse my ignorance, but would one need to source everything but the panels?


Yes as far as I am aware the "opening" hasn't happened yet.
And yes you would need to source most everything else, though as the R*S stuff keeps coming out, more and more stuff seems to be moving toward SMD and panel PCB's, so it's hard to say what other components you will need to source.
knows
Cgs serge parts should be available? Right?
jpauty
knows wrote:
Cgs serge parts should be available? Right?


Yes. And the 555 VCO should not use rare part I guess.
knows
Both panels and pcbs for me!
GryphonP3
Interested in Eidelweiss panel + PCBs
m0d01
In for a la bestia and pcbs, if the boards are being sold with the panels. Already got the edelweiss and she needs her sister.

It costs what it costs. Not really concerned about that, but I'm 100% committed. I'm easy.

smile
nordlead
Another update, spent the weekend filling the gaps. Edelweiss is looking pretty good:

DSG: new version of the DSG pcb is now done, waiting for the (last) prototype pcb, also of the new component pcb. SMT

Dual CV processor: made a new layout as a single pcb, that both holds the panel components (pots, jacks) as well as the main circuitry in SMT. Again waiting for the proto board.

Pulse Divider and Boolean Logic: plan is to offer a pcb set (3" panel pcb + 2" main pcb, TH) - big thanks to Ken Stone as the pulse divider is based on his core design of using the 4017s. Proto has been built, pcbs ready to be ordered. Tried the Reset idea (inv input acts also as reset jack) on the proto and like it :-)

NCOM: V1 is already available (requires a fix on the component pcb), V1.1 will fix that and is ready to go in production. TH

SSG / R*S: 2 versions of the same pcb (SMT) - already available as a 4x4 module.

---

What's next? This is a bit of a chicken and egg thing - to calculate the prices, especially for the pcbs, I need to know the number of orders, however, many people find it hard to commit without knowing the final prices... So I'm thinking about starting with Edelweiss as the pcb side seems to be pretty much covered (assuming everything goes according to plan!) and start collecting orders by asking for a deposit of maybe € 30 towards the front panel + an indication as to whether there's interest in getting the pcbs as well (based on a price estimate that is hopefully pretty good).

As soon as those new boards for Edelweiss (DUSG, CV Pro) have been built and verified, I'll focus on La Bestia, where there are also some gaps / questions to cover. In terms of panel production, there is no synergy between the 2 panels, so I may start with Edelweiss and do La Bestia afterwards, simply because handling the pcb side (and SMT production) for one panel is quite a challenge already and again, on the pcb side is hardly any overly / synergy between the panels.
Rigo
w00t Still in for both Edelweiss and La Bestia Rockin' Banana!
PixelVampyr
Great Stuff... thumbs up

All in SlayerBadger!
lintfresh
I'm super down for both and all available pcbs depending on when it happens!
m0d01
No worries. I am still in, but I' was only waiting on La Bestia. Happy to pay deposit whenever the time comes to do that.

Now that I think about it, if you're going to be offering the whole set (pcbs and panels), I'll take a Edelweiss, too. I've already got one of the first ones, but you can never have enough serge/Cgs, imho.

So yeah. I'm in for a set of both la bestia and edelweiss. Panels and pcbs. Let me know when to submit a deposit, if you end up doing that.

Ps: what is the correction you made to the ncom board? I've already got one of the v1 pcbs. How big of a fix would it be to correct my existing ncom board to make it work in the v2 edelweiss?
pre55ure
I'm in for one of each.

Will happily do a deposit.
Just tell me when and where.
lucid
I'm still in for one Edelweiss with all pcbs
jpauty
Still in smile For both with PCB. Ok for the deposit

we're not worthy screaming goo yo SlayerBadger!
monno
Thanks for the update.

I am still in for both panels and would be happy to lay down a deposit when the time comes. In the meantime I am having trouble not being tempted to build more of the euro serge modules.

It will be a busy and expensive year in diy for me.
johnnywoods
still in for both! especially excited that Edelweiss will be first w00t w00t w00t
prscrptn
still in for 1x Edelweiss panel/pcb's & 1x La Bestia panel/pcb's thumbs up
Dogma
As youve gone and done a lot of my faves in Euro i was going to do a couple of 4 x 4 panels but i think these make more sense to me now

La bestia for sure
Edelweiss - nearly 100% smile
waveplant
I'm in for La Bestia panel & PCBs!
megamaeng
I'm in for both panels and pcbs Animal!
orpheus
still in for both panels and pcbs. would be happy to lay down a deposit as well cool
Rigo
Saved this thread, it fell from the first page hihi
How are my birthday presents doing ? Yes, my birthday is this month already
colorbars
Still in for both, have no problem sending a deposit when the time comes thumbs up
otoskope
I'm in for one Edelweiss and one La Bestisa, plus pcbs. Happy to leave a deposit. Thanks for your efforts!
mook1709
I'm still in for everything. Really looking forward to these. Thanks
xonetacular
I may be getting in over my head on this project but i'm in for one Edelweiss and one La Bestisa, plus all pcbs.
rpc
Still in for both & pcbs and can do deposit.
APETECHNOLOGY
INTERESTED in La Bestisa!
xonetacular
and be sure to put yourself down if you'll want boats too: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120028
DomMorley
OK, fuck it. I'm in for an Edelweiss as well. Been umming and ahhing too long.

So both for me (+ whatever PCBs) please.
DomMorley
Hey nordlead, it's been just over a month since your last post. I was wondering if we could get a bit of an update on how it's going? Especially if you've got any info on prices and/or delivery times.

Thanks for all you efforts! we're not worthy
xonetacular
^yeah

In the meantime while I daydream about this stuff- if you were to do a double xl boat setup with these two panels and 4 4x4 modules, which 4 would you pick? Donks and res eq seem like obvious choices, what about the other two?
DomMorley
Just bumping this again in the hope of a reply.

hyper
DomMorley
So now we've seen the NTO is being built (Facebook), is a redesign of La Bestia called for to accommodate this?

seriously, i just don't get it
synchromesh
DomMorley wrote:
So now we've seen the NTO is being built (Facebook), is a redesign of La Bestia called for to accommodate this?

I don't want to speak for Ralf, but the impression I get is that if/when he gets his new NTO (nNTO?) working properly he will consider swapping out the two VCOs in La Bestia for the new module. I daresay he's open to hearing reasoned arguments for and against this position.

But he does seem to be pretty busy, and I'm sure he'll eventually give us an update once he's ready.
APETECHNOLOGY
nto in La Bestia would be amazing!
lucid
APETECHNOLOGY wrote:
nto in La Bestia would be amazing!

corrected: nto in La Bestia will be amazing
Bananallama!
nordlead
Is this what you have in mind? ;-)



Sorry about the long absence here, this project is killing me, still drowning in work on all ends. Quick update:

- Been working on the NTO for more than 9 months now but thanks to weeks in Spice and some very smart people who kindly supported that effort it looks like the end is quite near :-) So the idea of having the NTO in there came up when it looked like a breakthrough in the core at the beginning of the year, however, I wanted to wait till I'm fairly certain that this could work out. Tests look good so far, but are not completed yet. Also, beware that some crazy effort went into that mk2 version of the NTO to get the desired precision on the parts side, meaning this will be SMT and not cheap due to fancy parts, ridiculous part count etc. Can't really give any prices yet, but if I were to wildly guess, I'd say an NTO pcb set (main pcb in SMT with all the SMT parts reflow soldered in and panel pcb) might end up somewhere in the € 150-200 region, hopefully not above. There are some fresh NTO mk2 demos on soundcloud.

[s]https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/251639494[/s]

- Also the new DSG mk2 kept me quite busy but I'm more than happy with the results. Tracking has traditionally not been the strength of the DSG (which by design is not an oscillator), however, I managed to get up to 4 octaves (up to A1 / 440Hz) with the prototype, which should make it much more useful in a tonal sense (if one should wish to do so;-), but more importantly, I believe there is quite an improvement in terms of sound (tempted to call it "audiophile"). Also, the addition of a square wave out (instead of the bipolar one) makes allow more complex waveforms. Here's a sneak demo (singe DSG only, using both sides - no extra filters or similar):

[s]https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/251564290[/s]

And another one exploring the percussive side:
[s]https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/252321349[/s]

Played via keyboard:

[s]https://soundcloud.com/random-source/serge-dsg-tonal[/s]

Would love to hear what you think of the sound! Guinness ftw!

As you can see above, there are also some slight changes to the DTG/SSG/Noise part - squeezing the Noise Source in between required new pcb layouts for the main pcbs as well as a new (joint) panel pcb (which has yet to be tested...):



I realize the delay of this entire panel run may be demotivating (it is for me!), however, as I said before, the front panels are not a challenge, everything that's supposed to go behind them is. So please let me know what you think about these proposed changes, especially about the NTO. For me, sticking to the Dual 555 would mean much less effort, but I have to admit that somehow I have the feeling the NTO belongs in there and makes the panel more consistent ...

Will post updates on the Edelweiss side separately ...
yan6
The NTO does it for me, nice work we're not worthy. Im sure most everyone will be in for an NTO version, where else are you going to find one, right!
DomMorley
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

Nothing more to say. Except ...

PixelVampyr
Wow, just wow!! What a work of art.. will wait for the NTO no questions asked!! thumbs up we're not worthy Rockin' Banana!
mr.sibs
gorgeous!
cyklopljud
Brilliant! nanners
PraxisCat
DomMorley wrote:
we're not worthy we're not worthy we're not worthy

Nothing more to say. Except ...



This.
deltaphoenix
Dead Banana
nanners
It's peanut butter jelly time!
jhulk
nto for me also looks great and being smd is a lot less work for us in building
peloazul
Glorious! Thanks for all you do! grin
xonetacular
Beautiful. I'm down for whatever but I do like the all-serge circuits with the NTO.

