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sequencing from pure data patches
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Software Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next [all]
Author sequencing from pure data patches
lilakmonoke
great, thanks! im on linux so i can try to compile it if there is a makefile ... ill be happy to test, where do i find it?
os
I'll have to make a makefile, hold on. (Been building in Xcode so far.)

It's an ES-5 you have, right?
os
Try this.
ym2612
I added a bunch of my random-related abstractions to the repo. I'll add more as I document them properly and clean them up. Let me know if any of those don't work right or are missing sub-abstractions. The more complex random abstractions all need the DSP to be on, but output floats.

Finished this one tonight, finally - an experiment in working within a scale with fixed-length melodies that self-mutate randomly. This doesn't use any shift registers, just lists. Reading the WATMM Q&A with Autechre turned me on to [zl], which is quite powerful for list manipulation. And reading about how they work has me much more confident about using Pd for all my sequencing in general.

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/149269103" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]



I'd like to try something with Markov chains, maybe next. But I'm realizing that I have melody generation to a point where I'm kind of happy with it, and I'd like to work more on song structure. I'm starting to find a good flow with my Pd coding. I don't get hung up on stupid stuff as often, so that lets me think about high-level ideas more. I'd like to try generating percussion soon, as well as sequencing the Volca Beats from Pd. My iConnectMidi Mio interface was dropping notes a lot with this latest track, and my Scarlett 2i4 less so. I'm starting to think more about going Expert Sleepers.
lilakmonoke
trevor .. i tried to open 208random.pd but it crashes my pd-extended, it goes into some infinite loop. do i need to download all of them first?

also embedded soundcloud tracks stopped working on my browser in muffs so im not sure which track the above is related to. i listened to what i think it is on soundcloud and it sounds good. definitely get an expert sleeper es3 for this it opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

melodies is a tricky thing when generated from logic. most of the time they become emotionally meaningless so for now im keeping it to the bare essentials and stick to the time dimension. i stay with the base harmonic elements like 1,4,5,10,12 and transpositions of that, it always sounds open and modal and you can take it anywhere.

im currently working on a pattern based funk track of which i have the drums structure finished. its called "billy cobham" and is played by a tr-606 which is the perfect funk drum machine. ... http://tindeck.com/listen/afat
lilakmonoke
actually here is a good example of patterns, melodies from lists, harmonics and polyrhythms, this is off the last boc album. their music often sounds like it is coded but i think most of it is just midi from a daw and synths/samplers. its just the perfect balance of man and machine. i would love to find out how they work in detail. also, excellent video!

lilakmonoke
os wrote:
Try this.


so i compiled es5ebcoder~ which went without errors. how do i use it? if i try to use it in a patch in pd-extended get a few error msgs and no abstraction.

Quote:
ELF: no such object
T$ð„Ë: no such object
8: no such object
*3$": no such object
m0rb1d
lilakmonoke wrote:
what is improvised and what is composed can be the same thing. here is the jazz of nick bärtsch: the drums are 4/4, the bass is 5/8 and the piano loops at 20/8 and its all very funky and human. it all depends on what you hear/feel, if you can feel it you can improvise and compose it. thats exaclty what im trying to find out. how far can you push complexity and still feel it.


this is awesome, thank you!
os
lilakmonoke wrote:
so i compiled es5ebcoder~ which went without errors. how do i use it? if i try to use it in a patch in pd-extended get a few error msgs and no abstraction.

Sounds like it didn't build correctly. You should just be able to install the library, load up pd and instantiate the object.
lilakmonoke
andrew ... right, so library is installed and i can instantiate es5encoder~ ... how do i use it? there is no help patch with it, maybe i can do that. six inlets, two outlets, bangs into the inlets = 6 triggers? then connect it to which channel of the es-3?

i need to solder my es5 to my es-3 first before i can test it. my es-3 is first generation i was one of the first to buy one from schneidersladen.

edit: just found your video on the max version. i connect the two outlets to inlets 7/8 of the es-3, correct? ... so i can connect 6 es5 to one es3! trigger madness x 48 will ensue. my fireface 800 has two lightpipe outs so make that 96 ;-) ... thanks for the coding, happy to give you more of my green soon!
os
The six inlets take signals in the range 0-255, corresponding to the ES-5's six channels.

