So yeah, i really need a buffered multiple!

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computer controlled
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So yeah, i really need a buffered multiple!

Post by computer controlled » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:11 pm

I've found out if i mult my Gate out from the SH-101 to the Dual ADSR and the A-140, the MFB won't trigger unless i take the Doepfer out of the chain. However, it'll work from my TB-303 just fine. I guess the extra 2v on the 303's Gate Out really helps.
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Post by Illiac » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:59 pm

gate 1 of the dual adsr is super finicky about the level it needs. mine wouldn't even trigger from a doepfer A-190. Supposedly there's some sort of mod you can do but Manfred is kind of a dick when it comes to the details of it.

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Post by computer controlled » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:44 pm

Lame. I'll never understand why some mfgrs are so stupid about people modding their stuff.
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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:22 pm

computer controlled wrote:Lame. I'll never understand why some mfgrs are so stupid about people modding their stuff.
Yeah, especially when it's to fix a deal-breaker like an EG with an uber-picky gate input.
FAIL.
Here's to hoping they fix the design flaw in the next PCB revision.
:soapbox:
Wouldn't it be nice if gate inputs always had comparators built in to optimize whatever signal you send them to the expectations of the circuit?

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Post by computer controlled » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:33 pm

It would be nice if they all triggered with as little as a 5v gate. Rather than NEEDING at least a 10v gate.
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by SynthBaron » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:11 pm

computer controlled wrote:It would be nice if they all triggered with as little as a 5v gate. Rather than NEEDING at least a 10v gate.
I thought most envelopes triggered at around 1v.

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Post by computer controlled » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:18 pm

Not the MFB apparently. The SH-101 outputs a 10v gate. If i mult this, it obviously drops by just enough to not trigger the MFB. I'm guess it could only drop by 1 or 2v at the most. However, the "manual" that's included with the MFB states it requires anywhere from a 5-10v gate. Which is obviously false.

Does anyone here have a similar set up to me? I'd like to have someone else try to trigger the MFB with their 101 gate out multied to both Gate Ins on the Dual ADSR and the Gate In on the A-140. I'm using the Doepfer A-180 Multiple.

Can i use a DMM to measure the gate out of my 101?
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by DGTom » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:26 pm

computer controlled wrote:
Can i use a DMM to measure the gate out of my 101?
If its a gate, not a trigger or pulse, should be able to in DC mode with the probes on the end of the lead.

& yeah... I like MFB stuff... but... Manfred is kind of a dick... the fact it won't trigger from an A-190 shows there is a major flaw in both the module & his thinking... he isn't making euro 'standard' modules, he's just making his modules & they happen to fit in doepfer cases, how can he not test it with the Doepfer MIDI-CV :doh:

I realized he was in his own little world when a fellow wiggler posted about the Mixer-OSC debacle.

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Post by Illiac » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:47 pm

DGTom wrote:I realized he was in his own little world when a fellow wiggler posted about the Mixer-OSC debacle.
+1

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Post by computer controlled » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:55 pm

OK, so measured the Gate out voltage of the 101. I got 11.56 when direct out from the 101. The same when put into the multi with no other cables in it. When i put one cable in, the voltage dropped down to 7, and when i put a 3rd cable in, it dropped down to 5.45v. Quite a bit of drop!
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by computer controlled » Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:56 pm

DGTom wrote: I realized he was in his own little world when a fellow wiggler posted about the Mixer-OSC debacle.
What was this?
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by DGTom » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:04 pm

Instead of providing a multi-pin connector on the PCBs... which IMO any sane & rational person would expect... when adding the 8hp expander to the OSC the customer is required to solder multiple wires to tiny little pads on the back of the VCOs PCB... a little DIY is one thing but its just illconcieved, especially considering how tightly packed the MFB boards are. & it doesn't seem to be an after-thought, from the posted pics, the pads where designed into the board, its just a crazy way to do it.

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Post by Illiac » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:05 pm


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Post by Illiac » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:09 pm


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Post by DGTom » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:10 pm

:doh: thats right, its actually worse than I remembered... because those holes look to be the right spacing for connectors.... good idea... badly executed!

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Post by computer controlled » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:10 pm

Strange.
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by suitandtieguy » Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:14 pm

computer controlled wrote:OK, so measured the Gate out voltage of the 101. I got 11.56 when direct out from the 101. The same when put into the multi with no other cables in it. When i put one cable in, the voltage dropped down to 7, and when i put a 3rd cable in, it dropped down to 5.45v. Quite a bit of drop!
that's exactly the issue we had with the Trigger Mini-Store and the .BAM. basically the output impedence was too high. the Trigger Mini-Store wasn't able to advance a Synthesizers.com Q960, and there was droop on the .BAM.

we've got that all squared away for future shipments (i'm actually about to ship a box of replacements to AH), and if anyone is unsatisfied with the performance of their stuff in the field i will replace it or provide service documentation, but it's good to know even Roland can make the same mistake at the peak of their analogue engineering period. :hihi:
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Post by tIB » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:17 pm

hmmmm, getting slightly put of the dual adsr here... was going to buy one before getting a second maths... maybe Ill reconsider.

OT but that mixer osc solder looks crazy, does he install it if you send the osc to him?

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Post by computer controlled » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:19 pm

The Dual ADSR is fine when it isn't multied off more than 2 outs. It seems to trigger down to 7v, but def not 5v.
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by tIB » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:26 pm

^ Thanks for the info, my wallet feels much happier that Im not going to bust it open for another maths!

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Post by Illiac » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:37 pm

oops.

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Post by computer controlled » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:16 pm

Does anyone here know if the Schemos for the A-180 are available? I'm curious if it's possible that there might be a resistor that's dropping the voltages by so much, and replacing it with a smaller one.
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by sonicwarrior » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:11 pm

computer controlled wrote:Does anyone here know if the Schemos for the A-180 are available? I'm curious if it's possible that there might be a resistor that's dropping the voltages by so much, and replacing it with a smaller one.
There is no need for Schemos. The A-180 doesn't have any resistors. The jacks are just connected with each other.

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Post by computer controlled » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:18 pm

Yeah, that's kind of what i though =o/

I wonder if i can increase the gate out voltage on my 101...
Stuff: SH-01A . TR-8S . MX-1 . D-20 . Waldorf MicroQ - Waldorf Microwave II . Ensoniq EPS 16+ . Yamaha MODX6 . MPC Live . Avalon BassLine . Behringer Neutron . Behringer MS-101 . Behringer Pro-1 . Behringer K-2 . Behringer TD-3 . Microvolt 3900 . BeatStep Pro . Keystep .

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Post by sonicwarrior » Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:33 pm

computer controlled wrote:I wonder if i can increase the gate out voltage on my 101...
AFAIK you could solve this by buffering the gate output of the SH-101.
But don't ask me how to do it exactly. I have no real clue. I would just copy the input buffer from the CGS67 with a TL071 or something like that:
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/pic/sc ... 7_rrm2.gif

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