So for a 2 panel setup what would you use as an FM source- DSG? It was kinda nice you could fit 2 oscs with the 555 to use one as a modulator.
DomMorley
xonetacular wrote:

So for a 2 panel setup what would you use as an FM source- DSG?


Or you could self-resonate the filter and use that, or the SSG.
Rigo
DomMorley wrote:
xonetacular wrote:

So for a 2 panel setup what would you use as an FM source- DSG?


Or you could self-resonate the filter and use that, or the SSG.

Or think about having more space, for some of the separate 4U modules like the dual 555 VCO or the ResEq ?
Or use a VCO from another modular ?
flabby
Yeah I don't think FM will be a problem when you've got an SSG or use the filters resonating or dual slope if you want FM with tracking.

The dual slopes look great, but I would want them to be able to work as two separate envelopes like the DTG??
prscrptn
The NTO is great but IMHO it does not replace 2 PCO's. Having two separate oscillators allows more flexibility for FM and also justifies having two filters. Self resonating the Q-Filter is wonderful, but it's a waste for FM. You could always lose the variable slope filter and add a second oscillator, but this would make the panel too much like an Animal.
nordlead
Many thanks for your feedback, guys! Guinness ftw!

Regarding a second oscillator: the "Slopes" section in the latest draft contains a DSG/DTG variant that is quite similar to what is elsewhere called "TimeGen Oscillator" - the left side is pre-patched to auto-cycle, i.e. it is more of an oscillator than a slope generator (even more with the improved tracking), therefore I think it's a pretty ideal partner for the NTO. Flip side is that there is only one slope left on La Bestia that can be triggered from elsewhere, but this also makes it a pretty perfect match for Edelweiss V2 with it's 2 (full) DSGs - all of which can again act as oscillators. So while La Bestia and Edelweiss can of course be used standalone, they are really designed as a 2 panel system where La Bestia focuses more on the audio shaping and filtering side. And of course the other comments are right, too, there are more sources that can be used as an oscillator, like the VCFQ and SSG.
nordlead
prscrptn wrote:
The NTO is great but IMHO it does not replace 2 PCO's.


I agree - and that's not the idea. Guess if there is one thing for certain, it's that it is impossible to state what the "best" one or two panel system would look like - it just depends too much on personal taste and preference. Having two oscillators like the Animal means having less of something else (slopes, filters or mixers). I started out with a Creature +Sequencer A and later swapped the Sequencer for a Critter to get an oscillator - and would have preferred an NTO over a PCO, so maybe there's a personal side to this combo, too (and I'm quite a fan of the VCFS) ;-)

For me, the combo Bestia and Edelweiss makes a lot of sense, but one could also expand La Bestia in an XL boat with 2 4x4 modules, eg with a DSG (and CV Pro) or (coming soon) Pulse Divider + Boolean Logic + NCOM ... or even a second NTO ...
prscrptn
nordlead wrote:
...one could also expand La Bestia in an XL boat with 2 4x4 modules, eg with a DSG (and CV Pro) or (coming soon) Pulse Divider + Boolean Logic + NCOM ... or even a second NTO ...


Excellent point and a great idea! thumbs up
sanders
I have a question that's pretty off topic-- but I don't know who else would know besides people who have built these shop panels.

is there someplace or someone I could buy a Wilson Analog Delay PCB?
I wouldn't mind building the whole shop panel, but for the time being, for financial reasons, I'd like to just build the WAD itself.

I have 2 SAD1024s already. I'd def etch the board myself if it was only one layer.

I only want 1 board, does anyone know if they're available anywhere? Or know anyone who bought a handful and won't be using all of them them?
tronabetes
Please put me down for both panels + pcbs. Thanks!
yan6
sanders wrote:
I have a question that's pretty off topic-- but I don't know who else would know besides people who have built these shop panels.

is there someplace or someone I could buy a Wilson Analog Delay PCB?
I wouldn't mind building the whole shop panel, but for the time being, for financial reasons, I'd like to just build the WAD itself.

I have 2 SAD1024s already. I'd def etch the board myself if it was only one layer.

I only want 1 board, does anyone know if they're available anywhere? Or know anyone who bought a handful and won't be using all of them them?


Did you check Elby Designs, they were previously available from Ken Stone, but Elby has since acquired his stock. They were not available from Ken's catalog, you had to ask for them. Might be the same arrangement from Elby.
jpauty
Whoa, an NTO ! Great work nordlead ! Impressive achievement.

I'm of course still in for both panels !
fivesteppath
I am interested in Edelweiss II or La Bestia II.
I am guessing no panels or PCB sets are available for sale yet?
sempervirent
La Bestia II: any chance of putting a Res EQ in place of one of the filters?
mook1709
NTO..Yes..I want.
nordlead
Again, many thanks for the comments and views!

At this point, I'd like to avoid any changes (like EQ instead of VCFS) as this would inevitably lead to some people being less happy / ongoing discussion. There is simply no way to fit all in or find an combination that makes everyone happy. Re La Bestia, it's really designed to be expanded by Edelweiss or maybe 2 4x4 modules in a XL boat, eg. a DSG and Pulse Divider + NCOM.

As an update, looks like the DSG mk2 is now ready to go in SMT production - after weeks of testing / tweaking and experimenting. This was one of the big blocks on the road to La Bestia and Edelweiss II, took way more effort than I expected, but I'm quite happy with the result. Tracking has improved (still not an oscillator, but I could get up to 4 usable octaves in specific settings / circumstances), audio range up to more than 9kHz (or even 13kHz with feedback), but most of all I like sound and the infinite options - from drone machine to FM above 10kHz as shown here:



Here are some demo sounds - to quote what Serge said about this: "The DSUG track is really nice smile - amazing, even. I love how the sounds "morph" from seeming acoustic to electronic in such a subtle manner !"

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/251564290" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

And another one banging away (more demos on soundcloud):

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/252321349" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

So I can't say I'm any less excited about the DSG mk2 than about the NTO. Downside is that all of this is made possible by using some very fine components (that would not have been available back in the day) - unfortunately this also has an effect on the price but I think it's worth it. Sourcing and SMT production is next, should be able to calculate a price fairly soon.

More progress: The Pulse Divider / Boolean logic pcb set is now also ready - big thanks to Ken Stone as the pulse divider's core is based on a design by Ken / CGS. Here's a pic of the proto, main pcb 2" wide + 3" panel pcb:



Last not least: the ÷N COM is seems to be ready as well - finally. Turns out that not having a reference unit to compare against makes things rather difficult - the first version(s) of the ÷N COM pcb contain some errors that remained undetected. Thanks to a very kind fellow wiggler and Serge aficionado these could now be sorted out, corrected pcbs will be available soon. If you have already bought an ÷N COM pcb, do not build it, I will replace that pcb for free if you pick up the shipping cost. Very sorry about this hiccup, but I'm glad it was now discovered.

A couple of SSG and Random Source (= Extended SSG) pcbs are here - already available as a 4x4 kit, so it looks like Edelweiss II is pretty much covered :-)

How this will (hopefully!) work:

I'll try to get a page for Edelweiss II / La Bestia II ready where you can pre-order the panels, beginning with Edelweiss most likely - by placing a deposit (=an order) of probably € 30. This is a non-refundable deposit, however, you will simply get your money back should the run not happen for any reason. The idea of the non-refundable deposit is to get a good picture of the real interest/orders.

Assuming there is enough interest, I will order the panels and try to make the pcbs (sets) available on that page, too, step by step. This means not everything might be available at the same time, but also that you can go step by step as some people have asked. I simply cannot guarantee stock levels etc in respect of the pcbs, especially those SMT pcbs. Also, the panels are big and a PITA to ship, not sure if shipping any pcbs or SMT pcbs is really viable (unless shipping as a parcel which will be much more expensive overseas). So shipping will have to be figured out ...
GryphonP3
Put me down for both panels. Pm me when you need a deposit!
Vsyevolod
My 2 cents about using the DTG as a TimeGen Oscillator. I've been using one in my STS Creature M-odule for the past several years and I still find myself wishing there was a Trig In on the left side. Losing one (to me) very important function on the left just to make a cycle switch for the right is a poor trade off in terms of versatility. I tend to not use any of my Cycle switches (I have 5 Transient Generators with switches out of a total of 14) though I've got a nice collection of shorting bars with nana inputs on them which is almost as easy as flipping a switch yet gives me constant access to Trig Ins without any muss or fuss.

But the main reason I don't care for the left side being perpetually on is that the sound of the oscillator bleeds through into my main outputs, both as an LFO and up in the audible range. I end up keeping it at around 20 or 25 Hz so that I'm not hearing a pitch, nor am I hearing a lot of clicks. Jon Peters mentioned that it probably needs a shielded cable connecting it to the TimeGen Output jack to avoid that.

Of all the different flavours of DTG that Rex has come up with, this is the one I wish I didn't have.

In general, my other DTG's that have cycle switches, do so at the cost of the bipolar input (though not the case with the TimeGen Osc). Something that I can easily enough change out in the future, though if I were building one, I'd mos def make it with the most flexibility over convenience any day of the week. Shorting bars are the bees knees BTW. The cat's meow... the royal shizznit...