The first inlet controls the ES-5's own 8 outputs.
ym2612
lilakmonoke wrote:
trevor .. i tried to open 208random.pd but it crashes my pd-extended, it goes into some infinite loop. do i need to download all of them first?

also embedded soundcloud tracks stopped working on my browser in muffs so im not sure which track the above is related to. i listened to what i think it is on soundcloud and it sounds good. definitely get an expert sleeper es3 for this it opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

melodies is a tricky thing when generated from logic. most of the time they become emotionally meaningless so for now im keeping it to the bare essentials and stick to the time dimension. i stay with the base harmonic elements like 1,4,5,10,12 and transpositions of that, it always sounds open and modal and you can take it anywhere.

im currently working on a pattern based funk track of which i have the drums structure finished. its called "billy cobham" and is played by a tr-606 which is the perfect funk drum machine. ... http://tindeck.com/listen/afat


Whoops, sorry about that. I'll take a look at it tonight. I have some more abstractions to add to the repo. I spent yesterday trying to finish up an "acid" track that I sequenced in Pd, just using lists of numbers for sequencing bangs/notes. I tried out some in-the-box reverb/delay and percussion synthesis in Pd, too. I'll throw that up tonight, too, though I'm pretty unsatisfied with the result. So far I prefer banging on a button to generate melodies (until they sound good) to anything I've actually composed, and traditional song structure just doesn't sit well with me.

That beat sounds great! Very organic. One of the abstractions I made over the past week plots bangs randomly into a list, with parameters for weighting the bangs onto odd/even beats. It works, but it's nowhere near as interesting as what you've got there.
lilakmonoke
ym2612 wrote:

That beat sounds great! Very organic. One of the abstractions I made over the past week plots bangs randomly into a list, with parameters for weighting the bangs onto odd/even beats. It works, but it's nowhere near as interesting as what you've got there.


thanks! that beat is pure and simple pattern math btw. all i did was take a close look at how funk beats fit in my pattern system. since james brown the most important beat is the first downbeat the ONE so everything points towards that.

its a two bar pattern with two halfs the first one straight and the second one shifted one 8th forward so it ends on the 3and which is the upbeat to the next big ONE. the rest is just playing with euclidian subdivisions (bd: 3:16, sd: 3:16, 5:16, 10:16) and the timing of the changes. add mpc type swing of 55% and its a funk drum loop ... of course a real drummer does a lot more but thats the essence of it.

funky drummer by james brown works like that too btw. so does most of drum and bass / 2-step ... and a lot of hip hop which is slowed down funk. listen to the bd in 2-step, first one straight, second shifted.

http://tindeck.com/listen/afat





and of course ...

lilakmonoke
os wrote:
The six inlets take signals in the range 0-255, corresponding to the ES-5's six channels.

The first inlet controls the ES-5's own 8 outputs.


so i figured, absolutely brilliant! i was wondering how you control 48 gates with 6 inlets. now all i need is a library for converting 48 independent streams of bangs via binary to seperate triggers.
lilakmonoke
noise engineering is coming out with a module that does almonst exactly what i described under the funk post above. 16 patterns plus 4 variations that can be shifted via cv. except my pattern system is based on math and those are fixed. very cool swarm intelligence via parallel thought engineering!

http://www.noiseengineering.us/zularic-repetitor.html



lilakmonoke
another track, this one is funky house. it was an experiment to see if this type of music can be done with my sequencer and it worked out really well.

i made an abstraction called "two alternating patterns" which is a refinement of what i did before, interlocking shifted twin sequences. there is five of them:

- bassdrum + clap form the base grid, they both are in 4/16 and 2/16 but change patterns in 36 and 48 clocks = 3:4.

- snare + conga. they are the alternating parts of the same pattern. this is in 5/13 which means they will do something completely different from the 4/4 beat. thats the percussion part which again is totally without any random factor. i gave them their own slots in the grid and it just sounds like freeform playing

- house chords: these are straight 4/4 looping patterns every 4 bars. 2 bars are on the beat and in the second 2 bars the pattern is shifted one 16th forward. this trick makes the whole track shift the groove constantly.

also there is something called "send accent" which lets me insert any number of beats or breaks into any pattern and create lots of variations. these are set to prime numbers 17 and 41 which means they will loop outside of 16 based patterns.

all is recorded live with samples through the schippmann vcf-02, mixed with the unfiltered signal and eventide time factor delay into the dbx 166xs compressor. all edits and dubs are done live, these are just 5 improvised takes mixed with fades in reaper.

