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barry schrader's lost atlantis patch
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Modular Synth General Discussion Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next [all]
Author barry schrader's lost atlantis patch
Babaluma
in the liner notes (which are excellent by the way) for the cd reissue of barry schrader's "lost atlantis" album, there is detailed the main patch used for all the compositions thereon.

it was made on a large buchla 200 with a few custom yamaha modules.

barry talks about the patch and there is an excellent diagram detailing it. i'll try to describe it. basically 5 tuned vcos can be voltage controlled in two main ways.

firstly, and the one i have no problem in understanding, is termed "parallel motion", where one cv is multed to all the vco's, and they track together (imagine sending one analog sequencer out to multiple vco ins). if one goes up 3 semitones, they all go up three semitones. apparently this was achieved with a buchla model 257 cv processor.

now things start to spin me out with the next cv source, which is termed "contrary motion", and was apparently achieved with another buchla model 257 cv processor. this time, again, one cv is sent to all 5 vcos, but instead of tracking in a linear fashion, the higher two tuned vcos go even higher in pitch, the middle vco stays the same, and the lower two tuned vcos go lower in pitch. try to imagine 5 pitches all moving away from each other as fast as they can. it's very difficult to describe, but the picture in the liner notes makes it very easy to see.

barry talks about having control of both of these simultaneously.

what i want to know, is how the hell do you achieve the second thing going on, and would it be possible to do it on my own modular?

i'm always interested when i see or hear of a patch which is totally different to anything i have ever tried to implement before on my own system. and there are some right crazy sounds on that album!

i guess is should just look up the description of the 257 eh?
Babaluma
hm, just found this description of the 257:



sounds amazing!

schematics available:

http://www.musicsynthesizer.com/Buchla/b257.jpg
Babaluma
can the makenoise maths do this?
wetterberg
you just need to invert the cv. that way positive cv applied in one place will be negative cv somewhere else.

the Maths would be overkill for such an application, I think.
Luka
i was going to make a 257 pcb desing for etching but never got around to it, i remember some euro kids saying there was a plan b module that did something similar but i have no idea if that is true or not

i guess the first 5 oscs were controlled via the offset and some sort of buffered mult devise (buchla cv router perhaps), then used log and mult functions from the 257 to move the oscs around

257 sounds fun
i might still have a go at breadboarding it
Babaluma
thanks for the ideas, wetterberg, you are correct but it's a degree of scale. wish i could post the pic to how you! you'd need a lot more modules to do it this way. the 257 seems to be able to do it all!

257 seems insane!
a100user
Just had a listen to the snippet here http://modisti.com/releases/?p=2949 wonderful piece.

Something else to spend money on cry
wetterberg
a degree of scale? Aren't we talking about 5 oscillators, some have to go down in response to positive cv - ah, you mean by different amounts? - and some have to go up?

I still say inverted cv and then attenuation on the ends.

shit, I just realized: I don't have an inverter here at all!
Babaluma
yeah, i'll take a pic and upload it.

i have loads of inverters in my bananalogue 3ps, couldn't live without them, especially on compressor and chaotic patches!

the lost atlantis cd has grown on me, didn't like it at first, but do now. loads of dynamic range. if you turn it up really loud there are a couple of shit scary bits!
makenoise
Excellent topic!
Lost Atlantis is a favorite of mine.

If I am understanding the patch correctly, you could achieve "contrary motion" with MATHS or a handful of Bi-Polar Attenuators, by multing the "contrary cv" to all four signal inputs of MATHS (or 4 bi-polar attenuators) and adjusting a couple of the channels to be varying amounts of inverted attenuation and the other channels to be simply scaled (attenuated). The channels that do not change simply do not get the contrary CV. With MATHS, the outer most channels could also slew that "contrary CV" so that VCOs controlled by channels 1 & 4 would not only change contrary to the others, but also more slowly.

This is exactly the kind of patch I was imagining when I was designing the MATHS. I really enjoy patches where changing one CV will create a great deal of change.

Tony
sduck
One of the cgs boards does cv inversion quite nicely - I forget which one - it's in my analog computer module, which has 4 pcb's behind it.
frijitz
In my system I have a number of simple mixers with both direct and inverted outputs. So the main CV could go into two of these and the outputs could be +/- small spread and +/- large spread. Just as one example of how to do this. You can't ever have enough mixers -- I always seem to use mine all up quickly.

grin

Ian
mono-poly
there was/is a psim function to do 257 stuff
cbm
The equation on the 257 panel, while completely accurate, tends to obscure more than illuminate, IMO. Don't get me wrong it's a very capable CV processor, but it's more mysterious than it could be.
brandon daniel
Also, assuming by "lower" you mean "track to a lower pitch than the middle osc" rather than "going down in pitch as CV increases", this sounds similar to the "spread" function on the MOTM cloud generator.
daverj
The formula looks complicated, but it is actually quite simple.

It's a mixer with:

an output DC bias pot
one input having a polarizer knob
two other inputs fed into a crossfader
the crossfader has a knob and a CV

So basically it's a VC crossfader that mixes with a polarizer and a bias pot.
Babaluma
thanks for all the input!

here is the patch and accompanying notes:



tony and daverj, that sounds like exactly how i might implement it on my own system.
dude
5x5 attenuverting matrix mixer. would that do the trick? i hope so as i just ordered one.
neandrewthal
I was waiting for someone to post this, but nope.

You want it, Santa`s on it thumbs up

neandrewthal
I thought the bridechamber panel was clever:



That`s why I blatantly ripped it off. I forgot to match the resistors on mine, so a couple of the outputs sound a bit sour.
Peake
Babaluma wrote:
thanks for the ideas, wetterberg, you are correct but it's a degree of scale. wish i could post the pic to how you! you'd need a lot more modules to do it this way. the 257 seems to be able to do it all!

257 seems insane!


Buchla is the shiznit. Word to your patchcord. (see, I have serious street cred. Um...whee.)

Barry is definitely one of us. Explaining a synth patch as liner notes. Mr. Green And the CGS module is wonderful. If you had a VC bandpass filter for each of those outputs... eek!
bartlebooth
I think it's freakin' amazing that the guy used the same patch for all of his musical output for TWELVE YEARS! Think about that for a minute..

I think my personal record is 3 days d'oh!
Babaluma
yeah that's insane!
okiikahuna
Interestingly the skin algorhythm on the Basimilus Iteritas Alter is set up a lot like the Lost Atlantis patch, 6 oscillators with controls for pitch (parallel motion) and spread(contrary motion, In fact I think Barry Schrader actually refers to this as spread in the liner notes) In fact when I first read the description of it in the BIA manual, I remembered those liner notes and was instantly sold. I had high hopes it would be like my own little Schrader in a box. However, while it sounds great, I haven't managed to get anything out of it that really sounds much like anything on Lost Atlantis. I guess it would be expecting way too much to think that an inexpensive little digital box could really make noises that sound like the 200.
ikjoyce
That is amazing - and to use that as the basis of everything else he did is just incredible.

I had a go - using an A-138-m (bi-polar matrix mixer) to tune and add/subtract the sequence CV being sent to each oscillator. I used five VCOs, five filters (4 in band pass, and the main note in low pass) plus losts of interacting envelopes to give it movement. The sequence running all this is an 8 note sequence, playing very slowly in pendulum mode. Second time round it has glide added.

It takes some setting up to get tuned - and I think you need to spend time with it to find the sweet-spots (maybe not 12 years though!)

[s]http://soundcloud.com/ikjoyce/lost-atlantis[/s]
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