Stephen




.
nordlead
You got some excellent points there, Stephen. I also find it quite annoying that the left side of the TimeGen in the Creature does have an audible influence on the right side. This has to do with the "Gate" (= pulse) output on the left, which is *not* the same as the Gate on the right. In general, a square (or rect) wave is a challenge and due to the overtones, prone to emit lots of stuff that ends up where you don't want it - and the better (sharper) the square, the worse it gets. Also, this square wave cannot be patched into TRIG IN to cycle the unit, i.e. it's not so easy to give up the auto-cycle (you would need a TRIG IN + a cycle switch or the normal GATE out as well) - that's a problem in 2". On the pro side, you get a square wave with a fixed duty cycle that tracks as well (or poorly) as the unit. You cannot get both from a DTG - there it's either the duty cycle or tracking.

With the new DSG mk2 I was on the fence for a long time but found that a PULSE out (with a fixed duty cycle) opens up amazing possibilities and simply sounds different (clearer, more like a true square wave) when compared to the regular Gate out. It expands the DSG more into oscillator direction (as now you have 2 usable outputs that track as well as the unit can. Now especially with improved tracking and the other changes, this is a big pro and allows to get amazing waveforms like this:



Regarding the downside - it was quite a headache but (again thanks to Spice and lots of testing) I think I found a way so that the influence on the other side is very little / barely noticeable (in the Creature the influence seems to come through the power rails, as the slow cycling of the square acts kind of like a sledge hammer to the power supply, but radiation/emission may also an issue). The DSG mk2 uses a different approach and also tries to separate both sides of the DSG as far as possible (symmetrical design to have kind of 2 separate circuits with split ground planes). So in the end I figured the added possibilities are incredible and I hope to have eliminated that issue to a large part.
Vsyevolod
nordlead wrote:
This has to do with the "Gate" (= pulse) output on the left, which is *not* the same as the Gate on the right.


Fascinating... could you elaborate on the above? I was under the assumption that the left side just internally patched the Gate Out to the Trig In.

Stephen




.
Synesthesia
still in for both... i kind of miss the gate sequencer from Edelweiss 1 to Edelweiss 2.

I like that you are going with the panel with deposit - and then pcb. it gives freedom for people to make them as fast as finance allow - etc.

anyway, i am in. looking forward to it.

only thing maybe .... why not started by La bestia since it is the main beast ?: smile
xonetacular
Awesome.

I've been building 4x4s of what I can get my hands on in the meantime since I couldn't wait for these to start getting my feet wet:



I like the idea of releasing pcbs as they are ready- I know I would like to get started.
GryphonP3
xonetacular wrote:


I like the idea of releasing pcbs as they are ready- I know I would like to get started.


+1 for this!
nordlead
Vsyevolod wrote:
nordlead wrote:
This has to do with the "Gate" (= pulse) output on the left, which is *not* the same as the Gate on the right.


Fascinating... could you elaborate on the above? I was under the assumption that the left side just internally patched the Gate Out to the Trig In.

Stephen


Stephen, you're right as to how the CYCLE is made (= internally patched), however, the slope setting (Rise = MAX, Fall = variable) causes the "normal" Gate to be very thin, like a 2% duty cycle (as you can test on any DSG / DTG) - not terribly useful as a audio signal. That's probably why (only) a separate pulse with a fixed duty cycle of appr. 50% is available at the Creature's front panel. Unfortunately the Creature's tracking is rather poor (at least on my unit), so it's use as an oscillator for tonal music is a bit limited: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTFBbYRAQHU
Synesthesia
Any change to squeeze the Extended ADSR somewhere ? smile
Mongo1
Sign me up for both panels, pcbs etc...
Looks like just what I needed!

Gary
sundog
Looks fantastic. Sign me up for an Edelweiss panel and PCBs please. Happy to pay a deposit.

Al
xonetacular
bump in hope of update
GryphonP3
xonetacular wrote:
bump in hope of update


Eagerly awaiting an "ok" to send my $$!! Love the little improvements implemented. Edelweiss is such a perfect panel. Exciting to see the NTO on the La Bestia (even though I already have 2, NTOs are just that good!)
xonetacular
yeah would love to get started

liking the little 4x4 boat I finally got running but it needs more.

could really use a couple xl boats too
nordlead
Hey guys, sorry about the pauses in between updates, but it's really hard to find the time to handle not only the layout and production side, but also take pictures, make demos, update the website, get the docs ready etc.

Anyway, picked up the DSG mk2 boards yesterday, so it looks like the last missing piece for Edelweiss II is now here. w00t



I've just updated the 4U page that the DSG mk2 is now available, including the build doc and some pics demos: http://randomsource.net/serge#dsg

The 2" Serge CV processor is here, too (in SMT featuring a pair of OPA2134s).

The Pulse Divider and Boolean Logic pcbs are also here now - again big thanks to Ken Stone! thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up - this is through-hole, like the

(new) NCOM - the previous version of the NCOM contained some errors, so if you bought one of these, I'm happy to replace it with the new version if you pay for shipping and handling. (Please send me an email to arrange this).

A bunch of SSG and Random Source pcb sets are also (still) here (both SMT boards).

So apart from the Edelweiss front panel - all the pcbs are here right now (in different quantities).

Regarding the front panel - I ordered a prototype to check out a slightly different material (which is supposedly even nicer) which arrived to days ago, unfortunately they used the correct material, but the wrong finishing which kind of defeated the purpose. However, I also have a sample of the correct (unprinted) aluminum, so this is just an inconvenience ...

What's next?

I'll try to set up an (order) page for Edelweiss II shortly where the front panels can be pre-ordered (by placing a deposit) and
the pcbs which are in stock can be ordered right away. Here's a first indicative price list - to be confirmed! -:

All prices in Euro excluding shipping:

DSG mk2 (SMT) - "contemporary" version: 180
(Dual) CV-Pro (SMT): 35
DSG mk2 (SMT) - "classic" version: 180
NCOM (TH): 25
Pulse Div + Boolean Logic (TH): 50
SSG + RS (SMT): 220

(All these include panel pcbs where applicable, i.e. there is no wiring required, also no mounting rails, hinged standoffs etc.)

Edelweiss II panel: 100 (deposit: 30)

If my math is right, that should mean a total of 790 for the panel and all the pcbs.

Boats are also in production right now and should be available again soon:

Boat (regular) + PSD pcb: 150
Boat (XL) + PSD pcb: 220
xonetacular
^^^^ we're not worthy

will the new material match the old 4x4 module finish? the panels are already pretty nice. just want them to be consistent next to the old 4x4s.
lucid
nordlead wrote:

DSG mk2 (SMT) - "contemporary" version...
...
DSG mk2 (SMT) - "classic" version...

How about panel? Is it adjusted in the way that one DSG is classic and another one contemporary?
nordlead
xonetacular wrote:
^^^^ we're not worthy

will the new material match the old 4x4 module finish? the panels are already pretty nice. just want them to be consistent next to the old 4x4s.


Good point! This is really a difficult subject - the new material is slightly brighter, quite close to the STS panels - also quite similar to the original Edelweiss, but the production company claims that Edelweiss I and the 4x4 modules are the same material. Anyway, the differences are rather subtle and the perceived brightness always depends on the lighting / angle.
nordlead
lucid wrote:
nordlead wrote:

DSG mk2 (SMT) - "contemporary" version...
...
DSG mk2 (SMT) - "classic" version...

How about panel? Is it adjusted in the way that one DSG is classic and another one contemporary?


Another good point - current planning is to have "OUT 2" on both DSGs so that they can be configured to taste - the color of banana jack shows which type it is anyway.
Dogma
Nordlead - ive sent you an email about La Bestia ii order smile

Has anyone gathered mouser carts for either La Bestia or Edelweiss ii yet??
im trying to cost out the build as i can nearly afford both panels - so roughly 790 for PCBs and Panel - any idea of how much it will cost with all up?
nordlead
I've just set up an info / order / status page for Edelweiss II (and soon La Bestia II) - this is work in progress, so please excuse any errors - :

http://randomsource.net/serge_panels

That means you can now pre-order the Edelweiss II front panel by placing a non-refundable deposit of € 30 on that page.
That deposit counts towards the panel price (expected to be € 100, hopefully a little less) and will by simply repaid through paypal if the run should not happen because there's not enough interest (which does not look like it right now).

Right now, all the pcbs for Edelweiss II are in stock and a new batch of boats has arrived yesterday... w00t
lucid
nordlead wrote:

That means you can now pre-order the Edelweiss II front panel by placing a non-refundable deposit of € 30 on that page.

w00t It's peanut butter jelly time! w00t nanners w00t It's peanut butter jelly time! w00t nanners w00t It's peanut butter jelly time! w00t

edited 6.5.2016:
...and finally PAID
Rigo
Is it best just to pre-order the panel, and place an order for the pcbs later ?
Or can I just order everything at once now ?
xonetacular
what's the stock situation like on the available pcbs and xl boats? definitely want to order while they are available but this is bad timing for me at the moment.
peloazul
xonetacular wrote:
what's the stock situation like on the available pcbs and xl boats?


Similar question, but for me, will R*S PSUs be in stock again any time in the near future? I'm super psyched to start in on It's peanut butter jelly time! but my only power at the moment is in Euro.
jpauty
Guys you think too much ! hihi

I just ordered all the PCB and the panel ! Rockin' Banana! Rockin' Banana!
APETECHNOLOGY
PAID! FOR panel and pcb,s
super excited about Edelweiss II!
thanks for your hard work.! we're not worthy
nordlead
Thanks for the support and feedback, guys! Guinness ftw!

Based on the resonance within the last few days, it looks like it should be no problem to reach the the number of (pre-)orders needed for the Edelweiss II run to happen w00t
jpauty
Great ! For a second I feared that I'll have to source the panel myself ! SlayerBadger!
Dogma
How many people are gonna 100% get a La Bestia ii? i think Nordlead needs numbers.....
2 for me (one for a friend)
Zealot Vague
Are there BOMs for the Edelweiss (II) modules that aren't listed in the Serge section of the site? Do any of them involve pre-assembled SMT?

edit: derp, that info is up there on the order page... either I didn't notice it or it was updated (thanks).
GryphonP3
I'm having trouble figuring out how to order.. DonInjust do it all via PM? Cant find panels or raw PCBs w/o faceplates anywhere on the website.
pre55ure
GryphonP3 wrote:
I'm having trouble figuring out how to order.. DonInjust do it all via PM? Cant find panels or raw PCBs w/o faceplates anywhere on the website.