https://soundcloud.com/lilakmonoke/the-night-train-to-finisterra

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/151214690" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

lilakmonoke
im wrapped up with producing some really radical techno but ive found time to get my es5 gate expander to work in pd. this is phantastic because while you are losing one channel of the es3 you gain 8 gates = ie. four rhythmical units with accent. this still leaves you with 7 channels of full control voltage on the es-3so you could also turn this into a seven voice polysynth.

so jason, if you get a es3+es5 you are probably set for a life of sequencing in pd ;-)

ive made a small polyrhythmical patch to demonstrate that it works but this is also interesting in itself. polyrhythms can be very complex and still work even without a definite time signature. here is why:

- there are four "voices" that each do something completely different. the top ones are the simple regular or symmetrical beats, bassdrum and clap. the lower ones are assymmetricial patterns, snare and hihat.

- bd is in 6 clocks and clap in 8 so they form a pattern thats 6x8=48 clocks long. thats 3 bars in 4/4 or 4 bars in 3/3 whichever way you want to look at it.

- the hihat is one step up in complexity. its a pattern in 9x4 clocks so its in quarter notes or beats. it also goes really well with the bassdrum in 6 and is shifted by one clock so its not "touching" any of the other beats. those are the numbers 4/1 to the right of the pattern generator. thats why it works as a lead pattern and holds everything together. in africa those are called "bell patterns".

- the snare is a pattern in 13x4 clocks so it takes a really long time to loop with the others. but its also in quarter notes and shifted by 3 clocks so its also in its own grid space and thats why its not messing everything up.

thats basically the african lesson to me. "real africans" do all this intuitively btw. :

- anything based on multiples of 2 or 3 always goes together easily. thats a lot of numbers to chose from 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 12, 16, 18, 16 etc. ... you can take ANY pattern or number and multiply it with those numbers and it works.

- in order to actually be able to hear complex patterns move them to a slot in the grid thats not occupied by others. down beats in straight patterns usually sit on slot 1 and 3 so that leaves you with slot 2 and 4 for other stuff. thats why 3 or 4 elements is usually enough.

http://tindeck.com/listen/imns

lotri22
great stuff lilakmonoke
I like the way how you see music
did you try Numerology?

http://five12.com/n3.html

it is soo complex for sequencing, and for math/music making
I downloaded the PD today but I have no idea what to do with it smile
lilakmonoke
thanks! yes i know numerology and most of the other sequencers programs. they are all based on a linear timeline and steps which is where the problem starts for me. everything in the universe seems to be a sequence of something and the basis if that is primary math.

so thats why im breaking it down into this lego block system of numbers. of course you could do that too in numerology somehow. any sequencer forces you to think in a certain way and i find it much better to figure everything out myself because then im following my own thing.

it all started with dropping windoze and ableton live and moving to linux and raw hacking btw. that is the the best advice i can give to anybody ... and this pure data tutorial gets you on track quickly. if you figure something out post it here, trevor is around too coding very abstract and excellent stuff.

http://en.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/
lotri22
Speaking of universe, I have an idea...like, making music based on my heartbeat. I mean, take the basic clock of my heart and make sequences with it,play with ratios...I know it was done before, but not with MY heart smile

But I have even crazier idea and you might be interested.
Imagine that you can hold your heart in your palms and it will make a sound on every pulse. The sound will be a note and the pitch/frequency will depends on the date you were born. So basically, you becomes a note generator.

The fun starts, when there is another person near you with his/her own generated note. Now, you can hear a simple (poly)rhythm and most likely a simple melody. I call this a sound of the relationship.
Now imagine this with bigger group of people....or with all humans wink
People and their relationships as a living music. As we were/are created with the higher powers.
I can imagine these beautiful polyrhythms in this...the harmonies/disharmonies between people...
I think this is just the way how to go higher in our evolution....how to see the picture of humanity from higher perspective. How to better understand to each other. Every single human,not good or bad,just a single note..Everything starts with relationships...

There is no lie in math...but many people dont understand the math. If you turn the math into music, I think thats the language everybody can understand,even animals smile

This idea was born in my head 2 years ago and I'm still trying to find the right sensors for the heartbeat. And I think I found them already.
The algorithm for calculating the personal pitch will be challenge, I have some ideas so far...it could be fun to have more options...

