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Studiologic Sledge - Hidden parameters
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> General Gear  
Author Studiologic Sledge - Hidden parameters
Broadwave
So many people keep comparing the Blofeld to the Sledge that, out of curiosity, I loaded up a Blofeld CC editor using Reaktor to see if anything would happen on the Sledge…

I've found a couple of things of interest 8_)

You can access extra filters modes:

CC No. 68

Notch 24dB (Data 7)
Notch 12dB (Data 8)
Comb+ (Data 9)
Comb- (Data 10)
PPG VCF (Data 11)

You can also put the Sledge into Unison Mode:

CC No. 99

Poly Mode - No Unison - as on front panel (Data 0)
Mono Mode - No Unison - as on front panel (Data 2)
Poly Unison - Uses 2 Voices (Data 16)
Poly Unison - Uses 3 Voices (Data 32)
Poly Unison - Uses 4 Voices (Data 48)
Poly Unison - Uses 5 Voices (Data 60)
Mono Full Unison (Data 127)

Unfortunately there is no Unison Detune… But you can set LFO 1, 2 or WM to a slow Sine or Triangle and add a touch of depth to detune.
Bartus
Very interesting!

Can you set a keyboard split as well? hyper
zaphod betamax
Can you save the patches with these hidden parameters?
zaphod betamax
Yes you can. After sending the CC I saved a init file called PPG Sweep.
The PPG filter adds alot of girth to the Sledge 2.


zaphod betamax wrote:
Can you save the patches with these hidden parameters?
johnrule
My apologies if I am necroing this thread, but I would like to keep it alive because I am interested in the hidden CC commands for the Sledge.

Any new discoveries?
zaphod betamax
Yes! All the filter modes can be sent via realtime cc from the control of a Blofeld keyboard. With Blokey as controller MIDI and the Sledge slave, when you select PPG filter on the Blokey, so goes the Sledge!




johnrule wrote:
My apologies if I am necroing this thread, but I would like to keep it alive because I am interested in the hidden CC commands for the Sledge.

Any new discoveries?
JonHolstein
Any new discoveries?
otherwise there are 10 hidden CCs.
I assume, then using the control panels controls would still function, so that there is no need to be able to send the panel CCs from anything external.

In that case, something like the Behringer FCB1010 should be a great compliment to this synth, as it has 10 programmable foot switches. For those 10 hidden commands.
And two midi expression pedals, with start and max value for custom expression commands.
(It does have banks so one can have more than 10 foot switch commands, but that would take away from the directness I assume people looking at the sledge wants, as the Blofeld desktop is so much cheaper even with the Sample upgrade if the sample function of the Sledge is needed, and the Blofeld keyboard comes with that)

There is of course the Behringer BCR2000 that isn't that more expensive, but where would one put it, and what would one do with all the rotaries in combination with the sledge that already has almost every such value on the front.

I'm sure there are lots of other midi controllers, but these days most of them uses USB only, and then a computer needs to be involved unless the controller one finds works with one of the midi converters out there (but some don't send midi, and actually rely on a software running on the computer).
But there are probably some options out there today, from other companies that are equipped with MIDI DIN. But the FCB1010 idea was something that hit me, when I found this thread yesterday.
zaphod betamax
All you need is the patches with each parameter on it, as the Sledge saves each hack with a patch.

For example, you could hane INIT_PPG for the PPG filter, INIT_Comb+, etc, etc. Then you never need to connect the Sledge to anything external aftewards.

If there is enough interest I could quickly fab these up Blokeys>Sledge, save patches>midiox and make a 10 patch INIT.



JonHolstein wrote:
Any new discoveries?
otherwise there are 10 hidden CCs.
I assume, then using the control panels controls would still function, so that there is no need to be able to send the panel CCs from anything external.

In that case, something like the Behringer FCB1010 should be a great compliment to this synth, as it has 10 programmable foot switches. For those 10 hidden commands.
And two midi expression pedals, with start and max value for custom expression commands.
(It does have banks so one can have more than 10 foot switch commands, but that would take away from the directness I assume people looking at the sledge wants, as the Blofeld desktop is so much cheaper even with the Sample upgrade if the sample function of the Sledge is needed, and the Blofeld keyboard comes with that)

There is of course the Behringer BCR2000 that isn't that more expensive, but where would one put it, and what would one do with all the rotaries in combination with the sledge that already has almost every such value on the front.

I'm sure there are lots of other midi controllers, but these days most of them uses USB only, and then a computer needs to be involved unless the controller one finds works with one of the midi converters out there (but some don't send midi, and actually rely on a software running on the computer).
But there are probably some options out there today, from other companies that are equipped with MIDI DIN. But the FCB1010 idea was something that hit me, when I found this thread yesterday.
JonHolstein
Sure, it is true that one can make INIT patches.
But 10 would not cover it.
You would need each option as a separate one. And then a combination of each and every filter combined with each and every unison.
I think that makes it 35 patches, one of each combination of the hidden parameters. And then the 10 with just a single of the hidden parameters, to be combined with the on panel options.