Go here http://randomsource.net/serge_panels

and scroll down. thumbs up
gruvsyco
Curious what the intended availability of the PCBs are. For example, are any of the PCBs limited runs or are they all going to be regularly stocked.

I'm wondering because I have some other Serge panels (someone else) I'm having difficulty locating boards for now that it's like a year later.
lucid
only what I am missing is BOM for Pulse Divider and Boolean Logic. I read somewhere that it is not the same as Ken Stones version although it was based on it... Or am I wrong? hmmm.....
w00t
jpauty
There was a link in the message of Nordlead, but it was in green font, so not so clear that that was a link. Here it is:

http://randomsource.net/serge_panels
Dogma
La Bestia ii takers? smile
Randy
It seems to me that the original La Bestia would be better than the La Bestia II, at least for someone new to Serge. The original has two oscillators and one filter but the II seems to have one oscillator and two filters.

Or maybe I'm missing the whole point of Serge?

Randy
medbot
I think the idea is that the second VCO is less necessary since both sides of the SSG and both Slope Generators can be set to oscillate and track with CV control, and then you get sine waves from the filters. Man I wish I could afford these!
Zealot Vague
Are the modules on the panel page also preorders (contingent on the Edelweiss II happening) or are they already in stock?
jpauty
If you can order them on the page, I believe it means they're in stock.
colorbars
Is it possible to complete this panel with mostly CGS pcbs? Is the N COM the only exception? hmmm.....
synchromesh
colorbars wrote:
Is it possible to complete this panel with mostly CGS pcbs? Is the N COM the only exception? hmmm.....


I think you can get the same functionality* (although the DUSG is described as a "mk2" version), but Ralf has been tweaking the designs to improve performance (stability, tracking etc.), using e.g. THAT VCAs & transistor arrays and Burr-Brown op-amps. So I'd say his boards are definitely to be preferred where possible.

Also, Ralf is doing panel PCBs (or as he calls them, "component PCBs")! No more hand-wiring each and every jack, LED and switch!

I'm not 100% sure that the "CV Processor" is effectively two CGS04 DC Mixers [EDIT: actually it's a CGS81 Voltage Processor, thanks colorbars], but everything else should be available as a CGS PCB:

2 x CGS114 DUSG
1 x CGS36 Pulse Divider and Logic
1 x CGS92 Smooth/Stepped Generator
1 x CGS97 Noise Source

La Bestia II is a different story. There's the much-anticipated New Timbral Oscillator, of course. The Variable Slope VCF is not available as a CGS PCB.

The CGS101 Dual Channel Stereo Mixer (including two CGS102 Equal Power Panners and four CGS108 Gain Cells) and the CGS112 Variable Q VCF (with another three CGS108s) are currently available from Laurie "Elby Designs" Biddulph, but I haven't seen them anywhere else.

(*That's what my cursory research suggests, anyway -- I could be wrong.)
colorbars
Possibly the CGS81 instead of 2x CGS04?
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs81_proc.html
synchromesh
Indeed! Like I said, cursory research. This is fun!
jpauty
The VC divider could be used in place of the N%COM. Not exactly the same functions but the panels features more or less match. That's what was done for the bog panel. Easiest route is to buy the NCOM pcb from RandomSource.

http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs09_vcd.html
zdarma
Will any of these new pcbs and panel pcbs work with the v1 of Edelweiss?

It looks like the layout for the DSG might be the same, and maybe SSG, but other than that there is not much overlap.
It might be easier to get the new panel, probably less wiring.
xonetacular
fuck it- ordered 2 xl boats, panel, and pcbs

so who wants to put together an edelweiss ii mouser bom? you don't want me doing it...
Cablebasher
I am very excited about the Beast panel and boards. Will this be the first time the Serge NTO has been avalible as a DIY project?
xonetacular
Dogma wrote:
La Bestia ii takers? smile


yes. what are you worried about though? it's not going to be a problem getting enough people.
Zealot Vague
Ah well, ordered all the Edelweiss SMT boards. MY ASS IS BLEEDING I can't possibly afford everything in one go and I reckon the through-hole modules are going to be easier to keep in stock in the future so I run less of a risk of being left without them.
m.o
Right, ordered panel (prepay) + the boards.

MY ASS IS BLEEDING
appliancide
medbot wrote:
I think the idea is that the second VCO is less necessary since both sides of the SSG and both Slope Generators can be set to oscillate and track with CV control, and then you get sine waves from the filters. Man I wish I could afford these!


That makes sense to me, though I find the dual slopes module a bit odd myself. To me a DTG style layout would be a bit more flexible, but I'm sure there's a reason for this setup as well...

edit: Of course there is! I just took a few minutes to scan through the posts about the design process and decisions involved. Nice job guys!
Vsyevolod
medbot wrote:
I think the idea is that the second VCO is less necessary since both sides of the SSG and both Slope Generators can be set to oscillate and track with CV control...


Not true, only the upper half of the SSG oscillates. The lower half needs a clock input (oscillator or LFO) to work.

Stephen




.
Dogma
i was about to get some cash for a big order but its been pushed back a mnth but it got me thinking - Random*Source is gonna keep restocking both the euro and 4U pretty much indefinitely from now on? Would make planning a lot easier for me...ie in a year from now (barring unforseen circumstances) will i be able to keep fleshing out my Serge system?
Zealot Vague
You can always fall back on CGS PCBs, although they look like a lot more work.
nordlead
colorbars wrote:
Is it possible to complete this panel with mostly CGS pcbs? Is the N COM the only exception? hmmm.....


The panels are designed to be built with R*S pcb sets, i.e. using the panel pcbs. This means for instance that there are no mounting holes (needed), no standoffs, power rails or similar. Also, there is no stacking of main pcbs, keeping the build nice and shallow. I don't think a conventional RandomSource (module) build (having a Serge Noise on top of an SSG, both hand-wired) would fit in an R*S boat, for instance.

Also, the R*S versions may be different in terms of UI (panel components), like the DSG mk2 with separate CV for rise and fall. Often the pcbs / circuits are not identical to previous / other boards, the DSG mk2 is kind of a DSG (mixed with a TimeGen Osc) on steroids, different in frequency range, tracking, audio paths, the new Square output on the comtemporary version etc. The Dual CV Pro is actually a Serge circuit (which contains a nice diode clipping part) pimped up with Burr-Brown op-amps so that it's also great for audio use (i.e. not a CGS81). SSG is also quite different in terms of audio (range) ...

The reason the panel and the pcbs are listed separately on the website (rather than a single set) is that some people prefer to go step by step and also that I cannot guarantee availability of all pcbs at all times, but the idea is not to sell bare panels.
xonetacular
Since there's a tayda 15% discount going on for the next few days I'm looking to order all the pots for both panels

can you tell me which pots the NTO uses?

and the audio mixer on bestia? I'm guessing also b50k/b100k but just want to make sure
nordlead
Randy wrote:
It seems to me that the original La Bestia would be better than the La Bestia II, at least for someone new to Serge. The original has two oscillators and one filter but the II seems to have one oscillator and two filters.

Or maybe I'm missing the whole point of Serge?

Randy


There has been some discussion about NTO vs Dual-555 a little while ago when I first brought up the idea. While there are pros and cons for each approach, the main aspects to go NTO (at least that's the current plan) are:

* NTO is quite rare and amazing ;-)
* NTO's waveshaper is unique
* Serge is less about oscillators and more about SSG/DSG etc.
* NTO makes La bestia II a more consistent ("Serge") panel.
* La Bestia is designed to be expanded by Edelweiss II, that will add lots of slopes (i.e. aux oscillators)
* The left side of the 2" DSG version in La Bestia is another secondary oscillator.

As Stephen pointed out earlier, the TimeGen Osc in the Creature has the unpleasant characteristic that the left side has a quite audible influence on the right side. The new DSG mk2 avoids this effect to a large extent, so the 2" DSG in La Bestia is kind of like a TimeGen oscillator (with improved tracking and audio specs) without the side effect, and as such also a great partner for the NTO.
malnatim
La Bestia II looks amazing. i'm really looking forward to NTO. Edelweiss II 1st…. exciting times! BIG thanks for all your work on these.
Vsyevolod
nordlead wrote:
As Stephen pointed out earlier, the TimeGen Osc in the Creature has the unpleasant characteristic that the left side has a quite audible influence on the right side.


Not just influencing the right side, but bleeding into the audio path of other modules on other panels, even when the TGO is not patched!

Big up's to Ralf for tackling this problem head on!

Stephen




.
Zealot Vague
What are the specs/dimensions (pitch) of the SIL headers listed in the various BOMs? I don't know what kind to order.
xonetacular
Zealot Vague wrote:
What are the specs/dimensions (pitch) of the SIL headers listed in the various BOMs? I don't know what kind to order.


2.54mm
Zealot Vague
Thanks! Another dumb newbie question. The SSG/Random Source specifies an SPDT off-(on) switch but isn't that an oxymoron? DT = on-on but on-off = ST, n'est-ce pas? hmmm.....

edit: I found the datasheet for the button they recommend, it's on-(on). Nevva mind.
peloazul
DT = double throw and ST = single throw; they refer to how many positions can be switched between.
xonetacular
are there docs for the divider and boolean logic anywhere?
xonetacular
nordlead wrote:
xonetacular wrote:
^^^^ we're not worthy

will the new material match the old 4x4 module finish? the panels are already pretty nice. just want them to be consistent next to the old 4x4s.


