Old Roland CV/Gate with Doepfer System

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KSP
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Old Roland CV/Gate with Doepfer System

Post by KSP » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:19 am

Hi

Just got my Roland SH-09 with the intention of controlling my Doepfer system.

but...

I just found out old Rolands send out a +15v gate signal as oppose to 5v..

Am I going to kill/fry my Doepfer ADSR´s or other modules with this gate-signal or should/would/could it work either way?

/Best Regards
Johan, Sweden

Blackened Justice
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Post by Blackened Justice » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:39 am

You should really attenuate it. If it were below 12V, I don't think it would do much harm, but 15V is over the PSU voltage, so yes, you might fry something.

unintentional states
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Post by unintentional states » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:51 am

Hmm, good to know. I too have an SH-09 I plan on using as part of a eurorack system and wouldn't have thought of this!

KSP
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Post by KSP » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:22 am

Aaah..

I´ve tried it now for a few seconds and it actually seems to work fine but of course it feels quuuiiiiteee risky, wouldnt want to melt any of my gear.

I only use Doepfer and one would assume they have voltage-protected inputs..

However, a friend of mine gave me some tips about making your own 1/4" + 1/8" cable with a 5v Zener-diode in the 1/4" end of the cable, ensuring it only puts out 5v..

/J

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worker8
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Post by worker8 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:23 pm

Why don't you ask Dieter Doepfer ?

Perhaps he's the most qualified to answer ...

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Post by Transistor » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:24 pm

For what it's worth, I use my tb-303 to sequence my modular quite often and this works fine- not sure what it sends out though.

Maarten

KSP
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Post by KSP » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:46 pm

worker8 wrote:Why don't you ask Dieter Doepfer ?

Perhaps he's the most qualified to answer ...
Hmm, well thought..

Easiest way of contacting Mr Doepfer himself is?

/J

KSP
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Post by KSP » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:48 pm

worker8 wrote:Why don't you ask Dieter Doepfer ?

Perhaps he's the most qualified to answer ...
Hmm, well thought..

Easiest way of contacting Mr Doepfer himself is?

/J

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Chuck E. Jesus
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Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:05 pm

KSP wrote: Easiest way of contacting Mr Doepfer himself is?

/J
sign up on the Doepfer email list, he reads and responds all the time (or someone else will)...

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/


btw: i use a Roland MPU101 midi>cv box with my eurorack, never had any problems...

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haven
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Post by haven » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:49 pm

The Cwejman S1mk2 MIDI to CV interface also puts out +15v for its gates and triggers.

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worker8
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Post by worker8 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:12 pm

KSP wrote:
worker8 wrote:Why don't you ask Dieter Doepfer ?

Perhaps he's the most qualified to answer ...
Hmm, well thought..

Easiest way of contacting Mr Doepfer himself is?
You can contact him here : hardware@doepfer.de . Else, you can post on the Doepfer's Yahoo Group.

I would ask about the warranty too. Who knows ?

KSP
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Post by KSP » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:21 pm

Yep will do, thank u very much!

I'll get back with Dieters answer if/when I get it

/J

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wetterberg
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Post by wetterberg » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:39 pm

while you sign up for the mailing list, perhaps do a search there too? I know it was discussed this year

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Adam-V
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Post by Adam-V » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:33 pm

I'm fairly certain the digital inputs on doepfer modules use transistor input stages specifically to avoid these issues with system interconnection. I think they are set up such that any voltage over about 2.5V is considered High.

Cheers,
Adam-V

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Adam-V
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Post by Adam-V » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:51 pm

Here you go, from the yahoo group archives:

> From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:11 PM
> Subject: Gate and Trigger voltages
>
> A short comment concerning gate/trigger voltages:
>
> The absolute voltages of gate and trigger signals is not important (e.g. +12V,
> +8V, +5V) as each digital input (gate, trigger, clock and so on) of the A-100
> triggers with any voltage more than about 2.5V (transistor input stages for all
> digital A-100 inputs). So there is no difference if you trigger e.g. the A-140
> or A-150 with +5V, +8V or +12V. Any voltage more than about +2.5V triggers the
> input. This applies for all digital inputs of the A-100 modules. I hope this
> clears the discussions concerning the absolute gate or trigger voltages. Only if
> a gate or trigger voltage is "abused" as an analog voltage the voltage level
> (+5V, +8V, +12V) has a meaning.
>
> Best regards
> Dieter Doepfer
> Doepfer Musikelektronik GmbH
> http://www.doepfer.de
> email: hardware@...

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computer controlled
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Post by computer controlled » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:49 pm

Yeah, i use my 303 and 101 to sequence my modular, nothing bad has happened to it.
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by KSP » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:00 am

Excellent!

Recieved a positive answer from Dieter!

"The gate inputs of the A-100 ADSRs (e.g. A-140, A-141) cannot be damaged by
15V gate signals. As long as the SH-09 gate output is connected to the gate
inputs of A-140 or A-141 no problem will occur. But to be on the safe side
I'd recommend to use an attenuator (A-183-1) in case that the gate is
connected to other inputs of modules. Some modules have inputs that will not
withstand 15V.

Best regards
Dieter Doepfer
Doepfer Musikelektronik GmbH"

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Karl Jeffers
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Post by Karl Jeffers » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:54 am

I use a TR909/606/TB303/System100 all the time with doepfer modules.
You can only damage ic's if you apply more voltage than the ic can handle. Some CEM chips have 12V as max and they are used in some Doepfer modules.

There must be a list of modules that can't handle more than 12V on the Yahoo group.

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Post by KSP » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:00 am

Thanks Karl
Karl Jeffers wrote: There must be a list of modules that can't handle more than 12V on the Yahoo group.
Anyone who's a Yahoo-member who can search this???

/J

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doepferiano
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Post by doepferiano » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:02 am

From the Doepfer website HERE

These modules will be damaged with +/-15V supplies: A-106-6, A-107, A-109, A-122, A-126, A-127 (old version), A-129/2, A-130 (old version), A-131 (old version), A-134 and A-135. These modules use the Curtis chips CEM3381, CEM3382 or CEM3379. The max. supply voltage allowed for these integrated circuits is +/-12V. A +/-15V supply will destroy the (very expensive) CEM circuits ! The new versions of A-127, A-130 and A-131 (all manufactured from ~2001) use CA3080 or LM13700 instead of the CEM circuits and will run with +/-15V without problems. Even the old versions of the modules A-148, A-150 and A-151 will not work with +/-15V. These modules may be damaged with +/-15V supplies too but the parts that may be destroyed (CD4052 or CD4053) are much cheaper than the expensive CEM chips. The old version of A-148 was manufactured until end of 1998, the old version of A-150 until summer 2004 and the old version of A-151 until spring 2005. The old versions of these modules can be identified by the type of electronic switches: in the old versions CD405x were used (CD4052 or CD4053), in the new versions DG4xx are used (DG409 or DG442 in the A-148, DG409 in the A-150 and A-151).

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