I know this is a bit philosophical theme, but I think you can see the organic polyrhytms in this right smile


Thx for the PD guide, I will check that for sure. Will see how much of a programmer left in myself, I used to be good at math 25 years ago smile
lilakmonoke
that sounds all very interesting. it would be interesting to figure out the chords of a group of humans related to each other!

one interesting fact about your heartbeat is that its frequency is fluctuating all the time considerably, without you actually noticing it. its constantly adjusting to anything you do, think, feel. so a steady mathematical beat is about the most unnatural thing and i think thats why its so interesting and fascinating.

on the contrary if your heartbeat is absolutely steady for a while its a sure sign that you are about to die, they found that out with patients in hospitals who are having their vital signs monitored.

so get into it and start figuring it out, it could be the beginning of somomething exciting ...

here is something i did last night, its based on the idea of a planetary system revolving around a central core. thats the closest i can visualize complex mathematical relationships in rhythms.

lets say there is a common grid in 16 units and every instrument is somhow synched to that. the grid is the sun and the instruments are the planets. all the planets revolves around the core on different trajectories represented by primary numbers like 13/11/39/29. those are the pattern changes in the rhythms. so every planet is totally doing his own thing at his speed but they all stick to the core. the only thing in a straight 2bar pattern is the bassdrum, so maybe that is the core.

its all mixed in real time, 808 for drums, chords programmed in pure date pulse waves through the schippmann filter and the bassline is an oberheim sem.

http://tindeck.com/listen/zoku

lotri22
Yes I know that the heartbeat isnt a steady pulse but I can imagine there are ways how to use it and come up with some musical results. It is interesting to be able to hear those adjustments of our pulses to our surroundings/environment. Even the feedback from this excitement will create some kind of shifting tempos/energy levels. I would like to have every beat under control of the sensor realtime without any latency,but for musical results I can use any kind of logic or algorithms,make for example,16 straight beats in current hb tempo,then use realtime hb for reset on beat 17....
I can see how this could work.
On the individual level,this might become the way how to make a bridge between the brain and the heart in human beings. Usually,nobody is thinking about his own heart...and it is basically the engine of our beings.
The artificial heart would be powered from the solar energy,just make the thoughts even deeper wink And yes, humans related to each other would definitely make some interesting chords,rhythms..


Im listening to your solar symphony now and Im wondering how you come up with the ratios for the planet trajectories (13/11/29...)? I am interested in this stuff too.

is midi protocol implemented in PD? I have Vermona Perfourmer synth and Roland TR77 midified drum machine and would like to use this for polyrhitmic techno experiments. And I have Tenori On which I like very much,but it is limited ..I will need to get some midi processor to extend its possibilities
s

thx
lilakmonoke
numbers in rhythms are fairly simple to categorize. first there is the fact that you can divide every number in prime numbers and every prime number in 2s and 3s, those are the low level building blocks of all rhythms. i wrote about this a while ago here.

so any rhythms that are based on 2s go together and those on 3s too. also anything based on multiples of 2s and 3s go together: 2,4,6,8,9,12,16,18, 24, 27, 32 those are the most common ones. thats the african system, 2 over 3 over 4 over 6 ie.

then there is the lower prime numbers which all do something invidually different. 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 23. thats the indian system, they often use additive rhythms that sum up to primary numbers ie. 3232322 = 17

using higher primary numbers basically results in cycles that dont touch each other. ie. one cycle in 89 units and one in 59 will click after 4897 units ... a few of those and it will all synch close to infinity ;-)

so when you look at the numbers in the tracks (left side) you see that most of them run on a grid of 16 or 32, except the snare which freestyles on the prime number 13. ie. the hihat runs on 9/8/3 which means its on a grid of 9 x 8 units (9 half notes) and shifted by 3.

but the patterns cycle in 29/13/89/18/9 (middle numbers) independently. so all the beats will be on the 16-grid but change at different times. thats the planetary system ;-)

as an exercise look at the numbers and guess which instruments it is, its not difficult at all like 18 and 13 sound very different.

yes midi is implemented in pd, like everything else. its also super tight at least on my linux machine. basically you can do anything with it, including graphics, video, external device control etc. your heartbeat groove with sensors should be really easy to do.
lilakmonoke
btw this a fascinating graphical display of prime numbers and the rhythm of the numbers they form. its easy to see that every prime forms its own number system. and its equally mind blowing that virtually all of western music is based on the first 2 primes two and three. thats just 2 out of endless possibilities. its all in wikipedia of course

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_numbers

lilakmonoke
new mix of the above, its beginning to sounds like free funk jazz. i think im going to produce a more elaborate track along those lines just to see how far i can take it.

http://tindeck.com/listen/dsjd

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