Good point! This is really a difficult subject - the new material is slightly brighter, quite close to the STS panels - also quite similar to the original Edelweiss, but the production company claims that Edelweiss I and the 4x4 modules are the same material. Anyway, the differences are rather subtle and the perceived brightness always depends on the lighting / angle.


Hmm to follow up on this I really wish edelweiss ii/bestia matched the original 4x4s and just kept the same material. If that's true I just saw some 4x4 modules next to sts panels and it def looks different. It's subtle but noticeable enough to be annoying- would have been nice to have a more consistent looking randomsource system.

sts left, r*s 4x4 right



if it ain't broken....
nordlead
xonetacular wrote:

Hmm to follow up on this I really wish edelweiss ii/bestia matched the originals and just kept the same material.


This will probably be the case - but it's a complicated matter I've already spent hours discussing with more than one production company across Europe in the last months. It's not just the material (i.e. aluminum mix), but also batch of raw material, the finish, the anodization (duration), and a number of other factors that determine the final look. STS is not a reference here for R*S as those panels are done in a different process, using thinner sheets (1.5mm instead of 2mm) etc. However, based on recent discussions, it now looks like we'll stick to the aluminum mix and finish rather than switch to a new material, so no significant changes to the R*S look to be expected.
w00t

PS: when looking at that picture, please note that with aluminum, the surface (finish) and the (light) angle makes a huge difference, so it's very easy to have the same panel look darker or lighter depending on the actual point of view (and lighting).
xonetacular
excellent, good to hear
aeon_flux
just one observation about upcoming la bestia ii. i see smooth/stepped generator in/outs are redesigned in a way shorting bar can be used for cycle mode (CYCLE into IN).

just wondering if it is not to late to do same thing for variable q vcf for secondary vco duty (BAND into IN)?

i believe it is not a coincidence in 1982 serge?

wavecircle
Would it be possible to add a crossfade CV on the Variable slope VCF?
The Disquiet
xonetacular wrote:


sts left, r*s 4x4 right





I recognise that system (and that hand) lol

http://www.instagram.com/p/BFgw29rioyC/
krelnarb
I just deposit-tated on a panel! It's peanut butter jelly time!

I hope there's PCBs around when work picks up next month. Trying to avoid (more) synth debt. sad banana
Rigo
nordlead wrote:
Based on the resonance within the last few days, it looks like it should be no problem to reach the the number of (pre-)orders needed for the Edelweiss II run to happen w00t

What 's the state of things now ?
nordlead
Rigo wrote:
nordlead wrote:
Based on the resonance within the last few days, it looks like it should be no problem to reach the the number of (pre-)orders needed for the Edelweiss II run to happen w00t

What 's the state of things now ?


Edelweiss II will happen, there are enough pre-orders w00t - I was hoping to get aluminum samples to check/confirm the anodisation / finish yesterday, but due to the holiday / long weekend it didn't work out, so it will be Monday or Tuesday. Assuming those look good, production will take about 3 weeks.

I have already started shipping pcb sets and will continue to do so in order to avoid having to ship everything at once (due to the size the panels are not so easy to package and ship, same goes for the SMT pcbs).
Rigo
w00t indeed cool
Rigo
Just a link to The Disquiet's test of a DSG Mk2:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=162238
Zealot Vague
nordlead wrote:
Edelweiss II will happen, there are enough pre-orders w00t - I was hoping to get aluminum samples to check/confirm the anodisation / finish yesterday, but due to the holiday / long weekend it didn't work out, so it will be Monday or Tuesday. Assuming those look good, production will take about 3 weeks.


Well, siehen sie gut aus? hyper
GryphonP3
synchromesh wrote:

Also, Ralf is doing panel PCBs (or as he calls them, "component PCBs")! No more hand-wiring each and every jack, LED and switch!


Wait, these entire panels have PCB-mount jacks/switches/pots? No wiring? Wow, that makes it crazy easy nanners
Rigo
nordlead wrote:
I have already started shipping pcb sets and will continue to do so in order to avoid having to ship everything at once (due to the size the panels are not so easy to package and ship, same goes for the SMT pcbs).

Should I have had my PCB's already ? I have no problem in waiting for them to ship together with the panel ...
nordlead
GryphonP3 wrote:
synchromesh wrote:

Also, Ralf is doing panel PCBs (or as he calls them, "component PCBs")! No more hand-wiring each and every jack, LED and switch!


Wait, these entire panels have PCB-mount jacks/switches/pots? No wiring? Wow, that makes it crazy easy nanners


Yes (actually I'm starting to call them panel pcbs to avoid misunderstandings) - wiring is only needed for switches as the normal type are too high, but that's not really wiring either ... (and no need to align the banana jacks as the holes are tailored so that they can't rotate w00t )

Rigo wrote:

Should I have had my PCB's already ? I have no problem in waiting for them to ship together with the panel ...


Some pcb orders have been shipped and I will continue to do so - whether shipping together is an option is not very clear yet / depends on the destination. The sheer size of the panels means I may have to ship it as a letter as a parcel might end up being quite expensive... Also some people have expressly asked to have the pcbs shipped upfront, trying to do that.

Quick update: Edelweiss is in production, should be here in 2-3 weeks. Rockin' Banana!

Also, some 4x4 panels are in that production run, including some new ones (Sequencer 8).

And I've received unconfirmed reports from people claiming they got the DSG mk2 to track more than 4 or even 5 octaves...

In the meantime I did some more DSG explorations, eg Dual DSG mk2 ...
[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/266445108" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

... into FM (dual DSG mk2 with Filterz and Stereo Mixer):
[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/268751407" params="color=ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments= true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false" width="100%" height="166" iframe="true" /]

or DSG as a VCA vs Serge X-Fader(!):
[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/267865519" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_use r=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]
Rigo
nordlead wrote:
Some pcb orders have been shipped and I will continue to do so - whether shipping together is an option is not very clear yet / depends on the destination. The sheer size of the panels means I may have to ship it as a letter as a parcel might end up being quite expensive... Also some people have expressly asked to have the pcbs shipped upfront, trying to do that.

Quick update: Edelweiss is in production, should be here in 2-3 weeks. Rockin' Banana!

Also, some 4x4 panels are in that production run, including some new ones (Sequencer 8).

Hmm, should I really start selling of all my euro ? That would solve my space problems hihi
xonetacular
so will the sequencer 8 kits be ready with pcbs when the edelweiss panel is ready?

still would like to get my boats (and pcbs I guess) first but will have to get one of those too if it's ready when the panel is.
nordlead
xonetacular wrote:
so will the sequencer 8 kits be ready with pcbs when the edelweiss panel is ready?

still would like to get my boats (and pcbs I guess) first but will have to get one of those too if it's ready when the panel is.


Yes, more or less - the Sequencer / Programmer 8 panels should arrive at the same time (pcbs are in SMT production right now), but I also need some time to do another test build, prepare the docs etc. (and I'll be pretty busy shipping the Edelweiss orders!).
xonetacular
I might just grab it later then- going to be pretty busy anyway myself
Rigo
For some reason I'm looking even more forward to this Miley Cyrus
Rigo
nordlead wrote:
the Sequencer / Programmer 8 panels should arrive at the same time (pcbs are in SMT production right now), but I also need some time to do another test build, prepare the docs etc. (and I'll be pretty busy shipping the Edelweiss orders!).

Is the facebook page the only source for hot news ? I can't see it because of some judicial problems facebook is having in(or with) Belgium. And I don't want to become a member of the facebook herd hmmm.....
DomMorley
Rigo wrote:
For some reason I'm looking even more forward to this Miley Cyrus


hihi
m.o
Polite bump for update on the Edelweiss II and the PCBs.
(paid and waiting)
nordlead
OK, here's an update (would have posted one in a few days anyway):

Got shipping info for the Edelweiss panels yesterday, i.e. the panels should arrive here on Monday or Tuesday. w00t

Also, the Sequencer 8 boards have just come back from SMT production - that should be an ideal companion for an Edelweiss in an XL boat:



The Sequencer 8 front panels should arrive together with Edelweiss II. MY ASS IS BLEEDING

So shipping should commence in a few days ...
nordlead
Edelweiss II panels have arrived, looking good! w00t

If you pre-ordered (by paying a deposit), please pay the remainder now to that your order can be shipped. There should be no additional shipping cost when only ordering the remainder - you may have to reload the page if shipping cost is added. Please let me know if you run into any shop issues.

http://randomsource.net/serge_panels
Zealot Vague
Yaaaaaaaay! It does still add shipping costs though. hmmm..... I'll relook in the morning when I'm sober.
m.o
Great!
screaming goo yo
lucid
nordlead wrote:
Edelweiss II panels have arrived, looking good! w00t
http://randomsource.net/serge_panels

post pics or it did not happen screaming goo yo SlayerBadger!

paid remaining, waiting for shipment It's peanut butter jelly time! nanners

thanks nordlead thumbs up keep going 4U
Zealot Vague
Ordered the rest It's peanut butter jelly time! thanks for all the effort!
nordlead
Bad news - it looks like the main purpose of this project is to prove Murphy's law. When taking this pic here to show the panels I noticed that there is a print hiccup (on the SSG) which no one had noticed before:



better to see here:



No idea how that could happen in production since the proofs they sent were fine. Guess someone inadvertently moved some graphics before they actually started printing. very frustrating

So I'm now in touch with the company, trying to get replacements as soon as possible - will keep you posted. What makes things worse is that we have already started shipping yesterday and today. I tried to stop at least today's packages (which were brought to the post office this morning) but failed. Looks like there's no undo here. So the plan is to get a new batch, however, due to holidays (including my own) this may mean a delay of 3-4 weeks (i.e. mid August) unless I get new panels within a week (which might not be too realistic).

