pretending a cocoquantus

home of post-70s electronics

Moderators: Kent, bartlebooth

User avatar
dude
fuck yeah!
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: northeastohio

pretending a cocoquantus

Post by dude » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:28 pm

i am not actually (maybe that will change) in the market for a cocoquantus but with another sid in my future, replicating (as a game in my head) my old setup has been entertaining me as i move through my day.

i thought it might be fun to share peoples ideas about how to roughly replicate the cocoquantus through the use of different instruments/formats or what have you.

keep in mind, this is totally just for fun and maybe educational in terms of breaking down the cocoquantus.

User avatar
chorus7
Yeah that's right
Posts: 1112
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: Prince Edward Island

Post by chorus7 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:46 pm

As far as sampling goes the Tyme Safari MK2 does a super close job of the CQ... You would need two and then the modifiers...

User avatar
mrbloor
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:59 am
Location: London
Contact:

Post by mrbloor » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:47 pm

That's a tough one, I love the sound quality. The red panda particle is awesome with Sid I have also been using a marantz pmd cassette with endless tapes, these are great with 2 speeds and pitch control.
Another fun device is the Martin Howse Black Death synth, I specified more sampling and less plague code.

I have yet to use Sid & coco together :tu:

User avatar
bartlebooth
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:26 pm
Location: DC

Post by bartlebooth » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:48 pm

rodrigo made a pretty kickass cocolase emulation for the monome:

[video][/video]

User avatar
dude
fuck yeah!
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: northeastohio

Post by dude » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:52 pm

is that coltrane my fav things being 'treated'?

wow that monome device would be amazing as dedicated hardware. really gorgeous!

i am thinking of a hifi modcan knockoff concept.

User avatar
dude
fuck yeah!
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: northeastohio

Post by dude » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:09 pm

maybe modcan b series (i would do a pic if i could get the software going again but it isn't working.

4 slopes via 2 dual lfo's (osc's of quart at least with both waveforms covered-ish). i might rather have two full digital delays plus they sample/loop. that would enable full banana if going a-series or new 73b dual delay. over powers in hifi/features but lacks sampling mode capacity
dual vca. could get ducking stuff going on with bipolar cv ins.

could go crazy on the deep end...cv mixers scanner/ s/h or miniwave for latchings and 8 bits.

User avatar
mrbloor
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:59 am
Location: London
Contact:

Post by mrbloor » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:14 pm

I think my suggestions are the cheapest :hihi:

User avatar
Nelson Baboon
droolmaster0
Posts: 9168
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:26 am

Post by Nelson Baboon » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:20 pm

I've never had anything that approximates the workflow. I suppose that one can go through contortions with other gear, but I don't think that you'd get this aspect of it. Ultimately it seems like the same question that is frequently asked - how do I emulate THIS piece of gear with other equipment. Generally the answers ignore workflow.

a scanner darkly

Post by a scanner darkly » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:20 pm

Two Phonogenes, a Benjolin and some utilities including a dual VCA for AM would be an interesting variation of Coco functionality me thinks.

User avatar
dude
fuck yeah!
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: northeastohio

Post by dude » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:50 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:I've never had anything that approximates the workflow. I suppose that one can go through contortions with other gear, but I don't think that you'd get this aspect of it. Ultimately it seems like the same question that is frequently asked - how do I emulate THIS piece of gear with other equipment. Generally the answers ignore workflow.
i completely agree. just having a little game.

User avatar
pas
bump
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:34 am

Post by pas » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:43 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:I've never had anything that approximates the workflow. I suppose that one can go through contortions with other gear, but I don't think that you'd get this aspect of it. Ultimately it seems like the same question that is frequently asked - how do I emulate THIS piece of gear with other equipment. Generally the answers ignore workflow.
On tha '$ Gene,

but I dig the modcan idea for faking it in HiFi, I sort of do already w/ the 59a...Liam had me thinking & though I've never used the mungo g0, I did bring it up to him, so could you euro cats chime in? would it also be a new, fun, elaborate version, take on coco? Basically what scanner said but replace phonogenes w/ g0's? ...Again, all about a good time, not a serious replacement. Jus' foe phun.

User avatar
pugix
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:23 am
Location: Asheville, NC
Contact:

Post by pugix » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:01 pm

It all depends on what you mean by emulation. My Quantisise project can emulate the Quantussy oscillator architecture, which it is based on. The workflow is entirely different, though, using patch cords and switches for routing. The chaos function is similar, but different. The VCOs have one wide range instead of three overlapping ranges. It might be better to say my project pays homage to the Cocoquantus.

http://pugix.com/synth/quantasise-project/
Richard
https://www.pugix.com

"Everything in our world is actually always modulated by everything else." - Peter B

a scanner darkly

Post by a scanner darkly » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:16 pm

I agree it would be difficult to implement Cocoquantus functionality close enough especially with how the different parts interact and influence each other. To me the main defining qualities of Coco are the delay core with ability to lock a sample and flip/skip it and CV delay time, so Phonogene seems like a good fit for that, and quantussy as a chaotic modulator and a potential sound source, Benjolin seems to have similar qualities, especially the Rungler part with one oscillator sampling the output of another. Should probably add touch plates as well to replicate the node interaction.

User avatar
windspirit
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3050
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:43 pm
Location: krellifornia

Post by windspirit » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:41 pm

I actually build a PD object that replicates the timing algorithm of the coco as a phasor. This way it can drive not just loops/ delay lines but also sequencers, wave table oscillators and generally anything else that uses a phasor. Oh yeah and you can sync it to a clock ;).

I haven't released it because I haven't compiled it for windows or Mac (only Linux) but I could release the code and then others could maybe compile it and we could stick it all into the same package.

