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kyma as a daw
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software  
Author kyma as a daw
buchlidianlundi
even though it's not its intended use, would it be a good choice? is it more powerful than a laptop when recording more tracks at once? latency?
Nelson Baboon
ah - interesting that you post this....

I was trying to do that for awhile, but have pretty much given up. However, depending on what your needs are exactly, it can be used that way in a pretty basic way.

The thing that drove me craziest is that it is rather a pain to multirecord. Of course, this can be done, but the quick record simply records everything into a stereo track, even if you have multiple tracks going in the timeline. So, you really have to set up record objects for every track, which is rather a pain, because when you're not recording, you pretty much have to remove them, or find some other workaround.

However, if you're just recording a stereo track, it works pretty well - at least it did (does) for my purposes.

Also realize that as of the current software, it does not integrate with plugins/core audio, etc, etc. There is hope that there will be an update soon that will bring this capability, but I don't know any details.
buchlidianlundi
thank you for your quick reply nelson!
well that's a curious thing. I would need it for recording, let's say, 4-5 tracks at once, acoustic intruments, and would certainly need some kind of basic mixing facilities
Nelson Baboon
Well, it's not like you can't do this with Kyma, but you'd have to fit its current design to get there. It might be worth it, if you want to record directly into Kyma's processing, but if it's just to record, I'd recommend using a 'real' DAW, and then bringing the tracks into kyma once they are recorded.

I'm sure that you're aware also that the new hardware (paca/pacarana) requires its own audio interface?

If you were going to do this regularly, I'd guess that the best way to accomplish it in Kyma is to save a 'sound' with each track having its own record object.
buchlidianlundi
yes I know it needs a dedicated audio interface. My intention, having limited funds, was trying to avoid buying a daw and investing into an 'electronic performance environment' that could double as that.
Nelson Baboon
Well, if you're talking about a new kyma, I'd say that a daw would be a wise purchase also, given the price of a kyma + interface. I think that sometimes you'd want that ease of use...
poppinger
There are some DAW options around that will give you that workflow for not much more than the price of the Kyma manual.

Reaper is one worth checking out. Personally, I liked it so much that I gave up using Logic.

Ardour is open source but only runs on OSX and Linux.

N-Track Studio is another in that price range I've heard good things about.
timmcg
Kyma can act as a DAW, but it's not as straightforward as Pro Tools or any of the other choices. Even Symbolic Sound who make the unit mention that it's best used as a peripheral to a DAW. I second the motion regarding Reaper. For $60 it's hard to beat and it works with most interfaces.

Here's something that I put together in about a minute to show you how you'd get Kyma to do what you are asking. Just save the 'sound' or patch and open it any time you need to record. To play back your files you would simply need another 'sound' or patch (see second screen grab).
On my system there is 5ms of latency, which I can live with.





I'll send you the Kyma 'sounds' shown in the images if you do decide to get a system. It's endless fun although I don't use it in this fashion. I record into Reaper or Pro Tools and then stream into Kyma via S/PDIF or I use the sample playback prototypes in Kyma and do everything I desire which I then transfer into Reaper or Pro Tools. As for DAW's, I'm weaning myself off of Pro Tools and onto Reaper because I got tired of Avid's policies and gouging. Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Timothy
Roland Kuit
VST pluggins into Kyma?
I hope not.
timmcg
Roland Kuit wrote:
VST pluggins into Kyma?
I hope not.


Why not? AFAIC there are some excellent VST plugs that I use in Reaper that are then streamed to & from Kyma. I do the same with Pro Tools. Why limit yourself.
Roland Kuit
It is just my feeling. If I want VST I would go for a DAW.
I have Kyma because it's Kyma. For me that is enough.
However, I can understand that some people want it all smile
timmcg
I have different ways of operating, based on the kind of work I'm doing. When it's sound design then it's all generated in Kyma & streamed to a DAW where it's recorded, edited & mixed. When I'm creating music I use a different method which I mentioned previously. They're all just tools to me; really cool & fun tools BTW. :-)

Cheers,

Timothy
Roland Kuit
cool & fun tools BTW. :-)

Yes indeed!
felixer
you need to run some computer as the interface/front-end for kyma anyway, right? easy to get a fully functional demo from reaper to try it out. i switched from logic and protools too Mr. Green not a kyma user but i use a separate laptop just for processing/synthesis as you prob would with kyma. reaper will do the plugins ...
rishin
I'm looking into getting a Pacarana right now. How do you guys feel about multitrack recording, automating, and composing inside Kyma now? Has the experience of it improved with subsequent versions? I know they added the Multigrid in Kyma 7 but I'm still not entirely clear on what it does hmmm.....
gosh
It's definitely best not to think of it as a multitrack recording and standard composing suite. You can make work-arounds but it's deliberately not a DAW but a sound design tool. For example, there is no midi piano roll, no ability to view multitrack audio on a timeline or make quick edits etc. You can't record midi in Kyma, or at least not in a conventional way. You could create a midi looper for example and you can process incoming midi in any number of interesting ways (arpeggiators, sequencers, quantisers etc.) and you can write code to generate midi scores and transform data live in an algorithmical way.