Very sorry about this, but don't worry, we'll find a way to send you a replacement in case your order is already on its way.
xonetacular
Oh well, glad it's being sorted. I can wait.
Jonachi
Is it the doubled outline you are referens to? Will these fult ones be sold if you can live with the error?
jpauty
I don't know what to think. Is it like faulty stamps ? Will the panel gain more value in 20 years because of the fault ? It's pity to trash all those panels. Some people may don't care. You could try to sell them for half the price.
nordlead
jpauty wrote:
I don't know what to think. Is it like faulty stamps ? Will the panel gain more value in 20 years because of the fault ? It's pity to trash all those panels. Some people may don't care. You could try to sell them for half the price.


Haha, yes, maybe it's going to be the blue Mauritius of Serge panels! Have to admit that it takes some effort to take this with humor, but there's not much else one can do... They are already packed to go back, still can't believe that and how this may have happened ...
APETECHNOLOGY
please send mine!
i would like a faulty panel!
Dogma
nordlead wrote:
jpauty wrote:
I don't know what to think. Is it like faulty stamps ? Will the panel gain more value in 20 years because of the fault ? It's pity to trash all those panels. Some people may don't care. You could try to sell them for half the price.


Haha, yes, maybe it's going to be the blue Mauritius of Serge panels! Have to admit that it takes some effort to take this with humor, but there's not much else one can do... They are already packed to go back, still can't believe that and how this may have happened ...


Are you going to sell the "faulty" panels t a discount?
Synesthesia
Quote:
Are you going to sell the "faulty" panels t a discount?
--> +1!!!
Jonachi
Will buy faulty panel. Let us know Ralf.
m.o
Panel and cards received today SlayerBadger!

I think can live with the "fault", but however you want to do is fine by me.


Any suggestions for getting banana jacks in europe now that thonk has stopped selling them...
synchromesh
m.o wrote:
Any suggestions for getting banana jacks in europe now that thonk has stopped selling them...


You can get the Thonk-style ones from Farnell, at least.

(Also +1 for cheap panels with printing errors, but I suspect all the remaining ones have gone back)
jpauty
Synchromesh, the jack you linked won't work. You want something like: http://uk.farnell.com/johnson/108-0902-001/banana-socket-15a-4mm-panel -red/dp/1654713

Beware, hole on the panel are not circular, they are tailored for the jack I linked above. You need jacks with two flat sides and two circular sides. See the photo above.
nordlead
Hey guys,

the last week has been crazy, can't say that getting that printing fault sorted out was a smooth ride, however, I got a batch of panels which arrived by express this morning - now with the correct print:



Timing is a bit unfortunate as I'm about to (finally!) go on holidays, so I was hoping to get them 2 days ago (which didn't work out). However, I managed to ship the first (correct) ones out today.

Shipping will continue around August 8. So as you guessed, I shipped the faulty ones right back. Also, today's shipment is not the full batch, the rest should be here when I'll resume shipping.

If your order including a faulty panel has already arrived (or will in the next week or so), please send me an email (not pm) to arrange for a replacement.

Again sorry about this hiccup, I'm just glad that it could be resolved.

And yes, all R*S panels (and panel pcbs) are designed for Emerson / Johnson (now Cinch) banana jacks, available from Mouser (e.g.: black = 530-108-0903-1) -
as jpauty pointed out, that's the reason for the fancy milling so that the jacks are automatically aligned and cannot turn.
APETECHNOLOGY


i got my panel.
i am going for it.
thanks Ralf!
APETECHNOLOGY
i don't care for blue!
Rigo
PCBs and correct panel arrived today w00t
Zealot Vague
A registered letter from Germany is waiting at the post office hyper
APETECHNOLOGY
can anyone else building la bestia ii confirm,that the cv processor pcb is reversed/incorrect?

confirmed! remove rear tabs on middle pots so they do not contact large caps!
thanks, Lucid.
lucid
APETECHNOLOGY wrote:
can anyone else building la bestia ii confirm,that the cv processor pcb is reversed/incorrect?

I did not start with the build, but when looking on the PCB and picture of the panel you are right, it is mirror picture. Maybe pots and jack can be assembled from other side - opposite to instructions which are on the PCB, but I dont know how pots will behave (will be reversed?). Also be careful when mounting power connector from other side.

edited: well and two pots mounted from the other side will be damn close to smt caps. seem to be that supporting tabs on the pots is touching capacitor ground connection. so recommended only for advanced builders...
APETECHNOLOGY
after building this panel tonight, i wish i would have drilled out the trigger hole to 8mm or 21/64th.
there is a collared lip that does not allow for the switch to seat correctly.
counter sinking the inside of the panel would work as well.
super tight,and nicely designed!
thanks for the hard work Ralf!
evilspock
Received my panel/boat/PCBs, very high quality. Thanks for the awesome work Ralf!!! applause thumbs up Rockin' Banana!
GryphonP3
Going to pay my remainder and order pcbs soon smile just curious, is there anyplace with a rundown of the technical differences between your boards and the cgs boards? I see the info on DUSG improved tracking (very appealing) but I'm curious which other pcbs really differ from the cgs ones? For instance, ncom vs cgs voltage divider. Your SSG vs CGS ssg. Is it mainly that yours come pre-soldered with smt parts? I actually love doing the building work so would prefer to solder my own thru hole boards, but want to make sure I'm not missing many functional improvements by doing so.

Very excited to start work on this panel once i finish the two on my bench now smile
GryphonP3
Also (sorry if this has already been answered, read back about 15 pages and couldn't find anything on it) but are the pre-soldered boards populated to run on 12v or 15v power?
Permette
Hi

It's 12V (written at the end of modules build doc : http://randomsource.net/serge_panels)
Cheers !
nordlead
lucid wrote:
APETECHNOLOGY wrote:
can anyone else building la bestia ii confirm,that the cv processor pcb is reversed/incorrect?

I did not start with the build, but when looking on the PCB and picture of the panel you are right, it is mirror picture. Maybe pots and jack can be assembled from other side - opposite to instructions which are on the PCB, but I dont know how pots will behave (will be reversed?). Also be careful when mounting power connector from other side.

edited: well and two pots mounted from the other side will be damn close to smt caps. seem to be that supporting tabs on the pots is touching capacitor ground connection. so recommended only for advanced builders...


Damn, you guys are right! The Dual CV-PRO pcb is indeed mirrored, very sorry about this! very frustrating Can't believe I didn't notice this ... Here are some ideas how to deal with this:

- as suggested, flipping the board and mounting the potentiometers on the "wrong" side basically works - I did not bother about the pots touching the electrolytic caps and didn't run into any issues (looks like they might not actually touch), guess there should be no voltage on either the cap casing, nor the back of the pot, still might indeed be a good idea to use a bit of insulating tape. Make sure you observe the direction of the power header on the other side! The "side wall" of the MTA 156 header has to be away from the small MTA100 header.

- Just flipping the pcb means all pots will be reversed, too, i.e. everything works, but the pots go from positive to negative. This can be manually fixed by cutting 5 traces on each side and adding some wires / links. Here's a pic:



Again very sorry about this hiccup. I have already redone the layout to fix this. (Bare) PCBs should arrive next week, for anyone not afraid of SMT soldering and ideally able to remove the 2 OPA2134 ICs on the current boards, I'm happy to send you a fresh (naked) replacement board - these will be straight from pcb production, no SMT works done - not sure when I will be able to get that done...

If you can't live with the pots being reversed and also can't do the manual fix and can't handle the SMT soldering of a new board, let me know and we'll figure something out ...
DomMorley
Has everyone received their panels? Nothing here yet... seriously, i just don't get it
nordlead
I've already shipped most of the orders - logistics is already killing me, so I'm afraid I don't find the time to individually contact people who ordered to ask them to pay the REMAINDER (http://randomsource.net/serge_panels) - if you did pay the remainder and did not receive your panel / order within a week or two, please get in touch by email. If you didn't pay the remainder yet, please simply do so here.

Usually panels are shipped within a few days from receipt of the REMAINDER.

Also, if you asked for any order changes or similar a while back, please remind me again as it is really hard to keep track ...

Quick status update: A couple of Edelweiss II panels (and pcbs) are still available.

SSG pcbs are currently out, but should be back in a few days. It's peanut butter jelly time!

Corrected Dual CV Pro pcbs have arrived, if you're not comfortable fixing the mirrored one (see earlier post), please contact me to get a corrected (bare) pcb. I'm also looking into getting the SMT works done on these - since this would require quite a bit of extra cost for SMT and parts, I'll try to figure out if there is a way that makes sense...
DomMorley
Ah - not sure I noticed a remainder being needed! d'oh!

Pretty sure that means I haven't paid it then.

Just paid now anyway. Hopefully not for a second time! hihi
DomMorley
Finally got time for building! I've got a ton of B100k and no B50k pots. Is it cool to use B100k for all these PCBs? I know in previous R*S modules it's been cool to use B100k, but just wanted to check before I dive in.
DomMorley
Asked on FB too, and for anyone interested in the answer to this question, it's:

100k should work in most or all cases, however, i'd have to check specifically. In general, where the pots are just attenuators or a variable voltage source (i.e. connected to +12V and -12V or GND), 100k should work just as fine. Can't think of any instances where the value should really matter but don't rely on my poor memory ...

And he also said that the DUSGs should be fine with b100k.
jpauty
Anybody has a mouser project for the NCOM and the divider/boolean ? Should we start a build thread ?
Rigo
jpauty wrote:
Anybody has a mouser project for the NCOM and the divider/boolean ?

