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I have a hard time understanding make noise modules
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Eurorack Modules  
Author I have a hard time understanding make noise modules
Johnisfaster
I only own the wogglebug which I understand is sorta a sample hold / slew limiter type concoction. but I have a hard time understanding what maths and qmmg are in a utilitarian sense. I know this seems silly but often when I read module descriptions I just get confused, and module demos often are just chaoss with little to no explaination.

am I the only one with this problem?
DrOctave
the qqmg is a great utility it is 4 filters or 4 vcas or any combo of 1 of each filter and a vca all the same time oh and it is a mixer also. the maths is a slew limiter vcadsr and a couple other little things. the woggle bug is a love hate module and has a devil inside it. i cant explain in words what they all do only in variaion of noise. i know this is little help. just buy a qmmg and u will see why you allways needed one same with the maths. they are the 2 modules you never knew you needed till you get them.
jonkull
I think the QMMG is really easy to understand. 4 LP/HP filters, 4 VCAs, 1 mixer or any combination of those.

The Wogglebug makes random smooth and stepped voltages. Has a ring mod, VCO, random gate and a clock. Easy enough.

I don't get Maths overall (channels 2 and 3, sum, or, addition and subtraction make no sense to me). I just use it as two A/D or ASR envelopes mainly.
blungo2
Well said Dr. Octave.
I also think of both of them as absolute essentials.
The Maths completely changed the way i think of and use envelopes. Stuff that i didn't even realize was possible is now easy and fun.

The Maths also does my laundry and makes toast in the morning. Ok, maybe not, but sometimes i think it could.

QMMG is a little less glamorous but the workhorse of my modular, everything goes through it.
ezekiel
Actually, i am the opposite as the original post: I sold my Wogglebug because I could not get it to make my kind of noise. I did not understand the point of what it was doing. Maybe that is because I make noise not music.

Continuing the opposite impression, I find the QMMG to be the most wonderful "noise tuning" module--i feed in noises and use it like an equalizer to tune in variations of noise. Some settings give a breaking up kind of noise. I like that it turns a single noise into a smooth range of noises especially if you use an HP mode cascaded into an LP mode. I don't think I am using it the way others do. That's good! Note that an electrical engineer friend came over and knew exactly what the QMMG was from the panel graphics.

I can't decide if the Maths will be understandable/useful. Clearly, everyone sees these modules a little different.
suboptimal
The Maths takes about 15 minutes of playtime to understand. It's got a lot going on, but it's not hard to feel out. There are harder things about it - what exactly it's doing at any given moment can be mathematically complicated - but that's why it's an awesome modulator.

QMMG and Maths are, to me, easy choices for small systems due to their delightful density of function.
blungo2
^
I agree the maths and qmmg are very intuitive.
the woggle a little less so, but still easy.
Audio Resistance
i have a Wogglebug, but for some reason I never picked up a QMMG and have yet to get a Math's. I guess my reasoning was I have the Plan B equivalents on the LPG, plus I have a Borg and want another.

I am on the fence on the Math's, it seem's I have alot of it in the M-14 and M-10 combo. Part of me want's to ride the Makenoise tidlewave that has come crashing down around here but I am leery of getting a bunch of redundant modules.

Maybe if I sold the Plan B things than I guess I would pick those up. I just now what to expect out of the Plan B and I like how the LPG is real woody sounding.

So, is everyone who sold there Plan B modules and replaced them with Makenoise happy?

This is a pointless post, it is me really just typing my thought's out loud. Plus, Malekko/Wiard has a few new envelopes coming out and I will definitely get those and than the redundancy would really bother me.
dkcg
Audio Resistance wrote:
i have a Wogglebug, but for some reason I never picked up a QMMG and have yet to get a Math's. I guess my reasoning was I have the Plan B equivalents on the LPG, plus I have a Borg and want another.

I am on the fence on the Math's, it seem's I have alot of it in the M-14 and M-10 combo. Part of me want's to ride the Makenoise tidlewave that has come crashing down around here but I am leery of getting a bunch of redundant modules.