The multi-grid bears resemblance to Ableton but that's really where the similarity ends. Instead of playing audio or midi clips each cell in the grid triggers a kyma sound which can be as simple as playing a sample, or as complicated as the paca(rana) will handle - from processing, re-synthesis, morphing etc. Once the grid is loaded there are no pauses of the music so you can combine to your hearts content. If you stumble upon something cool (you will) you can then save that combination of 'clips' as a kyma sound itself - you could then load that into a cell of a new multigrid for example.

I'm still pretty new to Kyma (<6 months) and i'm still finding my way. i definitely have frustrations with it...it's almost deliberately unique...e.g. no really straight forward way to load a sound and sync it with Ableton (you can totally do this but it's not straight-forward), no new integration features such as Ableton Link. Part of me is always thinking should I be investing my time in Max, which is obviously considerably cheaper and feels more '2018' in terms of connectivity...but then that's where the beauty of Kyma lies - in it's ability to get you to think differently and explore new sounds easily. Once you learn the many ways to sync Kyma (with DAWs, instruments, your voice, drum-machines etc.) you realise why it doesn't want you to just sync up to midiclock and leave it running - Kyma works best when being treated in a modular way - a way which allows you to leave the straight confines of your DAW timeline.
rishin
Interesting, thanks for the response gosh. It does make sense that Kyma's primary focus is sound design and so it is a sound design tool, but a sound itself is never all that intriguing; it becomes intriguing when put in the context of other sounds and when it becomes part of some kind of movement, flow, or story. I can't imagine myself using Kyma to solely design sounds and just leave those sounds be. I'm curious about how you and others use it to make pieces that feel complete.
Roland Kuit
The Multigrid can be filled by sound generating constructions like sequenced synthesizers and sample loops (clips)
So you can use it like a dj or create an all interacting instrument with it.
A bit like Ableton, but different. smile

An explanation here on Vimeo

Multigrid by Symbolic Sound
Jcsveth
Quote:
it becomes intriguing when put in the context of other sounds and when it becomes part of some kind of movement, flow, or story.

The Timeline is all about story. It is not a traditional DAW, but is good if not a little clunky at laying out compositions. It also shines for live performances as it can wait for events and such. Placing effects as objects on tracks makes the composition more visual for me as opposed to automation lanes for DAW VSTs. The routing is flexible and I have done a few 6-speaker surround projects in it with great results.
So, I guess I think of it more as a compositional tool rather than a DAW.
rishin
Great to know, thanks! How's the workflow on the Timeline for doing things like playing back specific portions of a piece and making quick automation edits?
gosh
Others may disagree but I'd say that doing simple things like playing back a specific portion of a timeline or making quick automation edits are slower in Kyma then a DAW...but as the others are saying above it's really important not to see it as a DAW - I like Jcsveth's comment that it's a compositional tool. The timeline, multigrid and indeed Kyma can be as simple or as complex as you like. You could trigger simple sounds or loops, start effect processes or trigger entire modular like pieces with inbuilt sequencers, synthesis and sound mangling - or these could be triggered algorithmically or only on certain conditions happen.
How you use it alongside other equipment or a DAW is also up to you. I run Ableton alongside so I can send audio from/to for processing or you could send midi from Ableton to either play Kyma sounds or trigger actions on the timeline/grid or within sounds. For example, you could have a sound where depending on what midi key you play and the velocity it could start an entirely different chain. The only limit is imagination really...which can be a problem if you want quick fix.

Where are you based? I'm near London, Uk and you would be welcome to come see it...
rishin
That's really gracious of you to offer! Sadly, I live in new york city confused. The features for compositional aid do seem extensive from your list though so that's very promising. And if integration with a DAW isn't too troublesome then the possibilities are endless Guinness ftw! Guinness ftw!
Tonefloat01
Why not fly out to the west coast for an immersive KYMA symposium later this year and see & hear the system in person and in action:

https://kiss2018.symbolicsound.com/

It's peanut butter jelly time! Guinness ftw!
rishin
I was very much planning on it w00t w00t hihi
gosh
Wish I could justify a trip!
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