Maybe here: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153153&highlight=
jpauty
So, now that we have a yummy edelweiss II, what about its little brother ? we're not worthy
lucid
jpauty wrote:
So, now that we have a yummy edelweiss II, what about its little brother ? we're not worthy

My guess is that it depends when NTO will be ready. On FB there were just two teasers for eurorack format, but nothing about release date.
btw also waiting for NTO to be ready in 4U nanners
jpauty
Hi fellow edelweiss builders Guinness ftw!

Here is a compiled bom for edelweiss I made to simplify part ordering. Might be helpful to others.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H4Kjd7Dmf7WRcH-pslo3SY7MFCeaiu 9t-Q1dWtShxFs/edit?usp=sharing

If you find a mistake, tell me !

Rockin' Banana!
bence
here is my build (with a slightly different color scheme for the bananas)

top quality pcbs, panel and case, and an easy build - thank you Ralf! we're not worthy

only suggestion (as mentioned before by APETECHNOLOGY) is a bigger hole that goes with the listed c&k pushbutton.

SlayerBadger!
pre55ure
Very nice!

Do you happen to have part#'s for your power bricks in there?
bence
pre55ure wrote:
Very nice!

Do you happen to have part#'s for your power bricks in there?


do you mean the linear regulators? they are a common LM317 / LM337 pair, i think i got them from tayda (A-177 and A-222). i also used sil-pads and plastic shoulder washers to isolate their tabs from the metal case.

input is 12vac and the psu is similar to the mfos adjustable psu.
pre55ure
bence wrote:
pre55ure wrote:
Very nice!

Do you happen to have part#'s for your power bricks in there?


do you mean the linear regulators? they are a common LM317 / LM337 pair, i think i got them from tayda (A-177 and A-222). i also used sil-pads and plastic shoulder washers to isolate their tabs from the metal case.

input is 12vac and the psu is similar to the mfos adjustable psu.


Right!

Just looked again and realized that those are caps not power bricks...
At first glance I thought it was something like what the uzeus uses.
Anyway, fantastic looking build! Really need to put in my giant mouser order soon...
Reese P. Dubin
bence wrote:
here is my build (with a slightly different color scheme for the bananas)

top quality pcbs, panel and case, and an easy build - thank you Ralf! we're not worthy

only suggestion (as mentioned before by APETECHNOLOGY) is a bigger hole that goes with the listed c&k pushbutton.

SlayerBadger!


What size caps did you use on your PSU? Wondering what will be sufficient for the whole panel and want to use a single set of big ones for space concerns.

Really looking forward to knocking this one out.
bence
Reese P. Dubin wrote:


What size caps did you use on your PSU? Wondering what will be sufficient for the whole panel and want to use a single set of big ones for space concerns.

Really looking forward to knocking this one out.


i used 6800uF / 35V iirc
Reese P. Dubin
Thanks, feels like that should cover it.
GryphonP3
bence wrote:
here is my build (with a slightly different color scheme for the bananas)

top quality pcbs, panel and case, and an easy build - thank you Ralf! we're not worthy

only suggestion (as mentioned before by APETECHNOLOGY) is a bigger hole that goes with the listed c&k pushbutton.

SlayerBadger!


Nice! Inspiring to see it built. Need to save up for my panel remainder/PCBs!

So this build actually has PCB mount pots and jacks?? Wow. Just curioys - would I be able to fit regular CGS power distro rails in there and do it that way like any CGS serge build? Reason I ask is because I already have pcbs for a few of the modules in there atuffed and laying around, and I was planning to buy Ralf's boards for the important stuff, then use CGS boards for stuff like the divide/compare, boolean logic, divider, etc. and mount them all on regular CGS mounting rails. But now seeing how it all goes together without any wiring, I'm wondering if this would even be possible considering the space and form factor? Can anyone with the boards in hand suggest whether it would be possible? I usually do my panelswith pcbs mounted on the power rails, hinged to the panel like so:
medbot
GryphonP3 wrote:
bence wrote:
here is my build (with a slightly different color scheme for the bananas)

top quality pcbs, panel and case, and an easy build - thank you Ralf! we're not worthy

only suggestion (as mentioned before by APETECHNOLOGY) is a bigger hole that goes with the listed c&k pushbutton.

SlayerBadger!


Nice! Inspiring to see it built. Need to save up for my panel remainder/PCBs!

So this build actually has PCB mount pots and jacks?? Wow. Just curioys - would I be able to fit regular CGS power distro rails in there and do it that way like any CGS serge build? Reason I ask is because I already have pcbs for a few of the modules in there atuffed and laying around, and I was planning to buy Ralf's boards for the important stuff, then use CGS boards for stuff like the divide/compare, boolean logic, divider, etc. and mount them all on regular CGS mounting rails. But now seeing how it all goes together without any wiring, I'm wondering if this would even be possible considering the space and form factor? Can anyone with the boards in hand suggest whether it would be possible? I usually do my panelswith pcbs mounted on the power rails, hinged to the panel like so:


Not sure if it's much help for you, but I just did a few custom panels and used a Random Source board with the CGS rails. I did have to basically throw the panel component PCB away and hand wire everything though, so it would probably be all or nothing if you were going to use the rails. You can always break the rails apart into shorter bits also if that helps.
pre55ure
GryphonP3 wrote:
bence wrote:
here is my build (with a slightly different color scheme for the bananas)

top quality pcbs, panel and case, and an easy build - thank you Ralf! we're not worthy

only suggestion (as mentioned before by APETECHNOLOGY) is a bigger hole that goes with the listed c&k pushbutton.

SlayerBadger!


Nice! Inspiring to see it built. Need to save up for my panel remainder/PCBs!

So this build actually has PCB mount pots and jacks?? Wow. Just curioys - would I be able to fit regular CGS power distro rails in there and do it that way like any CGS serge build? Reason I ask is because I already have pcbs for a few of the modules in there atuffed and laying around, and I was planning to buy Ralf's boards for the important stuff, then use CGS boards for stuff like the divide/compare, boolean logic, divider, etc. and mount them all on regular CGS mounting rails. But now seeing how it all goes together without any wiring, I'm wondering if this would even be possible considering the space and form factor? Can anyone with the boards in hand suggest whether it would be possible? I usually do my panelswith pcbs mounted on the power rails, hinged to the panel like so:
]


Well, sort of. I mean you could just not use the panel component pcb's.. but then you'd have to figure out what components are on the panel pcb's (some have resistors etc...) You'd also have to figure out which pcb pads go to what panel components. It seems like it would be a lot of extra work for no real point. Also the main pcb's aren't in the same 2 x 6 format so I don't think you could mount them to the CGS rails without some extra effort.

TBH I think that doing it this way would kind of defeat the point of the R*S panels/boards. I'm pretty sure that all the equivalent PCB's are available from CGS and would be cheaper if thats your preference.
(I hadn't planned on it - but if you are interested I do have a V1 panel that uses CGS boards in my backlog. Maybe we could talk trade or something if you really want to do it the old school way.)
jpauty
Hey Guys,

I saw on facebook that Ralf has a 4U NTO on the bench for testing It's peanut butter jelly time! Let's raise our hands to motivate him and launching the la bestia run nanners nanners Rockin' Banana!
GryphonP3
jpauty wrote:
Hey Guys,

I saw on facebook that Ralf has a 4U NTO on the bench for testing It's peanut butter jelly time! Let's raise our hands to motivate him and launching the la bestia run nanners nanners Rockin' Banana!


HELL yeah!! Been waiting for this ever since I sold my NTOs M-Class Dead Banana
malnatim
jpauty wrote:
Hey Guys,

I saw on facebook that Ralf has a 4U NTO on the bench for testing It's peanut butter jelly time! Let's raise our hands to motivate him and launching the la bestia run nanners nanners Rockin' Banana!


maybe x-fader also. great news!
Rigo
nordlead wrote:

How's this one doing by the way ? Not that I already finished my Edelweiss II, or the TKB hihi
Reese P. Dubin
Regarding the Random Source module in the Edelweis, what is the specified noise transistor type? Mine did not come with the SMT installed, and the BOM does not have it listed that I see.

BOM also is short one 12 pin SIL connector set.

About to increase the hole size for the push button, as something is wonky with every fix I have investigated. Raising the pots equal to the switch with washers doesnt leave enough thread for the nuts to grab outside.

