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Using my modular as a clock to control ableton
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Using my modular as a clock to control ableton
Junior
I would like to use my clock source on my modular (pamela's workout) to control everything else in my set up. I normally run a few rack synths off of midi tracks in ableton as well as my eurorack. I have the Doepfer A-190 so I can do it the other way around but haven't quite got my head around a technique to make my modular run everything else.
I know that the Pamelas workout isn't specifically designed to do this task but there must be a relatively simple bodge to get around this problem.

Is there a different clock source module that can do this?
This isn't just for ableton as it would be great to be able to control other midi devices i.e. drum machines etc...
Any help appreciated
Hainbach
You will have a bad time trying to sync a DAW to an external midi device, especially if you want to record audio. To much shit happening in a computer to allow for stable clocking. I could never get it to work properly at least.
Why not use Ableton as the master clock?
Junior
Hainbach wrote:
You will have a bad time trying to sync a DAW to an external midi device, especially if you want to record audio. To much shit happening in a computer to allow for stable clocking. I could never get it to work properly at least.
Why not use Ableton as the master clock?


I do right now with a Doepfer A-190 thought it would be cool to be able to have it the other way around as well though.
Junior
Also, I still use my Roland 626 as an external clock for ableton sometimes and although it's not perfect, they sync pretty well. This was part of the reason I started thinking about this whole thing.
flo
The 626 has a trigger out - use that to control Pamela as well as the midi out.

Or, you could hack a sync24 output out of Pamela and, with an appropriate cable (Expert Sleepers) and a converter (e.g. Korg KMS30), use that to drive Ableton and everything else.

But I have to agree with Hainbach, IME slaving a DAW does not work well. Better to have it as the master.
Junior
flo wrote:
The 626 has a trigger out - use that to control Pamela as well as the midi out.

Or, you could hack a sync24 output out of Pamela and, with an appropriate cable (Expert Sleepers) and a converter (e.g. Korg KMS30), use that to drive Ableton and everything else.

But I have to agree with Hainbach, IME slaving a DAW does not work well. Better to have it as the master.


nice one.
I'll give the trigger a go. I know what you mean. I'm just trying to use ableton for as little as possible at the moment. Just leave it running on record and work with the hardware I have.
flo
Cool. The trigger is programmed on the rimshot. It's only 5V though AFAIR, so if you need more you might have to amplify or convert it at some point in the modular...

Another thought: if all you want to do with Ableton is recording one take, so no multitracking, you don't need to sync it at all. Only necessary if you wanna multitrack (and also only if you need to use midi outputs on the consecutive takes). Otherwise you can just record in Ableton without matching tempo and start / stop - just make sure you disable "warp" in the audio files after recording (otherwise Ableton will timestretch the audio files to the tempo set in Ableton).
Junior
Yeah, that would be a lot easier, but unfortunately, I like to use my modular alongside a load of rack stuff (Wavestation, D-550, M1 etc...) so I need to multitrack to trigger and record them.
en c rmato
I use korg esx as master clock to the midi module and through it to ableton(slave).I don't have Pamelas workout...and yes it is way better if ableton is master.But a very simple solution with ableton is,just set the default warp mode in preferences to complex,tap the tempo and start recording in the arrangement view.This works for me most of the time even if i change the tempo on a hardware jam,meaning that if something needs edit or move around an audio,this can be done with no real problem.
scozbor
i've always wanted to sync ableton to crazy, weird, modular derived clocks and watch it freak out. lol
Jaypee
bump, couple of years after...anyone tried this with succeed? smile
drowld
Not sure how the expert sleepers modules handle this.
jonnosan
I use the Synthrotek MST MIDI to CV module, I haven't tried syncing to Ableton but I have used it to sync via midi clock to a Kaos Pad 3+

The biggest issue I had with that module is it wants (and sends) a clock pulse per quarter note, whereas the other modules I have with a clock in/out (e.g. Flame Tame Machine) work on 16ths, so I need to divide on way in or multiply on way out. I was hoping there may be a jumper or something to configure the Synthrotek to work on 16ths but seems no way to change it.
flo
We are talking CV-midi, not midi-CV...
jonnosan
The Synthrotek module is called 'MIDI to CV' but it does also have a CV clock in to MIDI clock out function
The Grump
The answer is NO. Ableton uses an audio rate sync to run its clock. If you try to sync it to MIDI, it will try to rewarp all of its audio with every pulse it receives via MIDI or din. This is the case even if all audio devices in Ableton or turned off.

