Yet Another Give-Me-Input-On-My-First-6U Thread

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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porfiry
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Yet Another Give-Me-Input-On-My-First-6U Thread

Post by porfiry » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:16 pm

Greetings, been lurking for months now, reading up on modules, getting "modular" with various software synths, etc. I'm pretty much getting a handle on where I'm going with synths, getting really sick of the computer, and getting ready to dive in on some Eurorack action. I tend toward rhythmic patches, whether it's literally percussive or just rhythmic nuttiness modulated into existence with S&H'd noise.

I already have a Sherman, so keep that in mind...it gives me VCF, a normal ADSR, a simple-but-rather-tasty LFO, etc., above and beyond what's in this 6U. It's also the main reason for the format jumbler...I Iooked at the A-181, but don't see much need for the stereo side of that.

Fire away at what's missing, what's overkill, what's just stupid. One big question: are mixers absolutely necessary for the A-161, or will mults do the job? Other smaller questions: is the Asys comb vastly inferior to the Doepfer BBD? Is the clockwork too much for a system this small? Also, I realize I'm going to want a slew limiter with that S&H...what's the tiniest decent option there? I'm kind of planning on getting the MW case, so I could lose the .BAM I suppose.

This system will definitely grow, but even getting this much right now is probably going to require pricing out my left nut on the black market. :omg:

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:29 pm

get the osc-02 instead of the osc-01.
Get rid of the Format Jumbler -you don't need it, you just need adaptors on your cables, that's easy. Put a mixer there instead. And yes, a mixer is different than a mult when used with a sequencer/divider.
dunno about the asys comb, it probably sounds better than the doepfer... but that's just a guess.

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Post by RetBody » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:30 pm

Assuming the Sherman, that looks pretty cool. The one thing to be aware of that the format jumbler is a fancy mult, I don't believe it corrects for the differences between synth and line level. If you use that to go out to the Sherman, the level will be VERY high, and the level back will probably be VERY low. Something like the Harvestman Stilton Adapter would work much better, but it wouldn't fit in the space you have left , or the Cwejman ai-2 wich is very expensive.

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Post by shamann » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:34 pm

I agree you probably won't need the BAM if you're getting the MW case.

I'd also reconsider the format jumbler if you don't have any gear that uses banana jacks. You already get six four-way mults on the MW case, and you could easily get 1/4" to 1/8" cables for integrating the Sherman. That way you'd regain rack space and save some money, since the cables will only set you back $10 each.

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Post by wetterberg » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:34 pm

yeah, an a-138d should do nicely.

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Post by SquidInSquidInk » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:40 pm

Interesting - I just ordered an MW case and my first modules, and like you I already own a Sherman. I chose several of the same modules as you did. Has anyone ever posted anything negative about the Maths or the QMMG on this forum? Not that I've seen.

I considered the Clockwork, but scratched it for the reason you mention - it takes up a lot of space in a 6U.

For random stuff, most people recommend either a Wogglebug or Noisering.

Once my stuff arrives, I'll let you know how the patching with the Sherman goes. I'm hoping the MW attenuators are sufficient.

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Post by NV » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:14 pm

I agree that you don't need the Format Jumbler. It's a great deal of space for something that could essentially be accomplished using adapters. Plus I much prefer adapters over panels that do the same thing - it puts a serious kink in the flow of things to have to run a cable into and out of another module to change formats as opposed to simply plugging the cable into an adapter. I have both 1/8" and 1/4" formats throughout my system using adapters rather than format panels and it's much preferable in my opinion. Plus they're only about $0.50 each on eBay or at part suppliers, or $5 at Guitar Center if you feel like spending money.

The Clockwork is a big and highly specialized module, particularly for a 6U system. If you're huge into clocking then it may be your cup of tea, but then again you may find that it's not nearly as useful as it would be if you had a couple sequencers to go along with it other than the A-161. It's really a personal preference/workflow thing so it's hard to make a recommendation one way or another. Note that if you toss in an extra mixer the Clockwork can also function as a pseudo-sequencer in a somewhat different way than the A-161, so that's something to keep in mind.

You'll want a mixer or attenuators for the A-161; otherwise it's just sending out sequential high gates. Combining it with an adjustable mixer turns it into a CV sequencer rather than a gate sequencer, which immediately makes it enormously more capable. You could use three channels of the QMMG for it and then use the fourth as a last VCA in the chain, although ultimately I would recommend tossing in something like the A-138c Polarizing Mixer, not only for turning clock signals into sequences but also since having bipolar mixing is a huge and often overlooked benefit for CV signals.

As far as the Sherman goes, I have one which I regularly integrate with my modular. There are no problems with the levels between the two, particularly when you adjust the input drive. Definitely don't rely on the LFO in it though - it's quite simple and sometimes seems to get a bit confused when you have a complex signal going into it triggering the envelopes and tracking and so on. The Sherman will immediately double the timbre capabilities of that system though, so you'll definitely appreciate having it.

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Post by camo livers » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:32 am

The clockwork is definitely a tempting module. The sample hold is a nice choice as well. I have always been preferable to the dalek modulator. Find space for that one

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Post by porfiry » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:14 am

Thanks all for the comments so far. I've taken a lot of that into account, read up on more modules, revisited some I've tossed around for months, etc. I also decided to go for a Mission 9 instead of the MW case, so I'm not jamming this thing full right off the bat.

