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parasitk
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Post by parasitk » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:16 pm

sascha.victoria wrote:It would be way more exciting to me if you bundled everything in 1 box with some normalizations and banana jacks. But hey, that's just my 2 cents.
I'll raise that to 4 cents! :banana:
Last edited by parasitk on Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

daves
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Post by daves » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:13 pm

Its a nice comparison, but I think it could easily mislead someone into thinking that it is somehow equivalent. First, there are big sections of the Buchla 208 that are cropped out. These are really significant. Second, the same type of comparison can be done with any other set of VCO, VCF, EG, S&H and SEQ and it would have similar paralells. This is not to say that the Wiard designs are no good, just that they are definitely not the same as a Buchla 208, both in circuitry and interface.

science
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Post by science » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:05 pm

Uhh.. I don't think it was implied that these modules are "the same" as a 208. I think you guys are reading a bit too far into it.

If someone was somehow misled into thinking these are an equivalent, based on a "comparison", they probably wouldn't know enough to be able to figure out the difference even with a 208 and these modules in front of them anyway.
Last edited by science on Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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grantrichter
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Post by grantrichter » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:58 pm

It is not equivalent. To say the modules are an "improvement", implies that there was something wrong with the 208 to begin with, which is not true. It is genius for it's time period (1976).

We don't need to steal anyone else's thunder, we have thunder of our own.

The set of six module we are making are closely inspired by the idea of forming a complete instrument from the set. The Anti-Oscillator has three serial wavefolders, as does the complex oscillator. Different circuits true, but the math is the same. I could post o-scope shots showing waveforms that are alike, but I'm just not nerdy enough anymore.

The Envelators construct linear ramps like the 208, just with more options.

The Boogie and Borgs are based on Electro-optical gates like the 292, but with 10 time faster Vactrols.

A flute can not replace a trumpet, and the Malekko/Wiard modules don't replace anything else. They stand by themselves as originals. BUT they were designed on a system level to work together seamlessly and allow many of the unique tones that an instrument like the 208 can produce.

Not show is the programming card connector, voltage inverter, pre-amp, external balanced modulator, 2 channel mixer, headphone amp, 2 inch spring reverb (horror) and final volume control.

None of those is significant to the purpose, so I left them out. No deception was intended. The instrument shown is Serial No. 0, that is the original prototype which I received in pieces and had to reverse engineer in order to restore. So I got quite intimate with it. And I can A/B patches with the new modules and the 208.

The point that is trying to be made is that the six modules are being developed as an instrument, inspired by an instrument which is already legendary for completeness and unique tonality. The set costs less than a 208 also.
daves wrote:Its a nice comparison, but I think it could easily mislead someone into thinking that it is somehow equivalent. First, there are big sections of the Buchla 208 that are cropped out. These are really significant. Second, the same type of comparison can be done with any other set of VCO, VCF, EG, S&H and SEQ and it would have similar paralells. This is not to say that the Wiard designs are no good, just that they are definitely not the same as a Buchla 208, both in circuitry and interface.

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Malekko
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Post by Malekko » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:10 pm

daves wrote:the same type of comparison can be done with any other set of VCO, VCF, EG, S&H and SEQ
:soapbox: ........oh, nevermind
:roll:










































:lick:
parasitk wrote:There are a lot of talented synth designers here, but I'm sorry to say that none of them invented the triangle.

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suboptimal
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Post by suboptimal » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:30 am

grantrichter wrote:We don't need to steal anyone else's thunder, we have thunder of our own.
There is no :sb: big enough.

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porfiry
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Post by porfiry » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:32 am

Jesus christ, I've already bought five modules' worth of this mess, and *now* you fucking tell me it's not going to be an actual Music Easel when I'm done? I thought there was some seriously funny shit going on when none of these turds had "Buchla" printed on them anywhere, but I just let it slide. Live and fucking learn.

As soon as I finish this random FM bongo patch I'm working on, I'm going to give you people a piece of my goddamn mind.

:party:

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johnnymad
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Post by johnnymad » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:36 am

suboptimal wrote:
grantrichter wrote:We don't need to steal anyone else's thunder, we have thunder of our own.
There is no :sb: big enough.
:agree: that's sig worthy!

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adamf
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Post by adamf » Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:46 am

grantrichter wrote:The point that is trying to be made is that the six modules are being developed as an instrument, inspired by an instrument which is already legendary for completeness and unique tonality. The set costs less than a 208 also.
Thanks for this insight into the design of the new modules. Your reputation for building modules that compliment each other on a system level whilst simultaneously being interesting enough to stand up as a singular entities aside from the system is highly renowned and greatly appreciated by those who use them. I'm certainly looking forward to one day enjoying the modules together as a unique instrument.

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felix
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Post by felix » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm

grantrichter wrote:The point that is trying to be made is that the six modules are being developed as an instrument, inspired by an instrument which is already legendary for completeness and unique tonality.
:party:
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
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Soundwave
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Post by Soundwave » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:23 pm

felix wrote:
grantrichter wrote:The point that is trying to be made is that the six modules are being developed as an instrument, inspired by an instrument which is already legendary for completeness and unique tonality.
:party:
+1

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Ivo Ivanov
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Post by Ivo Ivanov » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:57 am

grantrichter wrote:
The set of six module we are making are closely inspired by the idea of formingfrom the set.


The point that is trying to be made is that the six modules are being developed as an instrument, inspired by an instrument which is already legendary for completeness and unique tonality.
So does this mean that the Envelator and Anti-envelope are going to be it for the Malekko-Wiard modules???