People have talked about trying to ReWire in something or sync'ing it with a wordclock generator, but I've yet to see any of that work. The closest you will probably ever get it sending clock from your modular to a Link enabled device and then Linking that with Ableton.
Bath House
I'm using an MC-4 as the master clock in my studio. It sends stuff all over the place but most importantly for this discussion it sends DIN sync into a Korg KMS-30, which turns it into MIDI clock, and I slave Ableton to that. It takes about 3 or 4 bars to really lock in but once it does I can grab clips of pretty much everything and it all seems to stay in great sync - so much that I often get confused as to what's live audio and what's a clip playing back. I'm pretty happy with this setup esp. now that I have a Push 2 to control Ableton.
Helmey
I use a Hinton Gearbox to generate a MIDI clock from my modular to sync drum machines, and especially my friend's Elektron gear to my modular. It's an amazing piece of technology and works really well. I just don't use it that way very often (although I plan to use it more in conjunction with with my Tri-ger).

I'm usually clocking everything with my Multiclock, or from MIDI/DIN to CV.
Funky40
ok, the OP is from years back, the question remains.........


i just stumbled over this M4L device: Beat seeker
https://www.ableton.com/de/packs/beatseeker/#?item_type=max_for_live

made that a drummer can clock live with his play etc.
you send a audio click in, Beatseeker will seek to clock ableton to it wink
i don´t have it, but will much likely try it out.................its 15.-CHF/$? right now
Leverkusen
Funky40 wrote:
ok, the OP is from years back, the question remains.........


i just stumbled over this M4L device: Beat seeker
https://www.ableton.com/de/packs/beatseeker/#?item_type=max_for_live

made that a drummer can clock live with his play etc.
you send a audio click in, Beatseeker will seek to clock ableton to it wink
i don´t have it, but will much likely try it out.................its 15.-CHF/$? right now


I have this but I am not really sure how it works. To me it seems to be more about slight tempo shiftings. The Tempo stays generally in the same region it initially was but slightly shifts up and down with the input. Usually I connect a human drummer it but I tried an input clock as well and did not get it to a point where it really clocks ableton, just slightly shiftings of the initial tempo.

I think it assumes that you stay in your chosen tempo tries to extrapolate possible tempo shiftings and interprets everything else as being funky.

I have to look into it more but it seemed to work good with the human drummer.
The Grump
What part of "Ableton needs an audio-rate clock source to maintain stability" do you folks not understand? Generally, that clock source comes from the host machine's CPU. You can try to slave Ableton to MIDI, and it might stay in for a short period, but as soon as you do anything even mildly CPU intensive, your timing goes bye-bye. That's why Link is the way it is.
idontknow
Hey
So this question kinda interest me, as I was thinking about taking my modular in this direction.
However, I'm not really working in live but in logic (I still use live but not to record things).
So my idea was this, sending a clock from my computer threw usb to the malekko 4hp usb sync module, then tweak it with something like maths or O_C, send it to the ladik m-330 clock to midi module and then send it to my midi hub to control my machines (or directly into the midi in of the one I want to tweak).
As I don't have all the modules yet, it's still a theory, as I don't really know how the ladik get its clock (I'm not sure I can feed him regular square trig..) and how it reacts to strange behaviours.
It's not exactly what you were looking for I guess as I plan this for live recording (meaning I don't need it to sync to anything in my daw, just make strange changing clock effects sync to a base tempo) but maybe you'll find it interesting.
This "idea" is coming from a heavy listening of Roly Porter's third law album, which is amazing..
Montgomery Word
easy. i've done it a few times. i've used silent way and a korg sq1.
the sq1 way was easiest. i just clocked the sq1 from modular then ran the midi out cable to sync ableton. silent way just takes modular thru a d.c. coupled interface and reads the clock. or you could use expert sleepers modules with silent way.
i have also used the little 1/8" to midi cable included with my sq1 to throw clock to my mpc1000. it synced fine. no transport but why would you need that.

folks need to stop being dicks when there's always a solution and no one needs to act higher than thou.
lvankanten
Could you go into more detail on which Silent Way plugin will read a modular clock? And then how to setup Ableton to sync to that plug-in?

I have an ES-6
Olywood
The new Erica Synth Midi to Clock V2 let you switch Ins and Outs by flipping a switch.

http://www.moogaudio.com/erica-synths-midi-to-clock-module-v2-p-11554. html
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