Maybe if I sold the Plan B things than I guess I would pick those up. I just now what to expect out of the Plan B and I like how the LPG is real woody sounding.

So, is everyone who sold there Plan B modules and replaced them with Makenoise happy?

This is a pointless post, it is me really just typing my thought's out loud. Plus, Malekko/Wiard has a few new envelopes coming out and I will definitely get those and than the redundancy would really bother me.


I still have all my PlanB modules, including M10s and M14s. I've just switched using the M14s from processing envelopes to working with LFOs and sequencers. I tend to use my M13s more often than the QMMG, but it's nice having a bunch when I have patches that are polyphonic and/or have sounds going through multiple LPGs (like one channel with 16th notes, and than into another with a slow 1/4 note run by dividing the 16th notes). Patches like that start to use up LPGs quick. And I have noticed a fairly distinct difference between adding multiple envelopes at different rates and sending audio through one LPG versus multiple LPGs with multiple envelopes at different rates. I prefer the latter, more organic to my ears.

Babble summary, if you're doing one voice at a time, the 1M10s with a M14 vs. a Maths, and QMMG vs 2 M13s, overlap somewhat so you may not need the Math and/or QMMG, but if you're doing polyphony, the more the merrier and I like a wide sonic palette. But an austere system with multiple modules does look nice and may be more repeatable?
Audio Resistance
Haha, you and I have had this same conversation before. I am still on the fence about it. I am probably going to just bite the bullet and at least start with the QMMG, and just keep my Plan B's.

These are such wonderful post-modular ownership questions. Before the modular I could not have given a rat's ass how fast an envelope was, did not even know what an LPG did, or even wondered about bi-polar mixing of cv. All of these things to me are what make modular synthesis so much fun and really gives the brain a good workout.

Speaking of cerebral calisthenics, Rex at Serge called yesterday and my system is in the mail. nanners
Johnisfaster
I guess my problem is that since I'm new to modulars and how I look at synthesizers I still think of synthesis as vco/vcf/vca/lfo and then there are audio processors n' what not, but make noise stuff still sorta lives outside my usual conception of what each thing does, I guess they are many things really which I haven't gotten used to so I'm having trouble figuring out how I want to plan my modular around them

is it weird that I almost feel a slight resistance even? that is kinda weird..
DGTom
http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/257-cvprocessor.html

http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/265-uncertainty.html

http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/266-uncertainty.html

http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/281-funcgenerator.html

http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/292-lopassgate.html

If you havn't already. It is a differant thought process to East Coast / subtractive synthesis.

For the wogglebug, this;

http://www.wiard.com/modular/Woggle/265block.jpg

might make things easier to understand as it shows how the trad. blocks interact with one another behind the scenes.
Johnisfaster
I guess thats probably it, up till now I've been East coast style (is that right?) and have been somewhat confused by west cost style modules like this. I think at some point I should just get them and see how they blow my mind or not

it almost seems like an issue of me thinking of modules as a single purpose single function device and not something that can change purpose depending on what you want it to do.. hm...
jonkull
Johnisfaster wrote:
I guess my problem is that since I'm new to modulars and how I look at synthesizers I still think of synthesis as vco/vcf/vca/lfo ...


I was the same way when I first put my modular together. I started to wonder if it was the right choice for me since I was doing the same kinds of things with the modular that I was doing with my Moog and Andromeda. It wasn't until I broke out of the VCO-VCF-VCA mold that I really started enjoying patching. That's one of the great things about modulars. You determine your own signal path. You aren't restricted to someone else's idea of what that should be. Experiment.
blungo2
Johnisfaster wrote:
I guess my problem is that since I'm new to modulars and how I look at synthesizers I still think of synthesis as vco/vcf/vca/lfo and then there are audio processors n' what not, but make noise stuff still sorta lives outside my usual conception of what each thing does, I guess they are many things really which I haven't gotten used to so I'm having trouble figuring out how I want to plan my modular around them

is it weird that I almost feel a slight resistance even? that is kinda weird..