I could have sworn Josh mentioned the Euro JAG a while ago ...

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Soundwave
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Post by Soundwave » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:44 pm

btw, i would love to see a touch keyboard like that in the music easel or the buchla 222e :buchla: from malekko or anyone else in the eurorack format...

i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one.

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Monobass
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Post by Monobass » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:13 am

So if I bought all those modules in the original image, including doubles, what other utility modules would be recommended to compliment it?

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jonkull
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Post by jonkull » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:41 am

I personally would recommend the A156 Quantizer and A183-2 Offset/Attenuator/Polarizer to use with the Noisering but that's a matter of personal preference.
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

harolddonnelly
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Post by harolddonnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:55 pm

Man Malekko rules! jeeze! hahhah just thought i had to say that

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J3RK
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Post by J3RK » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:30 pm

harolddonnelly wrote:Man Malekko rules! jeeze! hahhah just thought i had to say that
Well, as long as it was intended to be read in the voice of: "San Dimas high-school football rules!!!!" then I think it's ok. :mrgreen:

And I'll go ahead and second it while I'm at it, and raise you a Wiard!

harolddonnelly
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Post by harolddonnelly » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:22 pm

haha Of course it was supposed to be said in that voice hahah

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jvt
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Post by jvt » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:01 am

porfiry wrote:Jesus christ, I've already bought five modules' worth of this mess, and *now* you fucking tell me it's not going to be an actual Music Easel when I'm done? I thought there was some seriously funny shit going on when none of these turds had "Buchla" printed on them anywhere, but I just let it slide. Live and fucking learn.

As soon as I finish this random FM bongo patch I'm working on, I'm going to give you people a piece of my goddamn mind.

:party:
Help! Can't...breathe...must find...way...to stop...lau... :emt:

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J3RK
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Post by J3RK » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:35 pm

Ordered my second Envelator and AntiOscillator. Need a Boogie and a second NoiseRing now. Waiting anxiously for the Anti-Envelope and a Mix-O-Lat-A-Tron of some kind.

I'm building a folding Buchla inspired 9U case. It shall be the all Wiard/Malekko Music Weasel Plus Plus. :goo:

I may end up putting 4 Envelators in it.

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plord
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Post by plord » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:25 pm

J3RK wrote:Ordered my second Envelator and AntiOscillator. Need a Boogie and a second NoiseRing now. Waiting anxiously for the Anti-Envelope and a Mix-O-Lat-A-Tron of some kind.
WORD.
I'm building a folding Buchla inspired 9U case. It shall be the all Wiard/Malekko Music Weasel Plus Plus. :goo:

I may end up putting 4 Envelators in it.
Gemini for me. Couldn't keep it to 9U.

4 Envelators sounds just about right.

I have my second Borg (1) coming now, waiting to see the $ on the Gemini before I commit to the next batch of Malekko/Wiard.

I probably have room for a Noise Ring now :)

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felix
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Post by felix » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:39 pm

Mixolator Mixolator Mixolator Mixolator

:wookie: :wookie: :wookie: :wookie:
dress yourself for the public. you now must exit your home and acquire a dental mirror and lubrication!
i recommend a hat, or a helmet. if a helmet, ensure that it is both convincing and unbiased. -citizen mori
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/78959
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/225002
https://jimdrones.bandcamp.com

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jonkull
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Post by jonkull » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:09 pm

I said I wasn't going to buy anymore modules...that I was done with my setup for now...but just came back from BCM with two Envelators. It's a sickness. :omg:
If only someone would invent a synth that would allow the end user to determine the functionality. You could pick which functions were important to you in 'modules'. A 'modular', if you will. - Stretta

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J3RK
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Post by J3RK » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:10 pm

I've had a bit of a change in design philosophy. To make it truly portable, as a true Weasel should be I'm going to go 6U. I'll be building multiples and possibly simple mixers into the chassis. MIDI-CV will also be built in. If you think about the Buchla folding cabinet, all of these mix/mult/midi-cv connections will be where the center row of modules would normally be. Then there will be a row at the top, and one that folds down in front of you.

I figure, if I need more than 6U, I have racks for this at home. If I want to go patch in another room, or somewhere else entirely, 6U should do nicely.

The initial set of modules will be what you see below. Of course, Anti-Envelopes aren't available yet. Also, if the Uncle Oscillator is released, I may swap a NoiseRing for that, and put the second one in an external rack. (I like two NoiseRings.) Also, if the Mythical MixOLator were to be similar in size to the Envelator, then I could swap one of those out for one. Here's my thoughts on modules:

Image

4 Envelators is quite a bit, but since the can be used to divide clocks or perform LFO duties, I don't think it ends up being overkill.

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bsmith
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Post by bsmith » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:40 pm

4 Envelators is quite a bit, but since the can be used to divide clocks or perform LFO duties, I don't think it ends up being overkill.
J3RK, thank you so much for all of the samples you've posted - they've definitely been influential on the route I've decided to take as I've started making decisions on how to proceed building my first modular rig. This thread itself has been for sure. See pic below :)
I'm new to all this and want to understand why you'd pick a noise ring to switch for the uncle osc instead of an envelator (the envelator is definitely a madman, as I'm finding out, but so is the noisering, and I'm just curious is all).
By the way, posted a small noodle from messing around with the envelator last night viewtopic.php?t=14037
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