Besides, one would then not have the option to toggle the filter or unison, mid programming.




I had a look on controllers on Thomann; I guess the Arturia Beat Step, should be able to add hardware toggles for the CCs as well.
It is cheaper than the Behringer FCB1010. And comes with more "buttons" and has some knobs as well, in case there are any future discoveries.
It is also a quite nice sequencer. So I'm sure any buyer would be able to put it to use for more than just hardware toggles for hidden CCs in combination with the Sledge.
(the buttons are actually 16 velocity and pressure sensitive finger drumming pads)
JonHolstein
Does the sledge support Poly aftertouch in the latest firmware?
Someone thought it would, as the Blofeld supposedly does.

But potentially that could be another hidden function, if the Blofeld allows for external control over switching between Channel aftertouch and Polyphonic aftertouch.


What is this thing with hidden parameters in stuff.
The Roland Boutique has some as well.
I get that the Sledge has it because they had to limit the front panel in some ways.
But in both cases, they could have at least been mentioned in the manual, even if the settings are not really intended to be used by the average user. For some they might be the deciding factor that tips the scale towards a purchase.
Xmit
Just as an aside, you can do this farily easily from a standard desktop Blofeld too...if you put a computer in the middle, as the desktop only has the USB MIDI out.

I connected my mates Blo' desktop to my laptop running Albeton ( obviously any DAW where you can configure MIDI ins/outs will work ) & my Sledge via USB to both instruments.

By making sure no CC was being filtered etc. it was a doddle :selecting the appropriate filter modes on the Blo desktop duly did the same in my Sledge - I just saved each version as an INIT patch.

The PPG filter is my favourite....
zaphod betamax
The unison modes are a non starter for me anyhow.
Without, unison detune, all you get is phasing.
zaphod betamax
poly AT is set in the Blofeld matrix. The Sledge does not have one.
So, this probably can not be addressed.
JonHolstein
I looked at the Midi CC list for the Blofeld on the online manual.

According to the manual, CC 99 is Filter Envelope Sustain 2.
What does CC 99 actually do on the Blofeld?
Did the Unison discovery not come form the editor?

There is no specified Unison CC for the Blofeld in that manual, though.
So perhaps they have changed the specs.

Is there a CC that does Unison Detune on the Blofeld?
Or how is that controlled from the editor?



I saw on another forum, an image of an editor for the Sledge, that included the second filter.
I guess that filter is handled by the CCs specified in the Blofeld manual, if is actually there in the sledge. If it responds to the envelope, and env amount CC for filter 2, I guess it could actually be used for some stuff (I suspect it would not respond to LFO modulation, though).
(I guess it would be possible to test the second filter, by selecting off via CC, on the first, and set the filter rounting to serial via CC, and then play with the settings for the second filter according to the CCs in the blofeld manual)

I'm also curious about the Ring modulator in the Blofeld, is it there on the sledge.
And LFO Delays do they work?


When I sudied the specifications of the Sledge, there were a some things I wished it had.
One of them was a second filter, so if it is in there, that would make me more interested in the Sledge.
LFO delay was another.
And so was ring-mod.
If those features are in there, it could seriously increase my interest for the Sledge.
Of course Unison with detune was on that list as well... Doesn't seem that promising right now.


One thing it is almost certainly missing from my list is Pitch envelope. I know of the LFO ramp, but that is not exatly the same thing (for it to be in there, they would have had to have designed the synth engine with that and for some reason left it out of the panel, as it would be handled by the Mod matrix on the Blofeld).

Another missing feature is the Superssaw waveform (the Unison modes if Detune was there I guess could have covered that to some extent).

And perhaps last was polyphonic aftertouch. And I did see in the blofeld manual that is was handled in the Modulation source list. And since the keybed of the Sledge doesn't support it, I suspect Studiologic would not be that interested to have Waldorf write that in to the sledge synth enginge.
zaphod betamax
You can dream all you want about other envelolpes, supersaw, and two filters...but if it does not exist in hardware, it is a moot point.

Between myself and others who have experimented with mining the Sledge for hidden treasure, we would have found these secrets by now.
1-still-like-Ike-
Question for any sledge users... Have you noticed any weird bugs on your sledge over the last year? I've had a Sledge 2.1 for about two (2) years, and just today, I noticed what appears to be two new problems that I've never encountered before:

1) When I put "chorus" on any patch, it gets WAY louder than before... but phaser and flanger (or no effect at all) seem to be normal volume. (Or put another way... if chorus is at unity gain, then phaser/flanger/no effect seems to be significantly quieter).