Makenoise is more on the additive synthesis side of things rather than the moog style subtractive synthesis that you're working from. Different strokes you know if you feel more comfortable with the moog paradigm, go for it. Nothing wrong with that. Although the makenoise stuff can do that as well.
Johnisfaster
blungo2 wrote:

Makenoise is more on the additive synthesis side of things rather than the moog style subtractive synthesis that you're working from.


don't get me wrong I don't go for a standy moogy sound very often, I like to fiddle with strange combinations of envelopes and modulation to get rythmic patterns and I fiddle with fm and all that jazz. Maybe I'm just being daunted by modules I don't initially understand.

it's just that when I'm using the modular planner and I go to put a qmmg or maths into the planner I don't actually initially know what I would want to patch to it? does that make sense?
DGTom
Johnisfaster wrote:
it almost seems like an issue of me thinking of modules as a single purpose single function device and not something that can change purpose depending on what you want it to do.. hm...


This is a big part of it I think. Patch programable means instead of having module X to do X & module Y to do Y you have A module that is capable of XYZ. Might take longer to get the hang of but the flavour lasts longer grin

On the face of it the QMMG does seem the simplest. 4 filters. But it can also process CVs. CV->LPF = slew, but these are vactrols, so slewy slew, but they are also resonant; slewy slew with ripple... but, they are also BPF or HPFs MY ASS IS BLEEDING
blungo2
Yes, things can definitely be confusing because some modules can play many roles.

I tend to think of things in a very simplistic basic way and then experiment from that. i.e i think of the qmmg as basically a mixer that is also a lpg/filter.

I think of the maths as an envelope that can also be an lfo. (not to mention the other things it does). That gives me a starting point that i can then expound on.

I find that my main limitation is what i "think" the modules are really for or can do. When i either stop thinking or manage to think beyond my self imposed box of understanding, cool stuff happens.
blungo2
jonkull wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:
I guess my problem is that since I'm new to modulars and how I look at synthesizers I still think of synthesis as vco/vcf/vca/lfo ...


I was the same way when I first put my modular together. I started to wonder if it was the right choice for me since I was doing the same kinds of things with the modular that I was doing with my Moog and Andromeda. It wasn't until I broke out of the VCO-VCF-VCA mold that I really started enjoying patching. That's one of the great things about modulars. You determine your own signal path. You aren't restricted to someone else's idea of what that should be. Experiment.


I guess that's the main point of the makenoise modules for me.
They make patching more fun.
Audio Resistance
Johnisfaster wrote:
I guess thats probably it, up till now I've been East coast style (is that right?) and have been somewhat confused by west cost style modules like this. I think at some point I should just get them and see how they blow my mind or not

it almost seems like an issue of me thinking of modules as a single purpose single function device and not something that can change purpose depending on what you want it to do.. hm...


Do you have any kind of mixer that is capable of doing bi-polar cv.
That for me really opened up the way to West Coast synthesis for me.

I am still new to this way of patching and thinking as well. Sending different envelopes and triggers into a Harvestman Evin mixer and offset them all into the key in on a Borg in LPG mode.

This is the patch
http://soundcloud.com/audio-resistance/bubble-gut
Johnisfaster
Audio Resistance wrote:

Do you have any kind of mixer that is capable of doing bi-polar cv.


not currently, I think a polar mixer is 3rd on my list of modules wanted. right now my want list is 156 quantizer and ulfo and then a polarizing mixer.
Mr White
+1 for going out and buy them! smile ...and just experiment, you'll not be disappointed, it's impossible to find them unuseful, granted.

... oops ok, I'm so hyped by mekenoise modules that I own all of them and dreaming of a VCO one to have a complete makenoise system... MY ASS IS BLEEDING but, I'm not the only one that can assure it's for many good reasons!

speaking of MATHS maybe here Tony have done its masterpiece applause
but it's really hard to pick one for better than another...
justin3am
as a shameless self promoter, I believe that this video is relevant to the discussion. hihi



The primary components of this synth voice are QMMG, Maths, WoggleBug and Hertz Donut.
Peake
I cannot express my pleasure at the continuing and increasing acceptance and enthusiasm I see for Buchla and Buchla-derived modules. Cheers to all.
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