All this came from awhile back when I wrote a max patch that basically emulated the cocolase (original model) but which was not 100% accurate in the skip department due to the phasor~ object only resyncing on the asynchronous clock through messages and not signals. I had to use a feedback SAH patch which means using a small block size and sometimes high sampling rate if you don't want it to freak out (which is also fun sometimes). Also willing to share that.

Obviously nothing replaces fiddling with the box yourself but I like the digital versions for different reasons than the analog one now that I finally have my hands on on it.

Oh yeah rod that mono me patch sounds amazing!

User avatar
adolfgottmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by adolfgottmann » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:19 am

Is there some sort of block diagram of cocoquantus architecture? It would be very helpful. Does anyone have specifics on the timing algorithm?

User avatar
wednesdayayay
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:17 am

Post by wednesdayayay » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:29 am

look at pugix's post the quantasise just a couple before yours

his project documentation is the way I better understood the inner workings (at least think I understand them)

User avatar
adolfgottmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by adolfgottmann » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:48 am

Thank you, I missed that

Edit: read it. I think to emulate just the quantussy with eurorack modules one would have to drop a lot of money...and i think the resulting fm/s&h/feedback network woul be really hard to tame. Just my opinion
Anyway, what about the 2 coco samplers? Have they special features or are they just in the range of phonogene/g0/nebulae?

User avatar
wednesdayayay
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:17 am

Post by wednesdayayay » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:32 pm

each individual coco (form the coco2) has these input/outputs
1 delay only Audio output (grey this is great for modulating anything but a fun place to start is the SP AF {purple} of the same coco)


for the flip and skip inputs it may help to understand how they are triggered now understand this "manual" is from several iterations of the instrument before it got to this point so there is no "ip" knob unfortunately
http://ciat-lonbarde.net/cocolase/man/index.html

go down until you see the triangle waveform a little more than halfway down the page marked with "to" and "fro" and read the surrounding text as it should illuminate the flip and skip triggering
1 Flip (green) the flip will change the direction of playback. This can also be modulated fast enough for a decent sounding reverb with 0 chaos and the petals switch at theta rate with the overall tussy speed knob at about 9 or 10 oclock



1 Skip (also green) can do granular or skip around big blocks or audio depending on how quickly it is set

Sp AF (purple) this is the input which will change the delay time the SP AF knob is an attenuverter

the iron cross output is a beefy square'ish wave which represents either how big the delay time is or where you are at in the delay line I forget which

the two set of blue inputs are for panning audio type effects for whatever is coming into the coco
one effects set the input and one set effects the feedback. For panning simply put a TRi output (the orange naners in the middle) into both cocos one Verso and one inverso. ( I know that was a bad explanation have a look at my video here [video][/video] ) ok start the video around 3 minutes in as the time stamp doesn't seem to be working

there is a green input for things like a banana output from the plumbutter or the tussy section

there is also a green input (which looks more like it is part of the middle section but they are for the coco's) per side next to the loop/delay toggle. The input will toggle on and off depending on the voltage at the input.

there are also three other kind of inputs
2x 1/8 in the middle which allows a single cable to pipe audio into both cocos
1/8 far left of instrument which is for the piezo input (there is a white output above it) piezo disks sound stunning through the coco give it a try
mic input which also has it's own white output jack

both the mic and piezo inputs have volume knobs

I haven't really done much CV looping with the CQ2 but it seemed to work well on the original.

I'm sure there is much I'm missing but I feel myself rambling
Last edited by wednesdayayay on Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dude
fuck yeah!
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: northeastohio

Post by dude » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:24 pm

sumpting aboot dis video posted won'nt be play pla pl p ing

User avatar
chorus7
Yeah that's right
Posts: 1112
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:13 pm
Location: Prince Edward Island

Post by chorus7 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:28 pm

there is no "ip" knob unfortunately
This I find intriguing :hmm: does anyone know if this is something that could be added to the Coco2? If the circuit is still on the board but just not brought out?

User avatar
dude
fuck yeah!
Posts: 9990
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: northeastohio

Post by dude » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:52 pm

this topic has me realizing that i have pretty mu ch made a bastard semi coco version in my little makenoise euro skiff:

Image

User avatar
adolfgottmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by adolfgottmann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:02 am

dude, I have the same set of modules (erbeverb aside) + another 6u, but I don't feel like I have a semi coco (judging from the demos on youtube, I don't have one). There is something missing, maybe just workflow, I don't know...

User avatar
wednesdayayay
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:17 am

Post by wednesdayayay » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:36 am

@adolf do you see the big barred sidrax that sits on the table? That is also a Ciat lonbarde I would imagine that can be used as a sort of quantussy except it has seven voices instead of five with a few other differences.

A big part of the coco is the quantussy modulation
As it can be everything from LFO to sound source and with the chaos knob turned up it dances I between the two
sh is the sound of data
bobo is the gesture

PB

User avatar
adolfgottmann
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:00 am
Location: Europe

Post by adolfgottmann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:50 am

ah, ok, my mistake
and also I'm in the frame of mind of pretending a cocoquantus without any ciat-lonbarde gear, 'cause I can't have one :waah: :waah:

User avatar
wednesdayayay
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1580
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:17 am

Post by wednesdayayay » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:19 am

do you use max/msp at all? if so rodrigo (who I haven't seen on here or on the monome forums for a while :waah: ) made an excellent monome centric cocolase emulation. It is a bit different than a cocoquantus but you could get your hands/ears dirty.

http://monome.org/docs/app:monolase

I really wanted a cocoquantus after playing with monolase.
sh is the sound of data
bobo is the gesture

PB

Post Reply

Return to “Ciat-Lonbarde”