2) My arpeggiator stopped working altogether!! Patches that are "ARP" don't arpeggiate... and even on non-arpeggiated patches, if I turn the arpeggiator ON thru the menu, they still just play like a normal mono/poly patch and the arpeggio doesn't trigger. I tried messing with the velocity setting (saw a youtube video about it) but no luck.

I love my sledge (as limited as it can be sometimes)... it kills me to think I might need to try to get it repaired with studiologic/fatar's minimal U.S. repair network. Any ideas?
Seanc
I am a newbie and really interested in a sledge or blofeld.

But just so I am clear.. at this point the only difference between the yellow and black are color and the keybed on the black is supposed to be better?

Been reading a lot of posts and I am just unclear they are functionally identical.

Thanks
zaphod betamax
Now with the 2.5.1 OS, the only difference is the semi-weighed keys on the Black Sledge.


Seanc wrote:
I am a newbie and really interested in a sledge or blofeld.

But just so I am clear.. at this point the only difference between the yellow and black are color and the keybed on the black is supposed to be better?

Been reading a lot of posts and I am just unclear they are functionally identical.

Thanks
plavski
The keys on the black really are lovely tho
soundshaper
zaphod betamax wrote:
Now with the 2.5.1 OS, the only difference is the semi-weighed keys on the Black Sledge.


Does the update allow for sync to external MIDI clock, namely the arpeggiator and LFO rate? I've been on the fence about getting one of these cause they sound great and the interface is big and fun looking, especially for programming and performance.
zaphod betamax
The Arp might, and I say might as my MIDI clock is a Monotribe MIDI OUT.
But the LFO will not synch, it is keyphased locked, but not phase reset on keypress.
Arp synch on a Blofeld and a Sledge leave much to be desired.
But look at what I use for midi clock!

No LFO rate by midi.


soundshaper wrote:
zaphod betamax wrote:
Now with the 2.5.1 OS, the only difference is the semi-weighed keys on the Black Sledge.


Does the update allow for sync to external MIDI clock, namely the arpeggiator and LFO rate? I've been on the fence about getting one of these cause they sound great and the interface is big and fun looking, especially for programming and performance.
Rex Coil 7
RE; the key action between the black one and the yellow one.

Directly from the Studiologic Sledge info pages....

Black =
61 Keys, TP/9S semi-weighted Action
Balanced spring action

Dual switch detection system
Aftertouch

"The reverse color keyboard perfectly matches the black look and thanks to semi-weighted keys and new balanced springs, gives an unbeatable feeling, for a more satisfying musical experience." ..... "The exclusive dark look includes a black case, a semi-weighted keyboard with reverse black and grey keys and an even more professional touch feeling." ..... "Looks darker. Feels better. Sounds stronger." (end quote).

Link = https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/sledge-black-edition/

Yellow =
61 Keys, TP/9S unweighted
Dual switch detection system
Aftertouch

(no further info on the yellow one)

So per the Studiologic website, the black one has a "semi weighted balanced spring action FATAR TP9S"

The yellow one has an "unweighted FATAR TP/9S" keybed.

The FATAR website describes the TP/9S keybed thusly:

"TP/9S: Universal Keyboard for any kind of instrument (Synthesizers, home organs...). The keyboard is available in various configurations: 37, 44, 49 & 76 weighted and unweighted keys, dynamic or monophonic bubble contacts. Monophonic aftertouch."

So the TP/9S may be had either weighted or unweighted.

I have two keyboards with the semi weighted TP/9S, one is a Dot Com QKB61 and the other is a Kurzweil PC3A6.

Per the Dot Com QKB info page ... "Keybed:
These are not your typical economy, mass-produced, light-weight keybeds found on most modern keyboard controllers - these are quality Fatar units with semi-weighted diving-board style keys providing a solid feel, quick response and professional durability."

Link = https://synthesizers.com/qkb.html

The semi weighted TP/9S is a wonderful synth keybed. In my opinion (whatever that's worth) the extra $100 bucks is well spent on the black Sledge.

(unsubscribed - not mad or having a hissy fit - just trying to keep my number of subscribed threads under better control - if you wish to correspond please feel totally free to send me a PM - thanks!)

thumbs up
zaphod betamax
I will finally be doing a series of tutorials for the Sledge in 2018/19.
For me and the other 11 people who own them worldwide!
unclebastard
zaphod betamax wrote:
I will finally be doing a series of tutorials for the Sledge in 2018/19.
For me and the other 11 people who own them worldwide!

Yes please, that would be a much valued resource, for me and the other chosen few screaming goo yo screaming goo yo screaming goo yo
Lagavulin
zaphod betamax wrote:
I will finally be doing a series of tutorials for the Sledge in 2018/19.
For me and the other 11 people who own them worldwide!


Looking forward to the tutorials!
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