Goddamn this thing is so nice, and a total pleasure to build.
Rigo
Rigo wrote:
nordlead wrote:

How's this one doing by the way ? Not that I already finished my Edelweiss II, or the TKB hihi

Not much change on my side, but how is it on the La Bestia side ?
Rigo
NTO PCBs for sale now ... one step closer to La Bestia II It's peanut butter jelly time!
krok
The La Bestia II front panel is up for pre-order now. It's a deposit only and no modules yet.
http://randomsource.net/serge_panels#bestia
xonetacular
anyone got a mouser cart for the pulse divider/boolean?

finally about to build this thing
xonetacular
what about xfader instead of audio mixer on la bestia?
GryphonP3
Going to order all the edelweiss PCBs once the la bestia ones become available. I have not used the R*S PCBs before, I am wondering if they fit dimension wise inside a hammond box rather than the R*S one. I have 10 hammond enclosures for various serge projects and can build my own PSU, so I would like to do that if the PCB size permits it.
tojpeters
The 4x4 modules fit in a Hammond boat
peloazul
The R*S boat is 3" deep/tall, fwiw. The modules fit pretty generously in there, since they don't use e.g. CGS power rails.
krok
The La Bestia II panel & pcbs are up for sale on the Random*Source site now. Just a fyi for anyone else who's been waiting.
http://randomsource.net/serge_panels

There's two versions of the Serge Variable Q VCF (VCFQ) listed, a Special Edition smt version and a classic through hole version. If you're wondering about the difference, the special edition build docs say this:
Quote:
The SE version has been adjusted so that there is no resonance at all when VC Q is turned down - the classic Serge design has a little bit of resonance even when turned all the way down. When you turn up the Q knob by about 8%, you get exactly the response you get from the classic version at minimum. This means the SE version extends the sonic range to cover a very soft and smooth (resonance-free) area.
GryphonP3
Thanks!! Just came in to check, so great news! Very welcome feature on the SMT version. That always bugged me about my CGS and serge VCFQs!

krok wrote:
The La Bestia II panel & pcbs are up for sale on the Random*Source site now. Just a fyi for anyone else who's been waiting.
http://randomsource.net/serge_panels

There's two versions of the Serge Variable Q VCF (VCFQ) listed, a Special Edition smt version and a classic through hole version. If you're wondering about the difference, the special edition build docs say this:
Quote:
The SE version has been adjusted so that there is no resonance at all when VC Q is turned down - the classic Serge design has a little bit of resonance even when turned all the way down. When you turn up the Q knob by about 8%, you get exactly the response you get from the classic version at minimum. This means the SE version extends the sonic range to cover a very soft and smooth (resonance-free) area.
lasesentaysiete
does anyone know if the pcbs available on the "Serge Panels" page come with a daughter board for pots, jacks, switches, leds, etc? IE, do you get 1 or 2 boards?
peloazul
lasesentaysiete That was the case with Edelweiss II.
peloazul
Reese P. Dubin wrote:
Regarding the Random Source module in the Edelweis, what is the specified noise transistor type? Mine did not come with the SMT installed, and the BOM does not have it listed that I see.

Reese Sorry slow - I had this same question myself. I went to the page for the equivalent CGS version of the module and used that - PN4250A. I used 3 pins worth of a pin strip to make a socket. The first one turned out ok in the circuit, though.

I think Ralf makes a note of this in the La Bestia II build doc:
Ralf wrote:
For the Noise Source you have to select a noise transistor. It is recommended to use a socket for the (through-hole) transistor or simply stick the transistor in (without soldering) so you can test a couple - while the aim of the transistor manufacturers is to have as little noise as possible, we are interested in exactly the opposite for the noise source, so check out level and sound(!) of various types and pieces. Since the temperature of the transistor is also relevant for the noise generation, it is recommended to wait for a couple of minutes so that the transistor can warm up before you evaluate the noise quality.
lasesentaysiete
peloazul wrote:
lasesentaysiete That was the case with Edelweiss II.

thumbs up
nordlead
Shipping of La Bestia II (panels and pcbs) has started.

w00t

My own build (work in progress) ...


If you have pre-ordered a panel, please order the remainder (and any pcbs you may need) here.

Also, we are currently testing FEDEX for international shipping (depending on destination), it appears that in many cases Fedex is not much more expensive than the normal postal service (which can be quite slow). The calculation of shipping cost is rather buggy and does not even try to reflect the FEDEX rates (which are infinitely complicated), so I may have to ask for a shipping supplement. Also, FEDEX requires a telephone number, so please provide one either by adding a message with paypal or replying to the order confirmation. Thanks!

By the way, would like to get your feedback on how attractive shipping via Fedex is... Guinness ftw!
Larrea
nordlead wrote:
Shipping of La Bestia II (panels and pcbs) has started.

The calculation of shipping cost is rather buggy and does not even try to reflect the FEDEX rates (which are infinitely complicated), so I may have to ask for a shipping supplement.


Thanks for the clarification.

I sent you a message through your site's contact form about this; no reply. Apparently it's not working? Just a heads-up.

So we should order with impunity. Good news! nanners

How long do you anticipate having full stock of the panels and PCBs?

I would be ordering panel, PCBs, and a boat. Stupid question: is your external PSU mandatory to power the boat or are there other common PSUs people generally have at hand that will work?

Oh, and if FedEx isn't exorbitantly more expensive than the post, and is significantly faster, then I for one am in favor.
nordlead
Larrea wrote:

Thanks for the clarification.

I sent you a message through your site's contact form about this; no reply. Apparently it's not working? Just a heads-up.

So we should order with impunity. Good news! nanners

How long do you anticipate having full stock of the panels and PCBs?

I would be ordering panel, PCBs, and a boat. Stupid question: is your external PSU mandatory to power the boat or are there other common PSUs people generally have at hand that will work?

Oh, and if FedEx isn't exorbitantly more expensive than the post, and is significantly faster, then I for one am in favor.


OK, more clarification ;-)

Contact form should be working, however, I'm constantly drowning in a stream of emails and messages and the last weeks have been very busy trying to get everything in and out of production (and preparing for Superbooth or now BMF), so responses can be slow or slip through, especially if the questions cannot be answered on a yes / no basis ;-) Sorry about this, but spending more time answering emails would mean spending less time on getting the next module ready ... (or even less sleep!)

Re shipping, considering that R*S is not Mouser, I think the Fedex rates are pretty good, however I received about 15 pages full of tables and numbers and the cost also depends on weight and size, so there is no way I'll ever try to implement those numbers in the shop system. If you overpaid shipping because the actual rate is cheaper I will of course refund you. so far it looks like for a number of countries (US, France, Switzerland) Fedex is quite attractive, for some others (Australia) less so ... some (very) rough figures: so far a La Bestia II package (panel and some or all pcbs) with Fedex have been somewhere around EUR 35 in Europe and EUR 55 to the US ...

How long will I have full stock of panels and pcbs? This is not predictable at all as some of the pcbs are also used for the 4x4 modules. Also there is a number of pre-orders but I cannot say when everyone will plaice the main order and if they order all pcbs at once.
lasesentaysiete
can anyone post a pic of the VCFQ panel pcb? I'd like to know the orientation of the pots in order to determine if d-shafts are ok to use. Ideally (for me), they would all have their legs on the opposite side of the pot shaft vis-à-vis the jacks, etc.

does this make sense? I know R*S boards often have pots oriented both ways.
nordlead
lasesentaysiete wrote:
can anyone post a pic of the VCFQ panel pcb? I'd like to know the orientation of the pots in order to determine if d-shafts are ok to use. Ideally (for me), they would all have their legs on the opposite side of the pot shaft vis-à-vis the jacks, etc.

does this make sense? I know R*S boards often have pots oriented both ways.


All 4 pots of the VCFQ TH-version are oriented upright (legs towards the top) / pointing in the same direction. Hope this helps!
lasesentaysiete
nordlead wrote:


All 4 pots of the VCFQ TH-version are oriented upright (legs towards the top) / pointing in the same direction. Hope this helps!

of course it does! thumbs up
srfnsmy
Does anyone know the approximate Amperage draw for a La Bestia II? Need to know if 750mA PSA will be enough or if i should go for 1.5mA's..
Akitamaru
I am having trouble calibrating timegen oscillator on la bestia. I dont know what could go wrong in the build. I am using the correct trimmer value and there are not many other parts that were up to me to place. The module works fine but 1V/Oct doesn't reach anywhere near tuning on either far end of the trimmer range.
sdhains
does anyone happen to know if the edelweiss II has the same power consumption as the edelweiss (190mA on 12v+) according to nordlead on another thread?

Also wanting to confirm the la bestia pulls 550 to 600mA (making it incompatible with the ps2a which has 350mA capability 'om each rail' according to rex)...
Cablebasher
Guys

Very interested in the La Bestia panel but there is not a lot of videos or audio online.

Anyone got any jams they want to share?
ear ear
Cablebasher wrote:
Guys

Very interested in the La Bestia panel but there is not a lot of videos or audio online.

Anyone got any jams they want to share?


Would it help if you knew that the 'La Bestia' panel by Random Source is 'inspired by' the 'Animal' panel from STS? Do a search for 'Serge Animal'.
xonetacular
so I'm revisiting this to finish troubleshooting after having it set aside for a long time. edelweiss is built, if I take a looping output from either DUSG on edelweiss and put it into the boolean/pulse divider it will immediately freeze up the DUSG and the cycle light will just stay on. If I do the same thing with an out from a different 4x4 DUSG in another boat it doesn't do that and works normally. Both boats are connected to the same RS linear PSU. What's going on?
the bad producer
Is this the one built with just the *RS* PCBs?
xonetacular
yes version 2
xonetacular
seriously, i just don't get it
srfnsmy
I'm having problems with my CV Processor. I cut all the traces specified in the diagram. I also made sure once the traces we cut that they weren’t hitting the ground in any way.

Problem is still not resolved. The output attenuator is working correctly - adding and subtracting 5v on the output. But the 3 other input attenuators are not doing much of anything.

I’m comparing it with another Dual CV processor and that one is functioning properly.

Anything else other than the diagram below that I need to do to correct this problem?
the bad producer
I'm guessing those green lines drawn on the left side PCB image are wrong, one should go to CW, one should go to CCW surely? Check out 'SN1' and 'SN2' on the CGS81 schematic... (This is for the input attenuators).

I think the second one down in each pair of green lines should connect to the other leg of the pots (CCW)
srfnsmy
the bad producer wrote:
I'm guessing those green lines drawn on the left side PCB image are wrong, one should go to CW, one should go to CCW surely? Check out 'SN1' and 'SN2' on the CGS81 schematic... (This is for the input attenuators).

I think the second one down in each pair of green lines should connect to the other leg of the pots (CCW)


Or dear would you look at that! Cracking it open now to check..
srfnsmy
yes the diagram was off and its fixed now - thanks Charlie!!!

after comparing with the CGS81 schematic i found that there was a third connection that wasn't even drawn

thumbs up

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