Row 3 of said case might be set aside for a solid row of Asys, like a full traditional synth voice. My lust for those goddamn limey modules knows no bounds. Their little authoritarian modules make me feel all sexual inside, like a 60s Canon rangefinder. The RS95E even has a crazy multi-turn ASA dial so you make sure you get the perfect exposure on your ramp wave. :deadbanana:

Thanks NV for the thumbs-up for general Sherman compatibility, and for pointing me at the polarizing mixer...even though I pitched the 160/161 in this new layout in favor of an actual sequencer, I thought I probably needed one of those anyway. And a couple other utilitarian 4hp treats.
SquidInSquidink wrote:Has anyone ever posted anything negative about the Maths or the QMMG on this forum? Not that I've seen.
A couple people in a thread the other day didn't like the direction certain Maths knobs turn. :)

So, I'll be buying the box in two weeks, and the first maybe 3 modules two weeks after that. Suggestions welcome on what might be the best few to start with.

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Post by wetterberg » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:10 am

that's a dope rig. I like the inclusion of the dual atten, and the seq-02 is definitely a fun source of voltages - up to 12(!) voltage outs from there, in fact.

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Post by Synesthesia » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:17 am

I would replace one of the z3000 with a OSC-2 ...

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Post by Yohda » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:27 am

For me, I would replace the Asys S/H with a wooglebug, I have both and the wooglebug is a lot more flexible and fun.

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Post by porfiry » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:40 am

I guess the thing I'm not thrilled about with the MFB is that it's not FMable...I luvs the FMing. I also like sines for the FMing sometimes, and the MFB is a little light on those. I momentarily had an Asys RS95E thrown in this revised rig, but thought better of it due to its lack of FM, too.

The reason I bailed on the Donut is that I figured if I wanted Atari sounds at some point, I could just fuck up these waveforms with a Malgorithm or something, instead of dumping over 400 clams on an oscillator. Heh.

Wetterberg: when I was first looking at building a modular, I was kind of planning on buying a full MFB rig for a while...the kraftzwerg demo vids floating around out there are pretty appealing. But it seems like the only module there's real love for in here is that sequencer, and it definitely is a steal.

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Post by porfiry » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:11 am

Yohda: the wogglebug has no white noise source though, right? That's kind of integral to my KarpLust. I will definitely need more delay-based things in here at some point too.

The Wogglebug has made it in and out of my planner about seven times now, and I will definitely end up with one in my second wave of purchases, but I really like old-school S&H too.

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Post by parasitk » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:14 am

porfiry wrote:Yohda: the wogglebug has no white noise source though, right? That's kind of integral to my KarpLust. I will definitely need more delay-based things in here at some point too.

The Wogglebug has made it in and out of my planner about seven times now, and I will definitely end up with one in my second wave of purchases, but I really like old-school S&H too.
Take a look at the Wiard/Malekko Noise Ring. Srsly. :deadbanana:

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Post by mateo » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:42 am

parasitk wrote:Take a look at the Wiard/Malekko Noise Ring. Srsly. :deadbanana:
Does it cover both plain old white noise and old school s&h? I've never seen it used a such.

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:48 am

parasitk wrote:
Take a look at the Wiard/Malekko Noise Ring. Srsly.
Does it cover both plain old white noise and old school s&h? I've never seen it used a such.
I agree. Swap the A.Sys S&H/noise for a Noise Ring.
The Noise Ring does analog white noise, but it's breed of randomness is much cooler than your typical 'old school' S&H.
You get more control over how random it is.

Consider swapping the second Z3000 for an Anti-Oscillator.

A Z3000, a uLFO, and an Anti-Osc. would be a badass trio for analog FM.
Though I suppose some might argue that pairs work well for FM. :hmm:
I'm of the opinion that variety rules.
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Post by berfmurret » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:51 am

that is the coolest rig without a harvestman module that i have seen in a while..

though it must be said it might could be improved if you put that donut back in.. :tu:

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Post by SquidInSquidInk » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:49 pm

Cat-A-Tonic wrote: A Z3000, a uLFO, and an Anti-Osc. would be a badass trio for analog FM.
That's exactly my plan for my 6U oscillators.

I considered squeezing in both a Wogglebug and a Noisering, but that seems like too much functional overlap considering the space available.

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Post by porfiry » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:53 pm

I like the demos I've seen of the Anti-Osc, but it is troubling to me that neither the malekko site nor analoguehaven ever put up an actual description of it, or even a PDF manual I can look at. So I have no idea how the thing operates. What is the FM input on it?

On a related note, I think I'm suddenly convinced of the noisering...it's a similar story on the description, but I hadn't noticed the link to this page, which has descriptions of, and awesome samples of, the frac version.

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Post by parasitk » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:26 pm

Yep you get the analog white noise out, as well as a very controllable S+H on steroids-type effect. It also can veer into chaos territory – not like a Wogglebug though. I think it sits in an odd spot between S+H, repeatable "sequences" and chaos. You can also get digital noises, Atari sounds, drunk stumbling clocks – it's very versatile!

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Post by mateo » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:34 pm

Sound very cool; can you apply S+H to an external signal?

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Post by suboptimal » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:35 pm

The Noise Ring is totally awesome, especially when paired with the A-156. You can create some really nice, musical tones with this combo, especially when in conjunction with the MATHS and QMMG. Sweet chaotically generated melodies through lovely vactrol filtering with evolving envelopes blurping and gurgling. Can't go wrong.

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Post by porfiry » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:11 pm

Yes.
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Post by shamann » Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:20 pm

Maths will work as a slew limiter.

That's a lot of Z3000s. Looking at the system, I have no real sense of what it is you want from it. So what do you want from it? Personally, with 9u to fill, I wouldn't plan how to fill it all right away. I'd start smaller, figure out an essential core, and develop as the need/desire demands. But that's generally how I prefer to do things.

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